If enough people already lost enough houses and those that remain are in bad shape then I don't care how many you convert to fixed rate mortgages because that wont solve the problem of a faltering economy due to mortgage crisis. Adding to it by devaluing the doller will only amplify the effects.
Those who lost their houses also lost their ability to buy on credit.. The wind comes off the economic sails...
Tightening up lending practices AFTER the fact isn't going to help as it will put others out of reach of obtaining more credit until the crisis is over.... Yet more wind coming off the economic sails...
Give the crooks more Fed money and cause the dollar to deflate means... Even more wind comes out of the economic sails...
It gets to the point where people cant buy during the biggest sales month of the year and EVEN MORE wind comes off the economic sails...
When only 17,000 jobs were created in the month of December?.... I dont even think I need to say it.
A couple comments I wanted to make:
1) concernning refinancing of ARM's: there are still countless numbers of them out there that will reset this year and also in 2009, so refinancing those people into fixed rate loans would be a good move. It won't help anything now, but stop further problems from developing when those loans reset. We need to fix what is going on now, but must look ahead as well.
2) you said that those who lost their house have also lost the ability to buy on credit, but the fact is that most of those who got ARM's had poor credit to begin with, that's why they got into the ARM in the first place.
3) tightening lending practices isn't going to fix things at the moment, but it is necessary. You fix the leak then you clean up the mess it made. Again, we need to look ahead if we want things to start changing
So you disagree with my ideas on how to help the economy, that's cool. Like I said, I'm no economist. So what are your ideas on fixing these issues and getting the economy going in the right direction?
“I did not have sexual relations with her.” Bill Clinton.
See a pattern yet ?
Enron was just the tip of the iceberg as far as CEO’s screwing there own people over. They recommended that their people reinvest in their own company.
Here’s another good example of a CEO screwing over people and keeping money for himself.
Ex-Brocade CEO Sentenced to 21 Months
Email this Story
Jan 16, 2:49 PM (ET)
By JORDAN ROBERTSON  (AP) Former Brocade Communications Systems Inc. Chief Executive Gregory Reyes leaves the federal... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The former chief executive of Brocade Communications Systems Inc. (#HYPERLINK "http://money.excite.com/jsp/qt/short.jsp?symbol_search_text=BRCD"BRCD) (#HYPERLINK "http://money.excite.com/jsp/qt/short.jsp?symbol_search_text=BRCD"BRCD) was sentenced Wednesday to 21 months in prison for orchestrating a scheme to tamper with the company's records of stock option grants. Gregory Reyes, Brocade's CEO from 1998 to 2005, was also ordered to pay a $15 million fine.
He is going to get months in jail, just a few months if that.
Keep sticking up for these people who are nothing but thieves.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Originally posted by ditch: A couple comments I wanted to make:
1) concernning refinancing of ARM's: there are still countless numbers of them out there that will reset this year and also in 2009, so refinancing those people into fixed rate loans would be a good move. It won't help anything now, but stop further problems from developing when those loans reset. We need to fix what is going on now, but must look ahead as well.
2) you said that those who lost their house have also lost the ability to buy on credit, but the fact is that most of those who got ARM's had poor credit to begin with, that's why they got into the ARM in the first place.
3) tightening lending practices isn't going to fix things at the moment, but it is necessary. You fix the leak then you clean up the mess it made. Again, we need to look ahead if we want things to start changing So you disagree with my ideas on how to help the economy, that's cool. Like I said, I'm no economist. So what are your ideas on fixing these issues and getting the economy going in the right direction?
1) Sure that might save a few more from losing their homes but that doesn't mitigate the fact that these loans were given in violation of the publics trust since the banks are the final step in approving these loans. The banks SHOULD have given the people who owned those homes "squatters rights" until a solution could be found given the magnitude and scope of this mortgage debacle.
2)Since their "contribution" to the promissory note is now an anchor chain around their necks AND they don't have a house to live in and have an even worse credit problem than they started with, I feel the proper course of action would be to forgive the loan 100% or at the very least set them back where they were prior to the sale of a bad bill of goods. Not all those who took those loans did so becasue they had bad or no credit but because someone said "Trust me" this ARM is a GREAT deal..... right now.
The solution is defiantly not to hand the criminals who were the ultimate cause of this problem more money ESPECIALLY the peoples money.
In order to re kindle the economy and restore vigor faith in the economy as well as the slimy banks, the best solution would be to write off the bad loans on the individual level and not let the banks "write them down" as quarterly profit losses... Thats just insane because the bank writes off the loss but the people still owe the full amount of the loan.
The banks will still hound the people for the money they "paid" for a product that isnt worth the price they people got the loan for. Theres nothing to back it up and about the only recourse available is bankruptcy... automatic 7 year hitch. Thats if they even qualify for chapter 7... I have no doubt the changes in the bankruptcy laws were no accident either. It's an all to convent coincidence.. and who were the primary lobbyist for the changes? Y it was the banks... who else?
If the fed is going to hand out billions in cash it would make sense to give it to the PEOPLE who really need it to clear their debts who will then spend it in the market place, pay off those debts and keep the economic fire alight.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-16-2008).]
U.S. industrial production indicator shows no growth in Dec. 2008-01-17 00:33:01
WASHINGTON, Jan. 16 (Xinhua) -- U.S. industrial production was unchanged in December 2007, the poorest showing since industrial output dropped by 0.5 percent in October, the Federal Reserve reported Wednesday.
Still, industrial production, an indicator of the output of mines, factories and utilities, was 1.5 percent above its year-earlier level last month.
The unchanged output in December came after industrial output had been up by 0.3 percent in November.
Output of utilities fell by 0.2 percent in December, following a flat showing in the previous month.
Mining output, a category that includes oil production, however, increased by 0.1 percent last month. But the growth pace was slower than the 1 percent rate recorded in November.
Output in the manufacturing sector was unchanged in December after an increase of 0.3 percent in November.
Capacity utilization for total industry was 81.4 percent in December, a rate below its year-earlier level of 81.6 but 0.4 percentage points above its 1972-2006 average.
The December rate was down from the 81.6 percent pace in the previous month.
The weak report for industrial production was seen by analysts as evidence that the U.S. economy was slowing at the end of last year, reflecting continued troubles in housing and credit markets.
------------------------------------- Government data released Wednesday is forecast to show consumer prices in December rose at a slower pace than the prior month when high energy costs helped prop up prices.
The Labor Department's Consumer Price Index, the federal government's primary inflation yardstick, is expected to show a 0.2 percent gain from the prior month, according to the consensus estimate of Wall Street economists surveyed by Thomson/IFR. However, economists' latest estimates ranged from 0.1 percent to 0.6 percent increase.
The data will be released at 8:30 a.m. EST.
The CPI measures the average price change in a basket of goods and services that the typical household likely buys monthly, excluding income taxes, stocks, bonds and life insurance. The department collects prices in 87 cities from 50,000 residential units and 23,000 retail and service establishments across the country. Rent data is collected from about 50,000 landlords or tenants.
The index helps the Federal Reserve measure the rate of inflation.
In November, the agency reported a 0.8 percent surge fueled by huge hikes in prices of gasoline, clothing, airline ticket and prescription drugs. November's leap was the largest one-month increase since a 1.2 percent uptick in September 2005 when energy costs rose in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
The November increase followed identical 0.3 percent increases in September and October.
A gallon of unleaded gasoline hit a nationwide average of $3.061 on Tuesday, according to AAA and Oil Price Information Service. A month ago, it was $2.998; the year-ago average was $2.233.
Core CPI, which excludes the volatile energy and food prices, is also expected to increase 0.2 percent in December, according to the Thomson/IFR poll. The core index rose 0.3 percent in November.
On Tuesday, the Labor Department reported its Producer Price Index -- which measures the costs of goods before they reach stores shelves -- fell by 0.1 percent in December from the prior month. The drop in overall prices reflects a 1.9 percent drop in energy and 1.3 percent increase in food costs. Core inflation -- which excludes food and energy prices -- posted a moderate 0.2 percent rise.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-16-2008).]
Originally posted by 84Bill: 1) if they move to fast they will undoubtedly pass something stupid like increase taxes. 2) if they move to slow they will likely prolong the agony.
If they move at all, we are screwed. Let the economy work. You can not manipulate the weather.
Credit crunch hits $3B casino project Developer Bruce Eichner's Cosmopolitan casino project faces foreclosure in Las Vegas
LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Nevada's foreclosure crisis claimed a high-profile victim on Wednesday, as investment bank Deutsche Bank took the first step toward foreclosing on the $3 billion Cosmopolitan Resort & Casino project.
Developer and owner Ian Bruce Eichner said his company, 3700 Associates LLC, was working with Deutsche Bank and Merrill Lynch to find new investors. The construction loan from Deutsche Bank of $760 million went into default Wednesday, the company said.
Originally posted by 84Bill: feel the proper course of action would be to forgive the loan 100% or at the very least set them back where they were prior to the sale of a bad bill of goods. Not all those who took those loans did so becasue they had bad or no credit but because someone said "Trust me" this ARM is a GREAT deal..... right now.
The solution is defiantly not to hand the criminals who were the ultimate cause of this problem more money ESPECIALLY the peoples money.
In order to re kindle the economy and restore vigor faith in the economy as well as the slimy banks, the best solution would be to write off the bad loans on the individual level and not let the banks "write them down" as quarterly profit losses... Thats just insane because the bank writes off the loss but the people still owe the full amount of the loan.
The banks will still hound the people for the money they "paid" for a product that isnt worth the price they people got the loan for. Theres nothing to back it up and about the only recourse available is bankruptcy... automatic 7 year hitch. Thats if they even qualify for chapter 7... I have no doubt the changes in the bankruptcy laws were no accident either. It's an all to convent coincidence.. and who were the primary lobbyist for the changes? Y it was the banks... who else?
If the fed is going to hand out billions in cash it would make sense to give it to the PEOPLE who really need it to clear their debts who will then spend it in the market place, pay off those debts and keep the economic fire alight.
Forgiving the loan won't help. Sure it will get the buyers out of it, but then the banks will own all of those houses. It would be the same thing to the banks as if all were foreclosed on. Sure the banks should suffer from this, but do that and what is happening now in the economy will look like disneyland compared to where it will go. More depressed, bank owned properties is not the answer.
The banks may write down the losses, but they're still on the hook for either the mortgage or the house, whichever they can collect. They still own the contract with the seller and either have to collect the money or get stuck with the house. A write-off is not magically putting all the money they lost back into their pockets.
The FED handing out the $$$ to the people is just as bad as it giving it to the banks. Handing money to people with poor credit is like putting it in a fire. They have a poor credit standing for a reason, and not everyone is a victim. Sure there are some people with good credit who went with ARM's, but the majority of them did not have good credit. The banks used the ARM to tap into the crowd with less than good credit. They did, and they got assraped bigtime. Stock prices plummeted and the shareholders are feeling the hurt.
For those who have already lost their homes, yeah I wouldn't mind seeing them get some help to get their credit back in order sooner. It would do the economy good in the long run. For the millions who still have ARM's, I say we refinance them into fixed rate loans so they are more likely to keep their home. If we don't do that, the trend we're seeing will continue for the next 2+ years.
Just sit back and watch. We will see who was right.
is that all you care about, or are you interrested in contributing something useful?
I'm still waiting on a reply from the following, althought I don't expect I will get one:
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123: What about those who invested their retirement funds in these banks that said yes we are in fine shape and the next day posted 46% losses?
so now it's the banks themselves that said everything is ok, buy our stock? I thought we were hanging the advisors/brokers today?
and who moved their entire retirement portfolio into one of the big banks and lost 46%? any links to that? Only a fool would move their entire retirement fund into a small group of stocks. Enron is a perfect example of why people should be diversified.
Also, most people can and do move their retirement funds around themselves, it's all electronic and very easy to do anymore. So when they move it and lose who do we blame?
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-17-2008).]
Originally posted by ditch: Sure there are some people with good credit who went with ARM's, but the majority of them did not have good credit. The banks used the ARM to tap into the crowd with less than good credit. They did, and they got assraped bigtime.
You just spelled Anti Trust
The banks have the (worth less) product they tried to pawn off onto the masses so they should eat the losses, declare bankruptcy and move to another country. The government should enact laws preventing loan sharking and try to recoup the losses from the criminal institutions and the criminals (CEO's) who came up with the scam should be incarcerated for life.
The banks played a crooked ball game. The give higher interest rates to people who can ill afford a loan and give lower rates to people with fist fulls of cash. Again, thats not risk management, thats stacking the deck against the public... So the banks lose and now the entire U.S. Population has to foot the bill.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-17-2008).]
Did I? Says who? Just how deceptive they were, if at all, is debatable. For my recent house purchase, I like everyone else who gets a mortgage was given a good faith estimate and the attached paperwork. I was able to take it home and READ it so I would understand the terms and conditions. THey actually aren't all that complicated. There are plenty of mortgage calculators online that will help you estimate your monthly payment increase from a corresponding interrest rate increase.
Again, the amount responsibility the banks hold in the ARM issue is debatable. Consumers are not mindless drones. They need to take some of the responsibility in this as well.
The same game is played out in the credit card world, higher interrest rates for those of higher risk. At a glance, I will admit that it doesn't make much sense.
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-17-2008).]
Stanley O'Neal Payback is a ***** In August and September, as his company is racking up the largest quarterly loss in its 93-year history, Merrill Lynch CEO Stanley O'Neal squeezes in 20 rounds of golf, including three rounds on three different courses in a single day. In October, O'Neal announces his "retirement," walking away with a compensation package valued at $161.5 million.
Merrill reports $10 billion loss Nation's largest brokerage also takes $14.6 billion in writedowns on subprime mortgages and hedges gone bad.
EW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Merrill Lynch & Co. reported a quarterly operating loss of more than $10 billion Thursday that was much worse than expected, while it announced an $11.5 billion writedown related to the subprime crisis.
Merrill (MER, Fortune 500) shares lost more than 4 percent in pre-market trading on the news.
For the quarter, Merrill posted a loss from continuing operations of $10.3 billion, or $12.57 a share.
On a net basis, the company reported a loss of $9.91 billion, or $12.01 a share.
In the year-earlier period, Merrill reported a net profit of $2.3 billion, or $2.41 a share.
The results were far worse than anticipated. Merrill was expected to report a loss of $4.57 a share on revenue of $702.1 million, according to analysts polled by earnings tracker Thomson Financial.
Merrill, the nation's largest brokerage, also said it would writedown $11.5 billion on its collateralized debt obligations and subprime residential mortgages. The company also reported a $3.1 billion writedown on hedges with financial guarantors.
Prior to Merrill's announcement, there had been intense speculation that the company could write down as much as $15 billion during the quarter.
For the year, Merrill recorded an operating loss of $8.05 billion or $10.73 a share.
Originally posted by ditch: Just how deceptive they were, if at all, is debatable.
Convince me the banks didn't alter their lending practices to include people with less than stellar credit.
The banks knew what they were doing when they lowered their lending standards, the brokers knew they were selling a loan that was sub standard and they sold them like candy to the public without "clearly" warning them of the dangers of having such a loan & lastly the banks APPROVED them so they had willful knowledge of how many people were going to be affected. It's not like they cant track this, it's not like they didn't know.
The banking "industry" also lobbied for legislation aimed at altering the bankruptcy laws to ensnare those victims they knew were going to fail.
IOW It was a scam designed to "take advantage" of the American people.
They tricked the public into taking ARM knowing full well the deck was stacked in their favor. Judging by the magnitude of the problem and multitude of people affected, I'd have to say the burden of guilt and responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the people who had the final say in the APPROVAL of those loans.
Thats what a scam is, it takes advantage of the "trust" of the victim.
scam /skæm/ Pronunciation noun, verb, scammed, scam·ming. –noun 1. a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle. –verb (used with object) 2. to cheat or defraud with a scam
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-17-2008).]
More wind off the economic sails... How many electricians, plumbers, cabinet makers, sheet rockers, roofers, tile layers, land scapers, designers, refrigerator & furniture manufacturers, are out of work now?
Wholesale inflation hike largest in 26 years Labor Department says soaring energy costs, from gasoline to home heating oil, responsible for 6.3% increase last year
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Wholesale inflation shot up in 2007 by the largest amount in 26 years even though falling gasoline costs allowed price pressures to moderate in December.
The Labor Department reported that wholesale inflation was up 6.3 percent for all of 2007, reflecting a huge increase for the year in various types of energy costs ranging from gasoline to home heating oil.
The year ended on a more positive note, with wholesale prices falling by 0.1 percent in December. That reflected decreasing costs at the time for gasoline and other energy products. It was a significant slowdown after prices had soared by 3.2 percent in November, which had been the biggest one-month increase in 34 years.
Meanwhile, the Commerce Department reported that retail sales fell by 0.4 percent in December. It was a worse-than-expected decline and increased worries that the country could topple into a recession.
The combination of rising inflation pressures and a weak economy represent a dilemma for the Federal Reserve over whether to cut rates to boost economic growth even at the risk of making inflation worse.
But last week, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke sent a strong signal that the Fed is more worried at the moment about weak growth than inflation -- given a series of weaker-than-expected data in recent weeks.
The economy skidded to a virtual standstill in the final three months of last year, raising fears the country could fall into a recession, unable to withstand the multiple blows from a prolonged downturn in housing, a severe credit crisis and soaring energy costs.
Already, unemployment is rising. The jobless rate jumped to 5 percent in December, up from 4.7 percent in November. That was the biggest one-month surge in unemployment since October 2001 in the wake of the 2001 terrorist attacks
It would appear that the banks and big oil have pulled off an act that is similar in scope to the terrorist attacks in 2001.
Homebuilding: Sharpest drop in 27 years Steeper than expected plunge in December ends year that saw home building, permits post declines not seen since past recessions.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Housing starts and building permits plunged in December much more than expected, resulting in a full-year decline in new home construction that was the sharpest drop in 27 years.
And there is little sign things will get better soon. According to government data released Thursday, the full-year total for building permits posted the biggest drop in 33 years. The sharp dropoff in building is one of the reasons that many leading economists are growing increasingly fearful that an economic recession is near, if it hasn't already struck.
The pace of housing starts in December dropped 14 percent to a seasonally-adjusted annual rate of 1.01 million in December, according to the Census Bureau report.
That figure is down from the 1.17 million November reading, which was also revised lower. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com had forecast the annual pace of starts would fall to 1.15 million in the latest reading.
The level of starts in the month was the weakest since May 1991, when the country was just coming out of the 1990-91 recession.
"These figures confirm that the housing recession continues to deepen," said Mike Larson, a real estate analyst for Weiss Research. "Slumping consumer confidence and tighter lending standards have already taken their toll on demand, and the broader economic slowdown we're starting to see unfold now threatens to make a bad situation worse."
For the year, housing starts fell 25 percent to 1.35 million. That decline represents the biggest drop since the recession year of 1980 and the third largest drop since the Census Bureau started tracking this activity in 1959.
Building permits, which are often taken as a measure of builders' confidence in the market, fell 8 percent to an annual rate of 1.07 million from 1.16 million in November. Economists had forecast permits would fall to 1.14 million in the latest reading.
Permits were at the lowest level since March 1993 in the month. For the year permits plunged 25 percent, which was the biggest drop in that measure since the 1974 recession year. It was also the second largest decline on record.
Builders are slamming the brakes on production, because the glut of completed new homes on the market is eating into housing prices and company earnings. A separate Census Bureau reading reported a record 193,000 completed new homes on the market for sale at the end of November, and that builders were typically facing a 6.2 month wait to sell homes after they are completed.
"The only potentially good news [in the report] is the continued decline will help to alleviate bulging inventories," said Adam York, an economic analyst with Wachovia.
The report also comes the day after a survey by the National Association of Home Builders found that confidence in the sector only slightly above record lows, with three out of four builders saying the level of buyer traffic was either low or very low, more than two-thirds saying the current market conditions were poor, and just over half expecting the market to still be poor in six months.
That weakness has also hammered at the results of the nation's largest builders. A week ago KB Home (KBH, Fortune 500), the nation's No. 5 builder by revenue, reported a fiscal fourth quarter loss that was nearly 10 times worse than forecasts, as CEO Jeff Mezger told investors during a conference call that "As we enter 2008, we see no indication markets are stabilizing."
Lennar (LEN, Fortune 500), the nation's No. 1 home builder, is forecast to report a large increase in fiscal fourth quarter losses when it releases results Jan. 24. Those losses are forecast to continue throughout this fiscal year as well. Analysts are looking for No. 6 builder Hovnanian Enterprises (HOV, Fortune 500) to post losses in both fiscal 2008 and 2009.
Analysts are also forecasting that No. 2 Centex (CTX, Fortune 500), No. 3 D.R. Horton (DHI, Fortune 500) and No. 4 Pulte Homes (PHM, Fortune 500) are going to report continuing losses until at least their final quarters of this calendar year.
The builder with the forecast of the quickest return to profits is luxury home builder Toll Brothers (TOL, Fortune 500), seen as posting a narrow gain in the quarter ending in July. It posted its first loss as a public company in its most recent period, which ended in Octobe
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The trust bank runs funds for companies and wealthy individuals rather than mass-market retail banking. It has not been exposed to the consumer problems other banks have, but was at risk for mortgage defaults through products called collateralized debt obligations, or CDOs. The bank's exposure to those pools of mortgage-backed debt resulted in a $118 million write-down in the latest quarter.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-17-2008).]
Creditors approve Delphi's bankruptcy plan The auto parts supplier says it is seeking a federal judge's approval of the plan.
TROY, Mich. (AP) -- Auto parts supplier Delphi Corp. said Thursday it has won approval from creditors for its plan to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
The company is seeking a federal judge's approval of the plan in a two-day hearing in New York scheduled to begin Thursday.
Delphi says 81 percent of about 4,000 eligible creditors who voted on the plan have endorsed it.
In a bankruptcy court filing, the company says it expects to have a $6.1 billion exit loan in place by early next month.
General Motors Corp (GM, Fortune 500). spun off its parts-making operations as Delphi in 1999. The company has about 3,500 hourly workers in Ohio at eight plants in the Dayton area, Columbus, Warren and Sandusky.
Blame it all on the unions.
Stocks slump anew Wall Street continues its recent selloff as investors mull Fed Chair's comments, Merrill's big loss, weak housing report and big drop in Philly Fed.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks tumbled Thursday morning as investors mulled Fed chairman Ben Bernanke's support of a government stimulus plan, Merrill Lynch's big quarterly loss and more troubles for the housing and manufacturing sector.
The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) lost 0.9 percent over an hour into the session, while the broader S&P 500 (INX) index lost 1 percent. The Nasdaq composite fell 0.7 percent.
Stocks tumbled Wednesday on Intel (INTC, Fortune 500)'s earnings and outlook, extending the 2008 selloff that has seen the Dow and S&P 500 both lose more than 6 percent and the Nasdaq lose nearly 10 percent.
The steep selloff so far this year has reflected fears that the economy is headed for a recession or is in one already, in the wake of the housing and credit market crises.
Bernanke, testifying before the House Budget Committee, said that the government should act quickly to put together a fiscal stimulus plan to help consumers amid rising recession fears. He said it needs to be temporary and put into effect in the next 12 months, to avoid the risk of juicing the economy too much beyond the short term and not cause a big jump in the budget deficit.
The Fed chairman also said the economic outlook has worsened.
Traders are betting that the Fed will cut the fed funds rate, a key short-term interest rate that effects consumer loans, by at least a half-percentage point, at its next policy meeting that ends Jan. 30.
In corporate news, Merrill Lynch (MER, Fortune 500) reported a nearly $10 billion quarterly loss and said it took an $11.5 billion writedown during the quarter related to bad mortgage bets. (Full story)
Merrill shares tumbled 5 percent and dragged on the broader bank sector.
However, declines were broad based, with 22 out of 30 Dow stocks tumbling.
On the economic front, December housing starts and building permits slumped by a bigger-than-expected margin, yielding the sharpest full-year drop in new home construction in 27 years. (Full story)
The Philadelphia Fed index, a regional manufacturing read, tumbled to a reading of -20.9, versus forecasts for a small drop to -1.5. Any number below zero indicates contraction in the sector.
Separately, weekly jobless claims fell more than expected last week, the government said, helping to cool some worries about a big slowdown in the labor market sparked by the December monthly jobs report.
Treasury prices rose, lowering the yield on the 10-year note to 3.66 percent from 3.73 percent late Wednesday. Treasury prices and yields move in opposite directions.
In currency trading, the dollar fell versus the yen and euro.
U.S. light crude oil for February delivery rose 51 cents to $91.35 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
COMEX gold for February delivery rose $7 to $889 an ounce
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Lawsuit claims the lender insisted she offer rosier housing outlook so risky mortgages could get approved. From Money Magazine's Stephen Gandel
NEW YORK (Money) -- A former real estate appraiser for Washington Mutual is suing the bank, claiming she was blacklisted last year for providing a housing market forecast that was too gloomy.
"Consumers are not mindless drones." you called that right...
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-17-2008).]
Looks like the Capitan of the good ship USS Economy is asking for a tea cup... Havent had a good cup of tea in two weeks... Anyone have some, maybe a buck to go get some? How much is tea these days anyway?
Bernanke: Juice the economy 'quickly' Fed chairman, urging lawmakers to boost consumer spending within 12 months, tags mortgage meltdown's cost at $100 billion or more.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told Congress Thursday that legislators should enact a fiscal stimulus package in order to help beleaguered consumers as recession fears grow.
Bernanke testified at a hearing before the House Budget Committee. His comments come as more economists and politicians are expressing concerns about the state of the economy, which has begun to weaken due to the subprime mortgage meltdown.
"To be useful, a fiscal stimulus package should be implemented quickly and structured so that its effects on aggregate spending are felt as much as possible within the next twelve months or so," Bernanke said in his prepared remarks.
12 months.. whats the rush?
Hell... make it 24.
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Foreclosure rate sets new high The Mortgage Bankers Association reported 384,000 new actions in the third quarter, while modified mortgages for the period topped 235,000.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- There were a record-breaking 384,000 foreclosures in the third quarter of last year, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, as the housing slump continued.
The mortgage industry association also reported that it initiated more than 235,000 loan modifications in the third quarter of 2007.
Approximately 54,000 of these loans have been successfully adjusted, and nearly half of these modifications - 103,000 - were for subprime adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs).
"The mortgage industry took major steps during the third quarter to help those borrowers who could be helped," said Jay Brinkmann, MBA's Vice President of Research.
Hell... make it 24.
DJIA 6 Mo chart
Looks like a "G" meter reading from an old wooden roller coaster.
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Our stock markets are likewise taking a **** kicking. Tuesday we had a 380 point drop, followed by another 205 yesterday, and a further 179 so far today. But, as the realtors around town keep telling us, the future is ROSY! Get in and buy now before its too late!
Our stock markets are likewise taking a **** kicking. Tuesday we had a 380 point drop, followed by another 205 yesterday, and a further 179 so far today. But, as the realtors around town keep telling us, the future is ROSY! Get in and buy now before its too late!
I've been watching that too.
What cough my attention is the value of the dollar is rising.
I started to poke around and saw that the metals were down, bonds are relatively steady but then I saw most all the world markets were hitting the skids... VIOLA!
Our stock markets are likewise taking a **** kicking. Tuesday we had a 380 point drop, followed by another 205 yesterday, and a further 179 so far today. But, as the realtors around town keep telling us, the future is ROSY! Get in and buy now before its too late!
Now's the time to start looking for bargains. Foreclosures and distressed sales. Some people will think that's taking advantage of other's bad fortune, but if you do it right, you can help people and yourself at the same time. If someone is in or about to go into foreclosure, and you buy their house at a reasonable price, you not only get a good deal on your real estate, but you help them salavage their credit so they can buy something cheaper.
It really can be a win-win IF you try. Once the foreclosure is done, sure you can pick up some cheap properties and save money. Nothing wrong with that, but if you catch them before foreclosure is completed, you can help someone else out at the same time.
The only downside is if someone overpaid and owes more than their property is worth. But it's still better for them to sell for a loss than lose the house by default.
Be very CAREFUL if you are going to invest in anything right now. Do NOT let anyone talk you into making an investment by the used of words excellent, great timing, guaranteed, now is the time, you can take advantage of, etc. until you are fully satisfied and willing to accept the losses should those "hope words" not pan out.
The "markets" Stocks, Bonds, Housing, Commodities are DESPERATE to sell or have you "invest" anything. I'd be very leery about jumping into anything while this mortgage sh!t storm is blowing at full gale .
Originally posted by 84Bill: Be very CAREFUL if you are going to invest in anything right now. Do NOT let anyone talk you into making an investment by the used of words excellent, great timing, guaranteed, now is the time, you can take advantage of, etc. until you are fully satisfied and willing to accept the losses should those "hope words" not pan out.
The "markets" Stocks, Bonds, Housing, Commodities are DESPERATE to sell or have you "invest" anything. I'd be very leery about jumping into anything while this mortgage sh!t storm is blowing at full gale .
but, right now, as the dollar drops - foreign investments are niiice.
and, if you have a box which you kept your canadien cash in - now is the time - convert to us funds. I know this dont apply to many folk - but here in Detroit - Windsor is a fun place to go - where many things which are illegal in the USA are just fine. so, many folk here end up with the occasional pocketful of colorful canadien cash.
but, right now, as the dollar drops - foreign investments are niiice.
and, if you have a box which you kept your canadien cash in - now is the time - convert to us funds. I know this dont apply to many folk - but here in Detroit - Windsor is a fun place to go - where many things which are illegal in the USA are just fine. so, many folk here end up with the occasional pocketful of colorful canadien cash.
Now's the time to start looking for bargains. Foreclosures and distressed sales. Some people will think that's taking advantage of other's bad fortune, but if you do it right, you can help people and yourself at the same time. If someone is in or about to go into foreclosure, and you buy their house at a reasonable price, you not only get a good deal on your real estate, but you help them salavage their credit so they can buy something cheaper.
It really can be a win-win IF you try. Once the foreclosure is done, sure you can pick up some cheap properties and save money. Nothing wrong with that, but if you catch them before foreclosure is completed, you can help someone else out at the same time.
The only downside is if someone overpaid and owes more than their property is worth. But it's still better for them to sell for a loss than lose the house by default.
I'm still going to wait a bit longer and hope that housing prices correct somewhat. Right now, they are still climbing, having already risen 86% over the last year. To be quite honest, I do feel some pity for those who got in over their heads and ended up taking out way too much of mortgage then they could afford. There is an incredible amount of pressure telling people to ginore what is happening down in the states, that it is just a bump in the road, and that the more "robust resource rich" Canadian economy will never suffer from such ills. They say prices will continue to grow at record rates, and the various lenders, Canada Mortgage and Housing included, are becoming very aggressive in their campaign to keep this real estate boom continuing. The thing is, thats exactly what it is, a real estate boom. Wages haven't increased, rather they have decreased over the years, homeless levels are at an all time high, but all the god damn politicians, lenders, realtors, and everyone else benfiting from this rapid housing price increase are touting this as the be all and end all economic boom we have been looking for.
In the perfect world, when the **** hits the fan, and I feel it will, I hope it is these same people; realtors, lenders, and speculative buyers / flippers that fueled this crisis, are the ones suffer the worst economic hardship.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 01-17-2008).]
Lehman Brothers to shrink mortgage business The investment bank will take a $40 million charge as it shortens its home mortgage-lending arm and lays off about 1,300 people.
NEW YORK (AP) -- Lehman Brothers Holdings, the nation's fourth-largest investment bank, on Thursday said it will "substantially" reduce its U.S. residential-mortgage lending business and cut 1,300 jobs.
The investment house said the move will mostly affect its Aurora Loan Services business, which acts as its primary mortgage unit. Lehman will take a $40 million charge as part of the plan.
Lehman has already cut about 2,500 jobs after sustaining massive losses amid the collapse of the subprime mortgage market. Aurora will still continue providing mortgage loans to consumers, and servicing them.
Originally posted by 84Bill: Convince me the banks didn't alter their lending practices to include people with less than stellar credit.
convince me they violated anti trust laws in doing so. Altering your practices isn't necessarily illegal. If you alter them to a practice that is illegal then yeah.
again, did they violate anti trust laws? I don't see the wave of lawsuits against them on that one....hmmm, wonder why If they actually did then everyone in a crappy mortgage would have a case against their bank to have the contract dissolved. Don't see that one happening, hmmm
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 01-17-2008).]
Lawsuit claims the lender insisted she offer rosier housing outlook so risky mortgages could get approved. From Money Magazine's Stephen Gandel
NEW YORK (Money) -- A former real estate appraiser for Washington Mutual is suing the bank, claiming she was blacklisted last year for providing a housing market forecast that was too gloomy.
Lawsuit claims the lender insisted she offer rosier housing outlook so risky mortgages could get approved. From Money Magazine's Stephen Gandel
NEW YORK (Money) -- A former real estate appraiser for Washington Mutual is suing the bank, claiming she was blacklisted last year for providing a housing market forecast that was too gloomy.
"Consumers are not mindless drones." you called that right...
Difference between you and me is that I'm not going to let one or a few stories convince me that all the banks out there are crooks.
