Originally posted by aceman: My opinion is that the economy is doing just fine. Low unemployment and inflation. Good interest rates for a mortgage. Housing market sucks, but there's a bigtime correction going on in the market. My stocks are doing well. What's not to like about the economy?
To
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Originally posted by aceman: My viewpoint is that it is "In Trouble" but not yet a "Going down the toilet"
From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) go down the toilet. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) continue to show stagnant GROWTH. From being in trouble it MAY (catch word) rebound and have good growth.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Like I said.........You can go from "In Trouble" to doing great, staying the same(fine) to down the tubes.
"In Trouble" doesn't equal the economy is bad.
I'm in trouble financially if I don't get this bill paid and this bill paid and do overtime this week. Doesn't mean that I'm going down the tubes financially. I'm still FINE, unless I don't do some of the things listed above.
I still fee that the economy is still just fine. The economy is not the housing market (Where we are in trouble), but there's a link between the two. The economy is not just a snapshot of the pastday or week or month to say it is not doing fine. In the past year there are some troubling issues, but, the economy over all is still in the black and thus is doing just fine.
[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 01-07-2008).]
Paulson: No simple solution to housing crisis The Treasury secretary says resetting subprime mortgages poses risk of 'market failure,' and that's why administration coordinated a rate freeze plan.
Bahhh thats impossible!!!!! Housing is only a fraction of the economy and it cont, couldnt, would never cause the market to FAIL.
Besides that eveyone knows I dont know anything about the economy so the Treasurey Secertary of the United States myst be full of bullshit.. uhh I mean blisshit.. yeah yeah, thats it bullisshit.. Traaa la laaa la laaa what a lovely day.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-07-2008).]
Originally posted by Pyrthian: Wow - thats surprising - I was under the impression you were more confident in the economy than I was. Here in Detroit - yes - In Trouble. and maybe even dropping pants for the toilet.....not yet in, or going down tho
No no.. he knows and if you dont know that he knows you know what he knows he will be the first to let you know you that he knows you are dead wrong and make VERY sure to let everyone know how stupid you are for not knowing what he knows.
Got it?
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-07-2008).]
Originally posted by 84Bill: No no.. he knows and if you dont know that he knows you know what he knows he will be the first to let you know you that he knows ............you are dead wrong and make VERY sure to let everyone know how stupid you are for not knowing what he knows.
Got it?
lol - reminds me of the movie Dodgeball ..... I know you know I know, but you didnt know I knew you know I know..... makes me giggle everytime....
By preventing avoidable foreclosures, we will safeguard neighborhoods and communities and fulfill our responsibility of protecting the broader U.S. economy," Paulson said in excerpts of his speech released by Treasury. "However, let me be clear: there is no single or simple solution that will undo the excesses of the last few years."
Hmmm excesses. Like people buying homes they couldn't afford. Now they get bailed out.
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Paulson said that the deal the administration brokered with the industry to freeze certain subprime mortgage rates for five years did not involve the use of any taxpayer money. Conservative critics have complained that the administration's plan represented government intrusion in the operation of markets that would end up rewarding some people who had taken out risky mortgages.
Bail outs for those who bought homes they couldn't afford.
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The steep slump in housing has been a serious drag on the overall economy. There are rising fears that the country could topple into a recession. Those worries were heightened after a report Friday showing that the unemployment rate jumped to a two-year high of 5 percent in December with job growth slowing to a crawl.
Paulson called the current housing correction inevitable after what occurred during the five-year boom in which sales and prices climbed to record levels.
"After years of unsustainable price appreciation and lax lending practices, a housing correction is inevitable and necessary," Paulson said. To top of page
Look at that a correction. I love the fear mongering in the report though. That unemployment rate jumped? Nice use of words there. What was the rate before that. 4? 4.5%?Nope 4.7% Is .3 of a % really a jump? Job growth slowed to a crawl? Did it really? Is 18k new jobs added in one month ( a relatively low employment month) really a crawl? No it isn't. Did a 5% unemployment rate during Clinton spell the end of the economy?
And bill that market failure would have been only the housing market. You know the one with all the people who bought homes they couldn't afford.
Doom and gloom! Scare mongering. Scary. I wonder what else he said in his speach. I bet there was more that CNN left out so they could keep up the doom and gloom.
Some things like: 18k new jobs
5% unemployment. Thats still low
Economic Growth: Real GDP growth was 4.9 percent in the third quarter of 2007, supported by strong gains in business investment and exports. (Last updated: December 20, 2007)
Business Investment: Business spending on commercial structures and equipment rose solidly in the third quarter. Healthy corporate balance sheets bode well for continued investment growth. (Last updated: December 20,2007)
Exports: Strong global growth is boosting U.S. exports, which grew by 10.3 percent over the past 4 quarters. (Last updated: December 20, 2007)
Inflation: Core inflation remains contained. The consumer price index excluding food and energy rose 2.3 percent over the 12 months ending in October. (Last updated: December 14, 2007)
Tax Revenues: Tax receipts rose 6.7 percent in fiscal year 2007 (FY07) on top of FY06's 11.8 percent increase. As a share of GDP, FY07 receipts exceeded their 40-year average. (Last updated: October 12, 2007)
Real after-tax income per person increased 2.1 percent over the past 12 months (ending in November). (Last updated: December 21, 2007)
We are on track to make significant further progress on the deficit. The FY07 budget deficit was down to 1.2 percent of GDP, from 1.9 percent in FY06. Much of the improvement in the deficit reflects strong revenue growth, which in turn reflects the continued strength of the U.S. economy. Looking ahead, higher spending on entitlement programs dominates the future fiscal situation; we must squarely face up to the challenge of reforming these programs.
Look at all that good news that CNN left out so they could cram the doom and gloom.
Why would CNN do that?
[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 01-07-2008).]
Well I don't know about the rest of the country but a lot of service contractors are hurting very badly. A combination of it being winter and people worried about the housing market has brought luxury jobs to a halt. Really no one is pouring concrete or remodeling their bathroom. The hardware stores are practically vacant. The Dodge dealer here just closed its doors until next year or maybe forever more likely. Landscape materials sales have hit record lows but hydroponics sales are up.
Still all the restaurant's are seeing business and when we went to the movies it was packed. I don't see people driving any less even with the gas prices as high as they are. The economy seems to be hitting certain people and others it doesn't even touch. I am used to a booming economy regardless of the rest of the country is doing so this is really all new to me. I have friends that are not working and call me looking for jobs at least four times a week. As I have a steady income to pay my bills I have been giving any little jobs I have away to them but it is almost nothing. Honestly I wouldn't give them up if they were worth a damn. They are not worth my time.
The family company employees are working only because we don't want them to go broke. We find work for them even though it isn't stuff that makes the company any money. Some of our employees get their housing through the company's real estate assets and even that we are allowing them to work the rent off and the rest we will either forgive or have them pay back over the summer.
It is a strange time indeed but I still don't see anything as bad as the the great depression here. Banks are not consuming entire towns and surrounding lands into foreclosure. There are no thousand man lines for soup. Mass migrations looking for work have not materialized. The crime rate has not skyrocketed.
I wouldn't say the economy is bad just yet but I will say it is getting vulnerable and weakening. I think this is just an economy correction and one of many to come. The normal bad dips will be deeper and the ups won't reach so high as the cycle continues. No matter how the economy is doing there are way to make money and profit. Those ways just are not available to everyone and most wouldn't do anything even it was available.
Well I don't know about the rest of the country but a lot of service contractors are hurting very badly. A combination of it being winter and people worried about the housing market has brought luxury jobs to a halt. ......
yup - kinda like the "food chain" part of what many people seem to forget, is you need people to buy stuff for the economy to work properly.
Doom and gloom! Scare mongering. Scary. I wonder what else he said in his speach. I bet there was more that CNN left out so they could keep up the doom and gloom.
Some things like: 18k new jobs
5% unemployment. Thats still low
Economic Growth: Real GDP growth was 4.9 percent in the third quarter of 2007, supported by strong gains in business investment and exports. (Last updated: December 20, 2007)
Business Investment: Business spending on commercial structures and equipment rose solidly in the third quarter. Healthy corporate balance sheets bode well for continued investment growth. (Last updated: December 20,2007)
Exports: Strong global growth is boosting U.S. exports, which grew by 10.3 percent over the past 4 quarters. (Last updated: December 20, 2007)
Inflation: Core inflation remains contained. The consumer price index excluding food and energy rose 2.3 percent over the 12 months ending in October. (Last updated: December 14, 2007)
Tax Revenues: Tax receipts rose 6.7 percent in fiscal year 2007 (FY07) on top of FY06's 11.8 percent increase. As a share of GDP, FY07 receipts exceeded their 40-year average. (Last updated: October 12, 2007)
Real after-tax income per person increased 2.1 percent over the past 12 months (ending in November). (Last updated: December 21, 2007)
We are on track to make significant further progress on the deficit. The FY07 budget deficit was down to 1.2 percent of GDP, from 1.9 percent in FY06. Much of the improvement in the deficit reflects strong revenue growth, which in turn reflects the continued strength of the U.S. economy. Looking ahead, higher spending on entitlement programs dominates the future fiscal situation; we must squarely face up to the challenge of reforming these programs.
Look at all that good news that CNN left out so they could cram the doom and gloom.
Originally posted by Pyrthian: lol - reminds me of the movie Dodgeball ..... I know you know I know, but you didnt know I knew you know I know..... makes me giggle everytime....
LOL Yeah, it's a kind of top secret members only handshake that requires a special patented privilege... well you know.
Fed to lend $60 billion to ease credit crunch 1:12pm: The central bank says it will offer $30 billion at each of its next two scheduled auctions. Other auctions will be held if necessary. Investor alert: More cuts coming Jan 2: Ben Bernanke and other Fed members say 'substantial easing' may be needed, gleaned from the December meeting minutes release. (more) Another $20B auctioned Dec 21: Federal Reserve, in round 2 of new effort to help banks, says it received bids for $58 billion and pledges more. (more)
Lets see.. Give away money... 30 billion.. no wait.. make that 60 billion Cut income... Good idea... Give away money... 59 billion... or was that 20 billion? Bahhh who cares? It not our money anyway... Right? Cut income... 1/4 percent last meeting.. Cool cool, I'm down with that. Cut income prior to that as well.. Bahhh... Doesn't matter how much does it? I mean it was just a fraction of a percent. Who cares ahahah ha.
Okay. I cant see anything wrong with this idea at all.
DALLAS (AP) -- More than 86,000 mortgage jobs were cut in 2007 because of the weakening real estate market, according to a new report released Monday by MortgageDaily.com.
Countrywide Financial Corp., (CFC, Fortune 500) the nation's largest lender, shed the most staff in 2007. Net job losses at the Calabasas, Calif.-based lender totaled 11,665, or about 14 percent of all mortgage jobs lost during the year.
The numbers would have been worse, if not for JPMorgan Chase & Co. adding 4,465 mortgage jobs in 2007.
Something I think no one has mentioned about the stock markets ups and downs.
Stock brokers make money on the trades that they make and recommend their customers make. Whether or not the trade makes money.
So in turn they are constantly recommending that their customers buy, buy, buy,…..sell, sell, sell, ….. Buy, buy, buy.
These guys have been a leading part of the stock markets ups, and downs. The more trades they make, the more money they make, the brokers.
They don’t care if you make money or not. So long as they do.
And also the housing market has a trickle down affect on the rest of the economy because of the shear size of it. It affects us all in one way or another.
Ace hasn’t sold his home yet, why? Because of the housing markets losses. No one is buying for fear of what they buy may go down even further after they buy. Sure there are great deals out there in comparison to what the prices were just a year or 2 ago. But who is to say that these prices will not go down even further.
This thread has been going on for, what 6 months someone said earlier, and the housing market has been going down all this time, still is going down and continues to go down.
So who’s to say just how far the housing market will go down? And bring the economy with it.
Homes are most peoples biggest investment, granted long term for most, but we no longer keep our home from purchase to death like our parent did.
I have owned several homes in my lifetime as have most others here. Moved because of jobs, family, trying to get a bigger better home. Whatever the reason.
KB Home Posts Wider 4Q Loss 
Tuesday January 8, 9:29 AM EST
LOS ANGELES (AP) — KB Home, one of the nation's largest homebuilders, said Tuesday its fiscal fourth-quarter loss swelled as ongoing housing market woes led to fewer home sales and lower revenue, prompting the company to book charges to write down unsold inventory and for a tax allowance. Chief Executive Jeffrey Mezger warned that 2008 "will be another tough year for the homebuilding industry." KB Home shares fell more than 2 percent in premarket trading. For the quarter ended Nov. 30, the company posted a loss of $772.7 million, or $9.99 per share, compared with a loss of $49.6 million, or 64 cents per share, in the year-ago period. The Los Angeles-based builder took a pretax charge of $403.4 million to write down the value of unsold inventory and book losses from joint ventures. The company also booked a $514.2 million tax valuation allowance that it can use to offset future profits. Excluding the tax allowance, its loss was $399 million compared with $171.1 million last year.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Something I think no one has mentioned about the stock markets ups and downs.
Stock brokers make money on the trades that they make and recommend their customers make. Whether or not the trade makes money.
So in turn they are constantly recommending that their customers buy, buy, buy,…..sell, sell, sell, ….. Buy, buy, buy.
You cant reveal the secrets of the club if you aren't a member of it. If you do you will be called among other things a bitter envious socialist sympathizer who is jealous of another's monie.
I happen to know you aren't any of that. The truth has set you free and the secret club doesnt like people who are free.. and very smart.
fear not - the housing crunch CANNOT last. basic rule of population ensures this. and, if we are smart (lol - right) this is a fine oppurtunity to establish laws to squelch urban sprawl, while it is halted anyways.
urban sprawl is a HUGE burden on infrastructure & energy use.
Ace has not sold his house because Ace's house is not on the market at this time. Winter is a poor time to try to sell a house in any market so I'm spending the next few months piddling around in the basement and other rooms updating them a bit.
When I do sell, I'm listing at about $185,000. This is about $50,000 less than the highest priced comprable house in the area and about $5,000 less than the lowest comprable house on the market in the area.
My house is Tax/Market Valued at $235,000. I'm realistic. I bought 9 years ago at $105,000 and If I sell for $175,000, I'll walk away with a tidy profit.
Houses shouldn't double in 7 years. They were around here. I'm selling at a very reasonable price.
People are listing their homes at unreasonable prices and not selling them. Why list at this price???? They bought it 2-4 years ago at an unreasonable price and can't list any lower without getting burned for their mistake. They should have been renting 2-4 years ago and this housing market correction would have been sooner and "easier"
Home sales sink, outlook darkens Realtors now see biggest drop in home values starting this year; forecast for price rebound pushed back to '09.
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Originally posted by Mr. Space: My house is Tax/Market Valued at $235,000. I'm realistic. I bought 9 years ago at $105,000 and If I sell for $175,000, I'll walk away with a tidy profit.
I hope and pray that you get exactly what you deserve. I know how very hard you worked for it and it would be such a shame to see you suffer with the burdens for too long... Gosh... Please let us know if we can offer up some sympathy should anything terrible happen.
How they got housing wrong Experts thought 2007 would bring a real estate recovery - not the worst collapse on record. What does that say about forecasts of a turnaround next year? EMAIL | PRINT | DIGG | RSS Subscribe to Economy  feed://rss.cnn.com/rss/money_news_economy.rss Paste this link into your favorite RSS desktop reader See all CNNMoney.com RSS FEEDS (close) By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer December 28 2007: 11:09 AM EST  Housing forecasts proved too optimistic in 2007, and the experts making predictions of a turnaround in 2008 say those estimates are more difficult than ever this time around.
 Current Mortgage Rates
Type Overall avgs 
30 yr fixed mtg 5.56% 15 yr fixed mtg 5.08% 30 yr fixed jumbo mtg 6.57% 5/1 ARM 5.33% 5/1 jumbo ARM 5.83%  Top of Form 1 & Find personalized rates:  Bottom of Form 1
<!-- #qForLinks ul {margin-left:0;padding-left:1em;text-indent:-.7em;} /* Stlye for Safari */ #qForLinks ul {margin-left:0;padding-left:1em;text-indent:-1.4em;#} /* style for IE */ html>body #qForLinks ul {margin-left:0;padding-left:1.2em;text-indent:-1em;#} /* Style for FF */ --> Special Reportfull coverage  Bush on housing: Congress should do more Manhattan home prices: Still crazy How they got housing wrong Home prices post record decline
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Before you put much hope in forecasts for a 2008 rebound in the battered housing market, consider this: A year ago at this time many top economists were looking for that recovery to begin in 2007. Instead, the year saw historic declines in nearly every measure of housing strength and home building, and left a trail of predictions from some of the nation's top economists that look - at best - foolish.
Mr Bitter, We don't have time, nor do we care to beat our heads against a wall trying to explain why there is a need for Realtors and Stock Brokers. We've tried before and your concrete for brains can't grasp the concept.
Originally posted by Mr. Lost in himself: Oh look Bill! That article is just showing the market correction. I'm already 20% below market value and will still make a tidy profit.
So you are saying you sold your house? You haven't made your very much deserved profit yet so that is a lie. There is none until you sell.
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Sucks for those people that bought their houses at an over-inflated price and need to sell now.
Yes, it is a terrible thing to see people lose their dreams after working so hard. They hung on as long as they could... Mr. Space, they call owning a home "The American Dream" and it is not nice to see anyones dreams turned to nightmares. Now I know you wouldn't want that to happen to you now would you... Mr. Space? I'm sure you will express your compassion for those who have lost more clearly from here on, it's not required of you to do so... Mr. Space.
All in all I am very delighted to see you are holding on to your dream with such a firm grip. It would be such a shame to see you lose what you have worked so hard at and for. I can say with the purest conviction that you deserve so much more than you will ultimately get, I really mean that with the utmost sincerity.. Mr. Space. I / We will be watching you intently... Mr. Space. I / We want to see you get what you truly deserve... Mr. Space
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Those drugs you take really mess with your ability to understand and comprehend things, don't they.
Depends on what drug you are taking Mr. Space. Whatever it is I can assure you I'm not lost in "space" by stating facts that haven't even been brought to fruition... yet.
When you make that well deserved and well earned "profit" then by all means let Facts be submitted to a candid world... Mr. Lost in Space.
I'm pulling for you... Mr. Space. Can you sense the direction yet?
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 01-08-2008).]
The real estate market needs a correction, plain and simple. Any action to try and prolong the inevitable is only going to make things worse. As a first time home buyer, I am shocked by the startling jump in housing prices, and it never ceases to amaze me seeing the same property being "flipped" from buyer to buyer without so much of a can of paint. As mentioned before, since 06 we have had an 86% rise in housing costs, and they are now predicting anywhere from another 25% - 30% in 2008. The greedy assholes who were fortunate to own before the housing prices spiked see this as a sign that our economy is flourishing and seem to show little care as to how the "boom" has created mass housing shortages and a similarly huge increase in the number of homeless. They and outside speculative investors have scrambled to re-invest their new found equity , their frenzied actions causing a unheard of price spikes and bidding wars as they struggle to expand their wealth by buying up all the available properties. In the meantime, recent census information show that average salaries have taken a huge hit since 2001, and the prospect of home ownership has now become almost unachievable for some families. The realtor's and the Canada Housing and Mortgage Corporation (The main housing lender in Canada) are telling us first time home buyers otherwise, however. They say that the market still has many more years of sharp market increases over the coming years, and that should a person wait on the sidelines for prices to come down they are only going to fall further behind so BUY BUY BUY.
CMHC is now supposed to be increasing the allowable % of your income that is taken by your mortgage payments as they are trying to say that a house is a good investment, and argue that if a person has a house they can probably change the formulae as a person could scale back their RRSP or other retirement savings plans to help make a mortgage more affordable. Can you say putting all your eggs in one basket? Why would they think about doing something so insane when we have the benefit of watching the current crisis unfold in the United States? Greed. Plain and simple greed. They want people to get in over their heads and borrow more than they can afford, taking out lengthy fourty year mortgages so that they can almost double the interest that they collect from the individuals. Thanks to the asinine bailout of these unscrupulous lenders south of the border, both borrowers and lenders alike up here now think that if the market tanks the government would likewise have to step in and offer them financial assistance. And I have no doubt they would. Who would pay for this though? The poor saps who have been stuck on the sidelines waiting patiently for a market correction and had the foresight to see the so-called "Boom" for what it was - a way for realtor's and lenders to take advantage of desperate home buyers just looking for a roof over their heads.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 01-08-2008).]
Originally posted by aceman: You're still not comprehending anything, Bill. I'm not playing in your games today.
Oh no Mr. Space. I know exactly what you mean. This is no game Mr. Space, this is the reality you created for yourself with all kind and generous thoughts, expressions of your undying compassion and the wonderful things you have done to and for people over your lifetime. This is your big chance at payoff Mr. Space. I'm wishing you the best from the to to the bottom of my heart. I can think of only one more deserving than you Mr. Space.
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Gee, for the past month it looked like you had a full-time to near full-time job. I was really pulling for you, Bill.
Now now Mr. Space. I know what direction you were pulling me in. I let Facts be submitted to a candid world, you were there and read the documents I posted. Thank you for all the support you have given me Mr. Space. I am forever in your debt and I can assure you everything you ever gave to me will be returned to you ten fold over what remains of your life. It is the very least I can do Mr. Space.
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Looks like from your posting times, you lost that job, too. Sorry, Bill.
No no.. Don't be sorry Mr. Space, I'm doing just fine. Oh and Mr. Space? I never had a job but I do work very hard at what I'm good at.
You are too kind Mr. Space. I'll be sure you keep you in my thoughts constantly until we see this whole thing through. That is a promise... Mr. Space.
Originally posted by Phranc: If you mess with bill too much he'll start to threaten you so watch out.
Apparently you know first hand... Phranc. You have a lock on it and I gave you the key.
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Just a warning because hes a tough guy.
Ahh finally the respect I deserve after years and years of hard work. I knew one day you would come around and fall in behind me. Lets see if you can keep up with me. Oh and dont worry if you fall behind, Phranc. I'll gladly let you know where I am. Just ask and I'll tell you where to go. You have my word.
Ahh finally the respect I deserve after years and years of hard work. I knew one day you would come around and fall in behind me. Lets see if you can keep up with me. Oh and dont worry if you fall behind, Phranc. I'll gladly let you know where I am. Just ask and I'll tell you where to go. You have my word.
Good to see you retracting your invitation to stop by and call you a punk to your face.That was very wise of you Phranc.
When did I do that? The only punk here is you bill. You talk a big game but you just that talk. But keep talking. Threaten me some more bill. You are a big tough guy over the internets aren't you. What would you do if you could afford to travel up here and call me a punk bill? Huh tough guy?
[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 01-08-2008).]
