Over at another housing / real estate forum a user posted a link to a site which has a balance of trade index. Just click the small american flag under the graph, and it will compare the current US and Canadian economies. From what I can gather, you guys are importing a whack of goods, but not having much luck exporting commodities.
That commodities exporting will change with a lower value dollar. American goods ( not just manufactured) will be cheaper. Its a balance. A low (artificially low, very low) valued China Yuan is why its so cheap to import from China. If the Yuan were to be fairly valued the price of those China goods would go up and be much closer to the price of American made goods.
There is always another side to economic news, be it good, or bad.
Me, I am looking a GM stock. When the market slides downward it is can be an opportunity to go bargain basement hunting if you decide a company has taken more than a fair hit. Some loser will always panic and sell a good investment. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071109/economy.html
<snip> The Commerce Department said Friday that the deficit for September dipped by 0.6 percent from the previous month -- to $56.5 billion. That was the narrowest trade imbalance since May 2005 and took economists by surprise. They had been forecasting the deficit would rise.
The improvement came from a 1.1 percent jump in U.S. exports, which climbed to a record $140.1 billion. The dollars' decline against many major currencies has made U.S. goods cheaper and more competitive in foreign markets. For September, sales of American-made cars, computers and farm products including corn, cotton, wheat and soybeans were all up.<snip>
Banks said to agree on $75B credit fund: report Agreement would end months of complicated negotiations as economic conditions deteriorate, according to The New York Times November 10 2007: 9:58 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The nation's three biggest banks have agreed on the structure of a backup fund of at least $75 billion in an effort to help stabilize the credit markets, according to a person involved in the discussions, The New York Times reported Saturday.
10b to 75b in two weeks.
Oh and Dow -215.00 -1.62% 13,047.00
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-11-2007).]
Asian markets fall sharply on subprime fears Japan's benchmark Nikkei index falls 2.5 percent on renewed concerns of the credit market turmoil. November 12 2007: 6:53 AM EST
TOKYO (AP) -- Asian markets fell sharply Monday after Wall Street declined at the end of last week on renewed concerns about U.S. mortgage problems. European markets, however, were mixed in early morning trade.
"Basically, the subprime loan issue still drags on, and there is no prospect of what can end the problem," said Shinichi Ichikawa, chief strategist at Credit Suisse of the falls in Asian markets.
Major banks warned last week of further losses in their debt portfolios, raising investor concerns that the credit market slump isn't abating.
Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index fell 2.5 percent, and Hong Kong's Hang Seng dropped 3.9 percent. In South Korea, the Korea Composite Stock Price Index, or Kospi, fell 3.4 percent.
Asia Pacific & Australia
Index Change %Change Level Last Update * Australia ASX 100 -67.90 -1.28% 5,216.70 11/12 4:47pm Australia ASX All Ords -84.10 -1.27% 6,523.30 11/12 4:47pm Australia ASX Mid-cap 50 -141.20 -2.12% 6,519.00 11/12 4:47pm Hong Kong Hang Seng -1,117.68 -3.88% 27,665.73 11/12 5:59pm Hong Kong HSCC Red Chip -352.65 -5.73% 5,800.66 11/12 4:26pm Japan Nikkei 225 -386.33 -2.48% 15,197.09 11/12 4:30pm
Europe Index Change %Change Level Last Update * Belgium Bel 20 -39.51 -0.98% 4,009.10 11/12 1:27pm Europe DJ Stoxx -19.60 -0.53% 3,653.75 11/12 1:27pm Europe Euronext 100 -9.06 -0.92% 976.88 11/12 1:27pm Europe Euronext 150 -10.00 -0.54% 1,828.60 11/12 1:27pm France CAC -40.47 -0.73% 5,483.71 11/12 1:27pm France SBF 80 -31.34 -0.48% 6,502.24 11/12 1:27pm France SBF 120 -28.03 -0.70% 3,992.26 11/12 1:27pm Germany DAX -34.36 -0.44% 7,778.04 11/12 1:27pm Germany MDAX -44.69 -0.45% 9,996.47 11/12 1:27pm Germany TECDAX -8.39 -0.83% 1,002.99 11/12 1:27pm Netherlands AEX -6.87 -1.35% 503.78 11/12 1:27pm Norway BRIX +8.91 +0.23% 3,857.48 11/9 12:00am Norway OSE Industry -11.81 -0.70% 486.47 11/12 1:27pm Sweden OMX -1.77 -0.16% 1,113.32 11/12 1:27pm Sweden OMSX All Share -9.23 -2.48% 362.27 11/9 12:00am UK FTSE 100 -36.30 -0.58% 6,268.60 11/12 12:27pm UK FTSE All Shares -17.09 -0.53% 3,220.23 11/12 12:27pm UK FTSE Eurotop -22.99 -0.73% 3,144.42 11/12 12:27pm UK FTSE Techmark -17.51 -1.05% 1,650.81 11/12 12:27pm
Stocks start to slip Major indexes lose some early momentum, as jittery investors keep eye on oil prices, credit markets. November 12 2007: 3:33 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks failed to sustain their early run-up Monday, with major indexes turning mixed in late afternoon trade as investors weighed a drop in the price of oil and financial sector strength.
Gas prices hit working class Study says lower income people effectively pay 8 times more to fill up; broader economy could feel sting. November 13 2007: 4:38 PM EST
Special Reportfull coverage GAS CRUNCH Rising oil prices hit holiday fliers Oil inches higher as traders inhale Gas prices hit working class $100 oil: It's not dead yet
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Lower-income Americans spend eight times more of their disposable income on gasoline than wealthier residents do.
The disparity is dramatic. In Wilcox, Ala., people spend 12.72 percent of their income to fuel one vehicle, according to a new study from the Oil Price Information Service (OPIS). In Hunterdon County, N.J., people spend 1.52 percent.
The study illustrates the impact rising oil prices are having on people's budgets. Many economists have downplayed the effect gasoline prices will have on consumer spending. But with prices now pushing above $3 and studies like this, some say the economy may take a hit. Ya think?
Wall Street's big rally The Dow gains nearly 320 points, its second-best day of the year, as Wal-Mart's earnings, Goldman Sachs' outlook and falling oil prices spark a big advance. Here's a look at what was moving stocks near the close. Gas prices hit working class
Although the day's news was positive, it perhaps was not as positive as the stock market reaction would suggest, said Fred Dickson, chief market strategist at D.A. Davidson.
"I think we had an oversold market due for a bounce," Dickson said. "Wal-Mart's news wasn't terrific enough to cause a major reversal, but it gave the bulls some support."
The Dow closed below 13,000 Monday for the first time since August, following a selloff from highs hit in October.
--------------- Nice rally today. After the vultures pick the carcase clean lets see what next week looks like
Cleveland: Foreclosure's perfect storm Where Cleveland went wrong It's too easy to blame the city's housing collapse on Rust-belt economics. How bad government and greed made it one of the nation's foreclosure capitals.
CLEVELAND (CNNMoney.com) -- As the Treasurer of Cuyahoga County in Ohio, Jim Rokakis spends a lot of his time trying to deal with Cleveland's foreclosure crisis.
When asked recently just how bad it is, Rokakis unfurled a six-foot by four-foot Cleveland city plot map. Each lot was covered with dots of red ink where foreclosed homes filled the plots. From a few feet away, the map looked heavily freckled, while some neighborhoods nearly melted together in crimson masses.
Foreclosures hit Cleveland early and hard. By the summer of 2007, it had four of the top 21 ZIP codes for foreclosure filings in the United States. According to RealtyTrac, the city's 44105 ZIP, known as the Slavic Village, was the hardest hit U.S. community with 783 filings.
What made Cleveland the nation's foreclosure epicenter?
Like most rust-belt cities, it's suffered serious economic setbacks. The city lost jobs at more than three times the national rate during 2001 through 2003 and has not had a meaningful recovery since, according to Richard DeKaser, chief economist at Cleveland-based mortgage lender National City Corp. The state of Ohio recorded a quarter of all U.S. manufacturing job losses since 2001.
Add considerable population shrinkage: With 450,000 people, Cleveland has fewer than half the residents it boasted in 1950, when only six cities in the nation were larger.
Still, Rokakis and others don't buy the "It's the economy, stupid," explanation. (sounds like a few tards from PFF)
All over the state, even in prosperous communities, foreclosure filings at least quadrupled in 70 of the state's 88 counties over the past 11 years, according to Zach Schiller, of Policy Matters Ohio, an economic think tank. "They grew even when the economy was doing better," he said.
Gas prices hit working class Study says lower income people effectively pay 8 times more to fill up; broader economy could feel sting. November 13 2007: 4:38 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Lower-income Americans spend eight times more of their disposable income on gasoline than wealthier residents do.
The disparity is dramatic. In Wilcox, Ala., people spend 12.72 percent of their income to fuel one vehicle, according to a new study from the Oil Price Information Service (OPIS). In Hunterdon County, N.J., people spend 1.52 percent.
The study illustrates the impact rising oil prices are having on people's budgets. Many economists have downplayed the effect gasoline prices will have on consumer spending. But with prices now pushing above $3 and studies like this, some say the economy may take a hit. Ya think?
For crying out loud, these guys just keep shoveling their line of crap on the stupid populace! (not aimed at you Bill but at the writers) I mean come on! duh, same can be said for a loaf of bread or a pack of chewing gum! Gees got more money it costs less of a percentage of wealth to buy the same thing, duh! Hell when Bill Gates donates a few million dollars to some cause it is the same as me dropping 35 cents in the poor jar at the grocer on a percentage of wealth basis.
Soooo why don't these same jack asses write this percentage income stories when the Democrats raise gas taxes? or cigarette taxes? many more comparisons can be made I'm sure to illustrate the point. Ya, we are for the little guy! The truth hurts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Investors await inflation report Futures drift after dramatic rally on Wall Street; reading on wholesale inflation due before market open.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- U.S. stocks futures drifted Wednesday morning, ahead of some key economic readings and comments by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke.
Stock futures wavered early Wednesday as investors moved to the sidelines after Wall Street had its best day in two months.
But futures could find more direction at 8:30 a.m. ET when the government releases readings on retail sales and inflation at the wholesale level. Then at 9:10 a.m. ET, Bernanke is set to speak at a conference on monetary policy at the CATO Institute.
Signs of tame inflation and consumer strength could help stocks extend their gains, but the rally could quickly end if spending is weaker than expected or prices are higher.
Economists surveyed by Briefing.com forecast that retail sales gained only 0.2 percent in October, down from a 0.6 percent rise in September, due partly to weak auto sales. Excluding autos, those sales are expected to post a 0.3 percent rise after a 0.4 percent gain in the previous months.
The Producer Price Index, which measures prices at the retail level, is seen rising 0.3 percent in October due to higher energy prices after a 0.1 rise in September. The more closely watched core PPI, which strips out food and energy prices, is forecast to be up 0.2 percent, following a 0.1 percent gain.
Bernanke is due to speak on communications by the Federal Open Market Committee, the policymaking body that sets interest rates. Investors and economists will be looking for any clues in the speech about what the Fed might do with rates at its next meeting Dec. 11.
Stocks rallied in a dramatic session Tuesday that sent the Dow Jones industrial average higher about 320 points.
Part of the good news lifting stocks Tuesday was a sharp sell-off in oil, which closed down more than $3 a barrel. But in early trading Wednesday, oil prices rebounded back above the $92 a barrel mark, gaining 92 cents to $92.09.
Still, even with the rise in oil prices, Asian markets closed higher, led by a 2.5 percent gain in Japan's Nikkei. European markets were higher in midday trading.
Other news lifting markets Tuesday were statements from some major Wall Street firms, which said they saw limited problems in the value of their holdings due to subprime and credit market woes.
Early Wednesday, HSBC Holdings (Charts) announced it was taking a $3.4 billion charge because of accelerating losses in its U.S. mortgage business. Shares of the bank slipped 0.8 percent in London trading, even as it said those losses were "more than offset by revenue growth in the group" as a whole and that it saw third-quarter operating income gains.
In other corporate news, billionaire investor Nelson Peltz made a Securities and Exchange Commission filing in which he announced he had submitted an offer to buy Wendy's (Charts), but at a lower price than what he previously said the nation's third-largest hamburger chain is worth. The filing did not say what the new price was - only that it was below the $37 to $41 a share range previously disclosed. But that was still enough to lift Wendy shares in after-hours trading, as they gained nearly 2 percent to $32.24.
Verisign (Charts), which has branched out from its core business of registering Internet names and providing security for online transactions, may pull back from that strategy. The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday the company will tell an analyst meeting that it plans to divest itself of as many as 10 of its 15 business units in a corporate overhaul.
E-Trade Financial CEO Mitch Caplan reportedly canceled a scheduled appearance at a Merrill Lynch & Co. banking conference. E-Trade shares swung wildly earlier this week after it reported October operating results and an analyst suggested it was at risk for bankruptcy. Shares of E-Trade (Charts) lost 59 percent in trading Monday before rebounding 40 percent Tuesday.
Ford Motor CEO Alan Mulally told reporters at the Los Angeles Auto Show that Ford (Charts, Fortune 500) did not need a strategic partner elsewhere in the world or an outside investor to complete its restructuring and return to profitability in 2009. He said that such a combination would be a distraction for the company.
Department store retailer Macy's (Charts, Fortune 500) is due to report results before the market open Wednesday, with analysts forecasting a sharp drop in earnings on lower sales at stores open at least a year. To top of page
------------------------------------
Uh-oh. It's Enron all over again Everything was supposed to be different in the post-Enron era. So why, asks Fortune's Bethany McLean, does it feel like someone hit rewind?
Fortune Magazine) -- Start with the headlines about off-balance-sheet entities known as structured investment vehicles, or SIVs (or sieves, as some wags are calling them). As Gertrude Stein never said, an off-balance-sheet vehicle is an off-balance-sheet vehicle is an off-balance-sheet vehicle.
Just as Enron's off-balance-sheet vehicles were propping up its stock price by camouflaging the company's real financial results, so SIVs were inflating the credit market by providing demand for the complex securities created out of mortgages and loans used to finance buyouts.
Like Enron's off-balance-sheet vehicles, SIVs were invisible to those on the outside -- and to many on the inside -- until they weren't. When times were good, these creations made money for their sponsors, but when times changed, they became a problem for the rest of us.
It's a little bit like "heads I win, tails you lose," which is pretty much how a former Enron executive described that company's off-balance-sheet vehicles.
In both cases, part of the problem was that the rating agencies, which are supposed to serve as watchdogs, were blindly optimistic, either through sheer incompetence or because of conflicts of interest. Just as Enron's investment-grade rating -- which it kept until four days before its bankruptcy -- turned out to be an illusion, so did the investment-grade ratings on many mortgage-backed securities.
"Structured finance," as the Street calls the black art of making one thing look like something else, couldn't transform Enron from a money-losing company into a moneymaking one, and it couldn't make subprime mortgages into investment-grade debt.
Now the rating agencies are scrambling to explain why it isn't a problem that they are paid by the very people they're supposed to rate, and Congress is holding hearings. That's exactly what happened six years ago
After the rally, a retreat Stocks tumbled at the end of a choppy session as higher oil prices, questions about the credit crisis gave investors a reason to retreat after the previous day's rally.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks ended lower Wednesday after a mixed session turned sour in the last half hour of trade, with investors bailing out of technology, financials and some of the other leaders of the previous day's rally.
The Dow Jones industrial average (Charts) fell 83 points after posting modest gains during the session. The S&P 500 (Charts) index fell 0.7 percent, and the Nasdaq composite (Charts) lost 1.1 percent.
After the close, Merrill Lynch (Charts, Fortune 500) confirmed market rumors that NYSE-Euronext chief executive John Thain will take over the top spot at the bank, following Stanley O'Neal's exit.
Stocks had risen in the morning following a mild wholesale inflation report. But the tone turned murkier as the session wore on and investors considered rising oil prices and more questions about the bank sector. In the last half hour, a variety of stocks slumped, dragging down the broader market.
There wasn't one single factor that caused the late selloff, said Paul Mendelsohn, president of Windham Financial Services. He said that the spike in oil prices played a role in the decline, as did some weakness in big industrial stocks such as Caterpillar (Charts, Fortune 500) and 3M (Charts, Fortune 500), but that it was also just driven by traders wanting to take profits after Tuesday's run.
"People are coming up with all sorts of reasons for what caused the selloff, but it may just be all the volatility that's in the market right now," Mendelsohn said. "I think we're going to consolidate a bit."
On Tuesday, the Dow rallied nearly 320 points, scoring its second biggest one-day point gain of the year as investors bet that encouraging comments from Goldman Sachs and other banks meant that the worst of the credit market crisis was over.
But news of large writedowns from HSBC and Bear Stearns Wednesday reminded market participants that the outlook for the credit crisis remains murky.
Additionally, Tuesday's advance was largely fueled by short-covering, analysts said, and that didn't extend into Wednesday's session. Short covering is when investors who sold shares short to take advantage of a falling market have to buy them back.
Looking forward, stocks are in for more volatility through the end of the year, said Peter Cardillo, chief market economist at Avalon Partners. "We still have the same problems we had a week ago."
He was referring to oil prices above $90 a barrel, gold prices above $800 an ounce, a weak dollar and questions about the long-term fallout from the credit market crisis.
------------------------- Looking back on history as a guide, there are many many similarities.
I'm going to say it regardless of many tards on here who will decide to inevitably comment negatively but from what I can see, the first horseman appears to be cresting the horizon. I'd like to think he is headed away but it doesn't look good. I see this like the weather reports, a hurricane off in the Atlantic with weeks before landfall. No one really cares until the wind picks up. I'm boarding up just in case.
The economy isn't in the shitter and people do have jobs but many people are having trouble paying for what they have. Fuel costs and crazy mortgages are a big problem. People are working out here but they are not making enough to pay the bills. Luxury items and services are way down. Restaurant's are having a serious decline and contractors are all scrambling for any work they can get. I frequent the auction world to buy and sell and the surge of people trying to make a buck has been incredible the last 6 months. Selling the used equipment has become near impossible to make a profit.
My family businesses are in retail,construction and property investment and all three are suffering. I do believe things will stabilize but it will be harder and problems will arise sooner and sooner until we simply can not sustain a credit nation any longer. My personal hope is in diversity and preplanning as well as keeping enough capitol on hand to profit from the bad investments of others. example: I am currently looking at a beautiful home built in 01 that sold 13 months ago for 583. Today the bank owns it and it is listed at 329. Their are thousands of examples like this even in equipment.
My advice to anyone getting their hold in the world is to own everything you have and if you do owe money on a home to pay it off at any cost. Sell your junk on ebay or get a second job whatever. A couple hundred bucks a month more towards your mortgage will cut it in half in the long term, Pay off your cars and only buy what you can pay for this month. If 84 Bills doom and gloom comes true and lets face it it just might; people that prepared will be the ones eating with a roof over their head. They will be sad at all the suffering around them but they will have a full belly while being sad.
------------------
Though I am branded a devil in priests clothing I cast not the raiment I wear for I am not beholden to any flock with which any color has been given to me.
"Additionally, Tuesday's advance was largely fueled by short-covering, analysts said, and that didn't extend into Wednesday's session. Short covering is when investors who sold shares short to take advantage of a falling market have to buy them back."
The above is a VERY good indication that the vultures are taking advantage of the markets fall. Buying back stocks on short can be a great financial move but it fuels the degradation of the market.
I addition, with oil peeking at 100 a barrel it looks like holiday travel plans and spending will be weak which will also further the markets downward spiral. The dominoes are falling.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-14-2007).]
Originally posted by pokeyfiero: The economy isn't in the shitter and people do have jobs but many people are having trouble paying for what they have. Fuel costs and crazy mortgages are a big problem. People are working out here but they are not making enough to pay the bills. Luxury items and services are way down.
Well that is the economy, people spending money.
quote
If 84 Bills doom and gloom comes true and lets face it it just might; people that prepared will be the ones eating with a roof over their head. They will be sad at all the suffering around them but they will have a full belly while being sad.
It's not just my ideal of "doom and gloom" but many other can see something looming and it dont look good. I may agree that the economy is sputtering along on 7 of 8 cylinders but when it gets down to 6 it will be WAY to late. The sheeple will start to stampede and that will FOR SURE hasten the arrival of the "doom and gloom" as it were.
Foreclosure filings: No slowdown yet Hardest hit cities are on coasts and in Rust Belt, according to a new survey.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Three states, California, Florida and Ohio, continue to dominate new foreclosure filings, as most of the nation saw increases in the third quarter, according to a new survey.
During the period ended Sept. 30, 77 out of the nation's 100 largest metropolitan areas reported rises in delinquencies compared with the previous three months, according to the latest report from RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosure properties.
The three most affected states reveal the two main causes of mortgage payment problems: economic weakness, as exemplified by Ohio, and speculative excess that led to high home prices and unaffordable mortgages, as represented by California and Florida.
In the past few months, the foreclosure story has become a tale of two regions. Some of the hardest-hit states have traditionally been in the Midwest, where plant closings and job losses have hit the economy there hard.
The other region is the Sun Belt, which is showing even more significant foreclosure growth as out-sized price increases in the first half of the decade led to virtually unchecked real estate speculation.
According to the Center for Responsible Lending, 7.2 million households have subprime mortgages, and more than 14 percent of those are in default. It projects that one of every five of those loans issued in 2005 and 2006 will end in foreclosure, with 2.2 million families losing their homes.
Not every state has been clobbered, according to James Saccacio, RealtyTrac's CEO. "There continue to be pockets of the country - most noticeably metro areas in the Carolinas, Virginia and Texas - that have thus far dodged the foreclosure bullet," he said in a statement.
But, nationally, foreclosure filings, which include all three main stages of foreclosure, default or late payments, auction and real estate owned (properties reacquired by lenders and now being resold), were up 30 percent compared with the previous three months.
Among metro areas, the highest delinquency rate was in Stockton, Calif., which totaled 7,116 filings during the three month period, one for every 31 households. Second was the Detroit area with one per 33 households and a total of 25,708. Half the cities in the top 10 were in California.
Several Massachusetts cities experienced huge delinquency jumps during the quarter. Boston filings soared 146 percent to one per every 220 households, Springfield's increased 151 percent (one per 172) and Worcester 122 percent (one per 150).
Filings in the Providence, R.I./ New Bedford, Mass. area climbed a whopping 295 percent, albeit from a low base, to one for every 549 households.
The metro areas least affected include Greenville, S.C. (one per 3,289), McAllen, Texas (one per 2,185) and Baton Rouge, La. (one per 2,074). To top of page
-------------------- Carolinas are cheap... but it wont last once the local government realize they have a cash cow in their back yard.
Don't worry, Bill. You'll still get your welfare in a recession. You'll still get your free cheese.
Yup
quote
and....
Farmers always do well in a recession. So, Farmer Steve can make lots of money making and selling cheese to the government.
You two will be just fine if a recession hits.
Nope.. not true, if fuel reaches 100 a barrel our breadbasket will need welfare too. if it falters you wont have food and cheese bmay be all thats is left to feed america.
quote
Me, I'm going to see if Red has room in his vehicle and ride out of this thread with him.
Or you can just cry and complain... which you seem to have mastered.
Well, Bill, go get a job so they have less to mull over.
Why? I have one getting free stuff.
However, if I'm that powerful as to hold sway on the entire global market I'd rather retain it by remain home with my feet proped up than hand it over to somone else.
Do you even work anymore? You sure do post a lot during the day. OHHH yeah thats right you "work" for the government.. That makes you an even bigger mooch than me. Sucking up tax payers money and posting on the web..
However, if I'm that powerful as to hold sway on the entire global market I'd rather retain it by remain home with my feet proped up than hand it over to somone else.
Do you even work anymore? You sure do post a lot during the day. OHHH yeah thats right you "work" for the government.. That makes you an even bigger mooch than me. Sucking up tax payers money and posting on the web..
What department is it you say work for?
How is some one who produces something more of a mooch then a lazy bum? Why don't you stop crying and whining about those who do something with their lives. Stop bringing down threads bill. You're pushing me and I'll tell Cliff.
Originally posted by spaceboy II: How is some one who produces something more of a mooch then a lazy bum? Waaahhhh Waaaahhh... Why don't you stop crying and whining about those who do something with their lives. Waaaahhhh Waaaahhhh Stop... Waaaaaaahhh waaaahhh bringing down threads bill. Waaaahhhh You're pushing me Waaaaahhhhh Waaaahhhh and I'll tell Cliff and he will make me eat worms and I'll die and you will be sorry so Waahhh.
Amyway.... Back from the funnies and onto something RELATING TO THE TOPIC which for some (Phranc and Space) is an impossible task.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks tumbled Thursday, with financial, commodity and technology shares leading the charge lower as investors continued to worry about the credit market crisis and the strength of the consumer.
The Dow Jones industrial average (Charts) lost 0.9 percent, according to early tallies. The S&P 500 (Charts) index lost 1.3 percent. The Nasdaq composite (Charts) declined 1 percent.
Small caps were hit harder with the Russell 2000 (Charts) index falling 1.47 percent.
Treasury prices rallied, lowering the corresponding yields. The dollar recovered a bit against the euro but fell versus the yen. Oil and gold prices slipped.
Here's a look at what was moving near the close.
Stocks were mixed throughout the morning as investors mulled steady consumer inflation, stronger readings on manufacturing and the latest credit market troubles - amid a decline in oil prices.
But the market began deteriorating heading into the afternoon, reflecting the recent pattern of gyrating throughout the session and then making a decisive move near the close.
And more selling may be on tap, said Joseph Saluzzi, co-head of equity trading at Themis Trading.
He said that with the exception of Tuesday's blockbuster rally, Wall Street's been pretty negative of late and that could continue leading into the Thanksgiving holiday next week.
Retailers: Consumer spending is in trouble
The Consumer Price Index (CPI) rose 0.3 percent in October, matching September's rise and meeting forecasts. So-called "core" CPI, which excludes food and energy, rose 0.2 percent, also matching September and also in line with forecasts.
Investors have been looking for signs that pricing pressures are remaining mild, even with lower interest rates and higher oil and gas prices threatening to drive up INFLATION.
The weekly jobless claims report showed a surprisingly large jump in new claims last week.
The fact that the CPI came in as expected was probably positive, although it shows inflation pressures remain a risk, said Douglas Roberts, chief investment strategist at Channel Capital Research.
He said the rise in jobless claims was worrisome in that if the trend continues to higher levels of unemployment - at the same time that pricing pressures remain steady - that will pressure the already taxed consumer. Consumer spending fuels around two-thirds of the economy.
"But crude inventories came out kind of confirming that the pressures from oil are dipping in the short term," Roberts said. He said that this was helping temper the day's declines.
U.S. light crude oil for December delivery fell 66 cents to $93.43 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange after the weekly oil inventories report showed a surprise gain in crude supplies last week. (Full story)
Oh and Dow 13,110.05 -113.88 / -0.86%
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-16-2007).]
Uncertainty on Wall Street Futures slip as investors contemplate weak outlook for consumer spending, credit woes persist.
LONDON (CNNMoney.com) -- U.S. stock futures edged lower early Friday as investors remained jittery about the credit markets and worried about the health of the consumer.
At 5:11 a.m. ET, futures were lower, suggesting a weak start for stocks.
Major markets tumbled on Thursday as more banks took writedowns on risky mortgage-backed debt. A number of retailers also posted weak earnings, casting a shadow over the economic outlook.
The late-session decline dragged on Asian markets, which finished the session lower. European stocks also fell in early trading.
Bill, Do you even know what a recession is and how it will affect you? Do you post this out of worrying of the unknown? Here are the most recent recessions:
# 1973 oil crisis - a quadrupling of oil prices by OPEC coupled with high government spending due to the Vietnam War leads to stagflation in the United States.
# 1979 energy crisis - 1979 until 1980, the Iranian Revolution sharply increases the price of oil
# Early 1980s recession - 1982 and 1983, caused by tight monetary policy in the U.S. to control inflation and sharp correction to overproduction of the previous decade which had been masked by inflation
# Great Commodities Depression - 1980 to 2000, general recession in commodity prices
# Late 1980s recession - 1988 to 1992, collapse of junk bonds and a sharp stock crash in the United States leads to a recession in much of the West
# Early 2000s recession - 2001 to 2003: the collapse of the Dot Com Bubble, September 11th attacks and accounting scandals contribute to a relatively mild contraction in the North American economy.
You lived through and survived all of these, right? Our economy didn't just go poof in a puff of smoke. Economies have highs and they have lows. You seem to think this is the end of the world and it's not even close to it. We still haven't had ONE QUARTER of the GDP losing from the previous quarter.
The question is:
What are YOU doing to help the economy? The people arguing against you and Steve are continuing to invest and spend their paycheck. Besides the fact that you don't get a paycheck because you're too damn lazy to get a job. What do YOU do to help the economy? Post doom and gloom?
Do you have a suggestion or solution, Bill?
I don't, so my best way to help is to continue moving forward and spend and invest my paycheck. The gas stations tonight will get about $70 of my paycheck that I don't NEED to spend. Next week, the stores will get the same amount or more of my money that they did last year in my Christmas spending. By next summer, someone will be buying (or renting) my house in Minneapolis and I'll be buying a house in Omaha, NE.
The world will continue to go around and the losers in the economy are the ones that cry doom and gloom and do nothing to help themselves in the low part of the economy.
i dont know for the rest of the biz. owners but the logging biz. is good if the damn tree hugers "green tree,dogwood alliance" would leave us the hell alone.. im ready to F**K some people up if they come out on 1 more job of mine,, then we'll fight it out in court and let them spend some of that money their supporter give them to harrass people... their against logging but all for the pot smokeing sumbitches thats in their org. aint that some sh*t.....sorry about the venting.. had to get it off my chest....i feel better now..lol.lol.
Originally posted by aceman: Bill, Do you even know what a recession is and how it will affect you?
Sure.. I know how it is affecting me and I kno that it affects you less than me and most everyone else. The question is can you see and feel it and or acknowledge it. Just because the world is all rose colored for you doesnt mean it is for everyone else in America.
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Do you post this out of worrying of the unknown?
No. Do you counter what I say because it worries you?
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Here are the most recent recessions:
# 1973 oil crisis - a quadrupling of oil prices by OPEC coupled with high government spending due to the Vietnam War leads to stagflation in the United States.
# 1979 energy crisis - 1979 until 1980, the Iranian Revolution sharply increases the price of oil (a war in the gulf) (oil closed +1.67 today)
# Early 1980s recession - 1982 and 1983, caused by tight monetary policy in the U.S. to control inflation and sharp correction to overproduction of the previous decade which had been masked by inflation.
# Great Commodities Depression - 1980 to 2000, general recession in commodity prices
# Late 1980s recession - 1988 to 1992, collapse of junk bonds and a sharp stock crash in the United States leads to a recession in much of the West
# Early 2000s recession - 2001 to 2003: the collapse of the Dot Com Bubble, September 11th attacks and accounting scandals contribute to a relatively mild contraction in the North American economy.
Yes and history is once again repeating. So why is this time so different? Because income is taxed more now than ever before so people have less money TO SPEND on items and necessities. The consumer index is falling, that means less jobs, less money in circulation, companies will post lower prifits, the market will continue to drop, it is happening right now. Sure Cisco may be doing just peachy.. but when the majority of company profits fall do you think they will still whip out the diamond studded multi platinum card with gold debluens and replace their infrastructure like they did last year? Hell no! They are going to cut spending on wages, layoff a few here and there and raise prices to maintain that stock value as much as possible.. screw the people! In the 70's the average american was not even taxed. It want until 75 and later that the majority of americans paid income taxes. Less is less.
In the 70's we had over stock and warehouses full of products there was no such thing as "on demand" or streamlined operations in manufacturing. Today companies are "scaled down" to the most "efficient" possible to increase profits which causes nice stock prices and dividends for the elite class and not to mention the ceo's of most companies made WAY WAY less comparatively speaking.
There was a MUCH stronger manufacturing base in the 70's and the 80's much of that is gone now, it was replace (fincincailly) with the "dot coms" which crashed in the 90's... right around the time I completed my "higher education"
Now we are AT WAR IN THE ME.. so theres the top two in your list RIGHT THERE.
History is repeating itself but this time there is no room for error, there's no base to re surge from or fall back on except the market itself and that wont work becasue it's like trying to make a perpetual motion machine. It wont work.
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You lived through and survived all of these, right? Our economy didn't just go poof in a puff of smoke. Economies have highs and they have lows. You seem to think this is the end of the world and it's not even close to it. We still haven't had ONE QUARTER of the GDP losing from the previous quarter.
Sure.. I have no doubt I will survive this one too but if I dont I could care less what the hell happens.
But lets just say the world as we know it wont be the same by any stretch. We may not even have the internet.. who knows? I duno about you by the batteries in my crystal ball ran out years ago... so I'm taking FULL advantage of everything I can WHILE I can and take nothing for granted.
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The question is:
What are YOU doing to help the economy?
What can one man do in a sea of some 300 million? I can only affect 1 persons life and that is mine. Other than that I just do what I do cuz I do what I do. That simple.
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The people arguing against you and Steve are continuing to invest and spend their paycheck.
There are many who dont argue against me and their reasons are varied... and I dont care. Those who do I can count on 3 fingers.
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Besides the fact that you don't get a paycheck because you're too damn lazy to get a job.
And you mooch more american tax dollars in a week than I do in a year so cry me a river douchebag.
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What do YOU do to help the economy? Post doom and gloom?
I post news... You post heresay. No links, nothing concrete, only your own opinion which is full of sh!t 90% of the time.
Anyone can get news if they want but since we are in a service oriented economy I figured I'd offer my service to this thread... free of charge.
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Do you have a suggestion or solution, Bill?
Fire government workers, 90% of the politicians, abolish income tax and give more money to AMERICANS and not the japs or chinese.. lower the deficit and debt by ohhhhhh a few TRILLIOIN.... EACH!, get out of the ME and concentrate on getting alternate energy sources and better fuel efficiency.
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I don't, so my best way to help is to continue moving forward and spend and invest my paycheck.
Thats fine IF your world is all rose colored and you have money. You are not the commoner who is struggling to decide to pay the light bill or the mortgage this month... you know hand to mouth crap... which is something you cant comprehend nor as you eloquently stated "care about."
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The gas stations tonight will get about $70 of my paycheck that I don't NEED to spend. Next week, the stores will get the same amount or more of my money that they did last year in my Christmas spending. By next summer, someone will be buying (or renting) my house in Minneapolis and I'll be buying a house in Omaha, NE.
Dont break your arm patting yourself on the back there spacey boy.
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The world will continue to go around and the losers in the economy are the ones that cry doom and gloom and do nothing to help themselves in the low part of the economy.
Maybe not this time spacey... this could be the time you actually lose. Better work really hard and hope things get better and not worse.
It cant get much worse for me and I like it that way.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 11-16-2007).]
Ya know spaceman... just a few more zeros and we might be talking real money here... Not that you care but behind ever few hundred grand is a family without a house... not that you care. We know spaceman.... it's allllllllllllll about the money.
$2 TRILLION lending crunch seen Goldman Sachs economist says mounting credit losses could force banks to significantly scale back their lending.
LONDON (CNNMoney.com) -- The mortgage wipeout could result in a $2 trillion cutback in lending and have dramatic implications for the U.S. economy, according to Wall Street investment bank Goldman Sachs.
The housing slump is expected to end up costing banks, hedge funds and other lenders an estimated $400 billion as defaults on home loans rise, according to Goldman economist Jan Hatzius.
A $400 billion loss is equal to just about 2.5 percent of U.S. stock market capitalization - or a bad day on Wall Street, he wrote in a commentary on Thursday.
But most stock investors don't react aggressively to capital losses the way banks and other lenders do. A bank that aims to maintain a capital ratio of 10 percent would need to shrink its balance sheet by $10 for every $1 in credit losses, the note said.
That means that if lenders end up suffering just half of the $400 billion in potential credit losses, they could be forced to reduce the amount they loan by $2 trillion. Such a drastic credit crunch could have dire consequences for the economy.
"Even if this occurs gradually, and even if there are some offsets from reduced credit demand and increased lending by other sectors, the drag on economic activity could be substantial," Hatzius wrote.
Wall Street banks and brokerages face pain on two fronts. They hold home loans, as well as securities backed by mortgages. Losses on these holdings are expected to deepen as falling housing prices trigger more defaults.
There are a number of factors that could lessen the lending shock, Hatzius noted. Regulators could encourage financial institutions to keep lending, even in times of stress. Some players could raise additional capital by selling stakes in themselves.
But the overall outlook is bleak, as pressure on lending is likely to raise the risk of "significant weakness" in economic activity, the note said. To top of page
Gas prices near all-time high The average price of gasoline is just nine cents below the inflation-adjusted peak set in 1981; new record likely in coming weeks.
Industrial production nosedives Largest plunge in nine months, led by electricity, gas, auto and housing weakness; rate cut more likely if conditions worsen, analysts say.
Bears back in control Credit fears drag overseas stocks lower; crude prices jump.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- U.S. stocks could face more headwinds Monday as subprime worries hit overseas stocks and oil prices jumped.
At 6:06 a.m. ET, Nasdaq and S&P futures were weaker. Volatile trading is expected ahead of the Thanksgiving holiday on Thursday.
(sounds like a few tards from PFF)
