Originally posted by jstricker: But they did, didn't they? So you're still singing the same (wrong) tune.
Now go back to the beginning and re-read what I was saying.
Recap. Had the fed not thrown BILLIONS of dollars into the market (to bail out the banks) to act as a buffer and had the fed not lowere interest rates (again to bail out the banks) the market(s) would still be in the tank.
So King John, how long will this bubble continue before it bursts?
No. I'm stating that we./the Feds now know how to prevent Doom and Gloomers from trying to drag down an economy.
really? I thought it was the huge outflow of cash to foriegn nations which was dragging down the economy, not bad attitudes. and, I am impressed that there are professionals who can fix that. I could use that kinda smarts at home, so I can spend more than I make, and still be OK. I suppose I can make my $$$ worthless, maybe that will help.
No. I'm stating that we/ the Feds now know how to prevent Doom and Gloomers from trying to drag down an economy.
Well.... What myself and several others had said prior to the fed making those changes... again PRIOR to those changes... that the system was faltering.
There was no "trying" to drag down anything.. Do you honestly believe that a handfull of car forum guys can drag down an entire system? No... that would be poppycock. We (myself and a few others) had suspicions that the system was faltering and evidentally we were proven correct by the actions of the FED who "later" made several multibillion dollar infusions and changes to interest rates to "correct" the problem..
Call it a market correction if you will but without intervention... your tune might be quite different... might... maybe.
Doom and gloom asside. Some of us "detected" the problem early on and others "refused" to acknowledge the situation as needing attention. Very common for the nay sayers... which is cool.
Thanks for clearing things up.
I'll still be posting info as I come across it.. like the one earlier.
quote
When Fed ignorance isn't bliss The machinery for creating credit has gotten so complicated and powerful in recent years that not even the Fed may know what it's doing, writes bond expert Bill Gross in Fortune.[quote]
Interesting read if you have a minute.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-02-2007).]
[QUOTE] Oil dips as dollar's fall continues The Associated Press October 2, 2007
Oil futures fell Monday but still closed above $80 a barrel as investors grew more concerned that market fundamentals do not support the high prices achieved in crude's record-setting September rally. Meanwhile, the dollar sank to another all-time low against the euro and a 31-year low against the Canadian dollar.
Everything is fine.
quote
TD Bank in Deal for Commerce Bancorp By GEOFF MULVIHILL | Associated Press Writer 4:52 PM EDT, October 2, 2007 MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. - Canada's second largest bank is bidding to bulk up its south-of-the-border presence by buying New Jersey-based Commerce Bancorp for $8.5 billion in cash and stock.
The deal announced Tuesday would nearly double TD Bank Financial Group's United States presence, adding Commerce's roughly 460 branches on the East Coast.
TD Bank, with a market capitalization of $52.2 billion, is Canada's second-largest bank. Forbes' Canada 40 list from 2005 named it the nation's fourth largest company overall. It already owns TD Banknorth, with about 600 branches in the United States, most of them in New England but some as far south as the Philadelphia area. He said the acquisition would make the company a major player in United States banking, ranking seventh largest in terms of number of branches.
It would also become the second-largest bank in both Philadelphia and New Jersey, expand its business in New York and get a beachhead in Washington and Florida. .... over the next year or so, TD Banknorth President and CEO Bharat Masrani said, TD Banknorth and Commerce will combine their back-office operations.
Just a little fire sale. Nothing to be concerned with. Its GOOD when foreign interests control US banks. We can easily afford to lose a few more white collar jobs.
Originally posted by NEPTUNE: TD Bank in Deal for Commerce Bancorp By GEOFF MULVIHILL | Associated Press Writer 4:52 PM EDT, October 2, 2007 MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. - Canada's second largest bank is bidding to bulk up its south-of-the-border presence by buying New Jersey-based Commerce Bancorp for $8.5 billion in cash and stock.
The deal announced Tuesday would nearly double TD Bank Financial Group's United States presence, adding Commerce's roughly 460 branches on the East Coast.
TD Bank, with a market capitalization of $52.2 billion, is Canada's second-largest bank. Forbes' Canada 40 list from 2005 named it the nation's fourth largest company overall. It already owns TD Banknorth, with about 600 branches in the United States, most of them in New England but some as far south as the Philadelphia area. He said the acquisition would make the company a major player in United States banking, ranking seventh largest in terms of number of branches.
It would also become the second-largest bank in both Philadelphia and New Jersey, expand its business in New York and get a beachhead in Washington and Florida. .... over the next year or so, TD Banknorth President and CEO Bharat Masrani said, TD Banknorth and Commerce will combine their back-office operations.
Didn't TD just join forces with one of those online trade firms???
More banks could join the red-flag parade After warnings by Citi and UBS, JPMorgan and others could follow with bad news of their own, though retail banking could lessen the pain.
Seems the upswing in the market has quited the masses and got them back to "business as usual" but under the carpet is a fetted rat carcase stinking up the place... Nice diversion. Would you agree?
There was another interesting article too about the companis that gave out those bad loans, which in part caused this mess. Seems they recieved lots of bail out cash monie but the "underwriters"... (would that be the insurers?) wont approve the bailouts (mortgage refis) for the people who got those crap mortgages and are in danger of loosing their houses. In addition the mortgage holders dont know how to approve who or what for the help...
Apparently the loan companies and underwriters will get the play money, handle the fire sales on the houses and get tax write offs from the Profit LOSSat the end of the year. Kinda nice how this is all playing out. The good thing is the bail out monies are there, the bad thing is the people will only get a fraction and theos who concockted this mortgage scandal will walk away wealthy and free.
To the beginning of what, Bill? If you expect me to go back and re-read every one of your posts, that ain't happening. Once was enough. I can only stand so much pessimism and doomsaying at one sitting.
The feds had interest too high, IMHO, given the inflation numbers. That's what the interest rate is used for, to control inflation. There are some valid concerns. The national debt is one. The increasing amount of obligations for social security, medicare, and other mandatory government spending is another. The most immediate threat is to the devalued dollar, something that IS the direct responsiblity as stated in the Constitution of the US Congress.
But that doesn't mean the world is coming to an end.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:
Now go back to the beginning and re-read what I was saying.
Recap. Had the fed not thrown BILLIONS of dollars into the market (to bail out the banks) to act as a buffer and had the fed not lowere interest rates (again to bail out the banks) the market(s) would still be in the tank.
So King John, how long will this bubble continue before it bursts?
Bad news is good news ... Especially if the Fed notices. In the fourth quarter, low expectations might equal solid gains despite lousy earnings and wary consumers.
"Even with no revisions, that 3.1 percent figure would put S&P 500 earnings growth at the worst level in more than 5 years, since the second quarter of 2002, when earnings grew just 1.4 percent."
For once you are right. A weaker dollar is a good thing since it makes our exports cheaper in foreign markets, it increases travel to US vacation destinations from foreign tourism, and it increases output meaning more jobs.
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[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 10-03-2007).]
For once you are right. A weaker dollar is a good thing since it makes our exports cheaper in foreign markets, it increases travel to US vacation destinations from foreign tourism, and it increases output meaning more jobs.
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It's amazing how the naysayers will always find something negative. If the dollar is up, it's bad. If the dollar is down, it's bad. When is it not bad?
Originally posted by JazzMan: Of course, it's always more complicated. A blanket statement that "A weaker dollar is a good thing..." is far too generic to have any real meaning. For instance, a good thing for who? For exporters it's good, for importers it's bad. What do we export and import? We are a net importer of food and energy, and also import many goods, so that means we pay more for all of that. By we, I mean the consumers in this economy, who are actually pretty much the vast majority (I always liked that term) of the economy. What do we export? Other than jobs, that is? Harleys to Japan? The trade deficit number clearly shows that we import far, far more than we export, so by definition when the dollar's value falls we get hurt more than we get helped. .....
the US actually DOES have some decent exports. metals, minerals & food being the major ones. the US has some of the best farmland there is. and, the 2 main mountains ranges are great sources of metals & minerals. and, of course - entertainment. ever watch foreign movies? characters & plots are like saturday morning cartoons. europe, japan, china - all need stuff we got. japan has NO resources - thats why its so teetery. china has minerals. coal being their big one. europe - long since raped. they HAD to form the EU to consolidate what is left. we just need to re-coup after losing some of our industrial might. and, thats just SOME.
For once you are right. A weaker dollar is a good thing since it makes our exports cheaper in foreign markets, it increases travel to US vacation destinations from foreign tourism, and it increases output meaning more jobs.
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Right... Good thing too because it makes H1B's not all that appealing.
It also means that our money can buy less imported garbage. In general it means WE need to make more money to buy crap, buy health care and pay for crap to live on.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-03-2007).]
John, I see grapes from Chili, peppers from Mexico, apples from south America. All I can ask how is it cheaper to bring in fruits and vegetables from South America, than from California?
John, I see grapes from Chili, peppers from Mexico, apples from south America. All I can ask how is it cheaper to bring in fruits and vegetables from South America, than from California?
and - dont forget the African Oranges.
anyways - yes, we do import food - but we export more and, the trick with the fruit import is this thing called "seasons". the whole world enjoys apples & oranges from the USA. but, again - our main food export is the grains. no land on earth touches our "breadbasket" in output.
A falling dollar helps some, but it hurts more than it helps, and it creates more long term problems for consumers and their economy than the short term profits that it gives to the very few that benefit from exporting.
JazzMan
The "very few" ?!?!
What can you possibly be talking about? This country exports more than any other country in the world! It affects all of us!
Granted, a weak dollar is not all roses and cherries; imports are more expensive and foreign investment in the US will be weaker.
But even with these pains I find reason to be glad, I want more productivity and more investment at home and a weak dollar will create that very dynamic. People will by that Cadillac instead of that Jaguar, that is good for all of us.
A weaker dollar is a good thing since it makes our exports cheaper in foreign markets, it increases travel to US vacation destinations from foreign tourism, and it increases output meaning more jobs.
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please don't bring educated information to this discussion....it has moved far away from that
My NYL mutual fund and my 401k have both performed wonderfuly in the recent "so called" bad months. I wouldn't mind an explaination for that considering the economy is going down the tubes in some peoples opinion
on a side note.......I'm just curious, how many who have offered opinions in this thread are invested in the NYSE?
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 10-04-2007).]
please don't bring educated information to this discussion....it has moved far away from that
Yeah, when they start attacking my "tone" instead of my facts, then I know the conversation has turned south. I bailed out on this thread once before when the loonies started screeching at my remarks..like what the hell do I know about the topic anyway.
Think I'll walk away again and just let it dissolve into the doomsayer love in it is destined to become.
Originally posted by ditch: please don't bring educated information to this discussion....it has moved far away from that
My NYL mutual fund and my 401k have both performed wonderfuly in the recent "so called" bad months. I wouldn't mind an explaination for that considering the economy is going down the tubes in some peoples opinion
on a side note.......I'm just curious, how many who have offered opinions in this thread are invested in the NYSE?
so, a weak dollar is better than a strong dollar? hmm, never would have imagined that.... but, yes - I do agree that mutual funds have done really really well as the dollar sank. I expect that is due to offshore investing.
CSCO nearly $33 bucks! Go baby Go!!! LFC is on a roll @ 81 and change. Not bad if you purchase the stock @25 bucks and right before the 2-1 split in Aug @61 bucks. Buy on the dip and ride it upwards!
Geezs, LFC @ 94 and RIMM @ 114 and climbing...a 12% increase from last night closing.
Originally posted by madcurl: Geezs, LFC @ 94 and RIMM @ 114 and climbing...a 12% increase from last night closing.
And that means so much to these people.
Boom, Bust in Area Beset by Foreclosures
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Oct 6, 10:19 PM (ET)
By ADAM GELLER  (AP) Greg Giniel sits out in front of his home which is in foreclosure in the Villages of Queen Creek... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} QUEEN CREEK, Ariz. (AP) - Out on Phoenix's suburban fringes, where cement mixers are fast colonizing what's left of the hay and cotton fields, the day is winding to a close. The home hour has arrived. But sundown gives away a troubling secret: Behind dark windows and many unanswered doors, it's clear nobody is coming home. The ranch home on Via del Palo where the newspaper in the driveway has been sitting unclaimed since April. The house at the corner of 223rd Court with faded fliers stuck in the door. The two-story on Via del Rancho with the phone book on the step. They're all empty, left behind by a rising tide of foreclosures.
I’m sure these people are happy the market is doing well to.
But some relatively modest purchases would prove to be risky gambles. Greg Giniel and his wife moved into a home on East Sanoque Drive bought by a friend, with Giniel as a silent partner. What Giniel hadn't counted on was that the friend had also bought three other homes around the Valley, all financed with adjustable rate loans that were bound to rise. One street over, the Kesslers paid $279,000 for a house in the fall of 2005. With $25,000 down and an interest-only loan, it seemed like a wiser deal than their old rental. There was a problem, though, obvious only in hindsight. A market that had skyrocketed was about to take a plunge. --- It takes time for a homeowner to get into trouble, but sometimes not all that long. In the summer of 2006, the Gustafsons fell behind on their mortgage payments. Their interest rate was set to jump. In August, their lender started foreclosure. Meanwhile, problems began to snowball. High gas prices prompted people to rethink the idea of owning a home on the outskirts. Investors rushed to sell. In 2005 - a record-best year for Phoenix real estate - just five homes in the ZIP code containing the Villages were lost to foreclosure, according to Information Market, a Phoenix real estate research firm. Last year, lenders claimed 15, nearly all in the final two months of the year. So far this year, 75 homes have been claimed by banks. But with the market so soft and more adjustable rate mortgages about to reset, that could be just the beginning. In the Villages, many of the homes where foreclosure is pending are already empty, a sign owners have given up.
And this is just such good news, and the economy is doing just great.
But on other streets, the presence of homes without curtains in the windows, with dirt and cobwebs collecting in doorways, is almost eerie. Even when the market was good, some Villagers were troubled by the large number of investor-owned homes, empty or filled with renters. Then late last year, moving vans began to pull up to some homes at odd hours. Auction notices were posted on front doors. The oleander and mesquite trees that do so well here in the desert sun turned brown in yards left without water. In May, the house to the left of the Pickerings' on Calle de Flores went to foreclosure. Two weeks later, the house on the right followed. Both had been empty for months. It made David Pickering vaguely uneasy. He couldn't help wondering whether empty houses might attract vandals. "The weeds in the back are getting so tall now that they are growing over the separating wall into my yard," he e-mailed, alerting the homeowners association to one of the vacancies. "Something must be done about this. ... The property must be under financial responsibility of someone." For a couple of months, landscaper Nick Bourque - who lives next door to three foreclosed homes in a row on Via del Palo - made a point of keeping the abandoned yard bordering his free of nutsage and old newspapers. "I just figured after a while, the heck with it," he says. A real estate agent scheduled an auction of the home, but found no takers. On Via del Rancho, Christelle Palmire watched as the home next door was abandoned to foreclosure. It stayed empty, too.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Maybe these idiots should have invested their money into the stock market instead of over-spending in the housing market.
And maybe Nixon should not have done what he did.
I blame people like the money hungry real estate broker who inflated these prices, the stock brokers who made money on ever trade they made, the banks who made the loans.
No matter who you put the blame on the economy is in the toilet.
The people who are hurting are hard working Americans who tried to do what they thought was a good investment.
People who used to own homes, have money in the stock market, used to have good paying jobs.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: I blame people like the money hungry real estate broker who inflated these prices, the stock brokers who made money on ever trade they made, the banks who made the loans.
Steve, time for you to get out of the pool again! Stop trying to swim in the deep end! A real estate broker is selling a house for what he thinks someone will pay for the house. The stock broker, too, has a legit job. Both jobs, apparently, once again, you don't understand and will never understand. And therefore, they're evil, immoral, illegit jobs. Get out of the pool, dry off and go weed a garden, Steve.
Did that real estate agent force these people to buy instead of rent? Did a stock broker force someone to invest in a stock?
Steve, I'm middle-class and have a house up for sale. I have money in stocks. I have a retirement account that is invested in the stock market. I'm doing just fine, thank you! As are many, many, many other middle-class Americans.
They are just as much to blame for the price increases that went overboard as anyone else. They make money every time a house sells, more when they sell for more. Just ask Todd, he makes more if the house property sells for more. Hell he just paid cash for a brand new car on the money he made selling a property in an auction type sale.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
They are just as much to blame for the price increases that went overboard as anyone else. They make money every time a house sells, more when they sell for more. Just ask Todd, he makes more if the house property sells for more. Hell he just paid cash for a brand new car on the money he made selling a property in an auction type sale.
A car salesman makes money every time he sells a car. And, he makes more money, if he can find a sucker to buy it for $25,000 instead of $23,500.
So, you're showing, once again, that you're a bitter man because someone with an education makes more money than you???????
You're an idiot, Steve.
(Remember, you said you would respond to my posts like this! )
"The Gustafsons picked out Corian counters and maple licorice-finished cabinets at the builder's design center, and opted for a pool and a whirlpool bath, adding more than $50,000 to their loan. The interest rate was fixed for only two years, but they didn't worry. With prices rising so fast, they could always refinance. And in five or six years, the Gustafsons figured, they'd sell for $500,000 and downsize."
I'm suppose to have compassion for these mental midgets? I bought my home in 1999. It listed for $119,000. I bought for $105,000. This was in a time when idiots were placing offers of $125-130,000 for a house like I got. The buyers bit. I could have dropped $50,000 into the home and I probably could have refinanced to get that extra $50,000. I didn't. Corian counters and a whirlpool wasn't going to increase my resale. 2.5 years ago, I could have sold my house for $225,000. Now, it's listed for $189,000 and I'll happily take $175,000 for it. My neighbor has less of a house than mine. Tried to sell it for $179,000. He took it off the market because he was going to lose money on any offer $170,000 or less. (Bought the house for $130,000 and then took out another loan for $25,000.)
When I sell my house, I will make a nice profit. Yes, I could have made much more 2-3 years ago. I was very conservative in my initial investment and didn't overspend, because someone said I could.
[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 10-07-2007).]
