I thought you believed that the earth was roughly 6000 years old. Pangea refers to a much larger earth of around 4.5 billion years. Genuinely curious how both theories can exist (Pangea with young earth)?
I do believe in a young earth. I don't know if Pangaea is true science. If it is, does that mean it couldn't have been torn apart by the flood? Again, I don't know. Just throwing thoughts out there.
And therefore you have the right to your opinion about the entertainment value of the movies. Just as I have that right. We both have the right to post our opinions on any movie.
I agree.
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer: In a similar way, I don't usually like "live" versions of music.
And therefore you have the right to your opinion about the entertainment value of the movies. Just as I have that right. We both have the right to post our opinions on any movie.
As was pointed out, many people dislike movies because they do not follow the book close enough. That viewpoint does not indicate that those people are "crying" about a movie nor does it indicate that they have "no life outside of books".
In a similar way, I don't usually like "live" versions of music. When I'm trying to sing along with my favorite tunes, it is an interruption to the flow of my enjoyment when the arrangement is changed. It catches me off guard and I have to re-set my mind back into the song and try to pick it back up again when I find it familiar again.
Being critical of a movie not following exactly to the book is one thing, but going so far as wanting to storm out of the theatre and proclaim to everybody "I hated it!", is another. The latter is something else besides being critical or even not entertained. Its a deeply rooted anger that needs to be better managed. Look for your God for help.
Good post. I would counter with scientists tell us that at one time, all the continents were a single mass of land called Pangaea. Could it have been easier to flood all of the earth if it was all connected and centrally located? Maybe. Unsure if that makes a difference other than the scientific fact that the Moon pulls on the ocean and causes it to be deeper on that side of the Earth at the time. Perhaps, the Moon was over Pangaea and pulled more water over it.
The problem is that geological and fossil evidence doesn't support the flooding of Pangea AND the existence of humans during that phase of the earth. But we do have fossil evidence of dinosaurs. There is just too much "evidence" against a global flood. As I said, it makes for a great story, but back when Noah was around, people's knowledge of "the world" was very different. They only knew of what they were told of or could witness. To me, it makes the bible a good source of verbal stories, passed down through the ages. It makes sense if you look at it this way. If you want to believe there is more to it, then that is fine, but the physical evidence just doesn't support it. Maybe one day we will find additional scrolls, or such, but it is hard to say what may still exist, as religion does strange things to people and any counter "scrolls" may have been destroyed by "believers". It is human nature.
Did a flood happen? Yup, just a regional one, is what I believe. It doesn't make the Bible wrong, just more "regional". As people may say... "my world is at an end..."
I do believe in a young earth. I don't know if Pangaea is true science. If it is, does that mean it couldn't have been torn apart by the flood? Again, I don't know. Just throwing thoughts out there.
I don't want to be mean. You don't understand much about geology.
In the first half of page 2, Nurb claims to have answered a question of mine.
quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:
I answered it, but not to your satisfaction, or understanding. Which does not surprise me.
A few posts later, he reiterates the same claim.
quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:
Sorry you cant understand my previous answer. I cant help you.
Nurb is so sure of himself, that he re-states it for a third time while still on page 2. He adds that Wichita has shown that he understands the answer.
quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:
And i answered your question, its not my fault if you didn't understand it. Wichita clearly did..
My questions prior to his first claim of supplying an answer were:
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:
Just exactly what level of stupid do you have to reach to NOT realize that it is INCREDIBLY offensive to insult someone's faith?
Or is it just a matter of reaching an elevated status of "azzhat" that allows you to not give a damn about being respectful to your forum brothers?
Who was insulted?
how many more threads need to be filled by the same people with the same blatant insensitivity and insults?
Doubt in what? Which sentence of mine displays that I have any degree of doubt? What do insults have to do with faith? Are you saying that I cannot hold a religious faith and at the same time understand when that faith is being insulted?
Who told you that nothing anyone says will affect me or any person of faith? Defiene affect? Can they make me change my beliefs? No. Will I understand that people are going out of their way to attack and confront people with different beliefs?
Do you understand mine? (my points)
Who's mind have you changed with your comments? Who has felt unwelcome in TO/T? Who has been pushed out? Who has been silenced?
If you were so lucky as to be successful in pushing out all the Christians, what group would you turn your "attention" to next? When and where does the bullying end?
When and where will the insults end?
I will try my best to answer your questions and explain my answers. What more can anyone do?
You actually HAVE traveled the world in search of the answers about the global flood? Did you publish a paper on your findings? Please tell us where you went, who you spoke to, and what you learned. Did any of your findings surprise you?
Again, I ask, if the attacks on Islam have limited Doni's participation, and you are concerned about that, how does bashing Christianity help the situation?
What good has come from your Christian bashing on this forum? How many more times will you need to insult another group of members before you can feel like a man?
That sure was a long list of questions. He had plenty to choose from. Here are Nurb's posts between my first question and his claim of having answered "something".
quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:
So its ok for you to insult others with your faith but someone cant insult you because of it? Double standard there, bucko. ( sounds like you have some doubt too.. if you were truly a believer nothing anyone else says would effect you.. )
I hate to have to agree with you, bout in this case i do.. but i dont think even if 1000 people pointed out his hypocrisy it would make an impact. his god is right. the only religion that can be spoke of is his. "freedom of speech and religion, unless if conflicts with mine"
If you think a person expressing themselves is being a bully, you have a lot of growing up to do. ( and you are one your self if you EVER state you opinion )
Lets try this a different way, and ill try to make it simple: I, due to the lack of evidence to support it, and knowledge of how the brain works, know there is no imaginary all powerful deity, and anyone who thinks there is would be foolish, but if they want to believe lies propagated over the centuries, more power to them. You, on the other hand, again with no actual evidence to support your view, think there is one simply from belief ( a psychosis ) and anyone that does not accept your view is an evil person, should be squelched and are going to hell. In a darker time, they would be burnt at the stake. So... you want to tell me who the real bully is?
You have no knowledge of what i have or have not done, or where i have or have not been. Again, working without facts.
He has. On more than on occasion. Funny thing is, his faith isn't effected by others that dont believe as him. Sort of ironic, dont you think, as you sit here and cry it isn't fair that people are taking about your imaginary god?
Cant help you if you consider facts insulting. That sounds like a personal problem.
Your religion supports it, and has actively pursued it in the past ( may still be in some parts of the world, donno ). Does this mean you get to pick and chose what orders you want to follow and still claim it as yours? Cool, sounds like a hell of a deal to me.
I'm quite secure in who i am. Sounds like you are a bit unsure of yourself.
Well, he has chosen a far more violent ( at least in current times... ) and destructive religion than many others have.. It sort of goes with the territory.
That's it. Those are all of Nurb's posts between my first question and his first claim to have answered "something". For the record, can anybody match any of my questions with any of Nurb's statements in a rational question-answer pair?
As for whether or not Wichita understood his "answer", here is what Wichita had to say in the same time frame.
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:
Why did you go to the movie in the first place? Especially knowing full well it wouldn't follow exactly to your perverted interpretation of the Old Testament? Didn't your pastor tell you and the rest of the sheep not to watch it? Looks like you sinned.
What you want is the ability to prophetize and express your faith to others without criticism nor questioning of your faith. You frame this in the context of respect. But then you want to have the right to criticize and express your opinion on others, even as TOP of this thread.
Why do people like you cannot stand it to be both ways? Why is your religion the only subject that you want exempt? Why not just respect the movie makers film and say nothing, instead of expressing such a negative opinion? Do you not see your self with the plank in your eye? Matthew 7:3. If you want to stand up to your faith and proclaim it loudly as the truth, you better grow a sack in order to accept all the laughing criticisms that will come your way. Instead you act like a whiny azz biatch.
So tell me, anyone, where in any of Wichita's posts is a reference to ANYTHING that Nurb said? Just exactly how did these statements constitute an understanding of what Nurb said?
Try again Nurb. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO STOP YOUR INSULTS OF THE FAITH PROCLAIMATIONS OF OTHER FORUM MEMBERS?
I don't want to be mean. You don't understand much about geology.
You are correct. I just have very basic knowledge about it. That's why I posted my thoughts as questions and maybes. Also said I was "throwing out some thoughts" which means I was thinking out loud, so to speak.
Being critical of a movie not following exactly to the book is one thing, but going so far as wanting to storm out of the theatre and proclaim to everybody "I hated it!", is another. The latter is something else besides being critical or even not entertained. Its a deeply rooted anger that needs to be better managed. Look for your God for help.
Never happened. Have you been able to capitialize on your incredible talent for writing fiction?
Leaving a movie IS being critical. Some people make careers out of being critics. Are you required to stay in your seat when you go to the movies? I'm not. I'm free to leave.
But I DIDN'T LEAVE. I believe I made that clear. Another reading comprehension failure for you. Don't you ever tire of being wrong? I wanted to leave. If I had, it wouldn't have been the first movie I ever walked out on. My first was the Star Wars movie that had Jar-Jar Binks. His character grated on my nerves so bad I couldn't find enjoyment in the movie. I left quietly.
Another was The American with George Clooney. I kept waiting for it to be good but it never was. Again, I walked out quietly.
I never "proclaimed" anything to anybody in any movie. You need to get back on your meds.
Thank you for being honest and objective. Too many people FLAT OUT REFUSE to concede ANY points made by a person "on the other side" of their argument. Well done.
I wonder what kind of meaningful discussion can be had on that basis. It's like "men are from Mars and women are from Venus".
It's like having a discussion about cars and I take the position that there's not really an internal combustion process but rather there are tinny little horses running in a wheel that make the power. The engine noise is just god trying to throw us off the right track. And you say that an engine can be opened and the internals analyzed? First, I dare you to challenge my faith and second, your "facts" are just acts of god making it appear as if there were no horses but there are. I have a book that says so.
Now, if you ridicule me for saying that, you're disrespecting me and my beliefs! Shame on you!
The problem is that geological and fossil evidence doesn't support the flooding of Pangea AND the existence of humans during that phase of the earth. But we do have fossil evidence of dinosaurs. There is just too much "evidence" against a global flood. As I said, it makes for a great story, but back when Noah was around, people's knowledge of "the world" was very different. They only knew of what they were told of or could witness. To me, it makes the bible a good source of verbal stories, passed down through the ages. It makes sense if you look at it this way. If you want to believe there is more to it, then that is fine, but the physical evidence just doesn't support it. Maybe one day we will find additional scrolls, or such, but it is hard to say what may still exist, as religion does strange things to people and any counter "scrolls" may have been destroyed by "believers". It is human nature.
Did a flood happen? Yup, just a regional one, is what I believe. It doesn't make the Bible wrong, just more "regional". As people may say... "my world is at an end..."
Fair enough. I just happen to find a great deal of happiness and security in believing the Bible. I believe I have seen God work in my life and I am grateful that I have been able to recognize that work as being His.
I wonder what kind of meaningful discussion can be had on that basis. It's like "men are from Mars and women are from Venus".
It's like having a discussion about cars and I take the position that there's not really an internal combustion process but rather there are tinny little horses running in a wheel that make the power. The engine noise is just god trying to throw us off the right track. And you say that an engine can be opened and the internals analyzed? First, I dare you to challenge my faith and second, your "facts" are just acts of god making it appear as if there were no horses but there are. I have a book that says so.
Now, if you ridicule me for saying that, you're disrespecting me and my beliefs! Shame on you!
I'm sure that means something to someone. Have a good day.
Fair enough. I just happen to find a great deal of happiness and security in believing the Bible. I believe I have seen God work in my life and I am grateful that I have been able to recognize that work as being His.
Nothing wrong with that and as for the movie (or any movie), sit back and enjoy the entertainment!
BTW, I think my favorite epic bible movie is still the Ten Commandments.... Charlton Heston...
Now if it was a totally new work and unrelated to anything else.. how was it?
By that measure, it could easily be found to be entertaining. It is getting good reviews according to Rotten Tomatoes. I don't know if I can be completely objective at this point, though. Maybe if it had been more science-fictiony I would have liked it more. Say for instance, if it had been set on a distant planet and the people had leopard/lizzard skin. I may have liked it and thought to myself, "Hey! I see alot of similarities to our Noah story! Neat!"
Avatar is one of my favorites.
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 03-31-2014).]
Not sure I want to see Noah, I have read some really horrendous things about this film. I am not a Bible thumper, but the story has been written for hundreds of years and for some atheist to take it and twist it just really bothers me. Really do not know why so many people who do not Believe feel so threatened by Christianity. I have no problem with you not believing, but I do have a problem with you taking our religion and twisting it into something it is not, and taking our Book of Faith and rewriting so a point that you are simply making fun of what it says.
Today is a state holiday, Cesar Chavas day. If you can manage to get a job here working for the government. any job, city, county or state you have won the lottery.
start with the easy button: there is not enough H2O for a global flood
tho, I suppose God being God, could easily just create the water, and then remove it later, right?
If the bottom of the oceans swelled outward from expanding molten lava, I would imagine the water could easily cover all dry land without adding a single drop of "Heavenly" water.
Water on Mars exists today almost exclusively as ice, with a small amount present in the atmosphere as vapour.[1] The only place where water ice is visible at the surface is at the north polar ice cap.[2] However, abundant water ice is also present beneath the permanent carbon dioxide ice cap at the Martian south pole and in the shallow subsurface at more temperate latitudes.[3][4][5][6] More than five million cubic kilometers of ice have been identified at or near the surface of modern Mars,enough to cover the whole planet to a depth of 35 meters. [7] Even more ice is likely to be locked away in the deep subsurface.[8]
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 03-31-2014).]
No, there isn't. I heavily studied geology in school, and have to look at geological surveys literally every day at work.
Any evidence for a global flood it mushed in like trying to put the wrong piece into a puzzle. The global flood is actually one of the largest reasons I went from a firm Believer to an atheist. I had to know geology too well to continue neglecting the data. I'm sorry.
When I got my Masters in Geology, that was not the case............
When I got my Masters in Geology, that was not the case............
Really?
Everything I was taught was against that. Were certain areas under water at certain times? Yeah. Where I Iive now used to be under water. But not everywhere all at once. Not a global flood.
When did you get your Masters? And where from? It may depend. I don't know if BYU teaches in a global flood because of their Mormon culture but they have a great geology program, I can see a firm believer putting pieces together when they don't quite fit.
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:
You are correct. I just have very basic knowledge about it. That's why I posted my thoughts as questions and maybes. Also said I was "throwing out some thoughts" which means I was thinking out loud, so to speak.
No offence taken.
Thanks. I'm not trying to be offensive. Hopefully you can tell that through our interactions.
I have previously expressed my inability to literally believe the story of Noah. I don't literally believe "Star Wars" either. They are both morality stories that can have value and entertain. I'm sure that I will eventually watch "Noah" even though I don't go out for movies anymore. He hit me back first Mrs Crabtree!
Not sure I want to see Noah, I have read some really horrendous things about this film. I am not a Bible thumper, but the story has been written for hundreds of years and for some atheist to take it and twist it just really bothers me. Really do not know why so many people who do not Believe feel so threatened by Christianity. I have no problem with you not believing, but I do have a problem with you taking our religion and twisting it into something it is not, and taking our Book of Faith and rewriting so a point that you are simply making fun of what it says.
Today is a state holiday, Cesar Chavas day. If you can manage to get a job here working for the government. any job, city, county or state you have won the lottery.
This reminds me of the Christian outrage about the film "The Last Temptation of Christ", which the movie begins with a disclaimer that the story is based on a novel and not the gospels. Yet Christians protested, spewed vile statements and wanting it banned from being shown because they were told to by their pastors and Christian radio and television personalities.
It's such a shame that many Christians subscribe to the misplaced notion that everyone fears them, when the opposite is true.
Then you had Christians who cried and passed out watching "The Passion of the Christ", with many saying that they were touch by Jesus himself watching the movie. But they accepted that movie because they were told by their pastors and Christian radio and television personalities to like it.
This reminds me of the Christian outrage about the film "The Last Temptation of Christ", which the movie begins with a disclaimer that the story is based on a novel and not the gospels. Yet Christians protested, spewed vile statements and wanting it banned from being shown because they were told to by their pastors and Christian radio and television personalities.
The most passionate movie lover I've ever met in my life once told me he wished he could un-see The Last Temptation of Christ. He was not a Christian. I took his "advice". I never saw it and I've never had to regret seeing it.
quote
Originally posted by Wichita: It's such a shame that many Christians subscribe to the misplaced notion that everyone fears them, when the opposite is true.
Then you had Christians who cried and passed out watching "The Passion of the Christ", with many saying that they were touch by Jesus himself watching the movie. But they accepted that movie because they were told by their pastors and Christian radio and television personalities to like it.
So now you're a mind reader and an expert on Christia-influenced human behavior? Where did you get your degree?
I do believe in a young earth. I don't know if Pangaea is true science. If it is, does that mean it couldn't have been torn apart by the flood? Again, I don't know. Just throwing thoughts out there.
Dude!
This is the kind of blatant ignorance that annoys people.
If you are going to get into a gunfight you need to have some bullets..
This is the kind of blatant ignorance that annoys people.
If you are going to get into a gunfight you need to have some bullets..
Why? I'm not asking anyone to believe what I believe. I'm not asking you to explain anything to me. My thoughts are my own and I'm glad to share them when I'm asked. All I can suggest is that if you are afraid of my answers, don't ask.
As for being in a gunfight and needing bullets, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything other than it is disrespectful to forum members to insult their belief systems. Also that that disrespect damages and divides our members. It also pushes some members out (Doni) and silences others. These are very detrimental to the life of a forum. We need to ENCOURAGE participation and the expression of various viewpoints. That is my message.
Why? I'm not asking anyone to believe what I believe. I'm not asking you to explain anything to me. My thoughts are my own and I'm glad to share them when I'm asked. All I can suggest is that if you are afraid of my answers, don't ask.
As for being in a gunfight and needing bullets, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything other than it is disrespectful to forum members to insult their belief systems. Also that that disrespect damages and divides our members. It also pushes some members out (Doni) and silences others. These are very detrimental to the life of a forum. We need to ENCOURAGE participation and the expression of various viewpoints. That is my message.
He didn't say you were, but it's still hard to have a serious conversation with someone who doesn't know if Pangea is "true science" but has no problem believing the earth is 6000 years old. And doesn't even know enough to explain how it could happen with any understanding of geology but at the same time has no problem saying it did.
Not saying there can't be respect still, but yeah, it's annoying. Even if it's just your belief, and you aren't trying to force it on anyone, it's just... confusing and strange that you'd willfully look the other way to evidence that points towards other ideas.
Serious question, is the other evidence just created by Satan or demons? Can Satan create or just destroy? I had that mental battle myself and am curious where you stand.
Everyone or at least a great majority of people know that I am no Pro Christian Faith about ANYTHING. So please take these comments with an open mind.
I have skimmed the last few pages and I urge you to do the same, skim the last few pages and look for area's where Boosted resulted in blatant name calling at most he forcefully argued his point of view but did not attack someone else's.
I say let this thread die.
No I don't agree with him, but I am defending him as he seems to be in a one man fight against a mob.
The reason I am defending him is, he has respectfully left me to my beliefs and simply stated his own without telling me that I am wrong for having a 180 degree opposite view as his. Which is the way I truly believe it should be. Do as ye wish so long it harms none.
So can we let this die, let him say he believes he is right, so long as he does not say you are wrong, let this die.
It was a movie for Gods sake. (yes pun intended) It was made to make money, which it obviously did, as many people went to see it. (I Didn't as I chose to go see Need for Speed in 3D, which I actually enjoyed for the racing, plot kind of was 1/2 way though)
Blessed Be, and Peace be with you and all that jazz.
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Why? I'm not asking anyone to believe what I believe. I'm not asking you to explain anything to me. My thoughts are my own and I'm glad to share them when I'm asked. All I can suggest is that if you are afraid of my answers, don't ask.
As for being in a gunfight and needing bullets, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything other than it is disrespectful to forum members to insult their belief systems. Also that that disrespect damages and divides our members. It also pushes some members out (Doni) and silences others. These are very detrimental to the life of a forum. We need to ENCOURAGE participation and the expression of various viewpoints. That is my message.
Hey bud. Trust me. That advice isn't for anyones benefit but your own.
I'm not threatened by your beliefs nor do I feel you are trying to push them on me.
Some more advice. Read a few more books to base your knowledge on.
Everyone or at least a great majority of people know that I am no Pro Christian Faith about ANYTHING. So please take these comments with an open mind.
I have skimmed the last few pages and I urge you to do the same, skim the last few pages and look for area's where Boosted resulted in blatant name calling at most he forcefully argued his point of view but did not attack someone else's.
I say let this thread die.
No I don't agree with him, but I am defending him as he seems to be in a one man fight against a mob.
The reason I am defending him is, he has respectfully left me to my beliefs and simply stated his own without telling me that I am wrong for having a 180 degree opposite view as his. Which is the way I truly believe it should be. Do as ye wish so long it harms none.
So can we let this die, let him say he believes he is right, so long as he does not say you are wrong, let this die.
It was a movie for Gods sake. (yes pun intended) It was made to make money, which it obviously did, as many people went to see it. (I Didn't as I chose to go see Need for Speed in 3D, which I actually enjoyed for the racing, plot kind of was 1/2 way though)
Blessed Be, and Peace be with you and all that jazz.
ya ya. He has kept a VERY controlled tone against "The Mob"
I almost thru out some "mean" stuff, as I would usually do in a religious thread, but, saw how tempered this whole discussion has been.
I am surprised by the lack of the usual "thumpers" not joining in to help him out?
[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 03-31-2014).]
