Not sure if I mentioned it since the project was brought back to life, but the body is from scratch - original design. That being said, ironically the dimensions are almost indentical to their stretched "T". My cowl is longer (extends back further), and the double-hump dash is probably quite a bit more narrow. It's probably about the same width as a normal "T", at the firewall and in back. Because of the length there' plenty of leg room, but the passenger better be cute because she'll be really close.
I like the bronze carbon fiber, except I am not really a fan of the twill pattern for myself. I prefer the old standard weave. They have some stuff I can make use of, maybe not on the Timepiece but on future projects.
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-19-2009).]
I appreciate every single byte of that information too It may not seem like it but a lot is sticking - it just gets reshaped a little sometimes Most importantly, you constantly feeding ideas opens my mind and subtly influences what happens - that's what I was telling you I need. Sometimes I have to make things conform enough to work as a marketing tool, but I need you to make sure I don't get stuck in normality.
Really starting to get into the rendering now. I am working on the dash and controls. I have the switch pod in the center, and started on the steering column/wheel. I haven't made a final decision on what the spokes are going to be though. I want the steering wheel to say "vintage Pontiac" and I am ready to put the spokes in, but am undecided on what spoke...
A couple old Pontiac steering wheels I like:
After the steering wheel is done I'll start on the gauges, then the interior will be almost finished. I don't want the seats to be visible from this angle.
After that, it's figure out what I'm doing for wheels, maybe some eye candy for the left rear brakes, possibly a new background, and move on to some other design stuff. I need to do the front suspension, and finish the rear suspension, in the 3D model.
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-19-2009).]
I just checked http://bmv.ohio.gov/pdf_forms/HSY-7607.pdf and an issue on headlights being that far back "Every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle must be equipped with at least two headlights in working order, one near each side of the front of the motor vehicle." might come up, but nothing about bumpers or fenders. I'm sure you might know more living there and all.
I agree GM, I like that one best too. I adjusted its appearance to fit the Timepiece's mission in life:
I'm thinking about trying a thingamabob like the one in the center of the Cheiftain dash with a "floating ball" compass in the passenger side dash hump. If it works it would compliment the steering wheel, and add to the Pontiac theme...
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-19-2009).]
Little by little, I am starting to clean up some of the details and work on the scale and perspective of the components. I am usually not one to go red, but this looks good to me. I like red, just never seriously considered painting one of my projects that color. Also, I started working on the compass. Considering the Cheiftain, and most vintage cars, would have a clock there I really should too but I just love that ball compass! So, I am thinking about making it both. The floating ball compass in the center, and the clock in the larger space circling it. I am going to try it in the illustration later, but to really get the effect I need to do a 3D model. If I can get what's in my head out it would definitely be a conversation piece.
Yup, gotta have gauges. I still need to do my homework to find out what gauges EVs normally use. I know it'll need a speedo and gauge(s) to monitor the batteries, probably have a tach, and gauges to keep tabs on the temperature of the controller and motor - when I am abusing it. Nice suff in the links you posted, as usual, and it's definitely feeding my creative process.
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-20-2009).]
The perspective is a little off, but I don't have time to correct it right now. I need to leave this rendering alone and do something else, but I can't stop messing with it The idea is for the clock's numbers to appear as if they are floating in air between the front glass and rear surface. I have this idea for spinning clear rings for the hour/second/minute "hands" that have a magnifiying glass section for the time indicators. Slightly magnify the number for seconds, a little more for minutes, and pretty heavy for hours. Get it?
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-20-2009).]
Awesome GM! I wasn't really sure how I was going to make the clock work I just had an idea what I wanted people to see. Maybe I should put aluminum rings around the magnifying spot on each ring, so they look like antique jeweler's eyepieces. Not only would the numbers be floating in mid air, the eyepieces would revolve around them in mid air! The second "hand" should be kind of small and just catch enough of the outside of the numbers to let you find it. The minute "hand" should be about half the size of the numbers so it bloats the middle of the number, but leaves the outside of it normal size. The hour "hand" should bloat the entire number... With the right backlighting this whole pod should be pretty interesting at night. The numbers and eyepieces in the clock would really float in space, with a compass bobbing around in the middle...
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-21-2009).]
Just finished reading through everything...man a lot has happened since page 1. Ive spent 2 terms of school working at D&D classic auto restoration as a designer for custom rebodies, which means I may be able to offer some of my insight
If you click on the "archived news items" on the left it will take you to the Spitfire special that we did there. It is a 1600 HP rolls royce Merlin powered race car from the early 50s. I did not do any of the design work on that, but I did do some work on a second one. It isnt built yet, but probably will be eventually. I also did the design work on the interior of the 1928 Isotta (link is also on the left) as well as the colors/materials inside and out.
I also did a considerable ammount of design work on a 1930 Bentley that is being converted from a sedan to a touring car. Interior and exterior design, as well as a 1910 Stafford, so I have some experience which may help some
Do you have a photo of your car/chassis you are starting with?
and the other question I have is, I see that you really want to do this properly which really excites me, when you were talking before about doing this on a budget It really kinda turned me off to it because I think in order for this to be a complete success it really needs to be well thought out and no corners cut in exchange for getting it on the road quicker. Im wondering what things you have set in stone right now.
If I were approaching this project, the first thing I would do is think of how pontiac would do the 1927 fiero as a production car, THEN hotrod/rat rod it from there. I would do it this way because it breaks the design project into two steps which should be much easier to complete than both at the same time.
[This message has been edited by UCFieroCharger (edited 02-27-2009).]
Originally posted by UCFieroCharger: ...Do you have a photo of your car/chassis you are starting with?...
This crappy cell pic is the best I have right now. The actual car is three hours away at a friend's shop (where I used to live).
quote
Originally posted by UCFieroCharger: ...because I think in order for this to be a complete success it really needs to be well thought out and no corners cut in exchange for getting it on the road quicker. Im wondering what things you have set in stone right now...
Agreed. Before, the 27 was just an idea to have a quick thrown together toy to run around town with - it wasn't supposed to be a serious project. When the circumstances in my life changed, having an extra toy was no longer feasible which is what led to the project being postponed.
Set in stone:
1) The car is first and foremost a marketing tool - convenience and praticality take a backseat to its true purpose. 2) It must be an EV. 3) It must be mid/rear layout. 4) The batteries must be under the floorboards for low cg and polar moment. This also has the side effect of making the body taller, which IMO gives the car more classic proportions - win-win. 5)The electric propulsion system must be visible from some angle. 6) It must have a natural "elegance".
quote
Originally posted by UCFieroCharger: If I were approaching this project, the first thing I would do is think of how pontiac would do the 1927 fiero as a production car, THEN hotrod/rat rod it from there. I would do it this way because it breaks the design project into two steps which should be much easier to complete than both at the same time.
I gave myself total freedom in the "what if" department and connected Fiero DNA with the two-seat, m/r, layout; and Pontiac DNA with the grille, trim, etc. There wasn't much to an actual 1927 Pontiac. They had a pretty bland body, with a mildly distinguishable grille. What I am saying is I did approach it exactly as you would. I studied antique Pontiacs, then gave some thought to what I believed they would have created for a little runabout sporting car. I believe that it would have still been somewhat bland. From there I let my imagination run and followed my original line of thinking that started this project which is something like, "what if Mr. Lamborghini had been born in the late 19th century, moved to America, worked for Pontiac, and developed the Fiero for them in the Roaring 20's?!" My original hypothesis was a bit different, but that's the current "translation".
All that being said, please continue on the train of thought you had in your posts. I just wanted to clue you into the thought processes that led to the current design - along with the circumstances that brought the project back to life - as stated on page 8. I have been really curious to see your interpretation since page 2.
Edited for typos
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-27-2009).]
are you completely sold on that dual bubble/flair dash setup?
I think a single sweep over the top would be more appropriate personally, I have only seen once where someone did a dual bubble like that on a vintage style car and it didnt fit right because it is too complex of a form for that style body. Just my opinion, I also really like this kind of dash with the machine swirls:
Completely sold on it? Not absolutely, but I am heavily biased towards it Partly because I like it, and and also because the forms have already been created.
I have mixed emotions on engine turned panels. I kind of like them, but have never wanted to use them on my projects.
Edit = I figure I might as well make use of this post, instead of leaving it to occupy bandwidth as a mistake...
Some more specifics of the current chassis for you to work off:
> The wheelbase for the current chassis will be about 96-inches, plus or minus a couple inches if absolutely necessary. > The main frame is approximately 20-22" wide at the front, and 38-40" wide at the back of the main body (seating area) > From the front axle center line to the back of the body in the rendering would be approximately 78-80" > The main frame rails are 2x3-inch rectangular tubing, and run from the rear control arm pick-up points to just behind the front axle center line, tapering in as they progress forward. > The chassis is designed so that the main rails are approximately 11-12-inches high at the rear control arms pick-up points, and 9-10 inches off the ground in front. > The battery pack is suspended between the rails and will be cradled by multiple tubular crossmembers that loop from rail to rail under the pack. > The body hangs lower and completely conceals the frame rails. > The ground clearance at the front axle centerline (body panels) will be about 3 inches. > The ground clearance at the back of the body (as shown in the rendering) will be about 4-5 inches depending on what "rake" looks best. > The ground clearance of the frame's crossmembers will be the same as the body, allowing the battery pack to hang down inside the chassis, beneath the floorbards.
Hope all that makes sense...
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-27-2009).]
How about an engine turned panel a few inches behind the dash that supports the steering column and hides the ignition. Just don't make it too tall or you'll bump your shins!
I definitely like some things there. The brakes could open the doors to new opportunities in wheel styling - if they can be pulled off without detracting from the vintage theme.
I like the idea of the head fairings. They're definitely vintage, and would look nice following the double hump dash. The question is whether there is a way to incorporate them into the bucket style body, or whether it's worth considering more drastic measures to work them into the design.
In the beginning, the Timepiece was supposed to have a step-over-and-into race type body. The main reason was so I wouldn't have to do jambs and doors. Now that this project is intended to be a more serious effort, I think I am going for suicide style doors. Even though I want higher performance levels, I am really shooting for a vintage Rolls Royce type "feel". The mental image I use as a measuring stick for working on some elements of the design are of a man in an expensive suit opening the right suicide door for his lady friend. Imagine her in a formal evening gown, stepping up into the car, and tucking her gown inside, as he gently clicks the door shut. Then imagine them gliding away with only the sound of their voices being heard over soft, but full, music from the car's entertainment system.
If that seems out of bounds for a vintage Pontiac, take a good look at what Rad Rides by Troy did with an ordinary old 36 Ford (2007? Ridler winner). The car is so elegant it look like it could have been made by Rolls in 1936. I know I don't have the unlimited, multi-million buck, budget he had but if you don't shoot for the stars....
Originally posted by toddshotrods: If that seems out of bounds for a vintage Pontiac, take a good look at what Rad Rides by Troy did with an ordinary old 36 Ford (2007? Ridler winner). The car is so elegant it look like it could have been made by Rolls in 1936. I know I don't have the unlimited, multi-million buck, budget he had but if you don't shoot for the stars....
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Why have bounds?
That's my motto Thanks for posting the link to First Love, I was too lazy to go get it when I mentioned the car. How about the Ritzow Chrysler? It's supposed to be at Cobo Hall right now!
I've been following your project with alot of interest. I like steampunk and I like retro rods. The more this project evolves though, the more it starts looking like a Dodge Prowler to my eye. Back in the earlier drawings it was more steampunk which I liked somewhat more.
That said, it is better than a Prowler and the artistic merit is going up. Maybe the front grill work could be still steampunk?
Still, good work on it and good luck with getting it completed however you proceed.
I've been following your project with alot of interest. I like steampunk and I like retro rods. The more this project evolves though, the more it starts looking like a Dodge Prowler to my eye. Back in the earlier drawings it was more steampunk which I liked somewhat more.
That said, it is better than a Prowler and the artistic merit is going up. Maybe the front grill work could be still steampunk?
Still, good work on it and good luck with getting it completed however you proceed.
Arn
Thanks. I haven't been posting because I decided to back up a few steps and think about what direction the project was, is, and will be going. I took UCFieroCharger's point about connecting with Pontiac heritage to heart and have been thinking hard about what I have developed so far, both in hard parts and in designs. More details on all this later...
is that pic u posted of your project with modified chevy truck doors?
------------------ DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list
is that pic u posted of your project with modified chevy truck doors?
They're just the outer door and cab corner skins tacked together. Originally I was going to build a modern truck turned into an old school hot rod, but eventually decided against it. Since I already had the truck cab cut up I used the sheetmetal from it as a short cut to set up a buck for developing the one-off car body shape I came up with (the renderings). The truck sheetmetal already has compound curves, but not so much that the door skins couldn't be bent in to comform to the shape of the wooden firewall form. The back has steel reinforcements welded in to hold it in place. The sides of the truck bulged out in the middle, and tucked in at the bottom and belt line (window sill). Vintage car styling is traditionally wide at the belt line and curves down and in to the frame. The steel reinforcements push the cab corners out at the top and tuck the bottom in, creating a vintage shape.
Interestingly, at the time I was dreaming up my modern truck turned street rod, I asked on a traditional hot rod forum what they thought of the idea. They linked me to articles Thom Taylor had running in Rod & Custom aobut the exact same thing! He was using fifties and sixties trucks, whereas I had an eighties model, but he even said in the first article that almost any truck could be used - even eighties models.
------------------ Wyotech Sacramento Alumni. ASE A6, A8, L1 and Certified. CA SMOG License. 1987 Pontiac Fiero GT 5-speed, 102k -Amber- been sitting for 10 years, the resurection has begun! 1987 Pontiac Fiero GT, 151,000 miles!decklid window, More pics of my 87 GT can be found here <-SOLD 1985 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 auto, 222K miles and counting <-recently lost to arson (6yo bro playing with fire) RIP! 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.7L 4x4, 78K <-Daily driver A 4 year olds knowledge of science: No matter how much jello you put into a swimming pool you still can't walk on water.
Taking a few steps back. I started bringing this project back to life with the idea of converting my existing street rod chassis to mid-engine/rear-drive (Fiero) layout by placing the EV motor between the seats. Now, I am thinking about going back to the original Fiero layout of transverse motor behind the seats. It'll be stuck in design for a little while. When I finish my initial "mental processing", I'll eventually start doing some CAD models again to sort out the layout.
The other big issue is I put some serious thought into the feedback UCFieroCharger gave on the design, and decided to heed his words of wisdom. The design as it stands is decent artistically, but it does little to address the concept of being what Pontiac would have built for a Fiero in 1927. The original premise that started this whole idea was, basically, what if Ferruccio Lamborghini had come to America to work for Pontiac in the Roaring 20s, and helped them produce a two-seat, mid-engine, sports car called the Fiero? I want to get back to that, and develop a "real" 1927 Fiero; rather than an interesting original.
I think that was Fast Eddie's truck. (I think that's his name?) There is a thread on this forum about it.
Funny thing is, while doing some research for another project I came across a 27 Pontiac that had just sold! I can't remember how much, but remember thinking it wasn't too high.
I think that was Fast Eddie's truck. (I think that's his name?) There is a thread on this forum about it.
Funny thing is, while doing some research for another project I came across a 27 Pontiac that had just sold! I can't remember how much, but remember thinking it wasn't too high.
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