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1927 Pontiac Fiero by toddshotrods
Started on: 07-14-2007 02:36 PM
Replies: 406 (23606 views)
Last post by: toddshotrods on 06-02-2010 07:35 PM
toddshotrods
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Report this Post01-19-2008 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the input. I think you guys are right. If all goes well I'll have the 3-seater chassis on the jig in a couple weeks, and hope to be driving it this summer. Here's to 1927

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Report this Post01-22-2008 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Started working on the control layout. First step was to do some sketching. A lot of the individual parts have already been fabricated but I wanted to start thinking of how those parts come together to help form the cockpit. I say cockpit because I want it to have a definite aircraft influence.

The steering wheel was first on my agenda. The horn button was scavenged from the Camaro,before I sold it, and I had an idea how I wanted to incorporate it into this project. There is a pic of it in this tread. I have the aluminum for the hub and can't wait to start cutting it. I haven't decided whether or not the spokes will be 3D modeled and CNC cut, or clay modeled and cast; but they will be TIG welded to the hub. The rim is steel, from a 12-inch aftermarket el cheapo steering wheel. I haven't decided whether it will be painted, covered with carbon fiber, or stitched with leather.

The shifter knob and gate plate both exist, and pics of them have also been posted in this thread. The shifter is the one directly under the steering wheel rim and spokes. The other one is the emergency brake. I have already fabricated the aluminum arm and a large ball knob for it, but not the mechanism. I haven't really even given any serious thought to how I am going to make the mechanism. I just want it there. Most of the early twentieth-century vehicles had a bunch of levers and knobs coming up off the floor.

A pic of the pedal assembly was also posted here. The support arm for the steering shaft has also been roughed in already. I still have to turn the piece the sleeve passes through and have it TIG'd on the arm though. It will have an oil-impregnated bronze bushing pressed in either end. The shaft will be stainless.

My thinking for the overall look, right now, is to "float" all these fabricated aluminum parts over a sculptured carbon fiber tub that extends about halfway up to the top of the body. The top half would be painted and/or leather covered. Just thoughts right now that need to be sketched and modeled to work out.

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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post03-06-2008 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierohobbySend a Private Message to fierohobbyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What's the latest? Any info?

-fh
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Gokart Mozart
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post03-07-2008 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohobby:

What's the latest? Any info?

-fh

Bad news. I had to sell all the powertrains (complete 4&6 cyl and the N* motor). I have to face the possibility that the chassis may end up being sold as well, and the opportunities for that are better if it's a conventional front-engine street rod with a more traditional body. Sorry guys, but it looks like another one bites the dust.
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Report this Post03-07-2008 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, that sucks.
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The Poopsmith
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Report this Post03-08-2008 01:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The PoopsmithSend a Private Message to The PoopsmithEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Shoot well if nothing else it was a lot of fun to dream about.
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post03-08-2008 02:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It really does suck. I have a LOT of time invested in this project, and all I can do is consider it "practice". Ideal solution would be for someone else to take the ball and run with it from here. I would be willing to set up a chassis with the narrowed Fiero front susp shown in this thread and Fiero rear susp relatively cheap if someone would keep the dream alive. The 27 deserves to live!
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Erik
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Report this Post03-08-2008 05:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
with your creative genius You should be able to find a sponsor but then again Fiero financial backers are few and far inbetween
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post03-08-2008 11:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Even with financial backing I couldn't invest the time to do the project. The circumstances in my life that made it possible for me to do this project changed without warning, and I am just finally coming to terms with it and making some hard decisions. I can still provide someone with a rolling chassis and a lot of creative knowledge, if they want to keep the dream alive. There's a narrow window for that though, cuz I have to finish "purging" my shop soon.
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post03-08-2008 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just in case someone is actually entertaining the idea, if you keep it simple (which I didn't do) the car could be built reasonably cheap and relatively easily. The front susp is almost done, and by using the factory struts in back that would be done. Use a 'glass T-bucket body and track nose and the body is pretty much there. Most of your time would be spent on final details, instead of making stuff from scratch.
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post01-27-2009 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just reminiscing...
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Report this Post01-30-2009 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, I finally managed to escape the valley of death I had called home my entire life and, almost two months into my new life, my head is clearing. I am beginning to see things from a new perspective. One of the main things I have been doing is figuring out which things from my past I want, and which I want to leave in my dust. One thing I realized is I absolutely LOVE this forum! I also realized that I want to be an active part of the community, and the "27" is my way of doing that and still maintaining my focus in business. I just couldn't see how to make that happen before.

In December I started making PFF a part of my daily life again and racking my brain planning my road ahead. I am happy to say, I have found my way! I have a plan to finish the 27 using the street rod I kept. I will reveal more of the details over the coming days and weeks, but I wanted to get the ball rolling with this:

This Photochop rendering is based on a photo of the actual car. The car, like the rendering, is not finished but it does already exist. It is currently back in my old hometown, at a friend's shop. I'm working on getting it here, so I can resume working on it. To get it on track to fulfilling the mission of the 27 I came up with this track nose style front end, that is very similar to the one I posted on the first page of this thread. That nose will replace the SBC that currently dominates the front end of the car, now that the motor is getting moved back to its rightful place. I will probably start on the track nose before the car gets here. I just have to get some measurements off the body and chassis so I can set up a buck and start sculpting.

So, how do you like my 1927 Aero Notchy

More details, more work on the rendering, more pics to come...
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Report this Post01-30-2009 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotazClick Here to Email FierotazSend a Private Message to FierotazEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The rendering looks very nice...I have this in my favorites and look forward to seeing the finished car!

Good to see you came back and plan on hanging around.

------------------

Chop Top 13 Revitalization

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JRP3
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Report this Post01-30-2009 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JRP3Click Here to visit JRP3's HomePageSend a Private Message to JRP3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This will be interesting
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Report this Post01-30-2009 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero2m8Click Here to visit Fiero2m8's HomePageSend a Private Message to Fiero2m8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad to see it didn't die!
Gokart Mozart, where are you?
The project is back on - you post and I'll watch

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Indy Northstar-Stretch ~ LT1-NOS Roadster

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toddshotrods
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Report this Post01-30-2009 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys. Just a quick note so everyone's up to speed - this time I am not trying to build a rat rod or budget project. The Timepiece is now the center of my universe. I plan to pour everything I've got into it, and when it asks for more I will work harder to make more money, increase my skills - whatever it takes to make it a sexy lil'...


...as for the Mozart of Gokarts - I have the sneaking suspicion he'll be around

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 01-30-2009).]

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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post01-30-2009 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
keep sneaking...
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post01-30-2009 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Quick, cue the Mission Impossible theme song...

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 01-30-2009).]

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Report this Post01-30-2009 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Which one? tv or movie?
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post01-30-2009 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The TV version is a classic, but I gotta go with the Movie version. When it came on I smiled, grabbed an open-end/box wrench, barrel-rolled across the floor, jumped up and started running out to the shop - screeech!

I forgot, I sold the shop and the car is still three hours away in storage.

Better stick with the pencil-n-paper, mouse-n-software, for now we need a plan...

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 01-30-2009).]

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The Poopsmith
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Report this Post01-30-2009 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The PoopsmithSend a Private Message to The PoopsmithEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sweet! Thanks for the PM on this project. I am happy to see this project make it's revival and from what I see it's going to be excellent. Go Todd Go
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post01-31-2009 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by The Poopsmith:
Sweet! Thanks for the PM on this project...



 
quote
Originally posted by The Poopsmith:
...from what I see it's going to be excellent...

Thanks, wait 'til you see what you don't see


 
quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:
...I read about "steampunk"...One type of "steampunking" applies old technology to modern ideas, kind of like this:

...

I revisted the original post and, while the budget rat rod thing is out, a slight (but very tasteful) steampunk influence will still be there. It's just what the project is and always was. As I was reading that post I was looking at some of the sketches I've been working on over the past year and even though I wasn't actively thinking, "make it steampunk", it's in all of them. This project seems to have a life all its own. When I lose my way, it seems to always be around the corner waiting for me to catch up.
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tednelson83
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well, im loving the ideas so far!
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-01-2009 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome, as usual, GM I was working on some sketches last night wondering if my preference for natural-finish aluminum parts was going to work and you worked your research magic! The interior of that car is A-W-E-S-O-M-E ! I have plans for toggle switches and have been mentally chewing on what I want them to look like. The switches in that car are incredible! I'm not going to copy them, but they will definitely help spark my creativity. I might do something really similar to the indicator lamps over the switches though.

Back to the drawing board, literally...

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-01-2009).]

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I know you guys prefer the Pegasus, but I need the Indian head up front. I plan to copy the Indian head from the old nickels. It's barely noticeable but the date is on it, like it would be on the coin - only I changed from nineteen-thirties to '27, of course. The Indian head grille, hood molding, and lower "bumper", will all be aluminum. The mesh behind the head will be aluminum or stainless - black anodized or black chrome plated. A combination of hand-cut, CNC-machine, and hammerform, techniques combined with TIG welding. Basically hundreds of hours...

The Pegasus logo will be on the car. The two locations I have in mind are the fuel filler or the horn button, but I haven't done any sketches yet.

As far as the front suspension. I have a couple plans for a straight-axle style IFS. The one I would really like to do is pretty radical and really fits the theme of the vehicle, but I haven't done a cost/time analysis yet to determine is it's even possible/feasible. The simple one is just a twin-beam straight axle, like the old Ford trucks used to have - and like Flaming River now sells for street rods.

Finally, I am also chewing on an idea for the hideaway lights that will also incorporate the mirrors. The basic idea is for units that look like trim pieces (when in the "off" position) on the sides of the nose, that revolve like an old department store door to reveal the fore/aft guides. This is another part I have to do some serious sketching, maybe some 3D models, and then the cost/time analysis. They would involve significant CNC machine time ($$$) but from what I see in my noggin, they would be awesome!

More to come...

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-01-2009).]

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Report this Post02-01-2009 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
trivia

http://autos.aol.com/articl...20070727133109990001
For its part, "General Motors" almost didn't get the name it bears today. Durant actually incorporated his company under the name International Motors Co., in New Jersey in 1908. But his attorney advised him that it would be easier to raise capital under a new name.

"We might use 'United Motors Company' were it not for the fact that there is already a United Motor Car Company in that state," the attorney wrote. "We suggest the name General Motors Company, as we have ascertained it can be used."

------

Did you know we have Cadillac to thank for the birth of Pontiac? Actually, we have many people to thank for the birth of Pontiac, but the story begins with two gentlemen – Edward Murphy and Alanson Brush.

Murphy was the founder of Pontiac Buggy Company in Pontiac, Michigan which produced horse-drawn carriages, and was looking to evolve into the automotive age. Brush, who was responsible for the design of early Cadillacs, later became an engineering consultant in Detroit. When the two met in 1906, Brush showed Murphy his design for a small two-cylinder car that Cadillac had rejected. Murphy bought Brush’s automotive idea, and decided it should carry the name “Oakland” as did his horse-drawn vehicles.

During the summer of 1907, Murphy organized the Oakland Motor Car Co. His lack of sales with the Oakland, a two cylinder vertical engine that rotated counterclockwise, convinced him that Cadillac might have been right in rejecting the Brush design. In 1909, a line of 40-hp four-cylinder cars with sliding-gear transmissions was introduced, and more successful. Unfortunately, Edward Murphy didn’t see the increased sales due to his sudden death in 1908.

Shortly before his passing, Murphy had met with another former buggy man named William C. Durant. Soon afterwards, Oakland became part of Durant’s General Motors Empire and its design would evolve under his rule. Oaklands most recognized model was produced in 1924, the “True Blue Oakland Six” which came with a new L-head engine, four-wheel brakes, centralized controls and an automatic spark advance, and painted with a Blue Duco nitro-cellulose lacquer.

In 1926, Alfred R. Glancy, Oakland’s assistant general manager introduced the Pontiac - a quality six cylinder engine car designed to sell for the price of a four. This new “companion car to the Oakland was an instant success and Pontiac had been born!

-------

http://www.conceptcarz.com/...-Buggy-Runabout.aspx
The owners of the Pontiac Springs and Wagon Works of Pontiac, Michigan started building rapid trucks in 1904. By 1907, they decided to also produce an automobile, the 'Pontiac.' A prototype was displayed at the Grand Central Palace Exhibition of the Carriage Dealers Association in October, 1907. In 1908, after fewer than 40 cars were built, the Pontiac Springs and Wagon Works sold its building and part of its equipment to the Motorcar Company makers of the Cartercar. Correspondence from 1929 indicates that General Motors management was not aware of this earlier Pontiac when they named their new car in 1926.

____

If you really want history, http://www.amazon.com/exec/...207/carlytheautow-20

-------

logos and hood ornaments
http://www.allamericanoakla...ocuments/emblems.htm
http://motors.shop.ebay.com...d+ornament&_osacat=0

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 02-01-2009).]

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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post02-02-2009 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:

Finally, I am also chewing on an idea for the hideaway lights that will also incorporate the mirrors. The basic idea is for units that look like trim pieces (when in the "off" position) on the sides of the nose, that revolve like an old department store door to reveal the fore/aft guides. This is another part I have to do some serious sketching, maybe some 3D models, and then the cost/time analysis. They would involve significant CNC machine time ($$$) but from what I see in my noggin, they would be awesome!

More to come...



I think of the semaphore turn signals on old Bugs http://www.oldbug.com/323%20018.jpg Mount the mirrors on the flat edge, Headlights would be HID with ballist inside. The mirrors are just for legal purposes, right?
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Report this Post02-02-2009 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
...The mirrors are just for legal purposes, right?

Bingo!

 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
...Headlights would be HID with ballist inside...

That really has my attention - just imagining the possibilities, if that means what it sounds like. I'll look into it more later today...

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-02-2009).]

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Starting to work out the switch design. This is the lowest part of the dash, where its asymmetrical "humps" meet and extend down into a curved switch panel. The actual panel, in this sketch, is a CNC'd aluminum panel with raised sections for each switch group. The group consists of a miniature baseball bat levered toggle, and an illuminated glass globe indicator. The lever would be made of exotic hardwood screwed onto the aluminum toggle section, that is is the center of the hemispherical lower shape. The glass globe is clear, and covers a symbol screenprinted on a flat LED indicator lamp.

An incredible amount of work and detail in each section of the panel, that would hopefully give it a handcrafted, upscale, appearance.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-02-2009).]

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Report this Post02-02-2009 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forget about hiding it in the body, hide it plain sight, steampunk style
Stick the ballast in something like http://www.drillspot.com/pi.../2473/247339_300.jpg with the mirror on top.
Have a working oversize gear http://www.copper.org/resou...cations-figure12.jpg that opens the panel with the headlight on it
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-02-2009 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

Forget about hiding it in the body, hide it plain sight, steampunk style
Stick the ballast in something like http://www.drillspot.com/pi.../2473/247339_300.jpg with the mirror on top.
Have a working oversize gear http://www.copper.org/resou...cations-figure12.jpg that opens the panel with the headlight on it


That's too much steampunk for me. I just want a slight influence. I love the idea for the HID lights wit hidden ballast though. I was trying to design an assembly that would hide the whole thing, which was making it much larger than it needs to be.

I am shooting for somewhere in between the modern theme of not seeing any of the function of parts, and the steampunk idea of seeing everything. For example, on my toggle switch you can see the that the aluminum mechanism pivots in the hemisphere, but you can't see the contacts and springs; whereas on a modern switch all you see is the handle poking out of a hole. It's just a little more functionality on the surface, and a great deal of extra work to make it look like an antique part. Hope that makes sense.

Keep it coming though, you're definitely feeding the fire My switch design came from you posting the link with the steampunk supercar. I was just going to poke a handle out of a hole...
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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post02-03-2009 05:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Haven't stopped yet! I'm glad you like my ideas, even if they become yours. Every failure is just one step closer to success!

headlights? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...39809#ht_5218wt_1351

I thought the real steampunk wasn't what you're looking for, just influenced by. Take the extreme and smooth and streamline it.
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-03-2009 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
...I thought the real steampunk wasn't what you're looking for, just influenced by. Take the extreme and smooth and streamline it.

Exactly.

I like those headlights. I've seen them on an older hot rod before but can't remember which one. I have way too many pics saved to try to find it right now. So is that just a bulb, with a separate ballast needed?

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JRP3
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Report this Post02-03-2009 09:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JRP3Click Here to visit JRP3's HomePageSend a Private Message to JRP3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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* Real Xenon Upgrade, Real 8000K Xenon HID Bulbs with Ballasts. We have Professionally Pre-installed Xenon HID in the headlights for you.
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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post02-03-2009 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
More art deco concealed headlights
1938 Buick Y-Job http://www.topspeed.com/car...k-y-job-ar10584.html
1941 Chrysler Thunderbolt http://www.autoweteran.gowe...sler_Thunderbolt.jpg

How about a panel that raises/lowers in the body and out pops this

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 02-03-2009).]

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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-03-2009 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by JRP3:...Xenon HID Bulbs with Ballasts...

Thanks, I missed that

When I get some time, I'll do a sketch to show you what I had in mind. Rather than having a body panel like the two cars you mentioned, I was planing on making the assembly look like a piece of trim on the side of the track nose.

I had considered HID before but never thought of the possibility of having a separate ballast. These are the units I had been considering but (without the reflector) they are already 4.5" deep. If I made my own reflector I could reduce the diameter but it would still make the whole assembly a bit larger than I had planned. If the ballast can be separated from the bulb, I have almost total freedom.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-03-2009).]

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