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1927 Pontiac Fiero by toddshotrods
Started on: 07-14-2007 02:36 PM
Replies: 406 (23615 views)
Last post by: toddshotrods on 06-02-2010 07:35 PM
Gokart Mozart
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quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:

When I get some time, I'll do a sketch to show you what I had in mind. Rather than having a body panel like the two cars you mentioned, I was planing on making the assembly look like a piece of trim on the side of the track nose.



One of my thoughts is something like a 1963 Vette but mounted on the side vertically. The mirrors are on a track that slides straight out while the headlights open. The headlight trim would look like a vent like the engine vents on http://oldcarandtruckpictur...r_by_Pininfarina.jpg
rims http://www.autoblog.com/pho...-37a-grand-prix-car/

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 02-03-2009).]

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Report this Post02-03-2009 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroboomClick Here to visit fieroboom's HomePageClick Here to Email fieroboomSend a Private Message to fieroboomEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you ever thought about incorporating a hint of Fiero on the front end?

------------------
Journal of a concept: http://southeastfieros.com >>> Build Thread >>> Parts thread (for project funding)

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quote
Originally posted by fieroboom:
Have you ever thought about incorporating a hint of Fiero on the front end?...

Occasionally, but it detracts from the vintage effect. I am going to great lengths to try and capture the essence of the Roaring Twenties automobile industry, and custom tricks from different eras along the way, in the car. There were some sketches posted by Poopsmith early on of a "rodded" Fiero body that I really like - it just didn't meet my needs...

Had to see them close together - I like your idea and work! Somebody build that car (Fieroboom's version)! I can show you how to do it pretty cheap

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-03-2009).]

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I cheated and used one of the Indian Head logos I had saved. I still have to find some time to sketch the "on" version, but this gives the general idea of what I am thinking about.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-03-2009).]

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quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:

Occasionally, but it detracts from the vintage effect. I am going to great lengths to try and capture the essence of the Roaring Twenties automobile industry, and custom tricks from different eras along the way, in the car. There were some sketches posted by Poopsmith early on of a "rodded" Fiero body that I really like - it just didn't meet my needs...

Had to see them close together - I like your idea and work! Somebody build that car (Fieroboom's version)! I can show you how to do it pretty cheap



Yeah, I shoulda read all the pages, but I got the idea, got excited, drew it up and posted it... Sorry! Couldn't help it!
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toddshotrods
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quote
Originally posted by fieroboom:
...Sorry! Couldn't help it!

No apology necessary - I like it! I hope it inspires someone to build it. That would be a sweet project. Here's the "how":
    * Find a donor Fiero
    * Weld a couple steel "stringers" between the cradle and front suspension to serve as an impromptu chassis jig
    * Drop the rear cradle (with complete powetrain, harness, etc.) and front suspension assembly
    * Order this body and a bunch of fiberglass supplies
    * Cut the front fenders off, foam it in, carve your new nose, glass it in, sand and itch...
    * Use wood, steel, and foam, to form your interior shapes, glass 'em in
    * stand back, stare, and smile
    * Pull the body off, get rid of all the bucks, trim and re-fit the body
    * Fab the real chassis, with strut and shock mounts, etc
    * stand back, stare, and smile
    * Get excited and start on a mad dash to get everything hooked up to take your first ride in your new Fierobra!
    * Pull it all back apart and start painting and detailing everything
    * Put it back together
    * Get some upholstery
    * Get some new shoes (wheels-n-tires)
    * stand back, stare, and smile

See, wasn't that easy? Actually, this would be an awesome project for someone to have Archie build - hint, hint

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-03-2009).]

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This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
Thinking out loud... I know the mirror is aimed at the body - I have a while before the first ride to get it straightened out

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-03-2009).]

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Didn't like the flip down, so I made the mechanism ridiculously complex.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
Indian Head trim flips up and into the body (hinged at the top), and then the light/mirror assembly flips up and out into view from inside - mounted to a billet plate that fills the opening.

If the GIF animation makes you dizzy here are the plain pics

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-03-2009).]

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Added the side trim to the 3/4-view rendering:

I am going to start putting some time into this rendering now, to get a good look at what the final product should be. After I get the body finished I will start experimenting with colors. Right now, I am leaning towards the blackish-brown color, called Marrone Apus, from the Lambo Reventon. I haven't checked into it yet to see if anyone has the code to mix it.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-04-2009).]

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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post02-04-2009 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What about angling the trim up to match the angle of the body and wing?

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 02-04-2009).]

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quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

What about angling the trim up to match the angle of the body and wing?


I'll give that a try later.

I also added the right side headlight to the pic and animation ^^^ Small detail, but it bugged me looking at the car with one headlight - like a pirate with a patch on his right eye.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-04-2009).]

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quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
What about angling the trim up to match the angle of the body and wing?

Good eye - guess that's why I pay you the big bucks

I like it - adds a sense of motion and speed.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-04-2009).]

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quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:

Didn't like the flip down, so I made the mechanism ridiculously complex.
Indian Head trim flips up and into the body (hinged at the top), and then the light/mirror assembly flips up and out into view from inside - mounted to a billet plate that fills the opening.

If the GIF animation makes you dizzy here are the plain pics



Gonna be a pain but could you make it with 3 steps between full open and full closed?
I'm thinking of what it'll look like with a comparison of a car window rolling (or 2, one for the emblem and one for the headlight) or a garage door or something else.
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Gokart Mozart

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quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:
I like it - adds a sense of motion and speed.


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quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
Gonna be a pain but could you make it with 3 steps between full open and full closed?...

It's not a pain - it's a challenge and I LOVE challenges! This car is supposed to be a rolling example of my abilities. If I don't challenge myself with it now, I am cheating myself in the end. I might be able to do it with two steps, depending on the curvature of the part and geometry of the mechanism. More like a modern retractable hardtop.
    Step 1 - the Indian Head pivots up into the body, with that nice little electric motor whiring sound.
    Step 2 - the Guidance assembly, as I call it, pivots up and out into the atmosphere from inside the body, and under the opening. Aforementioned whirring present again.


Procedure simply reverses itself to close. I'm actually pretty decent with mechanisms like this.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-04-2009).]

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quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:





Could you add the mirrors and lights here?
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As soon as I can toss an extra ball into my juggling act...
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If my bank account was fat enough I would have Archie build me a matching, stretched, chop-top, aero, notchie to tow the 27 around the country and keep it company at events
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quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:

If my bank account was fat enough I would have Archie build me a matching, stretched, chop-top, aero, notchie to tow the 27 around the country and keep it company at events



 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:



Archie


Yea, I'm bad.
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Report this Post02-04-2009 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JRP3Click Here to visit JRP3's HomePageSend a Private Message to JRP3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see some interesting things
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Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:


Yea, I'm bad.


Not enough to tempt me. I was just being silly - I know better. It took me two almost years to get enough irons out of the fire to save my sanity - okay, okay maybe sanity wasn't mine to save, you know what I mean!
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toddshotrods

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quote
Originally posted by JRP3:

I see some interesting things

Keep it up and it's time-out for you mister
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quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
Could you add the mirrors and lights here?


Quick Photochop, just to get a sense of what it will look like...

Wow, I just realized a crossed the thousand post mark

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-04-2009).]

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A quick look before I really dig into the rendering. I did a little chassis work and, of course, changed the background. From here I start working out the details of the body so we can finally see this thing in full color.

After the body is done I am also going to start experimenting with the wheel/tire setup. The wheels in the rendering are just there to piece it together. The rear wheels are actually what's on the car (though you can barely tell what they are in the crappy photo I started with) - 15x10-inch, U.S. Wheel, stock car, steel wheels. Right now they have 13.5x29.0-inch stock car tires to get the car mocked up. The rear tires in the rendering are Mickey Thompson 315/60R15 ET Street Radials, which is what I plan to replace the stock car tires with when I get the car registered and ready for the street. On the front I just used a pic of a BFG Touring T/A (I think the rim was in the pic I used). The car has no front wheels right now, because I cut the front suspension off to re-do it. I was setting it up for 185/70R14's because I wanted a staggered big-n-little combination. I am just going to use a couple 14-inch, steel, fwd, rims with the Fiero knuckles to start building the front suspension. I really wanted the staggered (15 & 14-inch) setup but I can't find a v-rated 14-inch tire the right size. I can move up to a 195/60R15 but I lose the stagger...

If you're wondering why I am trying to use 15 & 14's when the rest of the world is trying to fit as big a rim as possible, I just like the way the big puffy 15's look on the car. The huge rear rubber is a styling element of the car. It adds to the vintage/performance look. The other reason is I was going to use stock car style wide-five rims, though I would have to do a custom setup to have this with 14's on the front. I am going to try huge (20-22) rear rims that are a bit too wide for the tires to give the rolled edge look, and see if I can pull off a modern horse-drawn carriage wheel effect. That would allow me to do the same on the front with 17 or 18-inch rims and 205mm section width tires.
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So, here's the BIG news story:

We (Gokart Mozart, JRP3, and I) have been holding out on the juiciest part of the plan - the 27 is going green! After my thread on hybrids, JRP3's electric Fiero build thread, and the Advanced Propulsion thread, I was sold on the premise of electric propulsion being our future. That's what led to the rebirth of the 27, because I decided to convert my street rod to electric; and then realized that I could put the motor back in its proper place!

So, this is the plan. The 27 will be a true m/r vehicle because the electric motor will be right between the seats! That's what you see in the rendering under the wing. The electric motor will turn a carbon fiber driveshaft, that will in turn spin the Winters Pro V8 quick change rear end. With the motor between the seats, and the battery pack under the floorboards, the 27 should have excellent weight distribution and a really low Cg. That means this project is not only the rebirth of the 27, but it is also the fulfillment of a dream I had when I first came to this community - for a stretched out, mid-engine, exotic supercar style Fiero - it's just a bit more "mature" than the original concept. Imagine if this car has been produced in 1927, it would have been as crazy as the Countach was in 1971!
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Report this Post02-12-2009 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JRP3Click Here to visit JRP3's HomePageSend a Private Message to JRP3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Even crazier since it's using technology that didn't exist at all
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quote
Originally posted by JRP3:

Even crazier since it's using technology that didn't exist at all


They had electric vehicles back then
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Report this Post02-12-2009 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JRP3Click Here to visit JRP3's HomePageSend a Private Message to JRP3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
But no lithium batteries and no PWM controllers. Back then it just would have been another slow electric vehicle getting blown away by gassers, but not any more
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Report this Post02-12-2009 06:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
misconception

http://www.econogics.com/ev/evhistry.htm

The range issue is largely a matter of perception. Early in the 20th century, electric cars were the range champions. A B.G.S. electric car had established a one-charge range of 180 miles in 1899 in France. Common production electric cars could easily travel upwards of 40 miles between charges, and upwards of 100 miles a day with the proper infrastructure in place. A horse and wagon would have to stop about every 10 to 12 miles for rest and water in the same distance, a journey that would typically take about 2 hours. A steam car was generally limited to 10 to 15 miles before having to stop for water (usually at a horse trough), and perhaps four times that distance before stopping for fuel. The early gasoline cars also had to stop frequently to add water for engine cooling, and also took advantage of horse watering troughs (where they were allowed to do so - the noisy cars often frightened the horses). This was not seen as a major disadvantage for the gasoline cars of the time, they were generally in need of some minor repair or adjustment after 20 miles of travel. Having built several million of them since then, the automotive industry has improved reliability in the intervening 80 or 90 years.

The average car in North America in the 1990's is driven less than 19,000 kilometres (12,000 miles) per year. This comes out to an average of about 50 kilometres (32 miles) per day, well within the capabilities of the average do-it-yourself conversion using lead-acid batteries. Many cars, especially second or third vehicles in a household used primarily for commuting travel even less. Many of these vehicles could be replaced by electric cars using current, off-the-shelf and economical technology. Hybrid technologies can resolve the range issue for any driving pattern in the short-term, and advances in battery technology, charging facilities and fuel cells will resolve the matter in the longer term. Advanced batteries (e.g. nickel-metal-hydride) have taken electric cars to one-charge ranges over 400 miles in recent years. Other technologies (e.g. lithium polymer) may do better still.

Electric cars were just as fast as the gasoline cars of the period. Electric cars held the world land speed records from 1898 to 1902, beating out steam and gasoline-powered vehicles. (When the record was taken away from the electrics in 1902, it was not by a gasoline-powered car, but by a steamer.) In the early 1990's, one automotive executive from Ford ridiculed the 1912 Baker Electric for having a top speed of 35 mph, conveniently forgetting that the Model T of the same vintage could not go any faster - and the Model T had to back up many hills because its gravity-fed fuel system would fail if the rear-mounted fuel-tank ended up lower than the engine while climbing the hill while going forward. The Jenatzy achieved an officially recorded speed of 106 km/h (about 66 mph) in 1899.
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^^^ Just proving why he's the King of Research... ^^^
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quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

misconception



Not for 1927. I'll stand by my statement.
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Report this Post02-14-2009 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That reminds me of:
D.A. Jim Trotter: Now, uh, Ms. Vito, being an expert on general automotive knowledge, can you tell me... what would the correct ignition timing be on a 1955 Bel Air Chevrolet, with a 327 cubic-inch engine and a four-barrel carburetor?
Mona Lisa Vito: It's a b******* question.

The electric car was in it's decline and the rich were the ones buying them, but not for long.

quick wiki clip:
The decline of the electric vehicle was brought about by several major developments:
By the 1920s, America had a better system of roads that now connected cities, bringing with it the need for longer-range vehicles.
The discovery of Texas crude oil reduced the price of gasoline so that it was affordable to the average consumer.
The invention of the electric starter by Charles Kettering in 1912 eliminated the need for the hand crank.
The initiation of mass production of internal combustion engine vehicles by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely available and affordable in the $500 to $1,000 price range.
By contrast, the price of the less efficiently produced electric vehicles continued to rise. In 1912, an electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a gasoline car sold for $650.
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-18-2009 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, we made the Construction Zone! How about a little celebration with an updated rendering?

I did a quick "off the top of my head" test of the Lambo Reventon Marrone Apus color and had to stop to run some errands. I was going to do a few more colors when I got home but when I opened the file I found out I didn't save the last version I have to redo the center of the dash, where the humps meet and extend down into the body, but most of it is still there.

I also tried a trunk instead of the wing. The aluminum piece on the rear is the charging port. The black lid in the center would be carbon fiber with an aluminum Pegasus logo on it.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 02-18-2009).]

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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-18-2009 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Getting back to where I was, a couple more colors:

Military-style green


Copper


Everything's in "suede" paint because one, I wanted to see it old school and two, I don't feel like doing the reflections for gloss paint right now.

Any color requests?
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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post02-19-2009 08:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now you have a place for the extension cord!
I like the copper but with a twist: http://www.kneedraggers.com...f5ea876a_refined.jpg
LEDs for tail and brake lights
http://www.chromeglow.com/index.asp?category=21162
front turn signal
http://www.chromeglow.com/index.asp?category=16864
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-19-2009 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
Now you have a place for the extension cord! ...


LOL! Actually, finding room for all the electronic gadgetry is going to be a challenge. That little trunk is probably going to be stuffed with the guts of a battery charger (no factory cases allowed).
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-19-2009 11:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Latest version of the chassis model has the battery pack extending all the way to the front axle. There are 94 100ah cells in the main pack now - on target for neck-snapping performance! Plus, the bulk of the weight is as low as possible and spread pretty evenly from axle to axle.

Mid-motor/rear-drive, low polar moment, fun!!!
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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post02-19-2009 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you plan on stretching the body?
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post02-19-2009 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't understand what you mean - stretching it where, how?
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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post02-19-2009 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
like http://californiacustomroadsters.com/cacr2.html
1923 SMOOTH "T" BUCKET BODY - The Limousine of "T" Bodies Stretched 8 Inches. .......If you need your space, CCR has what you're looking for-our Smooth 'T' body is a full 8" longer than standard 'T' bodies. It is 5 inches longer in the passenger area and 3 inches in the cowl.
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