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1927 Pontiac Fiero by toddshotrods
Started on: 07-14-2007 02:36 PM
Replies: 406 (23608 views)
Last post by: toddshotrods on 06-02-2010 07:35 PM
Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post07-31-2007 06:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Who says the radiator has to sit square in the front? Mount it sideways with the base on the drivers side and the top on the passenger side (or reverse). Nothing else is going there and with a pusher as well as a pull fan, that should draw enough air.

Try http://www.europaspares.com/
they have an ebay store

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 07-31-2007).]

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toddshotrods
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Report this Post07-31-2007 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, even sideways, there isn't enough room. The nose/hood section is pretty small, and that is a feature I really want so I have to find a way to work around it. I was going to put the battery up there to move some weight forward, and with the pedals and steering stuff I don't think there will be any room.

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-31-2007).]

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Report this Post07-31-2007 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What about making it the hood? Put it on top with a screen over it.
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Report this Post07-31-2007 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What dimensions are you looking at?

03-05 SUBARU IMPREZA WRX/STi All Aluminum high flow racing Radiator

- Size Measurement (whole radiator): Height: 16 1/4" Width: 27 1/2" Inlet: 1 1/2" Outlet: 1 1/2"
Mount the radiator from the bottom of the frame to save a couple more inches.

http://www.vulcanfinnedtube..._&_Services_Home.htm
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post07-31-2007 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can get a Scirocco-style drag racing radiator that is 22x13.25x3 for $240, from Summit.

I'll check dimensions on the model when I get a chance to see if it will fit under the hood/nose...

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Report this Post08-01-2007 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Scirocco style radiator will fit, without interfering with the steering and pedals. I just have to add $250 to the budget. Just getting the car together, running, registered, and on the street is really cheap because of the rat rod thing; and the fact that I have so many of the parts already. Following GM's parts bin philosophy is what made this idea feasible.

    * $ 250 - steel tubing, and fabrication supplies (for chassis)
    * $ 750 - body, track nose, fiberglass and fabrication supplies (for developing and mounting body)
    * $ 750 - mechanical (radiator, trans cooler, front calipers, brake pads, lines, wiring, etc)
    * $ 750 - for what I forgot in the above, and some of the things I want...
    *$2500.


Sounds incredibly low huh?! I actually rounded up the prices of everything. I have enough of the parts I need, and I fabricate a lot of parts that are normally purchased. With the latest, exposed-engine, body plan I can build the car really fast. As mentioned, the rat rod thing helps...

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-01-2007).]

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Report this Post08-01-2007 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wish I lived closer...
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toddshotrods
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Report this Post08-01-2007 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Compared to where I want to be (Cali) in a few years, we're practically neighbors now I am planning on putting my current house/shop up for sale, and moving my business to a more public location later this year or early next year. Then after my wife finishes school, I want to move West. I'll probably keep the shop I plan to buy here as a fail-safe in case times get hard out there and I need to come back and regroup. My long-range plan is to live the second half (hopefully ) of my life in California though.

I wish I had come up with this (Timepiece) car plan sooner because I could have set SEMA as a goal for this car. I would have to sell the Camaro right now to make it this year, and it's nowhere near ready to be sold...

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-01-2007).]

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Report this Post08-01-2007 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We'll be almost neighbors there, too! I plan on moving out west in maybe 5 years but not to Cali, too expensive. Let's see what the fall has in store, maybe I can see you then.
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Report this Post08-01-2007 11:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fall sounds good, and after that I am determined to make it to the Detroit Autorama next spring - with a vehicle in the show! I would love to have Timepiece in the basement, but will "settle" for the Camaro upstairs if I must If all else fails, I'll be there as a spectator...

While we're on the subject - where are you thinking about moving to (out West)?

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-02-2007).]

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Report this Post08-01-2007 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll definitely see you at Autorama, it's 40 minutes away. I don't know where out west, maybe Arizona or New Mexico but it's just an idea right now.
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Report this Post08-02-2007 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds good for Detroit. My nephew lives in Vegas, and I thought about moving there but he said the custom automotive scene isn't what I am looking for. I would rather live in a closet and have access to the right market than go through this again. I know there are other places in the country, but my heart has been aching to be in the LA area for most of my life.

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Report this Post08-02-2007 01:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

toddshotrods

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I was thinking through the plans, and realized that I was planning to use the five-spoke aluminum wheels simply because I have them. While they eliminated the need to buy something, in the long run they would cause me to burn much more energy than necessary; trying to make them "belong". The best solution is a set of factory steel wheels, with a vintage style center cap. I can even run 13's and 15's... I had these stock car centers stashed away in the digital parts bin, so I slapped them on the model. They're close enough...

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-02-2007).]

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Report this Post08-02-2007 02:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am thinking about adapting this idea to Timepiece. I designed this for my trike project, but went too far (big surprise ) and eventually came to the conclusion that it didn't really fit the project.

For this project, I am thinking about using two quarter-elliptical leafs, running longitudinally, (one per side) instead of the single transverse spring. The front of the spring would mount to a bracket on the frame, and the rear eye would be bolted, via a custom bracket, to the top of the Fiero knuckle. For the trike, I was seeking billet aluminum mounts, with dual rod ends on each side to allow toe adjustments. For Timepiece, I would have a fabricated steel knuckle mount; and an adjustable fabricated steel frame mount.

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-02-2007).]

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Report this Post08-02-2007 02:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

toddshotrods

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oops double - need sleep!

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-02-2007).]

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Report this Post08-02-2007 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice stuff but way too far out of the budget - at least for now. A set of factory steelies and cheap radials will make a nice temporary compromise.

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Report this Post08-03-2007 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am going to put a leather-clad faux trunk behind the powertrain, that will house the radiator. I felt the rear end needed something, but wanted to keep the powertrain exposed; and I dont' want to stuff the radiator under the front. It's another Fiero design element too.


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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-03-2007).]

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Report this Post08-03-2007 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Open (not completely, maybe a mesh) on the front and bottom for airflow?
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Report this Post08-03-2007 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
Open (not completely, maybe a mesh) on the front and bottom for airflow?

Yeah, it defnitely needs something like that for airflow. I can use this:


I was thinking about punching holes in the leather as well. I am going to test that idea with a more accurate model of the trunk eventually, I just don't have the time right now. The representation of the trunk in the last rendering is just a simple solid (box shape) that I filleted (rounded) the edges on. Another idea I had was to make the top hinged (along its rear edge), with a cable leading to a cockpit lever to raise it (to scoop fresh air in). Kind of like the Lambo's side intakes do, but with a hand lever instead of computers and motors. That would almost have been hi-tech back then. The "trunk" would definitely have to have leather straps with buckles.

I think he's probably too busy, but I am going to PM Cliff and ask if he is willing to change the title of this thread for me. Just a "heads-up" for those that are following and contributing here. If it happens, the new title will be something like "1927 Pontiac Fiero". Plain and simple.

The year change is to match the developments we made here - mainly the body. As we worked through the ideas the body actually took a few steps back from a 32 style body to 1927, where buckets and the minimum amount of body work were common. It's not a big deal, but I would like the title to reflect the build more accurately. I waited until we sifted through the possibilities, and finally started a new journal on my site for this project - officially making it one of my projects! I titled it, "1927 Pontiac Fiero Rat Rod Concept".

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-03-2007).]

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quote
Originally posted by fierohobby:

I like the idea of the leather (on the decklid), but I'm not quite seeing the application... straps and buckles to hold the decklid closed? Kind of like an old "trunk"? Might be visually suggestive of a Fiero luggage rack...

-fh


 
quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:

The "trunk" would definitely have to have leather straps with buckles.



Cool.

-fh
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Report this Post08-03-2007 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The radiator is only 13 inches high. Take the lower half of the trunk out, mount the radiator recessed from the rear with minimal protection.You could even angle it for more space. You'll have a functional trunk then that doubles as a bumper.

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 08-03-2007).]

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Report this Post08-03-2007 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohobby:
Cool...

Oh yeah

 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
...You'll have a functional trunk then that doubles as a bumper.

It's gonna be all radiator space. Now that it doesn't have to tuck under the front, I am going to run a full size one, and the trans cooler, back there. I look at this car like a four-wheeled motorcycle and will just carry what will fit inside with me. A cute passenger, snacks, refreshments, and a couple jackets would do it If i like driving it so much that I want to take trips in it, I will just make a matching motorcycle-style trailer. Maybe a big leather clad trunk on wheels to match the one on the car.

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Report this Post08-03-2007 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
open weave chest with steel mesh for air flow. front and back side panels

reference pics image cool parts
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Report this Post08-04-2007 02:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really like faux finishes, and I am just barely scratching the surface of what can be done with them. I am thinking about either a bare steel faux finish, with strategically placed "rusted-out" areas, or an oxidized aluminum faux finish; for the fiberglass body

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-04-2007).]

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Report this Post08-05-2007 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you going to put extra bracing for the engine? If you can, mount it halfway down the engine to keep the engine open.
Another idea:
Take the valve covers and cut more fins in the top to give it an older look. Also use acorn nuts everywhere.
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Report this Post08-05-2007 11:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another future idea
Duesenburgs had vertical louvers on their radiators that were thermostatically controlled. If you put horizontal louvers on the back, you can hide the radiator, maybe even have them electronically open with the ignition key.

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 08-05-2007).]

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Report this Post08-05-2007 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
...Another idea:
Take the valve covers and cut more fins in the top to give it an older look. Also use acorn nuts everywhere.

Once again, you're right there with me After the thing is running and well sorted out, I plan to model flathead style valve covers (with fins), have them cut on a CNC mill, and bolt them on with acorn nuts! The 3100 is perfect for this because of the shape of the heads and valve covers.

More on the other stuff later, I gotta go...

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Report this Post08-06-2007 12:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I love black suede rat rods with red wheels so I decided to see what the Timepiece would look like with that combination. I like it but it screws my copper-clad steampunk plans because I don't like red and copper together...


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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-06-2007).]

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Report this Post08-06-2007 01:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for slingerSend a Private Message to slingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
reminds me of sky captain and the world of tomorrow, i think it would look awsome with the rivets.
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Report this Post08-06-2007 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had to Google that one! Never saw the movie - now I want to

I hope you guys are still with me after the title change - Thanks again Cliff

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Report this Post08-06-2007 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still here!

What about the body tub and nose cone suede and the nose brass?
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Report this Post08-06-2007 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought about brass but I just like copper better. I never really cared for gold or anything with the appearance of gold - which is what brass looks like to me. Even my wedding band is white gold.

I need to try some different colors on the wheels to correspond with the copper accents.

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Report this Post08-06-2007 10:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, try the body and nose cone suede and the hood and side copper.

more eye candy:
http://www.thewarfields.com...logLakesModified.htm
http://www.mijnposter.nl/thumbs/holder.html click cars then great north american race

movie? how about http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080745/
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Report this Post08-07-2007 03:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like this, but there are still too many different colors and textures for my taste. The powertrain and seats are artificially aged aluminum (faux and real). The beige is leather and/or faux leather. The green and black are painted. Some colors and textures are still not represented...

I could go all copper (powertrain, seats, accents, etc), with the green wheels and black suede body. Maybe a copper trunk too, and black leather on the seat upholstery (suede would be awesome but I don't want to be scared of a few rain drops).

Thoughts/comments?

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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-07-2007).]

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toddshotrods
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Report this Post08-07-2007 04:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What I like about the 3100SFI:

    * Very compact and clean. Fits the streamlined look of the car very nicely.

    * All the EFI stuff is hidden under the (aluminum) plenum. I think I am going to move the TB on top with a single velocity stack.

    * The design of the heads are perfect for my flathead style valve cover plans.

    * I love the sound of GM's 60-degree V6 - totally different than the 90-degree motor. Ever since I heard Kameokid's I have wanted one. It's a nasty growl I believe his had a single cat, no muffler, and dual resonator tips. I am thinking about no cat and a single, original-40, two-chamber, Flowmaster with a single resonator tip. That would have to be a unique sound Thought about duals with Flowmasters, but that's too much time and money to not know what the end (sound) result would be.


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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-07-2007).]

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Gokart Mozart
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Report this Post08-07-2007 07:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods:

I could go all copper (powertrain, seats, accents, etc), with the green wheels and black suede body. Maybe a copper trunk too, and black leather on the seat upholstery (suede would be awesome but I don't want to be scared of a few rain drops).

Thoughts/comments?


Sounds good. the copper will age and turn green, tying in the rims. No need to change the name, though.

Faux suede idea just the first site I saw. Joann one. two
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Report this Post08-07-2007 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like the Ebony Crypton Suede. It says dry clean only, but I can make the seat pads easily detachable, and have them cleaned when necessary. With a fabric guard that probably wouldn't be too often.

You're one heck of a research man Thanks

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Report this Post08-07-2007 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for toddshotrodsClick Here to visit toddshotrods's HomePageClick Here to Email toddshotrodsSend a Private Message to toddshotrodsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I gotta chew on this for a while... That's a lot of copper, but I guess it would really bring the steampunk thing in clear

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Report this Post08-07-2007 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad I can help! Alot of these ideas I've had and it isn't that much harder to find for this application.

Try trans and engine block in iron.

zinc

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 08-07-2007).]

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