I think your drawing makes it look like a pickup but wouldn't the engine be as wide as one person moving the rear flush?
go for it.
Agreed. It's a head start, not a compromise.
Love the Indian Head intake btw, but (not to split hairs too finely) according to your project outline you're building a 1932 *Fiero*, correct? Perhaps a Pegasus in profile might work better, a stylized art-deco design incorporating head and wing?
-fh
edited to add: WOOOOT! Almost 4 years and I finally own a page!
[This message has been edited by fierohobby (edited 07-25-2007).]
Originally posted by fierohobby: ...Love the Indian Head intake btw, but (not to split hairs too finely) according to your project outline you're building a 1932 *Fiero*, correct? Perhaps a Pegasus in profile might work better, a stylized art-deco design incorporating head and wing?...
Point taken. I'll give that a shot when I get a chance. I just love that Indian head, but the Pegasus would be a better choice for the concept.
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Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: ...is the steering going to be exposed and the nose farther back like this?
Nope. The track nose will be nestled right in the horseshoe-shaped front suspension crossmember. The miniature steering rack will be right under the bottom of the nose, and the section of the housing that the steering shaft extends from will actually protrude into the nose (through a hole cut for it). Hope that makes sense. Maybe I'll get around to drawing that soon too.
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Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: ...go for it...
quote
Originally posted by fierohobby: ...Agreed. It's a head start, not a compromise...
Thanks guys This really takes a load off my mind and the actual project work load. Using the pre-existing T-body and track nose will allow me to get the body ready for the street in less than a month - even working on it in my "spare" time. If push comes to shove and I had to get it done I could sacrifice sleep and recreation and have this body plan done really fast.
The chances of this car being ready for the 25th (barring unforeseen bad circumstances) are pretty good. It's just a matter of getting it there.
I love how this plan has developed, and your help has been invaluable. Now that feasible plans for the layout, chassis, and body have been developed my attention is on capturing the "essence of Fiero" in the design as much as possible. As I stated before, I am not trying to make it look like an 80's Fiero turned into a street rod. The goal is to make it look like the Fiero was conceived back then.
* The number one thing that distinguishes the Fiero is it is the first mid-engine/rear-drive, 2-seat, American production car. Accordingly, this whole design is based on that format, albeit with the tandem seating arrangement for a nice twist on the concept.
* I am using actual Fiero suspension components, modified for this application.
* I am using a front-drive GM powertrain moved to the back, which is another Fiero trait.
* I specifically chose a track nose over the standard 30's Poncho style grlle because it reminds me of the GT front fascia.
* Finally I am going to incorporate the Pegasus logo as much as possible.
Do you think the vintage Fiero goal is being accomplished?
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-26-2007).]
Originally posted by 30+mpg: Build a model using a "Pinewood Derby kit". That way, you can give it to some Cub Scout and see your car actually "run".
Hey! I thought the same thing... great minds and all.
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Originally posted by toddshotrods: Do you think the vintage Fiero goal is being accomplished?
You seem to be meeting what you list (correctly in my opinion) as the primary qualification for "Fieroness" - the 2MX factor. Your other points reinforce it, as well as your decision to use 'off-the-shelf' parts. Design choices and styling cues- some subtle and some not- and material selection and finishing will be the determiners of 'vintage'... and you seem to be on track there as well.
But even if you weren't, it's your car and your fun- have at it any way you want. We're just a sounding board.
Just a thought- maybe you can enlist F-I-E-R-O to design the Pegasus for you. He seems to be the resident forum graphic designer. I'd be curious to see what he might come up with...
I like the idea of the leather (on the decklid), but I'm not quite seeing the application... straps and buckles to hold the decklid closed? Kind of like an old "trunk"? Might be visually suggestive of a Fiero luggage rack...
I think I liked it better when the whole body was blended together especially if you wanted a land speed racer look you would want to keep it mostly aerodynamic. I know you have to think about what you know can actually accomplish but I think the last rendition is a bit too much of a compromise on the style of the car. If the rest of the car is going to be easily produced but the body is going to be the part that everybody is going to see first then I would spend most of my designing time on the body. Here is what came to mind when incorporating the t-bucket with the design I preferred.
I would think either a one piece flip up rear (Gt40 like) or a three piece with a flip up decklid (like the Fiero) would make the rear end simple enough design and produce with out making such a radical change. Just my thoughts.
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...I am liking the over all look of the car with every design change...
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Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...I think I liked it better when the whole body was blended together... I think the last rendition is a bit too much of a compromise on the style of the car...
Uh oh, I am losing you I understand your point but my number one priority is a workable plan that gets this car on the road and me back to my other projects. This puppy is being built to be driven - A LOT!!! The split bucket/deck design really facilitates that goal.
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Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...especially if you wanted a land speed racer look ...
That is basically like a condiment on a burger. It adds something but is not crucial for a good experience. I actually started to lean more towards a road race-oriented theme with the tandem seating arrangement, and decision to use 195/50's up front. When I "sat in" the mock-up, it felt more like a vintage road racer. That is also more "Fiero".
quote
Originally posted by toddshotrods: ...The thing I like most about it is the thought of driving it on a twisty road, or exit ramp. It would have to be like driving a vintage race car, because you're perfectly centered and the front wheels are right there in your face! You can actually see the the tires following "the line". Behind your head you can hear the motor gulping fresh air through the intake, and a little further back that nasty growl! ...
Wonder if Cliff would edit the title of this thread for me
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-27-2007).]
Originally posted by toddshotrods: ...Behind your head you can hear the motor gulping fresh air through the intake, and a little further back that nasty growl! ...
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: ...Behind your head you can hear your passenger screaming for dear life...
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-27-2007).]
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: Just post on the top of every page THIS IS NOT A LAND SPEED RACER!!
Well if it's not going to follow any traits, anymore than being mid engined than I wouldn't have any ideas for this project but as it stands I thought there was a theme behind this car and I desired to give my input to collectively shape it into what I thought it was originally meant to be.
quote
Uh oh, I am losing you I understand your point but my number one priority is a workable plan that gets this car on the road and me back to my other projects. This puppy is being built to be driven - A LOT!!! The split bucket/deck design really facilitates that goal.
I didn't mean to sound as if I didn't like it I just had to throw in my opinion based on what I mentioned above about the influence of the design. If this latest design is what it will look like I am still excited to see it being done. I do want to see something built weather it is what I thought it was going to look like or not. And I know it will look completely different in real life then it is expressed on paper. That's all, no arguments on my end not that I could anyways because it not my car.
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: Well if it's not going to follow any traits, anymore than being mid engined than I wouldn't have any ideas for this project but as it stands I thought there was a theme behind this car and I desired to give my input to collectively shape it into what I thought it was originally meant to be.
Straying from the original steampunk/rat rod 27 Fiero Land Speed Racer theme is just a necessity. I absolutely LOVE themes, but sometimes just getting the job done is more important than adhering to a specific set of guidelines. I really want to be behind the wheel of this car next summer. I know that it would mean more to me to have as much seat time as possible behind the wheel of a cool hot rod, than to have a perfectly executed theme.
I am just having fun when I make jokes and sarcastic remarks in this thread, and I hope others are as well. My intention is never to belittle or offend anyone.
quote
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...I didn't mean to sound as if I didn't like it I just had to throw in my opinion based on what I mentioned above about the influence of the design. If this latest design is what it will look like I am still excited to see it being done. I do want to see something built weather it is what I thought it was going to look like or not. And I know it will look completely different in real life then it is expressed on paper...
Glad to hear you still want to see it happen, and I hope that something in the plan continues to spark your interest and result in you posting comments and suggestions - even expressing the things you do not like.
quote
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...That's all, no arguments on my end not that I could anyways because it not my car...
While it's true that this is my car in the end, if I accomplish my second goal, I will have created a car that is a tribute to the open-minded atmosphere of this community; and one that the community can be proud of. Vintage Fiero is the cornerstone of the theme. 1932, steampunk, rat rod, land speed racer, road racer, etc., are decorative finishes that give the vintage Fiero a little more aesthetic appeal.
In case you're wondering what the first goal is - drive it, drive it, drive it!
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-05-2007).]
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: ...exterior door hinges
The Timepiece won't have any doors, or opening sections, so I can't really use the door handles (though they are works of art); but once again you have hit really close to home with that last pic. That is the basic look and feel I want for the cockpit, squeezed down to a single "hump" though. Frameless windshield, curved dash, antique-appearing gauges in a painted dash, and everything real close together (short, narrow, cockpit) - twenties and thirties style.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-29-2007).]
In the last pic, the T-bucket body was the stock width in back and tapered just a tiny bit in front. I wanted to build the model in a similar fashion to how the actual car will be built; i.e. chopping a section out of the middle of the body and glassing it back together. I get a pretty good idea of what will happen when I start on the actual parts. Here I have narrowed the body, and rounded the rear wall a bit (might go a bit further there?). There are a ton of discrepancies in the surfaces, and the nose is way off because I am just trying to get the basic size and shape roughed in. I'll start going back in and correcting all this after I get the basic shape down.
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In the last pic, the T-bucket body was the stock width in back and tapered just a tiny bit in front. I wanted to build the model in a similar fashion to how the actual car will be built; i.e. chopping a section out of the middle of the body and glassing it back together. I get a pretty good idea of what will happen when I start on the actual parts. Here I have narrowed the body, and rounded the rear wall a bit (might go a bit further there?). There are a ton of discrepancies in the surfaces, and the nose is way off because I am just trying to get the basic size and shape roughed in. I'll start going back in and correcting all this after I get the basic shape down.
dude get rid of that nose...it looks like the ambiguously gay duos car ..other than that its an interesting concept
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 07-30-2007).]
Originally posted by Erik: dude get rid of that nose...it looks like the ambiguously gay duos car ..other than that its an interesting concept
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Originally posted by toddshotrods: ...the nose is way off because I am just trying to get the basic size and shape roughed in. I'll start going back in and correcting all this after I get the basic shape down...
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...the nose is way off because I am just trying to get the basic size and shape roughed in. I'll start going back in and correcting all this after I get the basic shape down...
I kind of like the exposed engine. But after all my quick thoughts on that look, it's probably illegal and would compromise reliability. Are you gathering parts to start working on it or are you building anything yet?
I love the idea of the exposed engine! The only downside would be keeping the frame rails and struts simple and clean so they do not detract from the engine.
I would not expect the exposed engine to be illegal, many of the rat rods run with exposed engines....
So is the radiator going in the front now? If so, have it at a front forward lean with a bottom mounted scoop for air intake and lots of louvers in the hood and sides or a combination of vents and louvers. http://www.motorbase.com/pr...4609662;p=2056815548 Can you see an old Pontiac Chief head on the side like you drew earlier?
I'm sure you would be the first person to have strapped a rocket engine to the back of a daily driven 1930s rat rod. I guess if your gonna make something unusual you might as well go all the way. But that would also be going all the way at over 300mph. I'll pray for your soul.
A couple gallons of hydrogen peroxide and two scuba tanks of Nitrogen and you too can run as fast as this. Whole system is only a couple hundred pounds.
Sammy Miller in his rocket car.
His first three-second run occured at Santa Pod Raceway in Bedfordshire, England in 1980 where he ran a 3.90. (As a point of comparison, the lowest NHRA Top Fuel e.t. that year was a 5.68.) In 1981, he set the world ice speed and e.t. record with a 1.67 at 247-mph in the eighth-mile. By 1980, he held 30 United States state and track records in elapsed time and mile per hour. He holds the quickest elapsed time and mile per hour standards in the following countries: (1/4 mile) CANADA (4.26/331) DENMARK (4.97/267) ENGLAND (3.58/386) SWEDEN (4.10/328) MEXICO (4.95/274)
**BEST SPEED - 386.26 at Santa Pod (England), although Miller did run 396-mph at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah over a quarter-mile from a standing start.
BEST E.T. - 3.583
(1/8 mile) BELGIUM (3.13/211) HOLLAND (1.606/307) ENGLAND (2.00/312) SWEDEN (2.27/297) GERMANY (2.49/259) CORSICA (2.56/238)
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: I kind of like the exposed engine. But after all my quick thoughts on that look, it's probably illegal and would compromise reliability...
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru: I love the idea of the exposed engine! The only downside would be keeping the frame rails and struts simple and clean so they do not detract from the engine.
I would not expect the exposed engine to be illegal, many of the rat rods run with exposed engines....
I didn't say anything because I was hoping that you guys would see what I see - I LOVE the exposed engine!!!
One good thing about Ohio is you can register and drive a frame and motor, as long as it has the basic safety equip (lights, horn, etc.); so my exposed motor will be fine
I was dreading the thought of closing the motor in after I saw the rear three-quarter view of the model. If everyone here said it was ugly, I was going to consider covering it, but...
I am working on designs for the rear frame and suspension to make it look right in the open. One benefit is the body is so freakin simple now that I can put a little more fabrication work into the chassis, without blowing my time/money goals.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-31-2007).]
Originally posted by The Poopsmith: ...Are you gathering parts to start working on it or are you building anything yet?
Gathering parts and looking for the gremlins that would stop it from happening. I have decided to put two other projects on hold until this one is on the road, and if I really like it I may even sell the Camaro when it's done. Until then, the Camaro gives me something to have fun with and market my services...
If all goes according to my plans, I hope to begin building the frame in August - September at the latest. The biggest thing with that is developing the design to the point that I know I am only going to do it once. The changes in the body from the beginning of this thread would have resulted in three different frames being built, if I had just jumped in headfirst. That gets frustrating and is one of the big reasons projects never leave the garage; and why pre-engineered kits are so attractive.
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[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-31-2007).]
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: ...So is the radiator going in the front now? If so, have it at a front forward lean with a bottom mounted scoop for air intake and lots of louvers in the hood and sides or a combination of vents and louvers. http://www.motorbase.com/pr...4609662;p=2056815548 Can you see an old Pontiac Chief head on the side like you drew earlier?...
I haven't figured that out yet but I like your train of thought. I don't think there's enough space under the "bonnet" for a conventional radiator (even tilted), and I don't want to increase the size. Radiators that would fit will also blow the budget...
I MUST have one of those helmets (at some point in the future) to go with the car at cruises and shows! I don't think I could wear it driving around though!
I like the dashboard ralleye plate too. One of those would be cool on the back of the driver's seat - for the navigator. OK, so now I'll need two "suicide" helmets!
The third link didn't work???
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.jpg)
Might be visually suggestive of a Fiero luggage rack...
I understand your point but my number one priority is a workable plan that gets this car on the road and me back to my other projects. This puppy is being built to be driven - A LOT!!! The split bucket/deck design really facilitates that goal.
