Thanks to V8Archie for giving me exact dimensions of the clutch slave rod. Will make one Monday, install and see if this resolves hard clutch pedal (keeping my fingers crossed on this). If the trans has to come out, odds are we won't have enough time to get all the rest of the work completed in time, for me to run the over to the 25th Show.
Alex: It does look better in person than it does in photo's, all the mechanics came over to look at it with the deck lid down/stacks in place, and they all had big smiles on their faces, commenting on how good it looked.
RWDPLS: Interesting idea (nice photoshop) adding 4 more dummy stacks to balance appearance. While some people would see all the stacks, think fake deck lid add-on, then be "floored" when they look in the engine compartment: A lot of people would just walk past the car and not pay any attention to it for same reason (gotta be fake).
We'll see how this goes, at this point I just want to get the car runnning, My thoughts are leading to making a seperate removable outer panel with stack holes close to same diameter as tubes with the filters (rectangular panel, forward part of deck lid, matching side lines of the black grills). Panel would be held in place by quick release fastteners used on race cars, panel could probably made of Black Carbon Fiber pretty easy, and the inner panel structure can easily be modified to support the entire deck lid weight with the panel removed (eliminating the need to remove the stacks). Will tackle this idea after the 25th Show, if anyone wants to play in photoshop with this idea, picture would be appreciated very much.
Awesome build, Kid. As I was catching up reading the post, I was wondering how you would clear the stacks opening the decklid...How about a shacker style cover around the stacks that is seperate from the decklid?
just a thought...
Bob
[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 07-20-2008).]
Shaker style would be a possibility, but would still be tough to execute as you'll see by looking at photo below, white dash lines show areas that cut with hole saw for clearance (it's a tight fit and I don't want to hog out too much more of the inner reinforcement. The front right corner took a pretty big hit with the hole saw. I had to "pry" (was hi temp RTV glued in place) off the stainless steel mirror, hi strength bi-metal hole saw could not get through the stuff, wasted one hole saw trying to drill one hole.
Thanks Fie Ro !
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-20-2008).]
The left ones do looked centered, course you could add a couple fake stacks to the right to make folks think you have a V12! Nevermind, that's a ricey idea. Regardless, lot of engineering has gone into your car it shows and looks great.
Edit: Hey I'm not the only person that thought that, nice PS RWDPLZ
[This message has been edited by ChopTop (edited 07-21-2008).]
Clutch issue behind us now, shop make a new slave rod today (based on dimensions supplied both by Archie and CosVegFiero here on the Forum, Thanks again Guys !), rod they had originally made (to replace lost rod) was about 2 inches too short.
Late today, we tried to fire the engine, but no spark, or signal to injectors. Everything is new, so we traced all wires for distributor, FAST ECU, MSD, MSD TACH Adapt, and coil but they appear to be all funtional. Ran out of time, so next step is to determine if the FAST ECU is set internally (programmed) for Distributor Ignition, or if it's currently programmed for crank trigger (which it isn't wired for of course). Should be a minor issue, and be running tomorrow unless another domino falls down.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-21-2008).]
If it is anything like most EFI systems, the ECU will never be able to stop spark, just fuel, so if it isnt getting a tach signal it will not fire injectors. AKA look at the spark system well before you look at any of the EFI stuff.\
The distributer has a base timing set that will give it a set timing, then the ECU can advance or retard from there, and will work independently of anything (same goes with coil pack/crank trigger ignition systems)
Well I'll tell it like it is, some guys got a new toy, and didn't take the time to read all the directions that came with it.........you know how it is. We were anxious to hear the sucker run, but it turns out the computer needs some initial inputs from the laptop before it will fire either the injectors or the distributor. Slap up side the head, but kinda funny ! Hopefully car will be running by the time I stop by the shop after work today.
Wow, engine is running, sounds awesome even with it running rich. Base tune tomorrow following by breaking engine in. Thursday will hopefully be full tune session.
The Shop Owner and myself really busted our butts to have it road ready by Friday afternoon................but it wasn't to be. Have two slight issues, the first being a minor random pop through a couple of the intake ports @ 2,000 rpm, and the second being the alternator isn't outputting power. Re-adjusted all the rockers, didn't solve random pop. The Shop owner and I put 12 hrs in it Thursday and another 10 hours Friday (both of us are feeling the pain). We'll get past things issues pretty easy, but we just ran out of time to make it to the show. Have 10 minutes of engine break-in time, even with the issues, and engine does sound really good. The gas in the car is from last October (3/4 tank), so we're going to drain it, and put fresh in to rule that out.
I just got back from the 25th Show about an hour ago, did get a chance to talk to some of our Pennocks Buddies for a while, and it was great to see the cars.
I did get a chance to put the new seats in, while Shop Owner fabricated the throttle linkage bracket/hook-up, it's even set up for cruise control !
Needless to say, I'm pretty bummed out about not having it ready for the 25th, with that pressure off now, we'll take a little more time to understand the new computer and Hilborn setup. My setup also has the multi spark MSD along with MSD Tach Adapt, which is not the norm with the XFI Computer, and we have to make sure that those components aren't goofing up the computer, or vis versa (Hilborn doesn't have any history on this electrical setup).
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-26-2008).]
Wow, engine is running, sounds awesome even with it running rich. Base tune tomorrow following by breaking engine in. Thursday will hopefully be full tune session.
Hey Cali if you can do that to your self from being happy the car is running I can just imagine you getting excited and the lady getting her tank filled....hmmm
LOL Gunslinger ! Grabbed that photo off the net to illustrate a point . You would have to hear it in person to know exactly what I experienced, it does have a great nasty sound to it. I took some video of the short run we did Friday, but the damn file is 55mb, and I don't have a clue about posting it anywhere, and haven't figured out how to make it smaller yet.
Me and women??? I'm getting old enough, that I'd like to have one of those electrical heart zappers near the bed stand........just in case!!!
If someone wants to post up the 55mb video, sent me a link that I can upload to, GMail won't allow a file this size to be sent.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-26-2008).]
Haven't planned that far ahead, first goal is to get car out of the shop, and you know how Michigan weather is, pretty hard to plan ahead. After I get the car out of the shop, first couple places I'll put it on display is Cruise Night @ Mt. Clemens, Pampa Lanes, and Continental Lanes. I still have some things I want to do after it gets out of the shop, but most won't keep me from driving it, heck half the summer is gone already.
I'll have to find out where the local Corvette Forum guys are meeting one night and pay them a visit ! Had a great time the last time I met with them.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-27-2008).]
Your reading my mind, planning on covering the whole front rectangle with a sheet of "engine turned" aluminum .040 thick (26 1/2 x 16 inches) sheet, using 4 Dzus fasteners. Ordered the alum sheet last Wednesday, picked up Friday, will work on it this week. This is one of the items I'll finish up after car gets out of shop.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 07-27-2008).]
Thanks Revin ! The glass concept is beyond my capabilities, could be executed, but could get a little costly (and require constantly cleaning).
Update on progress made: It was found that the Alternator electronics took a permanent vacation, so we have a reliable shop down the street do a full rebuild on it with quality parts.
Hilborn listened to the mp3 of the engine running @ 2,000 rpm and confirmed that they feel the butterflies in the throttle bodies need some minor adjustment to eliminate random flutter popping through throttle bodies. They supplied set sequence procedure for adjustment and recommended using this little gizmo:
Top things off, the coolant tank up by the radiator decided to seam split over the weekend, just sitting in shop. luckily I had a new spare in the garage that I can drop off in the morning. Alternator is back in with another "base" tuning session going on tomorrow.
One last tid bit, that beautiful, polished thermo stat housing that Hilborn supplied was giving us sealing issues (leaks). After the second attempt to repair failed, they found the threaded holes in the housing were drilled through into the housing coolant cavity (these threaded holes are outside the rubber "O" ring seal area of the CNC Neck fitting). Coolant was squeezing it's way out passed bolt fastened threads, which thread sealer has fixed the issue. Small things like this (there have been quite a few) have added some delay time to this project, but were getting there!
Hilborn listened to the mp3 of the engine running @ 2,000 rpm and confirmed that they feel the butterflies in the throttle bodies need some minor adjustment to eliminate random flutter popping through throttle bodies. They supplied set sequence procedure for adjustment and recommended using this little gizmo:
Use a Syncrometer, much easier to use then the Uni-Syn.
Car is still in the shop cleaning up some issues, one being it just runs too hot. We did find that with this fuel injection system, the chassis dyno does not tell the whole story, it's a tuning aid, but that's about it, we cannot get accurate engine performance data above about 5,100 rpm on the dyno where it falls off sharply in both HP/Torque. The engine is totally the opposite on the street, pulling like gang buster's all the way to the 6,500 rev limiter, it just gets more powerful right up to the rev limiter shutting it down.
Shop owner and I discussed the above with Hilborn and were told to ignore the dyno numbers, just use dyno to check mixture ratio, for a good base tune, then do final tuning on street with laptop. One factor on the dyno is that the air sensor for my engine computer isn't getting air flow over it, just sitting in hot engine bay (it's near side air scoop that doesn't get air on dyno), it's also been pretty hot and humid here until just recently. Hilborn has listened to the mp3's made off video and they feel we have a pretty darn good tune at this point.
The couple times I've taken it out for a run, it's been awesome. Hoping to have balance of issues sorted out over the next week.
Well for some odd reason you cant get dyno #s them there is only one other way to gauge its performance. Hit the 1/4 and see what it puts down, that will tell alot about the setup. Should be able to get dyno numbers being many other cars have ran this setup and been dynoed.
With the 88 being in the shop so long, I completed a few details on my 87, put some plates on it (last plated in 1998). I installed a set of Ms Lori's quarter windows, that required belt sanding the edges in many places to get the to fit properly, but they came out real nice, and red tint compliments the car. Paint is Red Fire Metallic used on many Ford Cars, a little lighter than the GM Med Red Metallic original color, and it has a lot more metal flake in it, great look on sunny days.
The 87 GT has a new 88 2.8 complete engine, sprint headers, bored throttle body, no cat, MSD ignition, new 88 auto trans with shift kit, urethane suspension / cradle bushing, addco rear sway bar with urethane to both front rear bars, intrax lowering spring, vented brake rotors, all new stainless brake lines, braided lines, and carbomet pads (even though I don't care for the pads much).
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 08-22-2008).]
At first I thought you photoshopped that red tint into your windows. Gave me a little optical illusion feeling the first few seconds I started at the picture.
So that's where your old wheels went off too. Still plans to swap your old engine into it also?
[This message has been edited by Bradley Jay (edited 08-22-2008).]
That's how the 87 looks in person, no tricks with the pictures. Great car, have been using it as my summer commute car, keeping miles of the Extreme. I have no plans to do an engine swap in it, with both the engine and trans being new (about 6,000 miles since installed), it just goes against the grain to pull them out.
A mechanic at the shop working on my 88 bought my 350 long block. I just kept the entire intake system, that I'll clean up, and sell.
I just noticed that Kid doesn't have an antenna, but your red '87 does. What did you do to remove the antenna, if you don't mind me asking?
When the Kid went into the body shop for a full panels off repaint to Viper Yellow, I had them fill in the antenna hole, and the nose badge holes. I consider the antenna dangerous on a lowered car, when I had my car at one show, a guy nearly got it poked into his eye (just missed, ball impacted his eyebrow), so I decided to get rid of it. Packed the antenna under the dash, no long range, but I listen to mostly CD's I make. I don't show the 87, so I haven't done anything with that one.
Seems a couple people are interested in the power that the new engine in the Kid makes. I'll tell you all this, I don't care what the actual numbers are, after taking it for a drive. It's a major improvement over my modified L98, to the point that I have concerns over the clutch, trans, and halfshafts. The new engine plants you back into the seat harder than before, and pressure increases very noticeable as the tach climbs, there absolutely no leveling or falling off all the way to 6,500 rpm (which I won't pass). It's like you have a screaming demon sitting behind you, and things happen so fast, it's a real rush, you can't help but smile after hitting a couple gears. It's a lot different than my last engine, in a nasty brutal kind of way, and it does sound terrific. There's even more power to be had easily if I wanted to, but a drive tells you there's more than enough to keep you happy as it is. To sum this paragraph up, I will not be making any horsepower claims, posting dyno sheets, running and posting quarter mile time slips, etc. I will be however, be enjoying the hell out of taking this car for drives, and putting it in car shows.
To make a long story short, the car is still in the shop. Tuning issues we were running into, that progressively got worse, were diagnosed back to the valve springs. Turns out the other Shop that built the engine either got wrongly packaged, or they installed the wrong valve springs in the engine. The Cam in the engine requires valve springs with 135 lb spring rate, after the engine had run approx. 250 miles the shop pulled a spring, and it only registered a spring force of 65 lbs. This condition resulted in valve float and incorrect cam timing as low as 3,700 rpm. It appears the springs were doing somewhat of a decent job upon first run of the engine, but they quickly deteriorated. The car was put on flatbed back to Engine Shop, and he just finished putting the correct valve springs in the engine. He also used a fiber optic scope to make sure there was no damage to the cam or the pistons, and pressure checked all cylinders.
Car will be flatbed trucked back to Shop that did engine install in the next few days. Once back at the Shop we're going to connect two additional coolant lines to rear to the heads @ intake (they are currently plugged), so we'll have four coolant lines feeding into the thermostat housing. We are hoping this will cure the high temperature issue we get into after 30 minutes run time, otherwise I'll have to get a more efficient radiator and/or fan setup. Lastly, the Shop "glazed" my QuarterMaster clutch disks, and they will have to pull the trans and replaced the disks, and possibly the floater plate if they heated it up too much.
This year certainly didn't pan out like I thought it would, it has been one issue after the next, all of them a PIA.
While some people would see all the stacks, think fake deck lid add-on, then be "floored" when they look in the engine compartment: A lot of people would just walk past the car and not pay any attention to it for same reason (gotta be fake).
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