I'd have to be personally motivated to fight for my country, simply because they told me to wouldn't cut it.
if someone was literally trying to attack my home, then yeah.. I'd defend myself.. but I still don't see the point of the vietnam war, I have no idea why america was even there... I'm glad canada doesn't go off fighting in every war there is. we mostly seem to provide support. and that's ok.
point is, if my country told me to fight for them, and I didn't agree with their policy on whatever the issue was, I'd tell them where to go...... couldn't run to the states to get away from the draft, by the time canada was actually fighting in a war, the usa would have already been at war for years probably.. lol..
draft sucks. this is one case where my heart condition would be good, I'd never pass the physical.. yay
Originally posted by Pontiaddict: Sounds like a lack of tolerance for another belief to me. You're calling religion the devil, and would kill people who kill for their religious beliefs, because it's alright in your beliefs. How is that any different than what you're complaining about? After you stone them all, stone yourself.
Just becasue you don't call your views a religeon doesn't mean that they aren't one.
[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 12-06-2001).]
12 -6 at 11:30 this was posted BUT DID NOT SAY I WANT TO KILL THE CHRISTIANS I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE CHRISTIAN DID TO PEOPLE IN THE PAST MY original words follow
Originally posted by ray b: your total lack of understanding and tolerance for others belifes is typical of christians in regaurds to any others belife or religions.and shows why they are a danger to all others. __call them the devil and then kill them like they did in the past. wicca is not satanic and is much older than judaio-christian belife.and less of a danger to nonbelivers.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mr3 you are again wrong and miss quote me to twist what I said to your ideas.Mr P started the wrong read and you jumped on his words not mine.
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
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12:57 AM
Galen No longer registered
Report this Post12-13-2001 01:07 AM
Galen
posts Member since
religions are religions, nuff said.. my head hurts from reading all this junk(and I do use the word loosely, wouldn't wanna degrade junk) and I haven't hardly read much of it. Perhaps some ppl have a point, perhaps others do to. The truth is what we see it to be, no matter what anyone says. The truth remains that no matter what you say, I am right. No matter what I say, you are right.
Originally posted by DaRkLoRD: I'd have to be personally motivated to fight for my country, simply because they told me to wouldn't cut it.
if someone was literally trying to attack my home, then yeah.. I'd defend myself..
Two similar replys. Hmmm Kinda sounds like the old better red than dead thing from the sixties. Hopefully someone, somewhere will defend your country, so your future granchildren can enjoy the same freedom you have, if need be. So, I'll re-ask the same question I tried to get anyone to answer about 5 months ago. You would defend your house you live in. Ok. Where do you draw the line? Across town? Across the province/state? On the other side of the country? Your own freedom is valuable to you, everybody else can go to hell? See my previous post.
Ok seeing this thread at 19 pages really got me wondering if you guy's really had 19 pages worth of stuff to say about Harry potter. I have only read the 19th page and have found out that the topic has now switched to religion. So the question now is how did a discussion on Harry Potter turn into one about religion or were there several turning points. And no I am not going to read 19 pages
if someone was literally trying to attack my home, then yeah.. I'd defend myself..
[/b]
Two similar replys. Hmmm Kinda sounds like the old better red than dead thing from the sixties. Hopefully someone, somewhere will defend your country, so your future granchildren can enjoy the same freedom you have, if need be. So, I'll re-ask the same question I tried to get anyone to answer about 5 months ago. You would defend your house you live in. Ok. Where do you draw the line? Across town? Across the province/state? On the other side of the country? Your own freedom is valuable to you, everybody else can go to hell? See my previous post. [/B][/QUOTE]
I belive if we were attacted by north V-nam in NY NY like on 9-11 sure go to war but in 68 the guys who convinced me not to go were the US ARMY vets who had just came back fron there!!!! and we said when the commies land on the beach we will fight them but not in their own civil war in V-nam THAT IS NOT OUR FIGHT. the only thing we could of WON was the right to keep fighting there now with my kids and yours fighting theirs in a never ending war. REMEMBER GAP SAID WE WILL FIGHT ONE DAY LONGER THEN USA WE DO NOT NEED TO WIN ONLY LAST LONGER to win. and they did. I will fight for freedom, I will defend this counrty BUT I will not die to support a puppet in another counrty's civil war just because a fool said PUSH ON.
Originally posted by TRiAD: And there IS such a thing as "consciencious objectors". Last I checked, most of them were Christians though...funny how the atheists on the board think they were dodging and the Christians were who wanted us to fight the war.
Ray, your comments on the causes of the Vietnam conflict DEFINITELY give away your (lack of) age. Quit trying to be 50, I'd bet you're like 22, tops. NO ONE who was alive then (and I barely was) would think the war was about Christians fighting some other religion...
You too can enjoy one of our parting gifts, thanks for playing.
I WISH I WAS sorry you are wrong I remember KILL A COMMIE FOR CHRIST billboards right next to SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL KKK all over the rural south black and white TV one chanel only jack parr honnymooners that were not reruns but a new show
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
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01:46 AM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by maryjane: ... [This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-13-2001).]
Damn STRAIGHT I would fight for my freedom, and for my way of life. But I'd do it on MY terms, and by my OWN free volition. You'd find me dodging the draft, and signing up on the other side of the country. NOT hiding under a hay-bale.
The answer you are looking for? I'm not LOOKING for a fight. I'm not looking to start **** in other countries. I'm looking to have a nice, decent, relaxing life. If my government decides that it has to go do something out in the middle of nowhere for fuzzy reasons, then they can bloody well send their troops, and leave me the hell alone. BUT, when the cloud starts approaching me, personally, sticking my head in the sand is not going to help me. I'll pickup my hockey-stick and leap into the fray.
So my answer? If Canada GOES to war. I'm staying home. If Canada's DRAGGED to war, I'm in, all the way. If Canada's forced to DEFEND herself, I'm in. But if she's on the offensive (quiet in the peanut gallery), it better be a DAMN good reason, 'cos I ain't terribly interested.
I WILL NOT be a pawn. But if I HAVE to be, I would be a rook.
Can you enlighten me as to why the US was in Vietnam in the first place? We don't have to take it in history, and I'd like to know from a first-hand perspective before making any assumptions. What was it about Vietnam that was a danger to your way of life? Propaganda aside?
Triad: For God and Country. For some reason the 2 aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not sure that it was you, but the point was brought up that your own constituition was drafted using Christian principles... Directly, or indirectly, you are a state run by Judaeo-Christians. If they say "go to war," then it is IMPLIED that it's a good, christian thing to do. THAT is what I was refering to.
Now, ray: I don't know where you live, but you sure do see a LOT of extremetism... Haven't you ever seen a NORMAL person, and not some frothing lunatic spewing dogmatic drivel? I'm thinking that your outlook might be considerably different
[This message has been edited by Mach10 (edited 12-13-2001).]
Originally posted by Jefrysuko: Ok seeing this thread at 19 pages really got me wondering if you guy's really had 19 pages worth of stuff to say about Harry potter. I have only read the 19th page and have found out that the topic has now switched to religion. So the question now is how did a discussion on Harry Potter turn into one about religion or were there several turning points. And no I am not going to read 19 pages
I believe it turned to religion on the first page already. People love arguing about religion here
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05:16 AM
BlackStang95 Member
Posts: 636 From: Virginia Beach, VA Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by Mach10: Can you enlighten me as to why the US was in Vietnam in the first place?
I believe it was the perceived threat of the spread of communism. Remember at the time we had just acquired a communist neighbor 90 miles south of Florida that was pointing missles at us.
Whether or not we should have been in that particular fight is arguable but the concept is sound. If you wait until the enemy attacks you directly, you may find you are the only one left.
If a civil war broke out in Canada between a faction friendly to us and another faction that hated us, wouldn't it be in our best interest to help the "good" guys? How close does the conflict have to be to affect us? The Middle East is half way around the world so their ongoing conflict will never spill over into our world... right???
Originally posted by ray b: 12 -6 at 11:30 this was posted BUT DID NOT SAY I WANT TO KILL THE CHRISTIANS I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE CHRISTIAN DID TO PEOPLE IN THE PAST MY original words follow
Originally posted by ray b: your total lack of understanding and tolerance for others belifes is typical of christians in regaurds to any others belife or religions.and shows why they are a danger to all others. __call them the devil and then kill them like they did in the past. wicca is not satanic and is much older than judaio-christian belife.and less of a danger to nonbelivers.
Where did I say that you wanted Christians killed? All I said is that you have a lack of tolerance for other people beliefs.
And here you are, putting words into my mouth to prove your argument of me putting words into yours.
every slimball scumbag dreg of humanity will fight to defend his OWN house and his OWN life.
The question is: will you put your own life at risk to defend your neighbors home, life, family?
what about the guy across the street who has based his life on the same beliefs and principles you have? Will you stand at his side when the way of life you stand for is threatened?
what about the guy across the river?
across the ocean?
on the other side of the globe?!
thats the diffence between civilization and cavemen - instead of standing up for your own possesions, we stand up for a way of life.
We stand with our brothers side by side. No matter where they are.
We dont fight to protect our own lives or our pile of junk - we fight to protect our way of life - Freedom.
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10:33 AM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
Mach10, the U.S. got sucked into Vietnam in the 1950's bailing out the French. France owned LOTS of rubber plantations and the communists were threatening that. This was France's war, and they were fighting it. They were getting their butts kicked, and in one particular battle had thousands of men stranded, and as their friend, we helped them out and rescued them. Then they suckered us into kind of "taking the baton". The U.S. leaders were still in the cold war anti-communist fear mode, and were afraid of letting it spread anywhere, even if so far away as to not be a threat. They just didn't know where to draw the line at the time. This was all in the context of the Cuban missile crisis, bay of pigs, etc. Actually, Kennedy was the one that really got the momentum going, and then Johnson really escalated it.
It's easy IN RETROSPECT to see how many errors the leaders made in assessments.
Originally posted by Mach10: ...Triad: For God and Country. For some reason the 2 aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not sure that it was you, but the point was brought up that your own constituition was drafted using Christian principles... Directly, or indirectly, you are a state run by Judaeo-Christians. If they say "go to war," then it is IMPLIED that it's a good, christian thing to do. THAT is what I was refering to...
As long as this country passes laws that; legalize abortion, give "life-partners" spousal rights and benifits, and ban the Bible and prayer in it's schools, you will NEVER make an argument that it's a "Christian State".
Come to think of it, Christianity is the only "major" religion that I'm aware of that doesn't have one. The Jews have Israel (kind of), atheists and Budhists could go almost anywhere in the East, Muslims have most of the Middle East, Christians are constantly having their rights and beliefs cut-down in this country, in deferance to everyone else.
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: every slimball scumbag dreg of humanity will fight to defend his OWN house and his OWN life.
The question is: will you put your own life at risk to defend your neighbors home, life, family?
what about the guy across the street who has based his life on the same beliefs and principles you have? Will you stand at his side when the way of life you stand for is threatened?
what about the guy across the river?
across the ocean?
on the other side of the globe?!
thats the diffence between civilization and cavemen - instead of standing up for your own possesions, we stand up for a way of life.
We stand with our brothers side by side. No matter where they are.
We dont fight to protect our own lives or our pile of junk - we fight to protect our way of life - Freedom.
And if our ally is a scum sucking gangster like THE SHAW OF IRAN, or Somoesa in NIC. or the gang of theifs that ran V-nam, like DIEM or KEY , and no freedom on any side. V-nam was about POWER and CONTROL, not about freedom as there was none for any side just lust and greed. IN A other war we stoped the REDS in KOREA but only gave them a GREEDY PIG TO RUN OUR SIDE AFTER THE WAR FOR MORE THAN 2o years no freedom or rights under OUR PUPPET there. SAME as we did in south america in Chile and other Dirty wars to support the RICH not the peoples freedom as they had none.
Originally posted by TRiAD: As long as this country passes laws that; legalize abortion, give "life-partners" spousal rights and benifits, and ban the Bible and prayer in it's schools, you will NEVER make an argument that it's a "Christian State".
Come to think of it, Christianity is the only "major" religion that I'm aware of that doesn't have one. The Jews have Israel (kind of), atheists and Budhists could go almost anywhere in the East, Muslims have most of the Middle East, Christians are constantly having their rights and beliefs cut-down in this country, in deferance to everyone else.
Christians CONTROL many countrys like IRELAND, in England there is a State Church who crowns the Kings, Spain and others like Italy only very lately regained control from church.France was a MOST CATHOLIC NATION untill a REVOLUTION ran out it's king and churchies in 179x. WHEN CHURCH had total control it was call THE DARK AGES 1000 years of evil run by church. YOU WANT YOUR FAIRY TALES TO BE OUR LAWS thats not freedom in any way shape or form. and very like Talibans program.
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: The question is: will you put your own life at risk to defend your neighbors home, life, family?
Interesting question Ken
Here is my elaborate answer. For those of you without kids you may not understand my answer, maybe someday you will
Looking at my reason for living on a very basic level is 1 to enjoy and respect the world and its diversity. 2 procreate my genetic code and protect that even more than my home or other replaceable worldly possessions.
Taking into consideration the threat to freedom, to do the above mentioned. be it mine yours or OUR children's and the effect of ignoring this threat may have on future generations. Since I have children, I have stronger feelings for their safety and quality of life. this is not limited to only my children mind you.
So take for example Sept. 11th and what happened on that day was a major wakeup call for me and I'm sure for most. I realized that my wife and child could have been on the plane or in one of the towers. I realized that my childs safety was at risk and her future could be wrought with terror and uncertainty and I do not want that. I want her to live happy and free from worry like I did (mostly). I want my son to grow up and not worry about being drafted to fight for something he has yet to realize. So I'm faced with a decision Fight or just ignore the problem and let Osama (or other)have his way and kill my kids, maybe not now maybe not later maybe not at all maybe not my kids but yours or someone else's child. The ONLY thing I have in this life worth dying for or killing for are my children. Killing people is not something that comes naturally (for most) but to protect and defend my children, I'm sure I could without remorse. Dieing is not something I particularly look forward to but the way I see it my job to protect my children, it's not over until I die.
On to the Nam thing and the draft.
A draft without a declarations of war is totally wrong. If this were law, Nam would never have happened. Nuff said
The way I see it, it is wrong to force someone to die for any reason other than to defend their children from threat of death or harm and to protect their right to live peacefully and grow old and have a family of their own. Those young men that fought under any condition other than this, even more so for those that died, are truly heroic and deserve the most honor and respect that any living person can give them. Anyone that is told they must die for "country" and has not had the chance to realize what that means IS in my mind is a victim of injustice and deserves at the very least honor. There is nothing more dangerous to an enemy than a man the is WILLING to die than one who is not. This is why the draft is wrong. However I do realize that there are those who have children and do not agree with my point of view. There are those that do not care what happens to our children or their way of life. I this case what do we do? Give up? So we do need a draft of sorts but to take young men under 21 without having experienced life is so wrong I cant even begin to describe it, at least let them get friggin drunk!
Lastly To all the veterans of all the wars right or wrong. I owe you my deepest thanks for what you have done for US. Thanks to you I have enjoyed a very happy and worry free life. The sacrifices you have made are for most incomprehedible. I wish I could build a monument or give you a medal but all I can do is say thank you. I hope those meager words will do.
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01:29 PM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by TRiAD: As long as this country passes laws that; legalize abortion, give "life-partners" spousal rights and benifits, and ban the Bible and prayer in it's schools, you will NEVER make an argument that it's a "Christian State".
Come to think of it, Christianity is the only "major" religion that I'm aware of that doesn't have one. The Jews have Israel (kind of), atheists and Budhists could go almost anywhere in the East, Muslims have most of the Middle East, Christians are constantly having their rights and beliefs cut-down in this country, in deferance to everyone else.
But my dear Triad, SOMEONE already DID, and I'm 90% sure that it was you... The other suspect was Ken Wittlef...
But I digress; I'm a firm believer that , the church DOES NOT belong in government. Giving any fundamentalist ANY political power is dangerous. VERY dangerous. Look at how happy and peaceful those "religious states" are... Works well, don't it? The Taliban is a Religious state... they were a great bunch, weren't they? Oh, and the Israelies... Nice little war that started AGAIN. Same with the Palestines, Saudis, and so on. Peaceful enlightened societies all of them...
And don't go on about how they are all wrong and christianity is any different. As far as they are concerned, they are right, and WE are wrong. There's NOTHING to show that YOUR religion is any more "correct" than theirs. You have the Bible that says that yours is the only way, and they have theirs which says EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
There is NOTHING wrong with living YOUR life as the book teaches you. There is nothing wrong with teaching others, if they'll listen. You can do all of this while living under the rule of someone who believes different, AS LONG as they aren't forcing anything on you.
I see no cutting-down of beliefs. I see a segregation of Christianity from Government and Government-sponsored organizations. How does not having a bible at school interfere with your right to practice religion? How does it affect your daughter? I'm 99.99999999999% sure that it has very little effect on her. You strike me as a decent parent, so I'm pretty sure that she gets PLENTY of info and explanation from you and your spouse. Am I correct? The burden of bringing up your child rests SOLEY on you, as a parent (oh, and your wife... Sorry, ). School SHOULD only be there for the 3 R's... Readin', Ritin', Rithmatic...
Originally posted by ray b: Christians CONTROL many countrys like IRELAND, in England there is a State Church who crowns the Kings, Spain and others like Italy only very lately regained control from church.France was a MOST CATHOLIC NATION untill a REVOLUTION ran out it's king and churchies in 179x. WHEN CHURCH had total control it was call THE DARK AGES 1000 years of evil run by church. YOU WANT YOUR FAIRY TALES TO BE OUR LAWS thats not freedom in any way shape or form. and very like Talibans program.
Wait, didn't I see this exact post like 12 pages ago?! You're a regular "top 40" channel, Ray...one small set of songs, overandover andoverandoverandoveran doverandoverandoverandover andoverandoverandoverand overandoverandoverandove randoverandoverandoveran doverandoverandoverandoverand...
Anyway, The countries you mention (and the dark ages) are CATHOLIC, NOT Christian. (if you can spout your drippel repeatedly, so can I, Christians are NOT Catholic, whether Catholics can be considered Christians or not, it wouldn't go both ways). I will NEVER make a statement testifying to the eternal virginity of a woman who is KNOWN to have had other children, so I could not become a member of that church, and would be booted from any "Catholic Nation".
...And exactly when did I say I wanted all the laws to be based on Biblical principles?! You're once again putting words in people's mouths...as usual. I thought you were opposed to "puppets".
BTW, Like I said before, NOT THAT YOU EVER LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT YOURDELF, the Taliban was NOT what was making Afghanistanis follow Islamic rules, gee, maybe the fact that they're ISLAMIC PEOPLE would have something to do with it?! Naw...never! .
[This message has been edited by TRiAD (edited 12-14-2001).]
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01:43 PM
PFF
System Bot
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
Well we seem to be back on topic now after abrief side track into Vietnam...
Triad, I don't recall actually ever seeing "Kill a Commie for Christ", but I do remember hearing "Godless Commie" rhetoric, so it wouldn't suprise me too much if someone used the phrase.
Rayb, This is the same point I've tried to make with you before. Even if that phrase was used, it wasn't the reason for the fight, it was being used to try and rally the troops. Most wars are started over the same basic thing, money!!! The religious spin is then used to make the general population accept it.
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02:27 PM
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
As far as I know the draft has always been used in the US in the form of a letter - it arrives in your mail, and you have a few days to report for service.
Nobody shows up at your door with the letter pointing a gun at your head.
you have plenty of time to flee if thats what you want to do.
This whole thing about putting your life on the line to defend someone else, who you are not directly involved with or related to
the thing is, if nobody comes to that persons aid when he is attacked, there will be no body coming to your aid when you are attacked.
Our states and our governments and our countries have agreements AHEAD of time that if one is attacked, the others will help defend. When a war breaks out, or a conflict, there is not time to gather public opinion, or to ask people one by one "will you fight, will you fight?..."
Thats the way its been in the uS for at least 100 years now. That is the security you live under, and the price of your freedom.
When push comes to war, if you want to flee, nobody is going to stop you or shoot you in the back. But dont expect the rest of us to put our lives on the line to defend the things you believe in, while you sit at home and ponder the ethics of it.
as we learned in pearl harbor, and in manhatten, you cant sit on your front porch and defend your interests with a shot gun.
Originally posted by TRiAD: Wait, didn't I see this exact post like 12 pages ago?!
Anyway, The countries you mention (and the dark ages) are CATHOLIC, NOT Christian. (if you can spout your drippel repeatedly, so can I, Christians are NOT Catholic, whether Catholics can be considered Christians or not, it wouldn't go both ways). I will NEVER make a statement testifying to the eternal virginity of a woman who is KNOWN to have had other children, so I could not become a member of that church, and would be booted from any "Catholic Nation".
...And exactly when did I say I wanted all the laws to be based on Biblical principles?! You're once again putting words in people's mouths...as usual. I thought you were opposed to "puppets".
BTW, Like I said before, NOT THAT YOU EVER LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT YOURDELF, the Taliban was NOT what was making Afghanistanis follow Islamic rules, gee, maybe the fact that they're ISLAMIC PEOPLE would have something to do with it?! Naw...never! .
WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHO IS OR IS NOT A CHRISTIAN????????? AS YOUR SIDE LIKES TO SAY WWJD ???????? NOT BE A MEMBER OF YOUR LITTLE CULT THATS FORSURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You keep saying in other threads i am EDS-B52 NO I AN NOT BUT I THINK YOU ARE A FAKE JUST HEAR TO POST BS AND MAKE THE CHRISTIANS LOOK BAD!!!! GOOOD JOB and thanks for showing how narrow minded they can be.
maybe you are a taliban, you have a very similer mind set and many common goals.
afgan's before taliban had radio and TV and women could work and didnot follow the laws VERY CLOSELY AT ALL same as they are now doing after talibans lost of control. TALIBAN THUGS WITH GUNS AND CLUBS were the reason and the "cops" inforceing the NEW LAWS MUCH like you say you want to DO here in MY HOMELAND NOW so you can prey in schools and jail doc's if they do what you want BANNED.
Anyone who has ever been in the military knows, when there is a conflict or battle, there is no opportunity for the commanding officer to sit down with his troops and explain everything that is going to happen, who the enemy is, why the battle is being waged, what will happen if we fail, what the other options are and then to ask each person their opinions and if they have any questions.
You have to accept the leadership of your commanding officer and do what he tells you without question, and without improvising your own alternative options.
The time to decide if you trust your governement enough to put your life in their hands is BEFORE something happens. If you wont follow a leader into battle then he doesnt belong in the captains chair in the first place.
If you dont trust the judgment of your government, then what the h#ll are you doing living in a country that they control?!
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04:43 PM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Oh, and what's the problem with same-sex marriage rights? How is that POSSIBLY hurting you? It makes THEM happy... Yeah, so your religion frowns on it... does it make it your responsibility to make their life a living hell? You say "hate the sin," but yet you do your best to deprive them of this one little hapiness?
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05:18 PM
Voytek Member
Posts: 1924 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by TRiAD: Anyway, The countries you mention (and the dark ages) are CATHOLIC, NOT Christian. (if you can spout your drippel repeatedly, so can I, Christians are NOT Catholic, whether Catholics can be considered Christians or not, it wouldn't go both ways). I will NEVER make a statement testifying to the eternal virginity of a woman who is KNOWN to have had other children, so I could not become a member of that church, and would be booted from any "Catholic Nation".
Gee, haven't we been through this before? To YOU, and in YOUR bible, Mary may be known to have had other children. To the Catholics, she has NOT had any other children. To SOME here, Jesus had a woman and had kids. To YOU or ME, he has not.
Triad, I agree with you on almost everything you say. Your posts make good sense and are well thought out. I do, however, feel rather disappointed that you insist on re-stating this opinion as if it were a fact. Kinda reminds me of someone else in this thread.
Let me say this one more time: Catholics are Christians.
Would you believe it if I said that 'anyone who doesn't believe in Mary's virginity is NOT a Christian'? Well, I won't say it and I don't want to get into this but it would be purely and opinion, whether mine or someone else's.
My point is that you are making a pretty bold statement that reflects your (or someone's) opnion ONLY. Yeah, you might tell me that you've heard this from other Catholics or priests or whoever else. Well, I've heard it from the head of the church himself: the Catholic church IS Christian. Christian does NOT have anything to do with believing in Mary's virginity or not. It has to do with living the principles of Jesus's teachings.
Now, I wish we could set this aside because I AM with you on everything else.
Ray - I think we've been through this a few times now (for about 19 pages), but let me re-state this again.
Christianity establishes principles that are for the good of the people. There is NOTHING in the bible that can potentially harm you or others.
People have been given free will and will answer for their actions, should the actions be against God's principles. It's as simple as that. I would still like you to define how all of the Bible's laws are bad for you.
Ray - I think we've been through this a few times now (for about 19 pages), but let me re-state this again.
Christianity establishes principles that are for the good of the people. There is NOTHING in the bible that can potentially harm you or others.
People have been given free will and will answer for their actions, should the actions be against God's principles. It's as simple as that. I would still like you to define how all of the Bible's laws are bad for you.
WHILE I QUESTION WHAT BIBLE TRIAD USES as a cathloic yours is the latin version and I know what that contanes MANY COPYS OF DO NOT ALLOW A WITCH TO LIVE in many places. alllso has the most blood in many places and times past some not so far past. like in1990's in centrial afirca3.5 million have died in the mess that started in rwanda and has spread to many other countrys of that region.THAT WAR WAS STARTED BY CATHOLIC priests in a power grab that blew up.
back to the BOOK and its evil effects READ A BOOK ON THE DARKAGE 1000 years of by the book rule of your church. SSSSUCKKKED BIG TIME why do it again now????????????? NOW BACK TO MODERN TIMES can't your dope of a pope count???way tooo many people now and the fool still said NO TO BIRTH CONTROL. on abortion I agree no pope will ever need one but what the F biz is it of his anyway to try to pass laws for unbelivers to be terrorized by???????? HELLLLLLL is terror plain and simple and nothing but terror and the way your church uses guilt is a crime tooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! FEAR OF RERUNS IS WHY I FEAR THE CHURCH!!!!! REMEMBER HISTORY OR REPEAT IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by ray b: WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHO IS OR IS NOT A CHRISTIAN?????????
Uh, I specifically did NOT say they were not Christians, I said Christians aren't all Catholic. Read it again.
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AS YOUR SIDE LIKES TO SAY WWJD ???????? NOT BE A MEMBER OF YOUR LITTLE CULT THATS FORSURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uh, now YOU'RE the one saying someone isn't a Christian...In fact, you've stated several times that Christ was the ONLY one. Hipocritical again, Ray. But typical.
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You keep saying in other threads i am EDS-B52 NO I AN NOT
Sure, whatever. You're both idiots hiding behind FAKE online personas. I've SEEN you type correctly, yet you insist on typing like a baffoon for shock value.
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BUT I THINK YOU ARE A FAKE JUST HEAR TO POST BS AND MAKE THE CHRISTIANS LOOK BAD!!!! GOOOD JOB and thanks for showing how narrow minded they can be.
If I'm a fake (and you're saying who IS and is NOT a Chriatian again, hipocrite), then you can't take my actions to show anyone as closed-minded but myself. Besides, YOU seem MUCh more closed minded than ANYONE in this thread.
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maybe you are a taliban, you have a very similer mind set and many common goals.
Only YOU would use this one on ANYONE. ESPECIALLY when YOU were SPECIFICALLY asked NOT TO ALREADY! I have emailed Cliff asking for him to deal with this. This is UNACCEPTABLE and UNCALLED FOR. I'm tempted to contact an ATTORNEY and see if I could bring SLANDER charges against you. How ANYONE can BEGIN to stand up for you after these slanderous remarks is BEYOND ME!
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afgan's before taliban had radio and TV and women could work and didnot follow the laws VERY CLOSELY AT ALL same as they are now doing after talibans lost of control.
I forgot you LIVED THERE and know this first hand. You ever hear of PROPAGANDA Ray?!
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TALIBAN THUGS WITH GUNS AND CLUBS were the reason and the "cops" inforceing the NEW LAWS MUCH like you say you want to DO here in MY HOMELAND NOW so you can prey in schools and jail doc's if they do what you want BANNED.
SHOW ME ONE TIME I SAID ANY OF THAT CRAP! Thugs with guns and sticks?! Go back to your Ruch Limbaugh and your conspiracy theories, Ray. I hope you have finally shown yourself for the worthless person you are, and people will finally see you are nothing but hot air and imagined enemies.
I'd go get a PSYCHE exam if I were you...you really sound like your're a paranoid schitzophrenic. Seriously.
Originally posted by ray b: WHILE I QUESTION WHAT BIBLE TRIAD USES as a cathloic yours is the latin version and I know what that contanes MANY COPYS OF DO NOT ALLOW A WITCH TO LIVE in many places....
Name ONE. Quote it, WITH reference. You WON'T, because you CAN'T, because it's NOT IN THERE.
Oh, and I use the NIV, look it up...it's THE standard non-Shakespearean languaged version. Nice ALL CAPS there, too...did you think I'd MISS YOUR POST or something? ...'Just an attention-seeking, sad little boy.
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12:58 AM
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
Originally posted by TRiAD: Name [b]ONE. Quote it, WITH reference. You WON'T, because you CAN'T, because it's NOT IN THERE.
Oh, and I use the NIV, look it up...it's THE standard non-Shakespearean languaged version. Nice ALL CAPS there, too...did you think I'd MISS YOUR POST or something? ...'Just an attention-seeking, sad little boy. [/B]
exodus 22-18 some say soceress means same as ones that say witch. all say "do not allow or suffer a ______ to live" a few add "among you" at end but most do not.
kj thou shall not suffer a witch to live ml allow no sorceress to live lb a sorceress shall be put to death rs you shall not permit a sorceress to live
any way you want to word it she is dead because they willnot allow others their own ways.
what is NIV can't finded it online my fourway is KJ, the modern language b,the living b, and the revised standerd v.
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 12-14-2001).]
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01:50 AM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by TRiAD: SHOW ME ONE TIME I SAID ANY OF THAT CRAP! Thugs with guns and sticks?! Go back to your Ruch Limbaugh and your conspiracy theories, Ray. I hope you have finally shown yourself for the worthless person you are, and people will finally see you are nothing but hot air and imagined enemies.
I'd go get a PSYCHE exam if I were you...you really sound like your're a paranoid schitzophrenic. Seriously.
Why are you taking this so seriously? Attorneys? What? Give me a BREAK. All ray did was call you an intolerant hate-mongering sob... Oh, wait... that IS pretty bad... But then, so was calling him a good number of the things you called him. It's name-calling, both ways.
It's turned into a pissing-contest. I suggest that all members involved kindly turn away, and put their respective organs back into the alloted storage space.
Funny how the REST of us have been conducting ourselves reasonably. I only see 2 names in all the flaming and name-calling.
CHILL OUT.
I think it's time for Cliff to lock this one TIGHT.
[This message has been edited by Mach10 (edited 12-14-2001).]
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01:58 AM
RossT Member
Posts: 3038 From: Bismarck, North Dakota Registered: May 99
Frontal lobe: Actually, Ike got th U. S. involved in Viet Nam by way of the CIA. He then had to brief JFK, when he was elected, about it & it was a suprise for Kennedy, as he knew nothing about it. That was back in the days when people could keep a secret.
Ken W.: You won't get much of an answer to your question on fighting for someone else's rights. I've tossed it out there several times, not many takers. It's every man for themselves nowadays.
Mach10: If Canada GOES to war you're ignoring it? If Canada is dragged into a war, then you're involved? 1. So, it's safe to say that if Canada's ally to the south goes to war OR dragged into it, you are a spectator/stay at home supporter at best? Certainly wouldn't want to go into harm's way for a strangers freedom or well being would we.
2. "If Canada gets dragged into a war...hockey stick etc.." By the time a govt or country gets "dragged" into a conflict, it's a good bet innocent people have lost their lives, property taken, shipping sunk, etc. Pearl Harbor-Lusitania-09-11-01. The meek shall inherit the earth-or at least a small plot complete with a headstone. Remember all the "How did this happen-why wasn't something done before now" questions from the victim's families on 9-11-01? How many thousands of Canadians would actually die before you concede that it's time to fight yourself? A number please, if you don't mind. I'd like an idea of exactly what price people with your view put on liberty. RayB posted a quote from an early president, Jefferson maybe. Something to the effect that if you suppress one person's freedom or rights, you suppress mine. I don't agree with everything Ray believes, but if a foreign entity infringed on his liberty, I would fight to preserve it, & I never met him.
"For those who fight for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know"
Originally posted by RossT: WTF!!! I got to check the OT section more often!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good, we could use some fresh input. Choose a topic: . How Joe Torma's ripping us on the price of a bag of popcorn-Harry Potter ticket sales . Devil's workshop or child's play?-dungeons & dragons- Harry Potter's influence on kids . RayB's view on religion vs the world (minus 1 or 2) sorry Mach10 (about 6 sub-categories) . New Testament math problem. 555+111= Who is the AntiChrist? . will it end today? Did I cause it?-end of times. . Clothes hangers & vacum devices-the 'A' word. . 'hell no I won't go'-objectors vs patriots (sunshine & otherwise)'VietNam' . Triad's view on religion vs RayB's view on non-religion. (enter this door at your own risk!!!) . Coming attraction-"But I never inhaled"-Cannibis legalization. . make up your own.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-14-2001).]
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Why are you taking this so seriously? Attorneys? What? Give me a BREAK. All ray did was call you an intolerant hate-mongering sob... Oh, wait... that IS pretty bad... But then, so was calling him a good number of the things you called him. It's name-calling, both ways. 
