Originally posted by ray b: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mach10: [b] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Cheever3000: [b]Ken & Mach10 have almost brought us back to the evolution topic. If we're just animals, then why bother with morality?
Why not?
[/B][/QUOTE] thats why laws against mans nature are wrong sex and sexcrimes are a good example. rape is a crime allways, but sex for cash is not ever a crime. unless you belife is to be in the way of rights of people to do what they want with their own bodys!!! laws that limit hurt are right. but laws that limit rights are wrong. even if the right is to hurt yourself, but yourself only, not others!!!! most are very afraid of real freedom, but as tom jefferson said "IF YOU LIMIT ANYMANS FREEDON YOU LIMIT MINE".
MJ ck out post at 1:31 this pm for anti-c attack,only wish I had the power but no such luck.
[/B][/QUOTE]Allright! Page 15!! Are you saying that sex for cash is never a crime? Or that you don't hink it should be? Prostitution is definitly a crime here in San Angelo. I read Voytek's 1:30pm post. I really think he was joking a little, he threw in the guy in the next office. Maybe he meant anti-Christian?? Regarding your last statement- be careful what you wish for. . A statement like that can get you called an anti-Christ, simply because you've expressed a wish to have that power.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-06-2001).]
Joe Torma: Got any tickets for Harry Potter? Is it sold out? Can I get them in advance somewhere with a credit card?? And what's up with the spell checker? It will only work halfway thru the post for me.
Originally posted by ray b: BUT I ATTACK ONLY BELIFE NOT PEOPLE and again you attack me not my ideas! and try to cencer what you can't debate the record is clear look at it !!!!!!!
OK
quote
Originally posted by ray b: your total lack of understanding and tolerance for others belifes is typical of christians in regaurds to any others belife or religions.and shows why they are a danger to all others. call them the devil and then kill them like they did in the past. wicca is not satanic and is much older than judaio-christian belife.and less of a danger to nonbelivers.
Yet you also say.
quote
Originally posted by ray b: if and only if your belife suports killing for god, and has a record of dead bodys in it history like bible does and most other religions do yes you are helping spread the evil. STONE THEM ALL only the one without blood on their hands are not guilty, as are all who suport ben lauden with cash or prase or in any other way.
Sounds like a lack of tolerance for another belief to me. You're calling religion the devil, and would kill people who kill for their religious beliefs, because it's alright in your beliefs. How is that any different than what you're complaining about? After you stone them all, stone yourself.
Just becasue you don't call your views a religeon doesn't mean that they aren't one.
[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 12-06-2001).]
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11:36 PM
Dec 7th, 2001
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I ask a related question in another thread. Never got much of an answer. If you accept the evolution theory or not, where did man get his sense of morality? Did man just one day decide we would not behave as animals? In other words, when & why did man cast off the law of the jungle,(survival of the fittest) and become compassionate? Animals do not really respect other animal's property, mates, food source, or territory. It happened long before the laws that RayB mentioned. Mankind had already acquired a sense of law from somewhere. I prefer to believe we get our morality and most of our laws from religion, our sense of right and wrong.
Didn't see it before. I'll take it now. (thumbs through mental catalogue to early Cultural Anthro texts).
The phenomenon is called altruism. In the human race, it's found in ALL societies that are known. The exact details do tend to vary.
Speaking from a evolutionary standpoint, humans aren't well adapted to solitary life. Poor physical strength is a big factor. As such, humans have always been in groups for the majority of their time. Now, to be in a group, it's not really productive to make yourself a burden. If people don't like you, they exclude you. Suddenly, you don't have any food, no security in numbers, and no tools. You are tiger-fodder.
SO, most "primitive" cultures have ingrained laws against gluttony, theft, and murder. All of these are actions that jeopardize the group. There are exceptions to this, but note that they are EXCEPTIONS.
So people have this thing called altruism. Ingrained to their psyche is the desire to help the group. Reciprocal altruism is practiced. I'll help you, you'll help me, or at least have REASON to help me if I need it in the future. Again, hard to make friends if you kick your neighbor in the nuts and steal his antelope.
Some exceptions: Population control. Female infanticide is a big one. Even today. A hunter-gatherer society can only reach a certain population. Women are (to a point) considered something of a burden. As child-care givers, or pregnant, they aren't so good as hunters. Mobility is reduced. (Should be noted that there are plenty of societies in which women hunt, too). Males are by far the bigger producers. Don't have to worry about being pregnant, strength is natural, no children to care for etc. So a society that has just enough females to keep the gene pool open, and plenty of males to keep it full is considered ideal.
But I digress. People have this sense of right and wrong as a throwback from the early (in genetic terms), pre materialistic/agricultural times.
As I said, IF you accept the evolution thing: At one time man was still a animal for all intents and purposes. Wild primates (monkeys) are our closest comparison now. They will kill, steal, take another's mate, without apparent reservation or guilt. We were were once like that. What changed us? Go further back Mach10. To very early man. And about what you stated in your last post: You were there and saw all that, I suppose? I'm just supposed to accept it, because you read it and said it? (It's hard to type with my tongue in my cheek)
------------------ Don't be so open minded your brains fall out!
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12:37 AM
JSocha Member
Posts: 3522 From: Felton, MN, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Originally posted by maryjane: Joe Torma: Got any tickets for Harry Potter? Is it sold out? Can I get them in advance somewhere with a credit card??
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
The requests have thankfully died off! I did see something hysterical Tues: This guy and his girlfriend walked in...the girlfriend looked pregnant, her zippered coat(yet it was warm out) sticking way out in front of her ...PREGNANT WITH BOSTON MARKET! Hahah.
Like we're stupid. I walked in to see them take off the coat and reveal their smuggled food. I just started cracking up.
Originally posted by maryjane: As I said, IF you accept the evolution thing: At one time man was still a animal for all intents and purposes. Wild primates (monkeys) are our closest comparison now. They will kill, steal, take another's mate, without apparent reservation or guilt. We were were once like that. What changed us? Go further back Mach10. To very early man. And about what you stated in your last post: You were there and saw all that, I suppose? I'm just supposed to accept it, because you read it and said it? (It's hard to type with my tongue in my cheek)
Jane goodall, or gorrila's in the mist chic and others study chimps gorrila and bonobo in nature and record how they interact as a tribe. they act more like men than you think.
a least science will learn from errors and try to inprove knowlage. and if a better way is found they will change the books. Mach10's anthro studys are best guess and hard to prove but basic truth backed by limited info we can find now. DNA as it is decoded will tell what evolved into what when as DNA records all past info along with current genes. the record is there we must learn to read it and will very soon.
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
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01:01 AM
Joe Torma Member
Posts: 3485 From: Hillsborough, NJ USA Registered: Jul 2001
Originally posted by maryjane: Wild primates (monkeys) are our closest comparison now. They will kill, steal, take another's mate, without apparent reservation or guilt. We were were once like that.
Seems like some people haven't evolved yet.
[This message has been edited by Joe Torma (edited 12-07-2001).]
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01:02 AM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by maryjane: As I said, IF you accept the evolution thing: At one time man was still a animal for all intents and purposes. Wild primates (monkeys) are our closest comparison now. They will kill, steal, take another's mate, without apparent reservation or guilt. We were were once like that. What changed us? Go further back Mach10. To very early man. And about what you stated in your last post: You were there and saw all that, I suppose? I'm just supposed to accept it, because you read it and said it? (It's hard to type with my tongue in my cheek)
Yep... Although my arguments will hold more weight in a couple of years... My first degree
And actually, these points are all taken from tribes that have been studied in HISTORIC times...
But, to go back further: -MOST social animals DON'T steal mate or kill each other without discretion. Especially primates. Most animals have a little aggression switch that turns off when certain submitance signs (take dogs, for eg) are shown. As for theft, again, this boils down to a comparison between mostly solitary and mostly communal animals. You'll notice that although a lot of scuffling about choice bits DOES go on, EVERYONE gets fed. I guess you could say that the closer the group gets, the nicer they treat each other. This is because as the group draws closer together, the more they rely on each other, and goodwill becomes a valuable commodity. As an interesting comparison, compare the interpersonal relations with people in a small <1000 town, and a large city. -There are plenty of societies for whom monogamy is a myth. But generally, monogamy is most common. Seems to be related to resource-management. It's easier to raise a child if the father knows that the child is his, and will provide for it.
go back as far as you like. The most valuable aspect of human development has been the forgoing of genetic evolution in favor of cultural evolution. This means that you can be whatever the hell you WANT to be, as long as it lets you survive. However, genes still have a functionn, and there is evidence of behavior having at least some genetic component.
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01:14 AM
Jaygee79 Member
Posts: 4259 From: Dartmouth, MA Registered: Mar 2000
OK, the "Beast" in Revelation is NEVER called the "antichrist" in the Bible.
there are a few places in Revelation where Satan is referred to. For instance, Rev. 20:2-3, "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. " it doesn't specifically say 'antichrist' but i think we can pretty much assume that's what it means. btw, the word 'rapture' is never used in Revelation either. it's a word that we use that means the same thing. we don't HAVE to use the same exact wording, as long as the meaning is the same.
Why is it I'm the only one posting Biblical references to back up my posts? What, you can say "Oh, he's in Revelations (BTW, there's no "s" on the end) how could you miss it?" Uh, go READ it again! It NEVER calls the Beast the antichrist. This correlation is one of MAN and is not supported in the Bible.
because i was at school and didn't have my cd-rom bible with me (and i believe this is answered above)
Jaygee...what denomination are you? There are VERY few (if any) prodestant denominations that believe in Purgatory. maybe Episcopals and Lutherans, but I'm not even sure about them. They are the ones that carried most of the Catholic beliefs with them when they severed.
no no, i don't believe in purgatory. i believe that the antichrist is to come as it says in Revelation (btw, notice no 's' there, just as when i posted before). I'm Methodist. used to be baptist, but I converted
At any rate, forget what you think you believe...[b]show me purgatory in the Bible!
how can i? it's not there. and anyway, I know what I believe. even if it doesn't exist, people can believe in it if they want. just because something doesn't exist doesn't mean you can't possible believe in it.
hey, how did I get involved in this thread again?
[This message has been edited by Jaygee79 (edited 12-07-2001).]
unless you belife is to be in the way of rights of people to do what they want with their own bodys!!! laws that limit hurt are right. but laws that limit rights are wrong. even if the right is to hurt yourself, but yourself only, not others!!!!
It's more complicated than this, ray, and it doesn't neccessarily have ANYTHING to do with religion. We are a social species, you can't entirely separate damage to an individual from damage to society. Some laws are meant to protect people from themselves, not so much for their own good, but for the good of society.
Drug use is a good example. On the surface it doesn't look like they're hurting anybody but themselves. What happens when they can't hold down a job because they're high though? Do we support them with welfare? What happens when they start stealing to support their habit or even to just live?
Similar arguments can be made for many other 'morality' laws. And ray, I know you usually take an all or none view, but please notice I said many not all.
Originally posted by rayb: ...MJ ck out post at 1:31 this pm for anti-c attack,only wish I had the power but no such luck....
Ray, NO ONE called you ANYTHING.
By the definition given in the passages I posted, you would qualify as an antichrist (a deciever and one who does not recognize Jesus as the Christ), but no one gave you any more credit than they would any street thug bashing Christ. I SPECIFICALLY said I would NOT call you an antichrist. CAN'T YOU READ?!
No one certainly "attacked" you. You're the only attacker here. Heck, you stated we (Christians) should all be KILLED...I don't remember saying the same of you.
Why don't you grow up if you want to debate with people. All you do is BASH people for their beliefs, and claim yours (but you have none?) are the only real way, and everyone else's religions (read; Christianity and Catholicism are NOT CULTS) are crap.
You don't even know basic terminology, "Cult" for instance. This is a real word Ray, with it's very own definition, and there are specific beliefs that fit into it, and beliefs that don't. You can't just call beliefs that aren't cults cults, and people who are in a cult have no real right calling their belief "Christianity". This is not MY doing, there are lines already drawn, and definitions have already been made. Some people here (mainly yourself) can't seem to realise this.
Your lack of proper terminology and improper uses of what terminoloy you barf up shows nothing but a complete lack of interlligence on the subject at hand, and add to that your refusal to type like a human being (except when you REALLY want to) make you a person appearing to not really have any real right or reason to even join in the conversation. You only want to offend people. That's all you appear to be here for.
You keep calling Christians "bin Ladens" and "murderers" and "cultists"...that shows tolerance of our belief, don't you think?! You're a liar and an ass. Not only that, but you must be the largest hipocrite I've EVER seen. WE'RE dangerous?! No Christian ever said you should be MURDERED for your belief! No, Ray, you're the only dangerous person in this thread, and I have no idea how Cliff can see to keep you around. For all we know, you're planning a lynching party for everyone who's spoken a word against you, and are a danger to our very lives. Going by your own statements, if anyone takes you seriously, you want to kill us all.
------------------
You know what though? Here's what REAL Christianity's all about...
I forgive you. Even though you don't ask or deserve, I forgive.
Not only that, I'm going to go a step further...
It is my sincerest prayer that in the coming days Jesus will bless and protect you, and show himself to you in a way that even you cannot deny. Just when you need Him most, that He will step in a save you. That this will change your life forever.
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10:26 AM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Originally posted by TRiAD: You know what though? Here's what REAL Christianity's all about...
I forgive you. Even though you don't ask or deserve, I forgive.
Not only that, I'm going to go a step further...
It is my sincerest prayer that in the coming days Jesus will bless and protect you, and show himself to you in a way that even you cannot deny. Just when you need Him most, that He will step in a save you. That this will change your life forever.
I believe we were told earlier to judge them by their actions, not by what they call themselves. This is Christian. Those who participated in atrocities and used the name of Christ are not.
I would like to take this opportunity to say how cool it is that this topic has been (for the most part) reasonable and flame-less.
Let’s see, you state you posted passages that you define would qualify Ray B as an antichrist, then follow it up by saying you didn’t call him one. You tell him to grow up, tell him he doesn’t understand basic terminology. Criticize his use of terminology again, tell him he; barf up shows, has a lack of intelligence, criticize his typing skills, inform him he has no business joining in on the conversation, and tell him why he’s here. Call him a liar and an ass, tell him he’s dangerous, and imply Cliff should ban him. Accuse him of plotting murder and saying he wants to kill all of us. And then after all that…you inform him what real Christianity is all about, and tell him you’re forgiving him (even though he doesn’t deserve it), and offer him a prayer.
Now I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that is how a real Christian treats a fellow human. I also have a hard time seeing Jesus talking to a non-believer this way either. However, I do hope your offer of forgiveness and prayer is serious. There’s a popular saying, if you’re going to talk the talk, you better be able to walk the walk. Your future postings will reflect your true Christian sincerity or hypocrisy.
Originally posted by DRH: It's more complicated than this, ray, and it doesn't neccessarily have [b]ANYTHING to do with religion. We are a social species, you can't entirely separate damage to an individual from damage to society. Some laws are meant to protect people from themselves, not so much for their own good, but for the good of society.
Drug use is a good example. On the surface it doesn't look like they're hurting anybody but themselves. What happens when they can't hold down a job because they're high though? Do we support them with welfare? What happens when they start stealing to support their habit or even to just live?
Similar arguments can be made for many other 'morality' laws. And ray, I know you usually take an all or none view, but please notice I said many not all. [/B]
IN your example it assumes that they can't work well,BS but THATS PROPAGANDA PUT OUT BY THE ANTI PEOPLE,{WHO ARE THE CHURCHIES} who allso want to test everone before they even get a job. Thats one way to insure no one even get a chance to show what they can do.IF they can"T stay sober 9-5 or whenever the work is to be done, fine they should be let go but most work strait and party on their own time HURTING NO ONE!!!! HIGH COSTS AND PROBLEMS ARE BECAUSE OF STUPID LAWS. HOW MUCH CRIME IS COMMITTED BY TOBACCO addicts? some want to ban them from working toooo now.AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SMOKING AT WORK BUT TEST TO SEE IF THEY EVER SMOKE at home THATS WRONG!!!!!!! just as is test for other things used on private time. WHY IS IT THAT CHRUCHIES WANT TOTAL CONTROL of all people all the time and have NO RESPECT for others ways.
I dont like to talk about this in public, cause people end up looking down their noses at me and think I am bragging and blowing my own horn
but about five years ago I felt i wasnt really doing anything meaningful with my life. I talked to a friend about it, and in an off the cuff way he said, well do something in your spare time, like work on something worthwhile, like starving children in Africa.
I dont know why he chose that example, but I ended up looking into exactly that, starving children in Africa, and I took it up as a personal cause.
Its really hard cause they are so far away, and you have to deal with other people, people you know you can trust, who wont just take your money and then tell you they are doing what you want.
But I did find a group to channel my activitys and money through, and it has proven very sucessful. They send me photos of the kids whos lives I have effected and its very moving.
Im not bragging here or anything, but the first year, through my efforts alone, all the way over in africa, I was able to starve 5 children!
and every year since then I have done more. This year I helped starve 47 children!
(is anybody laughing yet? :c)
ok I have a warped sense of humor - lighten up everyone -this isnt a contest, its a forum for exchange of ideas, and a place to get in a few good jokes here and there.
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01:05 PM
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
Ray, You argue that religious people should be eliminated (I believe you said stoned) even if they have never personally done anything based on the threat you think they present. Yet now you argue a crack head should be given the chance to prove they can deal with it until they actually do something to someone else.
The only thing you seem to question are the beliefs of others, never your own. The only thing you seem to wonder about is the logic and motives of others, never your own. Now the wierd part... I guess I can't argue with that!
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01:54 PM
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
A good portion of the Bible, Koran, and other religious books are laws. These laws were written a long time ago by men, the only question is whether they were devinely inspired or not. The laws that aren't obviously there to protect people from other people are usually there for the purpose of protecting society in general from risks associated with allowing certain things.
Why should there be a law against a drunk driving, until the person actually has a wreck they haven't hurt anyone else have they? It's because the risk they present to others is too great. The same principle applies to drug use, even though it may not cause problems there are risks involved. You can argue with level of alcohol or the types of drugs that present an unacceptable risk, and I might even agree with you, but surely you can see the principle here, can't you?
Good laws are nothing more than striking the right balance between the freedom of individuals and the safety of the society as a whole. You can argue with whether or not specific laws accomplish this goal, but to simply dismiss them all because of the source is very narrow minded.
[This message has been edited by DRH (edited 12-07-2001).]
Originally posted by DRH: Ray, I'll try one more time...
A good portion of the Bible, Koran, and other religious books [b]are laws. These laws were written a long time ago by men, the only question is whether they were devinely inspired or not. The laws that aren't obviously there to protect people from other people are usually there for the purpose of protecting society in general from risks associated with allowing certain things.
Why should there be a law against a drunk driving, until the person actually has a wreck they haven't hurt anyone else have they? It's because the risk they present to others is too great. The same principle applies to drug use, even though it may not cause problems there are risks involved. You can argue with level of alcohol or the types of drugs that present an unacceptable risk, and I might even agree with you, but surely you can see the principle here, can't you?
Good laws are nothing more than striking the right balance between the freedom of individuals and the safety of the society as a whole. You can argue with whether or not specific laws accomplish this goal, but to simply dismiss them all because of the source is very narrow minded.
[This message has been edited by DRH (edited 12-07-2001).][/B]
YES MOST LAWS ARE BASED IN FAIRY TALES IN THE BOOKS YOU SITE,and I want rational LAWS NOT GODS LAWS. MOST STUPID LAWS LIKE ANTI-DRUG LAWS are suppported by CHURCHIES.
OK lets talk about DRUNK DRIVER LAWS IF WE HAD CLOSER BARS AND CLUBS , no need to drive to get a drink. BUT HERE IN FLA STATE reg's LIMIT WERE BARS CAN BE 1500' OR MORE AWAY FROM CHURCHS is one STUPID RULE. THEN THERES ZONEING LAWS, NO BARS BY HOMES WTF!!!!! THE LAWS ARE INSANE and MAKE SURE DRUNK MUST DRIVE as they put bars too far away to walk to BY LAW. NOW "THEY WANT TO DROP THE ALLOWED LIMIT of % of alcohol from 1.2 to .8 to .1 with NO PROOF THAT .1% is needed or that low a number is even a real THREAT TO Others. I WANT TO BE SAFE FROM STUPID LAWS!!!!!!
Originally posted by ChopTop: Let’s see, you state you posted passages that you define would qualify Ray B as an antichrist, then follow it up by saying you didn’t call him one. You tell him to grow up, tell him he doesn’t understand basic terminology. Criticize his use of terminology again, tell him he; barf up shows, has a lack of intelligence, criticize his typing skills, inform him he has no business joining in on the conversation, and tell him why he’s here. Call him a liar and an ass, tell him he’s dangerous, and imply Cliff should ban him. Accuse him of plotting murder and saying he wants to kill all of us. And then after all that…you inform him what real Christianity is all about, and tell him you’re forgiving him (even though he doesn’t deserve it), and offer him a prayer.
Now I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that is how a real Christian treats a fellow human. I also have a hard time seeing Jesus talking to a non-believer this way either. However, I do hope your offer of forgiveness and prayer is serious. There’s a popular saying, if you’re going to talk the talk, you better be able to walk the walk. Your future postings will reflect your true Christian sincerity or hypocrisy.
You need to read your Bible more. No, it's not always nice. Jesus was a respector of no person. He called them "obstinant, belidgerant, wicked, broods of vipers..." need I go on? People have this western-ized religious picture in their head of Jesus as this completely complacent person...well, what can I say? From purposely insulting the Parisees, to overturning the tables in the Synagogue, to breaking "Sabbath" laws on MANY occasions, He was anything but complacent.
Yes, my forgiveness (oh, and NONE of us deserve it...that wasn't a dig) and prayer for Ray was sincere. It's people like him, who have the biggest problems with God, that He often chooses to work through. Paul martyred THOUSANDS of early Christians, before God knocked him off his horse, so to speak.
I hope this puts my pervious post in a clearer light.
Originally posted by ray b: ...OK lets talk about DRUNK DRIVER LAWS IF WE HAD CLOSER BARS AND CLUBS , no need to drive to get a drink. BUT HERE IN FLA STATE reg's LIMIT WERE BARS CAN BE 1500' OR MORE AWAY FROM CHURCHS is one STUPID RULE. THEN THERES ZONEING LAWS, NO BARS BY HOMES WTF!!!!! THE LAWS ARE INSANE and MAKE SURE DRUNK MUST DRIVE as they put bars too far away to walk to BY LAW....
...Apparently you can't go to a bar w/out getting drunk? (you may have a problem there...)
...And what about calling a cab, or having a designated driver?
I don't want to have a bar next door to my house(or to my church), do you? Really?
posted 07-12-2001 20:30 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stolen from GPL board LC
THIS THREAD NEEDS SOME LAFFS #2 is a reply to someones Q the rest are for fun
"What do I know about sex? I'm a married man." Tom Clancy
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things that money can buy." Steve Martin
"Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as meaningless experiences go, it's pretty damned good." Woody Allen
"Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand." Unknown
"If it weren't for pickpockets I'd have no sex life at all." Rodney Dangerfield
"My cousin is an agoraphobic homosexual, which makes it kind of hard for him to come out of the closet." Bill Kelly
"As the French say, there are three sexes-men, women and clergymen." Rev. Sydney Smith
"Bisexuality immediately doubles your chances for a date on Saturday night." Woody Allen
"Homosexuality is God's way of insuring that the truly gifted aren't burdened with children." Sam Austin
"I can remember when the air was clean and sex was dirty." George Burns
"I can remember when riding motorcycles was dangerous and sex was safe." Unknown
"It isn't premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married." Matt Barry
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease." Unknown
"My kid had sex with your honor student." Bumper Sticker
"My sexual preference is not you." T-shirt
"Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." Michael Sinz
"Remember, if you smoke after sex you're doing it too fast." Woody Allen
"Sex at age 90 is like trying to shoot pool with a rope." George Burns
"Sex is one of the nine reasons for reincarnation. The other eight are not important." unknown
------------------------------------------------------------ TRIAD I DON'T DRINK VERY MUCH or often AND YES I THINK EVERY CHURCH SHOULD HAVE A BAR NEXT DOOR. that gives the people a choise!!!!! NO LAWS AGAINTS CHURCHES NEXT to BARS DoH!! STONE THEM is from ROBERT ZIMMERMAN SONG RAINY DAY WOMEN #9 and 64 SORRY NOT ABOUT KILLING ANYONE or throwing rocks. ------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 12-07-2001).]
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05:14 PM
DRH Member
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
THEN THERES ZONEING LAWS, NO BARS BY HOMES WTF!!!!!
Ray,
You can't figure out why there are zoning laws, yet complain about the lack of rational laws.
I used drunk driving as an example of why individual's rights need to be restricted because of the risk that some actions present. You ignored the principle and went into a rant that apparently blames conservative Christians for drunk driving???
You seem to want laws that fit your lifestyle, with no regard to how it might affect others. It's ironic, that's what the conservative religious groups that you criticize so much want also. I think you have a lot more in common with the people you hate so much than you will ever be able to see.
You can't figure out why there are zoning laws, yet complain about the lack of rational laws.
I used drunk driving as an [b]example of why individual's rights need to be restricted because of the risk that some actions present. You ignored the principle and went into a rant that apparently blames conservative Christians for drunk driving???
You seem to want laws that fit your lifestyle, with no regard to how it might affect others. It's ironic, that's what the conservative religious groups that you criticize so much want also. I think you have a lot more in common with the people you hate so much than you will ever be able to see.
[/B]
IN S FLA ZONEING IS TOTALY BY HIGHEST BIDDER and not rational at all except about BARS.
DOESNOT EVERYONE WANT LAWS that favor them??? then why do they pay BUSH all those millions?
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
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06:04 PM
Voytek Member
Posts: 1924 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by TRiAD: LOL! AAAAHHHHHahahahahahahahahah! Eh, oh, whEEEEEeeeeeew! What a DOOOOOZY!
Hey, Ray, wake up, the President is paid a salary of $200,000 a year by the US Government.
And you know what?! [b]There IS a God and it isn't YOU!
(Thank God!)[/B]
BRIBS are the real $$$,$$$,$$$ or campaign contributions as they are allso called SALARY IS CHUMP CHANGE bush RAKED IN OVER $100,000,000 IN 00 CAMPAIGN NOT COUNTING UNDER THE TABLE AND P.A.C. MONEYS OR RNC PARTY FUNDS!!!!!!! MAYBE YOU NEED A WAKE UP CALL 9-11 was mine!!!! NO MORE EVIL BS, ABOUT ANY GOD or RELIGION's good ideas ALL ARE EVIL!!!!!
MR V GOD is not!! never was or will be WHEN I SAY "GODS LAWS" I mean LAWS MANMADE and CLAIMED TO BE FROM GOD.
Lisa WE need to go to PART TWO soon as this is tooooo long now.
I lived about 500 feet from a bar last year.. I was in res, and the campus bar was just across the parking lot. Thursday nights was pub night, needless to say I was usually late for my 8am friday morning class. Not because I was drinking.. but because so many others were... and they were very noisy. It wouldn't be uncommon to be still awake at 4am, due to all the yelling, etc. Didn't matter how many times I called security to send someone up to my floor to tell them to shut up, by the time the guard got up there, the people had quieted down.. but as soon as he left, they were loud again. I once had to get my next door neighbor to turn down his rap at 2:30 am.. it was so loud it was rattling stuff on my desk.
What does this have to do with this thread? not much, except that I don't want to live anywhere near a bar. They're noisy, and drunk people do stupid stuff. I don't want some drunk stumbling past my house and taking a p**s on my car or something...
on the topic of smoking bans.. I support them, within reason. If I go to a restaurant, I don't want to have to breathe in carcinogenic smoke. I expect that in a bar, so the rare time when I go to a bar, I put up with it. It still makes my throat close up and my eyes water, but I don't b*tch about it. As for other stuff, such as pot.. if I were to run a company with many employees.. I probably wouldn't care what they did on their own time, as long as they were able to do their jobs properly, and didn't bring any illegal substances/materials to work. Why would I care if one of my employees occasionally smoked some weed? Now if he came into work stoned or drunk.. then I'd care. otherwise.. governments etc shouldn't pry into people's lives, if no one is being harmed. that being said.. I favor stiffer fines for drunk driving.. If people get hammered and get home safely, and then spend an hour throwing up... what do I care? but as soon as they're in a position where their impaired judgement could harm me or someone else (ie. driving), THEN I care.
Originally posted by maryjane: Ray, do you by chance own a bar or tavern?
NO LAND SURVEY FOR GOVERMENT last job people BUG us to do BARs SURVEYS for zoning but cost of time is too much to search out churchs 1500' away. NO drunk driving bust ever.
RUSH IS A BIG FAT FOOL Republicans say they want less goverment BUT wellfare for the rich is real plan. Like airline bail out, but no $$$ for laidoff workers now. With no end to stupid laws about THOU SHALT NOT for working poor.
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 12-07-2001).]
Not even 'I' listen to Rush seriously. I need at least a little balance in things. I liked Imus the few times I heard him. Ray, I wasn't insinuating you owned a bar or were a drunk driver. I thought I had read in one of your posts that you owned a bar. I had already seen in your profile that you were a surveyor. I really think zoning laws go over the edge at times. There have been a lot of respectable small businesses forced out of operation because of zoning ordinances, without grandfathering clauses.
. A statement like that can get you called an anti-Christ, simply because you've expressed a wish to have that power. 
...PREGNANT WITH BOSTON MARKET! 
