quote Originally posted by TRiAD: "Let's be more friendly" Seems to me I was the one asking YOU to be more friendly in your debate with someone else a few pages back... Why isn't anyone asking RAY to be more friendly? If I posted that MY ideas are the ONLY right ones and everyone who doesn't believe them dhould be KILLED I guarantee you I'd have caught a LOT of flack! But Ray? "Oh, that's just how Ray is..." Whatever...

But you did... And you did I flacked you, 'member? You survived

You're taking this FAR too seriously.

Watch it Aus- I think you're getting the sharp end of the stick on that deal. He'd probably buy schlitz, falstaff, or something equally dis-tasteful. Oh, for a good bottle of San Miquel! Edit: Ooops, I didnt read the whole page--Adult content-view text at your own risk! http://www.zianet.com/tedmorris/dg/beer.html

"Makes Every Man A Tiger, And Every Woman Beautiful"

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-09-2001).]

Since when did Harry Potter become the energizer bunny? This thread just keep going, and going, and going....

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Triad - I know where your coming from, but ray b does not offend the atheist members of the forum so I doubt your going to get much support. Ray B has found something he is scared of and can not destroy so he does all he can do and call names.

Now I wouldn't do that MARYJANE.

AUS? Would you like another cheap PBR...err...I mean Fosters? hehehe

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Triad - I know where your coming from, but ray b does not offend the atheist members of the forum so I doubt your going to get much support. Ray B has found something he is scared of and can not destroy so he does all he can do and call names.

All I know, is that you cannot post anything on OT anymore with the word 'God' or 'Christian' in it without being immediatly
pounced upon as a lie or 'fairy tale' just because it contains those words. The person most predominantly doing it has no respect for other's beliefs, including mine, even though I have many times expressed the view that he has the right to his, and I support that right. I don't know why he is so scared, don't know why he is so rude. I try to be nice, have a discussion on face value, it doesn't work. He is obviously intelligent, well researched, just rude. If everyone else treated his posts with the same regard as he does others, the ACLU would be in here so quick, we wouldn't know what happened. He often posts half-truths with no corroboration.

This is the location of the old town of Terminal, Tex. It is only a few city blocks square, actually located on Midland Int Airport property. Near the intersection of 1788 and Business 20 (old hwy 80). Nothing there, never has been. There was a sign there last time I was there, nothing but houses and a few beer joints. I dunno, maybe we're storing nuclear weapons in people's garages now, who knows. Maybe in their spare bedrooms.?

Wow. been away from this for a while.
Where to begin...
This has been one of the most interesting threads I've ever seen on the forum, in my nearly 2 years of being here.
It *has* remained relatively low key, compared to others that I've seen. Especially considering the volatility of the subject at hand.
I will attempt to *not* drag this out. As I mentioned in a previous post, I was raised Catholic. Have been away from *formal* Catholicism for many years. Mostly due to laziness, I suppose. I pray on a daily basis. Frequently not prayers as such. Just conversation. "Hey. Thanks for letting that (whatever it was) work out." or "Please let me do the right thing". Stuff like that. I do profess to be a Christian. All the Christians reading this will understand. All the folks that are not Christians, well, that's cool. I won't attempt to beat you over the head with my beliefs. That's the best Christian that *I* personally know how to be. I was not put here to try to make you believe the same thing that I do. I believe that we were all given a choice.
Ray... I am truly sorry that you feel the way you do. It appears from your posts that you have read and researched a great deal. I think you are probably a lot more intelligent than we believe. Opinionated, yes, but intelligent, nevertheless.
All I can say to you is that the people who kill or victimize in the name of whatever version of God they believe in, have perverted their beliefs. A true believer knows better. Even if he doesn't want to admit it.
You sound like an interesting person, Ray. I'm sure you could tell me some interesting stuff, based upon your history. I hope some time to meet you and shake your hand. Drink some beers.
As an outsider (mostly) to this thread, I don't find anything I've read especially offensive. Maybe a bit reactionary (on both sides of the argument), but when you argue about stuff like this, it is almost always gets *loud*.
Just look out for old ladies and boxes of kittens.
I'll butt out for another 10 pages or so.

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Raydar

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

"Frequently not prayers as such. Just conversation. "Hey. Thanks for letting that (whatever it was) work out." or "Please let me do the right thing". Stuff like that."

IMHO, this is THE most pure and "real" prayer there is.
No "religion", no "I'll do "this" IF You do "that""...

It's nice to have met you, and an honor to call you a brother.

quote Originally posted by TRiAD: "Frequently not prayers as such. Just conversation. "Hey. Thanks for letting that (whatever it was) work out." or "Please let me do the right thing". Stuff like that." IMHO, this is THE most pure and "real" prayer there is. No "religion", no "I'll do "this" IF You do "that""... It's nice to have met you, and an honor to call you a brother.

I'll drink to that

Mach! Quit stirring up trouble.

Where's that Angel Smilie when you need it?

Yes Mach. Quit stirrin' things up!! (always knew he was a trouble maker, with all those little, un-ruly smileys mucking about)

MJ even if terminal was not the name of the town or city and not the official name of the base, as I read the story 15 to 20 years ago, maybe it is the name of the building used to store the h-bombs or a nickname of the base or area. ANYWAY do you deny the idea that SOME christians suport the HELPING GOD END IT ALL idea???
the rural tex geo is to what point?? the evil idea is the point not the towns name.
BUT I guess youall don't want to talk about that, even thou you ask the Q, about how will it end.
mr t you QUIT this thread on the first page before my first post and many times there after.

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Question wonder and be wierd

quote Originally posted by ray b: ...ANYWAY do you deny the idea that SOME christians suport the HELPING GOD END IT ALL idea???...

You KNOW the answer to this.

Teh answer is YES. In fact, even YOU, Ray, deny that ANY Christian could support that idea...

...since you admitted that you know yourself, from YOUR OWN earlier post...

"You shall know them by their ACTIONS."

Why do you ask the question when you have already admitted to KNOWING the answers?!

To get attention; plain and simple...

You're no different than the terrorists, in this respect. Try to offend, for attention.

quote Originally posted by ray b: MJ even if terminal was not the name of the town or city and not the official name of the base, as I read the story 15 to 20 years ago, maybe it is the name of the building used to store the h-bombs or a nickname of the base or area. ANYWAY do you deny the idea that SOME christians suport the HELPING GOD END IT ALL idea??? the rural tex geo is to what point?? the evil idea is the point not the towns name. BUT I guess youall don't want to talk about that, even thou you ask the Q, about how will it end. mr t you QUIT this thread on the first page before my first post and many times there after.

I'll talk about anything you want to. I originally asked the 'how, when, why will it end' question. As far as religious groups 'helping' God bring about that end, I personnally consider that ridicules. Your mention of it is the first I've heard. I really feel God will destroy the Earth in fire of some means, as it is my recollection from childhood reading of the bible that He promised not to do it by flood again. Can I prove that? No, of course not. It is my belief and my faith alone. There are countless things that can neither be proven or dis-proven about religious beliefs. That's what faith is. If religious belief was based solely on proven scientific values and principles, it would be of little comfort to it's believers. By that, it is harder to believe in an abstract than in a solid fact. A person has to have a need and a desire for it. I do- you do not. It's cool with me. Why did I go to the trouble to show you were mistaken about Teerminal? To let you know that just because you hear or read something- doesn't make it so. It may sound good in your story, it is just not factual. In fact, ALL of America's nuclear arsenal is built, assembled, and stored outside of Amirillo, Texas at Pantex Corp. Except what is actually on military bases or subs. It is not classified info. This is common knowledge, I'm surprised you didn't know it, before posting the Terminal post. You're a smart individual Ray, intelligent- maybe even formally educated. You do not have to appear offensive to get a point accross. Did past generations cause countless deaths in the name of God? Maybe- but I believe those wars would have been fought regardless of that fact, just because mankind is greedy and power hungry. Land, power, and prestige are the underlying causes of all wars. That & simple politics. If the Israeli people were athiest, the Palestinians would still want them destroyed, because they want the land where Israel now sits. More later, I'm being called away.

quote Originally posted by ray b: ANYWAY do you deny the idea that SOME christians suport the HELPING GOD END IT ALL idea???

Ray, I've heard of quite a few that believe that's how it will end. I can't remember ever hearing an accusation, much less credible evidence, that any group even claiming to be Christian was actively trying to make it happen. You seem pretty good at finding references on the net, how about posting a link?

Oh, and the actions of one or two lone certifiable lunatics don't count. It needs to be a group of people reported by a credible source to support you claim.

quote Originally posted by TRiAD: You KNOW the answer to this. Teh answer is YES. In fact, even YOU, Ray, deny that ANY Christian could support that idea... ...since you admitted that you know yourself, from YOUR OWN earlier post... "You shall know them by their ACTIONS." Why do you ask the question when you have already admitted to KNOWING the answers?! To get attention; plain and simple... You're no different than the terrorists, in this respect. Try to offend, for attention.

AS I SAID BEFORE THE FIRST AND LAST TRUE CHRISTIAN DIED on HIS cross "MAYBE".
I have never seen a claimed to be christian
that acted like a TRUE CHRISTIAN, EVER.
If they claim to be a christian THATS ALL I HAVE TO GO ON.

the big differance in my ideas and GOD IS ON MY SIDE TERRORESTS is no terror or GOD on my side!!!! can you say the same??????
HELL is terror that is used by your side all the time.
AT BEST MY POST WILL MAKE SOMEONE THINK at worst make them mad at me,
ALL I WANT IS A END TO TERROR IN GODS NAME
or as JOHN L SAID
IMAGION NO HEAVEN ABOVE US NO HELL BELOW
NO THING TO KILL OR DIE FOR!!!!!!

SOMEONE ASKED IF BUDDHA was visited by a angel NO. NO GODS NO ANGELS and NO DEVIL in BUDDHA'S religion only men.

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Question wonder and be wierd

Just adding in a post so I can say, I was apart of the Harry Potter post. Tell all my grand kids that "I was there" and had to walk uphill both ways just to watch.

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My Fast 'n Black Car
Kyle - 85' GT

quote Originally posted by DRH: Ray, I've heard of quite a few that believe that's how it will end. I can't remember [b]ever hearing an accusation, much less credible evidence, that any group even claiming to be Christian was actively trying to make it happen. You seem pretty good at finding references on the net, how about posting a link? Oh, and the actions of one or two lone certifiable lunatics don't count. It needs to be a group of people reported by a credible source to support you claim.[/B]

WAS IN A MIAMI HERALD NEWSPAPER STORY about the time of ronie rayguns first starwars idea. I AM UNSURE IF NATIONAL OR JUST LOCAL.
but if a person belives GOD WILL END THE WORLD SOON are not they a small part of this idea????

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Question wonder and be wierd

My quick answer to your last question is- no.
People have been saying, predicting, believing the end is near for hundreds, maybe even a thousand years. The term 'soon' is pretty vague, biblical terms or otherwise.
I was pretty scared it was going to end in the early 60's Cuban crisis. It didn't. Probably won't tommorrow. Might happen before I finish posting this. One thing for sure: None of us knows. I'm not real worried about it, because if I'm wrong, I'll just be dead. If I'm right, I have something to look forward to.
Edited for this: Ray, if you're asking if we're all are in a big hurry for it to end, I guess the answer,IMO, is still no. The fact that a person wants to go to heaven doesn't necessarily mean they want to go today, or hurry it along any. I think even the Taliban decided for the most part, Afganistan wasn't worth fighting to the last man after all.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-10-2001).]

quote Originally posted by ray b: AS I SAID BEFORE THE FIRST AND LAST TRUE CHRISTIAN DIED on HIS cross "MAYBE". I have never seen a claimed to be christian that acted like a TRUE CHRISTIAN, EVER. If they claim to be a christian THATS ALL I HAVE TO GO ON. the big differance in my ideas and GOD IS ON MY SIDE TERRORESTS is no terror or GOD on my side!!!! can you say the same?????? HELL is terror that is used by your side all the time. AT BEST MY POST WILL MAKE SOMEONE THINK at worst make them mad at me, ALL I WANT IS A END TO TERROR IN GODS NAME or as JOHN L SAID IMAGION NO HEAVEN ABOVE US NO HELL BELOW NO THING TO KILL OR DIE FOR!!!!!! SOMEONE ASKED IF BUDDHA was visited by a angel NO. NO GODS NO ANGELS and NO DEVIL in BUDDHA'S religion only men.

That's more like it. Civility returns to PFF

I'll have to say that of any of the posts you've made, I'll have to agree with this one best.

quote Originally posted by ray b: WAS IN A MIAMI HERALD NEWSPAPER STORY about the time of ronie rayguns first starwars idea. I AM UNSURE IF NATIONAL OR JUST LOCAL. but if a person belives GOD WILL END THE WORLD SOON are not they a small part of this idea????

I never heard anything about it. If it was a credible report there will be something on the net somewhere. It was your accusation, you should search for proof and post here.

How is that belief in itself neccessarily a bad thing? I believe the end of the world as we know it will most likely be from an impact by a large asteroid. Does that make me guilty of 'terminal thinking'? Does that mean I'm going to come up with some hair brained scheme to help the asteroid?

Just wondering if anybody here is taking Ener-X? Viagra? Prozak? Valium? Animal tranqualizers?

Might explain some things and why this madness continues to persist.

meybe the problem is they are NOT taking them

and you forgot my favorite, Ritalin, formerly known as speed!

How about a bottom line thrown in here - Logic and reason and science and emotion and faith all dictate that there should really only be ONE truth concerning God

and we have many groups with different understandings of God.

If someone is believeing something that is WRONG (incorrect) then they are conducting their lives based on MISINFORMATION

Working, raising families, voting, participating in organizations, and effecting the future of all life on earth based on an INCORRET UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY!

That the real problem, isnt it. from whatever you perspective is, if there is one individual or a group of people who are out there DOING STUFF, and its based on wrong concepts and understanding

isnt that potentially dangerous?!

and since we are a global community

dont they have to be stopped?!

and there is the problem - who is right? what is Truth? how do you stop the False Believers from destroying the world as we know it?!

I'm sitting over in CHAT. Anyone care to join me?

Just thought I would ask.

16 more posts to go before the 17th floor is complete and the 18th can be added.

quote Originally posted by ray b: AS I SAID BEFORE THE FIRST AND LAST TRUE CHRISTIAN DIED on HIS cross "MAYBE".

I can understand why you of all people would say this, but if you think about it, it kinda kills your whole belief system, doesn't it? "Christians are evil, blahblahblah" doesn't go very far is Christ was the only one.

quote I have never seen a claimed to be christian that acted like a TRUE CHRISTIAN, EVER. If they claim to be a christian THATS ALL I HAVE TO GO ON.

Ah, yes, there's your excuse, BUT you've already found the truth of the matter, that what they SAY doesn't matter, so you CANNOT in good faith continue to let people who "claim" to be Christians confuse you...you know they're not, unless their actions support it.
If I claim to BE A COW, you won't believe ME, would you?! How is some psycho "acting in the Name of God" any different?

quote the big differance in my ideas and GOD IS ON MY SIDE TERRORESTS is no terror or GOD on my side!!!! can you say the same?????? HELL is terror that is used by your side all the time.

"No terror on your side"?! You said we should all die! That's terror, big boy!
"God is not on your side"? You got that one right...BUT, He still oves you and sent His Son to die for you.
"Can I say no terror on my side"? Well, YES. I have never in my life threatened ANYONE, nor would I. You see, that's not how Christianity works. We don't kill and destroy, contrary to YOUR beliefs.
"Hell...used by my side..." Uh, NO. And you know better. Terrorism is used by confused and deceived extremists who have lost ANY identity with Christ.

quote AT BEST MY POST WILL MAKE SOMEONE THINK at worst make them mad at me, ALL I WANT IS A END TO TERROR IN GODS NAME or as JOHN L SAID IMAGION NO HEAVEN ABOVE US NO HELL BELOW NO THING TO KILL OR DIE FOR!!!!!!

Where's that BS smiley when I need it?! People still kill and die every day for politics, money, anger, mental disease, etc.
Trust me (like you could let yourself trust anyone), God is the LEAST of your problems...You have free will, and HE won't come hunt you down for not following Him...

quote SOMEONE ASKED IF BUDDHA was visited by a angel NO. NO GODS NO ANGELS and NO DEVIL in BUDDHA'S religion only men.

Budhism isn't really a religion (IMO). (flame suit ON). Now, it is contrary to the teachings of the Bible, but it is a philosophy, and there's a difference.

That said, Budhism does not mention angels, but it has reference to gods, so there, you're wrong.

Now it's interesting to me that you dismiss the Book of Revelation as "a dream John had", but you take the thoughts of a self-starving, halucinating Prince-gone-rogue out in the woods, as a good donctrine, sonce you mistakenly thing it's all about men, and not god(s).
BTW, Budhists have killed their enemies, too. Read you history.

Nothing to say... Just noticed this would be post 666...

Buddahist believe in re-incarnation - you keep coming back and coming back, and you 'evolve' a little more each time.

eventually you become God-like - which is what Buddah was suppose to be, one who had reached that god-like level in his personal evolution.

isnt that religion?! isnt He essentailly saying "I have become god(like) and so can you?!"

you want links to end times belivers here are some.
" TARGET=_blank>http://www.athensnewspapers.com/1997/102697/1026.a3thirdmill.html[/URL]

" TARGET=_blank>http://www.rickross.com/reference/endtimes1.html[/URL]
[URL=http://www.csj.org/infoserv_groups/grp_biblebased/endtime/grpindex_endtime.htmhttp://www.epals.com/20thcentury/centstories/102697religion.html]

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Question wonder and be wierd

[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 12-10-2001).]

quote Originally posted by TRiAD: I can understand why you of all people would say this, but if you think about it, it kinda kills your whole belief system, doesn't it? "Christians are evil, blahblahblah" doesn't go very far is Christ was the only one. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have never seen a claimed to be christian that acted like a TRUE CHRISTIAN, EVER. If they claim to be a christian THATS ALL I HAVE TO GO ON. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah, yes, there's your excuse, BUT you've already found the truth of the matter, that what they SAY doesn't matter, so you CANNOT in good faith continue to let people who "claim" to be Christians confuse you...you know they're not, unless their actions support it. If I claim to BE A COW, you won't believe ME, would you?! How is some psycho "acting in the Name of God" any different? quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the big differance in my ideas and GOD IS ON MY SIDE TERRORESTS is no terror or GOD on my side!!!! can you say the same?????? HELL is terror that is used by your side all the time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "No terror on your side"?! You said we should all die! That's terror, big boy! "God is not on your side"? You got that one right...BUT, He still oves you and sent His Son to die for you. "Can I say no terror on my side"? Well, YES. I have never in my life threatened ANYONE, nor would I. You see, that's not how Christianity works. We don't kill and destroy, contrary to YOUR beliefs. "Hell...used by my side..." Uh, NO. And you know better. Terrorism is used by confused and deceived extremists who have lost ANY identity with Christ. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AT BEST MY POST WILL MAKE SOMEONE THINK at worst make them mad at me, ALL I WANT IS A END TO TERROR IN GODS NAME or as JOHN L SAID IMAGION NO HEAVEN ABOVE US NO HELL BELOW NO THING TO KILL OR DIE FOR!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where's that BS smiley when I need it?! People still kill and die every day for politics, money, anger, mental disease, etc. Trust me (like you could let yourself trust anyone), God is the LEAST of your problems...You have free will, and HE won't come hunt you down for not following Him... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOMEONE ASKED IF BUDDHA was visited by a angel NO. NO GODS NO ANGELS and NO DEVIL in BUDDHA'S religion only men. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Budhism isn't really a religion (IMO). (flame suit ON). Now, it is contrary to the teachings of the Bible, but it is a philosophy, and there's a difference. That said, Budhism does not mention angels, but it has reference to gods, so there, you're wrong. Now it's interesting to me that you dismiss the Book of Revelation as "a dream John had", but you take the thoughts of a self-starving, halucinating Prince-gone-rogue out in the woods, as a good donctrine, sonce you mistakenly thing it's all about men, and not god(s). BTW, Budhists have killed their enemies, too. Read you history.

Well said, Triad. Man, I've stopped reading for a weekend and missed an interesting discussion.

Someone (or 2 people) called Ray intelligent.

INTELLIGENCE (as defined by Oxford dictionary): a. intelect; understanding b. quickness of understanding

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Ray showing ANY , and I MEAN ANY Understanding.

It's a constant, mindless repetition of the same ideas AND CONTRADICTIONS!!!!

Ray - you've been caught contradicting yourself waaaay too many times. There comes a time in a man's life to admit when he's not 100% right on everything.

THE TIME IS NOW, RAY!!! Unless, of'course you want us to believe that atheists are pompous extremists with hate towards Christians on their minds. Out of ALL your posts, this is the message you have conveyed to me.

BTW - you still haven't addressed my post about 'man's and God's laws'. Which is it you believe in? Yeah, I've seen your half-a$$ed reply. It didn't clarify your position.

[This message has been edited by Voytek (edited 12-10-2001).]

So...

""There's generally an element of ego involved for anybody who believes," says Stephen O'Leary of the University of Southern California, author of "Arguing the Apocalypse: A Theory of Millennial Rhetoric." And many leaders believe that "the crisis must happen while I am alive," he says."

...ONE GUY trying to sell books making an uncoroborated statement about these supposed "leaders" is the basis for your fears?

Are you still afraid of the dark, too?

This was the ONLY thing on that article that dealt with anyone wanting to "help" the 2nd coming happen...
Everyone else discussed is simply hoping He'll hold off for a bit "Come soon, Jesus, but wait a little while", so they can convert more people.

...And these are fringe groups, to boot!

quote Originally posted by Voytek: Someone (or 2 people) called Ray intelligent. INTELLIGENCE (as defined by Oxford dictionary): a. intelect; understanding b. quickness of understanding Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Ray showing ANY, and I MEAN ANY Understanding.

That's all well and good.

I stand by my statement. For no logical reason whatsoever. I've just got a feeling. I think that his lack of typed grammatical skills might be deceiving.
At the very least, he'd have to be very interesting to talk with.

But then again, I can agree to disagree, or just change the subject.

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Raydar

From the Department of Redundancy Department.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-10-2001).]

Ray,

I don't see anything in either link about helping God with the destruction of the world. I don't think anyone will argue that there are some people out there that think the end is near and think all should prepare for it. That's a far cry from trying to help bring about the end which was your original accusation.

Anarchist, who tend to have atheistic views, are far more likely to try to actively destroy civilization as we know it.

You still haven't answered my question. Why is what you call terminal thinking itself such a bad thing? I think we should all be living life as if it might end any time. Regardless of what happens to anyone else, for any particular individual any moment could be their last.

I click and read the first post on the first page, it's about Harry Potter.

I click to the last page and it's discussing Christianity.

I love you guys.

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It's sad, in the 20th Century, in the 1990's, we would have to still go the same bullshit route
that artists have to go, to get acceptance. If it wasn't for the independence, if it wasn't for the
small little cities, and the few little ghetto guys, trying to make music, it never would have happened.
Some of these guys will never make a dime, some of thse guys will be poor and die, alone.

But in the proccess, they've been the true renegades.

And the true rebels always walk alone anyways.

The Bible says that there is "None good - not one".

Although you can be born agai into a spirtual life, you are still subject to the same downfalls as everyone else.

You are still human, and you are still a sinner no matter how faithful you are. You can never be perfect, but God knows that.

Looking at it this way, if you call yourself a Christian, and you truely believe christ died on the cross for your Sins and was raised 3 days later, and you ask for forgiveness, then that is great!. Anything above that is typically icing on the cake.

This is to say that, as a Christian I will make mistakes, even big ones! . You can ask for forgiveness, and will get it.

But while God is forgiving, He can also be vengeful. One can not continue to commit the same sins and sins over again. This is hallow Christianity.

Be believing , your sole will be saved. For constantly asking for forgiveness for your sin which are only natural, you will be saved. BUT, while you are here, why not live the best life you can? Why get into heaven on the bear minimums right?

quote Originally posted by DRH: Ray, I don't see anything in either link about helping God with the destruction of the world. I don't think anyone will argue that there are some people out there that think the end is near and think all should prepare for it. That's a far cry from trying to help bring about the end which was your original accusation. Anarchist, who tend to have atheistic views, are far more likely to try to actively destroy civilization as we know it. You still haven't answered my question. Why is what you call terminal thinking itself such a bad thing? I think we should all be living life as if it might end any time. Regardless of what happens to anyone else, for any particular individual any moment could be their last.

well I don't feel like digging out a 20 or so year old newspaper story that may take a week to find, but dig arouind on the net and you will find all kinds of end times or doomsday christian BS here is a place to start
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/canada-03.html
http://www.gospelcom.net/cgi-apologeticsindex/dbman/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&keyword=temple+mount+faithful&mh=10&sb=4&so=descend&view_records=View+Records

AS TO WHAT WRONG WITH TERMINAL THINKING
were to start is the hard Q to answer.
HOW ABOUT KILLING ALL LIFE IS VERY WRONG!!!!!
or that why some think pollution is OK as the world will end soon anyway so why change?? or clean up, or stop more pollution,
as god will CLEAN UP FOR US SOON??????
GLOBAL WARMING is not a problem as gods coming soon to HEAT UP UNBELIVERS ANYWAY????

AND WHEN THEY SEE THEIR VERY WRONG WHAT THEN?
will they just move the date back a little and go on as before as it is only a little MORE TIME TO THE END ?????
LIKE THEY HAVE DONE FOR ONLY 2000 years NOW??
NO HEAVEN OR HELL THIS IS ALL THERE IS F-IT UP and WE ARE ALL IN DEEP S!H!TTT.

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Question wonder and be wierd

Ray,

The link you posted pointed out the Japanese cult that bombed the subways a while ago as a group that tried to help bring about the end. These people are a Hindu/Buddist fringe cult, not Christians. I still find it hard to believe that any group based on Chistianity would try to help destroy the earth. It's just runs too counter to the core belief of an omnipotent God that would neither need nor welcome human intervention in HIS plan.

I do see your point about the pitfalls of 'terminal thinking'. Personally, I don't think the average person worries a whole lot about those things anyway, regardless of their beliefs. How many people have you seen on here talking about removing the cat or the EGR? I don't think they're all end timers...

Alas, we see the "real" ray...

No real proof, just a shadow of an idea, in his head alone.

I've NEVER seen/heard any Christians or Christian group say "nothing matters, God is coming soon and will end it all anyway".

(But even this would not be the "let's drop the bomb and force the 2nd coming" you were claiming, ans still cannot prove...)

In fact, most early "green" groups were Christian at their roots, anyway.

There's a "Christian econimist" group I'm aware of that looks into how to "be good stewards" with their money while investing.
They check into the companies they invest in, and look for certain things...

They don't invest in companies that support (and any way) illegal activities, abortion, major pollution, destruction of natural resources (rainforest, deep sea, etc) and more.

From this group, I've learned that Mistubishi is THE largest polluter and destroyer of rainforest ON THE PLANET.
They are "black flagged" on this group's lists...

...Sounds like an apathetic group to me.

(by the way, Ray, "apathetic" means they don't care...but they do, I was being sarcastic, in case you missed it...as usual...)

I like Mitsubishi.. but I don't like pollution

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steve@fieroproject.com
http://www.fieroproject.com