quote Originally posted by DL10: I'm only speaking for myself but I think I could all get along fine with everyone listed in a face to face encounter. I think a lot of things get said on the Internet that would never be said in person.

This is true. All of the so-called Texas 5 are cool guys and you could sit and drink beers with them all day and have a good time. A lot of people get carried away on the internet.

quote It's just like the picture holding it up to jscott car, it fits until you try and mount it. He may be able to move all the mounting points on the window and make it work but that has yet to be seen.

This is what I've been trying to say also. The part above the door fits great...even to a "nats azz" but can all the mounting points be moved around in the door to make it fit that way when it's mounted? It hasn't been demonstrated yet on an Archie Chop. I'm not willing at this point and time to take the chance and be the first.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: This is what I've been trying to say also. The part above the door fits great...even to a "nats azz" but can all the mounting points be moved around in the door to make it fit that way when it's mounted? It hasn't been demonstrated yet on an Archie Chop. I'm not willing at this point and time to take the chance and be the first.

I guess that's where our difference in opinion of what the turn "fits to a nats azz" means. .

Here is a ton of gnats asses. I have a feeling a bunch of them will be needed. You know what I mean DL10

quote Originally posted by DL10: I guess that's where our difference in opinion of what the turn "fits to a nats azz" means. .

DO NOT QUOTE THIS OUT OF CONTEXT, MUST INCLUDE ALL CAVEATS AND CONDITIONS:

Best I can determine a gnat is about a millimeter wide, I assume his ass is about the same. The overall dimensions of Mike's glass, with respect to the seals, (WHEN HELD IN PLACE MANUALLY) was at least that close in my opinion.

THIS ASSUMES THAT ALL MOUNTING POINTS IN THE DOOR CAN BE ADJUSTED SUCH THAT THE GLASS CAN BE MOUNTED IDENTICALLY THE SAME WAY. THIS HAS NOT BEEN DEMONSTRATED YET.

Once Will's car is back in his hands them I am willing to bet this issue will be resolved along with another issue the car has. Then there will be some many shaking there heads.

I hope Will gets the glass...this is one time - don't want to be first.

quote Originally posted by blakeinspace: Ha! that comment made me pause too... I wondered who you were talking about Archie... I guessed: 1) F355spider 2) MstangsBware 3) Jmbishop 4) DIY-Stu ? 5) ? not that it mattered... but it did bog me down for a few minutes... For grins I came up with what I call the 'A-Team' 1) Archie 2) Curl 3) Troy 4) DL10 5) ? Not a bad thing mind you! I've met and enjoyed knowing all of you... just a very interesting dichotomy in the Fiero community. "I love it when a Fiero comes together" Archie... I tried watching the vaccuum process link from work... the company filter thwarted that idea. Thanks for the link though, will watch it this weekend. -edit, fix quote tag

1) F355spider
2) MstangsBware
3) Jmbishop
4) DIY-Stu
5) Blakeinspace
Could not get the Shirt in time but will work on it.

quote Originally posted by F355spider: Archie thanks for the idea. I am going today to see if I can get a t-shirt made up. On the back it will say "one of the Texas five" on the front a Fiero emblem. If I can get it done today I will wear it to the big car show tomorrow. No name calling here Archie I think you are one of a kind Oyea if anyone likes the T-shirts. I will get some more made up.

Interesting, I've addressed & given my view on everything you've posted in this thread & all you can do is threaten to make "T" shirts.

Why don't you show us a picture of your side windows from this angle?



Nope, more important to make "T" shirts.

I think you should make "T" shirts.

Try to make them fit without a bunch of adjustments.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Why don't you show us a picture of your side windows from this angle? Try to make them fit without a bunch of adjustments. Archie

Archie, my camera wasn't focusing too well in the pitch black dark, but here is the closest I got to that angle when I rotate the pic a bit, (and it's actually the driver's side reversed)

By with all my caveats... (ASSUMING THAT ALL MOUNTING POINTS IN THE DOOR CAN BE ADJUSTED SUCH THAT THE GLASS CAN BE MOUNTED IDENTICALLY THE SAME WAY AS SHOWN IN THIS PICTURE WHICH HAS NOT BEEN DEMONSTRATED YET.)

Mike's window fit's the profile of the quarter window very closely.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Archie, my camera wasn't focusing too well in the pitch black dark, but here is the closest I got to that angle when I rotate the pic a bit, (and it's actually the driver's side reversed)

I'm talking about pictures of his Silver car.

You know, the one where he has us looking at the reflections of the clouds in the side window.

You know, when they had the window held in position on your car, someone should have measured from the rocker panels up to the holes in the window where the fasteners go to see if they were parallel to the rockers. The stock Fiero windows have the mounting holes parallel to the top of the sill. When I took pics of mine the other day, We took measurements (& pics of the measurements) to prove they were being held in the car in the correct position. They were probably too busy slapping each other on the back to come up with anyway to validate the accuracy of their test fitting.

Archie

edit for spelling at 9:25pm CST

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 05-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Archie: I'm talking about pictures of his Silver car.

But this topic is not about the windows in his silver chop--It is about his windows fitting in an Archie chop. Let's stick to the subject and not change it like you normally do.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: But this topic is not about the windows in his silver chop--It is about his windows fitting in an Archie chop. Let's stick to the subject and not change it like you normally do.

Read the thread, the OP claims his windows are not flatter than stock windows.

I proved him wrong.

He offered up a picture that showed reflections of clouds.

Pay attention, I know it's hard, but try.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Read the thread, the OP claims his windows are not flatter than stock windows. I proved him wrong. He offered up a picture that showed reflections of clouds. Pay attention, I know it's hard, but try. Archie

They can't be any worse than the junk plastic windows you have offered for the past 25 chops. Hell even if the windows are a little flatter and require some door work to be done, they are better than the junk you offer.

Also you have someone that was there saying the windows fit the area of the curve nicely--What else more do you want? Just repeat after me: I am WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm, correct me if I am wrong, but even JScott stated he has no problem with the Lexan windows... I understand that it would be nice to see actual glass in place of Lexan, but holding it up in the full up position does not prove anything. I know myself from too many failed experiences that looking at things from that perspective is just plain stupid. It may look good on paper, but when you put it to the test (actually installing that window and having it work correctly) it does not work. Prove your idea before submitting an all out alternative.

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Phil
Always trying to create something new!
Philero ~ Phil and his Fiero, melding into one (soon to be my license plate too!)

quote Originally posted by Philero: Hmmm, correct me if I am wrong, but even JScott stated he has no problem with the Lexan windows...

I don't know if I ever said that or not, but the Acrylic windows presently on my car have been damaged due to neglect while the car was out of my possession. I think everyone agrees that glass is stiffer and more scratch resistant and therefore can be adjusted to tighter tolerances and potentially a better fit.

The main problem with all framless windows is that the window has to be positioned in such a way that when you close it there is enough pressure on the window against the seal, but not so much that the window sags or fails to line up properly. This delicate balance is more difficult to achieve in acrylic as it tends to have a memory and has to be "trained" into landing in the right spot.

If you look at a modern car with frameless windows, (think convertible) the window will automatically lower slightly when you open the door and after you close it the glass rises up to provide a better seal. Such a system on a Fiero (even a stock one) would improve sealing.

I personally am looking forward to glass windows and anxiously await the arrival of Archie's windows.

Yes JScott, I understand that non-post door windows have their issues, and that is what I was trying to establish. Just holding up a window to what would be the final resting place looks really good if it matches up. However, making it work in the whole (installed in the door and proving that it can be rolled up and down without issue) is a totally different issue. The point I was trying to make is an idea is great, but don't try and discount others products (which have been proven to suffice and are the only WORKING product available RIGHT NOW) with your own until you can prove that they actually work wholly.

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Phil
Always trying to create something new!
Philero ~ Phil and his Fiero, melding into one (soon to be my license plate too!)

quote Originally posted by jscott1: If you look at a modern car with frameless windows, (think convertible) the window will automatically lower slightly when you open the door and after you close it the glass rises up to provide a better seal. Such a system on a Fiero (even a stock one) would improve sealing. .

Agreed ..when going down the road ..the pressure diff after allowing the window down and trying to get it to seal while at speed is a prob ..my solution is to almost stop before allowing the window to seat on the seal to allow the press diff to subside

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Just repeat after me: I am WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, You are wrong.........We all knew that anyway, but thanks for admitting it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DL10:


.....Mike your latest choptop looks great......... [QUOTE]

Thanks, for the good words, my car won first place today at the AER show.

quote Originally posted by F355spider: [QUOTE]Originally posted by DL10: .....Mike your latest choptop looks great......... [QUOTE] Thanks, for the good words, my car won first place today at the AER show.

And you was able to drive it home while it was raining with no worries about getting wet. Nice to have windows that seal and not have a gap big enough to stick your finger in.

Car looked good along with all the others that showed up. Seen may people staring at the car trying to figure out why it looked a little differant.

A little! Heck we had a truck load of guys follow us to Alvarado from the interstate about 30 miles waiting for us to stop. When we did for a splash of gas they where all around that car. They couldn't believe the car next to it was the same car.

[This message has been edited by DIY_Stu (edited 05-03-2009).]

quote Originally posted by F355spider: Thanks, for the good words, my car won first place today at the AER show.

Congratulations Mike.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: And you was able to drive it home while it was raining with no worries about getting wet. Nice to have windows that seal and not have a gap big enough to stick your finger in. Car looked good along with all the others that showed up. Seen may people staring at the car trying to figure out why it looked a little differant.

Interesting... Like to see some pic.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: And you was able to drive it home while it was raining with no worries about getting wet. Nice to have windows that seal and not have a gap big enough to stick your finger in. Car looked good along with all the others that showed up. Seen may people staring at the car trying to figure out why it looked a little differant.

Yes we had a great Fiero turn out. My favorite part of the show was hanging out with everyone meeting new Fiero owners and when I drove by the Mustang guys to park and hearing the Holy S!@#%s come out of their mouths and see them grab their cameras. My wife took some video from inside the car with all the rain pounding the car will get it posted to Utube then link it here it was raining so hard my belts were screaming at times and we could not see the road at times but we had no water come in the car was nice after over two years and still no leaks. Not saying they could start but as of yesterday still good and dry. I only wish I could say that about my Corvette it leaks bad. I think I need to see if I can adjust them or maybe it is just the seals on it.

quote Originally posted by FierociousGT: Interesting... Like to see some pic.

I did not take any pictures being I didn't have a camera but I am sure someone got the picture. I am going to hope that the gap is from years of sitting and being mishandled being the gap was rather large.

quote Originally posted by Erik: Agreed ..when going down the road ..the pressure diff after allowing the window down and trying to get it to seal while at speed is a prob ..my solution is to almost stop before allowing the window to seat on the seal to allow the press diff to subside

I'm just trying to school myself but is it because when the car is chopped that little relief vent gets welded shut closed? Is that what that vent is for on the b-pillar?

Another question. When the cars get chopped and welded do they sprayed or painted with some kind of rust preventer? How do they get to the hard to reach areas to prevent rust in the future.

Dave

quote Originally posted by FierociousGT: Interesting... Like to see some pic.

I posted some pic here
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...0182-2.html#lastpost

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: They can't be any worse than the junk plastic windows you have offered for the past 25 chops. Hell even if the windows are a little flatter and require some door work to be done, they are better than the junk you offer. Also you have someone that was there saying the windows fit the area of the curve nicely--What else more do you want? Just repeat after me: I am WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have a problem. you need help, you should see a therapist. smile, you'll feel better. if you like your stuff and are happy with it then hooray for you. if you don't like archies or anyone else's products then don't buy it.

anyways an archie chopped fiero or a chop done similar to archies [like mine] require a window with more curve to use stock mounting points of the side glass and be more of a "drop in" option. a chopped window with a curve the same or very similar to a stock window is going to require modification to the mounting positions in order to meet the seals. it's simple geometry, the roofline angles are changed in a chop, so either the glass has to change, or the mounting position has to change in order to fit and meet the seals, period. there is no way around this fact unless you can somehow magically change the rules of geometry. something has to move or change.

mikes windows have a constant curve similar to the top portion of stock fiero glass [see mike's pics]. stock fiero glass has a compound curve [more curve at the bottom near the mounting points]. stock glass or mike's windows "dropped in" to stock fiero window tracks comes nowhere near the seals [see archies pics]. at the very least you'll have to modify the tracks and possibly the door handle to make them "fit" [see jscotts posts] .so if you want to use mikes windows you are going to have to change the mounting points. thus they are not a "drop in" option. ask mike he'll tell you this [see his posts]. end of story.

if you want to perfom the "modifications as necessary" then i'm sure mike or anyone else can get mikes glass to meet the seals. if you want more of a "drop in" option [little or no mods] for an archie chop or a chop done similarly to archies you need a window with more curve, especially at the bottom of the glass near the mounting points. in order for "drop in" chopped glass to fit to the seals and follow the chopped roofline as stock glass fits to the seals and follows the stock roof line you NEED a different, sharper compound curve. again there is no way around this.

again if you're happy with your stuff and it works for you hooray! give yourself a pat on the back.

archies group buy for glass is designed specifically for an archie chop to be a "drop in" option for an archie chop. this glass will also be a better [more of a "drop in" option] for any chop done similarly to an archie chop [mine], requiring less mods [for me] to make it fit. so, if you have an archie chop, or a chop done similarly to archies your easiest installing glass option will be archies group buy, and you should get in on it if this is what you want.

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88blackchopv8

quote Originally posted by Daredevil05: I'm just trying to school myself but is it because when the car is chopped that little relief vent gets welded shut closed? Is that what that vent is for on the b-pillar? Dave

The vent in the B pillar is at the bottom of the pillar, and it doesn't get welded shut. At least that's how it is on the 88...maybe the earlier models have a vent where the speaker holes are on the 86-88, I'm not sure.

quote Originally posted by av8fiero: you have a problem. you need help, you should see a therapist. smile, you'll feel better. if you like your stuff and are happy with it then hooray for you. if you don't like archies or anyone else's products then don't buy it.

Just passing time----

quote Originally posted by av8fiero: archies group buy for glass is designed specifically for an archie chop to be a "drop in" option for an archie chop. this glass will also be a better [more of a "drop in" option] for any chop done similarly to an archie chop [mine], requiring less mods [for me] to make it fit. so, if you have an archie chop, or a chop done similarly to archies your easiest installing glass option will be archies group buy, and you should get in on it if this is what you want.

Actually you're incorrect. Archie has already said his won't be DROP IN. But then again isn't there a reason that GM built the tracks with 6 adjustment points?

quote Originally posted by DIY_Stu: Actually you're incorrect. Archie has already said his won't be DROP IN. But then again isn't there a reason that GM built the tracks with 6 adjustment points?

And you can't mount Mike's windows in a Archie chop using those 6 points can you??

quote Originally posted by DL10: And you can't mount Mike's windows in a Archie chop using those 6 points can you??

I am willing to bet you can with little work---

quote Originally posted by DL10: And you can't mount Mike's windows in a Archie chop using those 6 points can you??

Have you seen that it can't?

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I am willing to bet you can with little work---

So you agree then that you can't leave the mounting points in the stock location and have them fit.

When Mike had these windows made did he design then so he had to move the mounting points in his car or is he able to use these points in the stock location in his car? I'm pretty sure all he needed to do in his car was get them to angle in more..........right.

quote Originally posted by DL10: But I have heard everything is bigger in Texas.

Not only bigger but faster also!!!!!!!!1

I can move the tops of mine nearly 8 inches by moving the tracks in the OEM slotted adjustment holes. The top of the window hanging out in that picture is just what he wanted you to see. But then again we also know that Glass windows cannot be made to go into a chop fiero because they're too thick. And that the Felt covered guides cannot be adjusted because they're welded in.

when archie said they weren't a "drop in" he was talking about the time and disassembly required to change/install door glass. what he was saying was that it's not a 10 minute procedure. read his post and you'll find that to be true. when I said "drop in" in my post i was referring to installing the glass and adjusting "within factory adjustment range" and getting the windows to seal and follow the curve of the body properly. i'm sorry i wasn't clear on this, as i assumed my explanation was obvious.

my bad, i'm sure you're a fairly intelligent guy, i hope you can understand it now.

archies group buy windows are designed to fit into stock position tracks and within the provided factory adjustment range be able to have the windows properly seal and follow the curve of an archie choptop. NO modifications to the track outside the range of what the factory had built in will be required to fit this glass into an archie chop. my chop is similar but is not an archie chop so i MAY require some modification to my tracks. to install mikes glass in an archie chop or my chop it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so without modifying the tracks BEYOND the built in factory adjustment range. mike himself said track mounting position had to be changed so much as to require NEW MOUNTING HOLES for tracks and/or track brackets. that doesn't sound like "original" or "oem" or "within factory adjustment range"or "drop in" to me.

i hope i'm now clear on this. if you have any questions on what i posted please ask. before you twist mine or anyone elses explanation of what they're trying to get across maybe you should ask for clarification from said individual so you can keep your facts straight. otherwise it just looks like you're trying to sully other peoples reputations for your own personal benefit or gain. i think you would agree that kind of behaviour doesn't reflect well on you.

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88blackchopv8

Don't change the subject just answer my question...When Mike had these windows made did he design then so he had to move the mounting points in his car or is he able to use these points in the stock location in his car? I'm pretty sure all he needed to do in his car was get them to angle in more..........right.