mikes glass vs. archies group buy for glass, pros and cons
Back to the windows Here are the pros and cons I see for Mike's windows that have already been made and Archie's glass windows that don't exist yet
Mike's PROS: cheaper.......... yes cheaper by $250, but not with the proper curve for an archie chop, or a chop done similar to archies [show me a picture of mikes glass installed with the door closed and how it fits and follows the curve against the 1/4 windows, if they have the proper curve that pic would prove it. i still haven't seen such a pic from mike or any of his supporters, not even one, and i have looked all over this forum for one. at least show me one pic of how it fits and follows the curve on the 1/4 glass of mikes own chop. that way we will know if it follows the curve of his own chop at least] you get what you pay for i guess
proven to fit a car chopper "close enough" to the way archie chops fiero's........close enough for who? you? well that's all fine and dandy for you and i'm glad you're happy with them. not so much for me, and probably not for archie chop owners. ask jscott what he thinks CONS: You have to adjust the window tracks and make room for the window by changing the door handle a little........adjust? i guess if by adjusting you mean modifiying the the tracks/track mounting brackets, door handle, and possibly cutting into the door bar. i think those are the only "adjustments" required to make them seal, let alone match the curve of the 1/4 glass, but you'll have to ask mike if i missed anything
Archie's PROS: should take minimal adjusting of the tracks if any................designed to fit his chop so they shouldn't require much adjusting, but they should follow the 1/4 glass curve much closer to the way they do on a stock fiero. will possibly require mods to work in a non archie top done similarly to the way he chops them. we'll have to see. i'll be putting them in my car once i get them. i'll take and post lots of pics from any and all angles and we'll all see how well they fit to my car. CONS: They don't exist.........yet, what more can i say. soon they will be available They will cost more........yes they cost more. again you get what you pay for
I don't see what the the problem is here. Buy which ever set will make you happy. Each of us will have to live with the fit of which ever glass we buy. i know who's set i'll be purchasing, and like i said above i'll post any pic you want to see of how they fit installed and closed. show me from any and all angles how mike's glass fits installed and closed
------------------ 88blackchopv8
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 05-04-2009).]
Yes-_Archees windows roll up/down but have to be trained to fit the door correctly. So when you get the car back, you have to hold to window in while rolling it up. It is a great feature for 4 grand.
WOW! This is news to me. I have owned the Stinger for over five years and never once had to do this.
What alternative universe do you live in to come up with this continued crap? I am still waiting for the lop-sided chop pictures since it was my car that prompted that slam of Archie's work. Umm lets see. I going to trust my money to a longtime, established businessman (THAT BUILT THE CAR) or someone that is less established and has what appears to be a personal vendetta against a competitor? Ummm. The plastic windows are such junk that I am going to put my Archie glass into storage for someday. They leak no more or less then the glass in my two stock 88's. If I nail the seal-glass edge area on any of them directly with water, under pressure, a drop of two of water may get on th inside of the glass.
Jeff
edit for spelling.
[This message has been edited by GTGeff (edited 05-04-2009).]
WOW! This is news to me. I have owned the Stinger for over five years and never once had to do this.
What alternative universe do you live in to come up with this continued crap? I am still waiting for the lop-sided chop pictures since it was my car that prompted that slam of Archie's work. Umm lets see. I going to trust my money to a longtime, established businessman (THAT BUILT THE CAR) or someone that is less established and has what appears to be a personal vendetta against a competitor? Ummm. The plastic windows are such junk that I am going to put my Archie glass into storage for someday. They leak no more or less then the glass in my two stock 88's. If I nail the seal-glass edge area on any of them directly with water, under pressure, a drop of two of water may get on th inside of the glass.
Jeff
edit for spelling.
You have other issues to worry about on the Stinger than the windows--Better give those attention first.
Windows are trained to fit after the swap is done for some time. The Stinger was on the road and trained long before you bought it.
Everyone that has bickered in this thread gets a plus. The enjoyment of you guys bickering is priceless. Please don't stop. I am not picking sides. Just like to read all of the drama.
Everyone that has bickered in this thread gets a plus. The enjoyment of you guys bickering is priceless. Please don't stop. I am not picking sides. Just like to read all of the drama.
Yes I have to agree. It's very funny reading the bickering between the parties and their web thugs. I don't understand how professional business owners can engage in this type of behavior, apparently shows an efford to trash this thread but don't realize it's trashing their reputation.
So where are those pics of the Silver car showing how your windows fit in your car?
Archie
You have 4-5 people who have seen the car and said the windows look great and fit the curve nicely--One of those people being a loyal customer(Jscott) but for some reason you still can not believe it? What is that?
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03:47 PM
whodeanie Member
Posts: 3819 From: woodstock,Ga.,USA Registered: Jan 2008
This is the first serious question I've seen in a while in this thread...
I'm thinking about something similar...
What if instead just the glass pressed up against a rubber seal the glass would rise up into a channel? This would work if you also implemented the system where the glass automatically drops an inch or so every time the door opens, and automatically rises when the door closes.
It would help the alignment issue for any frameless glass and leaks would be non-existent.
John..I think you could possibly take the control box of of the 2004 and up Mustangs and utilize it's feature that rolls the windows down about 1/2 inch when the door is opened. Just my two cents
why can't you just cut the side glass [old school] by using duct tape and a sand blaster?
i've never heard of this before. can you cut tempered glass this way? i think it will still shatter due to the way the tempered glass crystalized lattice is. any other opinion on this? if this does work you're going to go through alot of sand.
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
You have 4-5 people who have seen the car and said the windows look great and fit the curve nicely--One of those people being a loyal customer(Jscott) but for some reason you still can not believe it? What is that?
1 single picture showing how an installed window rolled up with the door closed showing how it fits to and follows the curve of the 1/4 glass is worth a 1000 peoples opinions on how they fit. why is it so hard post the pic? show me a pic of mikes car that shows this. at least that way we'll know how the window fits his chops. if you can't post a pic of this it seems like you're hiding something.
you're right most people could probably care less about any mod they would have to make to make them fit, as long as they could get them to follow all the curves properly. i'm not trying to call you out or anything but show the pic of how that window fits and follows the curve of the 1/4 glass when it's installed, rolled up, adjusted to seal, and with the door closed. even though mike's chop is wider in the back than archie's chop at least that pic would show how the window works and fits in his own chop.
seems easy enough to me. show me. it's not that hard to post that pic. end all the controversy with the pic. until i see such a pic they simply don't fit.
------------------ 88blackchopv8
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 05-07-2009).]
why can't you just cut the side glass [old school] by using duct tape and a sand blaster?
Been there done that little pieces of glass everywhere also if you try to grind it bam same thing tempered glass just does not cut sand or grind for me.
that's not the picture i would like to see, it hides how the glass and the 1/4 glass sit in relation to each other. show me a pic with a shallower angle but from the front of the car, looking back at how the window and the 1/4 glass sit in relation to each other with the window up and door closed. that is the picture i'd like to see.
thanks, chris
------------------ 88blackchopv8
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 05-07-2009).]
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07:49 PM
PFF
System Bot
DIY_Stu Member
Posts: 2337 From: Republic of TX Registered: Jun 2007
if that picture isn't good enough why don't you come look at my car. I'll be working on it all weekend and I'll let you roll the window up and down and open and close the door and you be you can see for yourself. I'll pm my number
could you repost that second pic? for some reason it didn't fully download. the first pic looks a little blurry so it's hard to tell from that one. am i correct in assuming these are mikes chop which is done wider in the back? what i am looking for is how they sit at the bottom of the window near the 1/4 glass. these may be pretty good for mikes chop, but a car that is chopped like archies, as mine is, i think would have to tuck the window further in at the bottom to seal with a window with less curve............... joshua i'd love to come see your car sometime. next 3 weeks are bad for me. i will get in touch with you to come see it at some point.
------------------ 88blackchopv8
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09:19 PM
DIY_Stu Member
Posts: 2337 From: Republic of TX Registered: Jun 2007
Here's something that might make some sense. Most after market quater windows don't have the same curve on the front edge as OEM do. So is it possible that F355spiders windows could follow the contour of the quarter window because his windows aren't curved as much as Archie's? Just my 2cents.
[This message has been edited by GODFATHER (edited 05-07-2009).]
Here's something that might make some sense. Most after market quater windows don't have the same curve on the front edge as OEM do. So is it possible that F355spiders windows could follow the contour of the quarter window because his windows aren't curved as much as Archie's? Just my 2cents.
it would depend on the way it was chopped. the curve is actually in the metal spaceframe. the 1/4 windows just follow the shape of the spaceframe. i don't know if mike straightens that curve out when he makes his wider in the back or not. i do know that mine, and i think archies, [archie correct me if i'm wrong on this regarding your chop] have the factory curve near the top but have a sharper bend towards the bottom, thus requiring more curve in the glass, especially at the bottom, to fit as a factory window fits.
quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:
The first isn't a chop. It's a 100% clean Stock car. Just for comparison
am i the only one who can't see the 2nd pic? could you repost it please? am i correct in assuming that 2nd pic is of mike's chop which is wider in the back? how does mike make it wider in the back? does he straighten out that curve to fit his glass?
------------------ 88blackchopv8
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10:44 PM
Mike Gonzalez Member
Posts: 5093 From: Colorado Springs, CO. USA Registered: Jul 2001
The second one doesnt look like a chop either to me, and the photo is edited that way...stu's messin with us
I want to do a chop on one of my cars, but i will wait till this glass debate is figured out, dont want lexan or acrylic. I would like to see more pics of Mikes chops, close up's from different angles.
mike g. i think you're right. you know the more i look at that second partial pic, i don't think that it's of a chopped car either. i think you mixed up your pics. see if you can find one of a chopped car with mike's glass in it from that same angle.
thanks for your time, chris
------------------ 88blackchopv8
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 05-07-2009).]
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11:11 PM
Philero Member
Posts: 390 From: Medford, OR, USA Registered: Oct 2007
I don't own a chop, nor will I any time soon (a pipe dream for me)... BUT
OMFG, you have got to be kidding me!!!! HMMMM, if I owed a product that I WAS WILLING TO PUT MY NAME ON I would give the definitive proof to the naysayers.... VIDEO of it!
You are obviously hiding something, or want orders to come streaming in (disappointment will obviously follow).
The fact that you can not even appease the simplest of requests shows one of several things about you and your product:
1. You are too lazy to take photos and show what perspective customers want to see (not a manufacturer I would trust or buy from)
2. You are hiding the fact that they are not perfect (not a manufacturer I would trust or buy from)
3. Are just being pissy and your product does work, but don't feel the need to justify yourself (not a manufacturer I would trust or buy from)
Get over this whole pissing match and PROVE what your product can do. If you can't, hey, I have a steering wheel that adds 150 rwhp that I will sell you for only $350.... trust me, it works!
------------------ Phil Always trying to create something new! '88 SE '84 SE '87 GT Extreme body mod and 2.8L Turbo Propane powered (in the garage and getting closer to being completed)
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11:23 PM
May 8th, 2009
DIY_Stu Member
Posts: 2337 From: Republic of TX Registered: Jun 2007
The B pillars still get leaned in. No straightening of the curve. F355 selling windows or chops has absolutely no effect on me or my pocket. I could care less if he sold chops. Less he sells or makes the less in the area.
I don't own a chop, nor will I any time soon (a pipe dream for me)... BUT
OMFG, you have got to be kidding me!!!! HMMMM, if I owed a product that I WAS WILLING TO PUT MY NAME ON I would give the definitive proof to the naysayers.... VIDEO of it!
You are obviously hiding something, or want orders to come streaming in (disappointment will obviously follow).
The fact that you can not even appease the simplest of requests shows one of several things about you and your product:
1. You are too lazy to take photos and show what perspective customers want to see (not a manufacturer I would trust or buy from)
2. You are hiding the fact that they are not perfect (not a manufacturer I would trust or buy from)
3. Are just being pissy and your product does work, but don't feel the need to justify yourself (not a manufacturer I would trust or buy from)
Get over this whole pissing match and PROVE what your product can do. If you can't, hey, I have a steering wheel that adds 150 rwhp that I will sell you for only $350.... trust me, it works!
5 people saying the curve looks fine isn't enough proof? One of those being a loyal Archee customer? I am sure Mike is not to worried about posting a picture as he really has nothing to prove. Like myself, Fieros are not F355s life line to making money so the world will go on if a picture isn't posted.
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02:20 AM
Philero Member
Posts: 390 From: Medford, OR, USA Registered: Oct 2007
The B pillars still get leaned in. No straightening of the curve. F355 selling windows or chops has absolutely no effect on me or my pocket. I could care less if he sold chops. Less he sells or makes the less in the area.
Sure why not.... I'll post pics.
The word I said was "VIDEO" Pronunciation: \ˈvi-dē-ˌō\ : a recording of a motion picture or television program for playing through a television set "or computer". (I added the last bit in quotations, trivial as it may be, but M-W is a little out of date. If you want to challenge that... fine, epic loss on your part) Why not end this all and show it in a video (Merriam-Webster definition provided above)? I am not trying to be an ass here, but really... if it works like you all state it does, end all controversy and show us a video of the product installed. Roll it from full recessed position to the full up position whilst the door is open and closed. This should only take about 30-60 seconds of time, easy to render and post, and no skin off you d1ck. Please, for the love of what ever you believe in, just post a video proving it works!
------------------ Phil Always trying to create something new! '88 SE '84 SE '87 GT Extreme body mod and 2.8L Turbo Propane powered (in the garage and getting closer to being completed)
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02:26 AM
Philero Member
Posts: 390 From: Medford, OR, USA Registered: Oct 2007
5 people saying the curve looks fine isn't enough proof? One of those being a loyal Archee customer? I am sure Mike is not to worried about posting a picture as he really has nothing to prove. Like myself, Fieros are not F355s life line to making money so the world will go on if a picture isn't posted.
You must be retarded! Would you seriously purchase something that five people said worked for them when there is so much controversy AND the manufacturer REFUSED (as well as these supposed "happy" customers REFUSED to post the pictures in the angle they wanted [let alone a video like I suggested]?) Either you are independently wealthy, have received an Obama Economic Stimulus Grant, or are a part of the Enron scam, because if you are willing to throw away money on an unproven product (try to think like the rest of the Fiero community and not like a bought out chronie), I really do have a steering wheel that adds 150 rwhp that I am willing to sell you. Trust me, I can come up with five people that agree it works!
------------------ Phil Always trying to create something new! '88 SE '84 SE '87 GT Extreme body mod and 2.8L Turbo Propane powered (in the garage and getting closer to being completed)
You must be retarded! Would you seriously purchase something that five people said worked for them when there is so much controversy AND the manufacturer REFUSED (as well as these supposed "happy" customers REFUSED to post the pictures in the angle they wanted [let alone a video like I suggested]?) Either you are independently wealthy, have received an Obama Economic Stimulus Grant, or are a part of the Enron scam, because if you are willing to throw away money on an unproven product (try to think like the rest of the Fiero community and not like a bought out chronie), I really do have a steering wheel that adds 150 rwhp that I am willing to sell you. Trust me, I can come up with five people that agree it works!
F355 didn't manufactor them--He doesn't have a glass factory!!!!!!!!
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02:58 AM
Philero Member
Posts: 390 From: Medford, OR, USA Registered: Oct 2007
Wow people. Really. You all can handle this better. At this rate, I wouldn't want to buy from any of you. Everyone is going to have a critic of their work. Deal with it and move on. A good product will speak for itself.
Two people I buy from are Rodney and the Fiero Store. I've heard critics (some rather mean) of both, but I still buy from them because of how they handle business and their customers. If this is how you guys handle your business and customers (or potential customers), I wouldn't want to buy from either of you, despite your product. Grown men shouldn't be this childish, especially over what's said on an internet forum!
Take example from Cliff and the folks at RFT. Cliff doesn't rehash their problems every chance he gets. He dealt with it and moved on, despite others bringing the topic back up.
I'm sure both of you do good work, but to make a good business you have to work on your people skills.
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03:47 AM
Philero Member
Posts: 390 From: Medford, OR, USA Registered: Oct 2007
Wow people. Really. You all can handle this better. At this rate, I wouldn't want to buy from any of you. Everyone is going to have a critic of their work. Deal with it and move on. A good product will speak for itself.
Two people I buy from are Rodney and the Fiero Store. I've heard critics (some rather mean) of both, but I still buy from them because of how they handle business and their customers. If this is how you guys handle your business and customers (or potential customers), I wouldn't want to buy from either of you, despite your product. Grown men shouldn't be this childish, especially over what's said on an internet forum!
Take example from Cliff and the folks at RFT. Cliff doesn't rehash their problems every chance he gets. He dealt with it and moved on, despite others bringing the topic back up.
I'm sure both of you do good work, but to make a good business you have to work on your people skills.
I really hope you are not talking about my comments since I am no reseller, or a manufacturer. If you are talking about F355 and Archie, then I would hope you would see if from Archie's perspective.... this is involving his reputation to a degree. Even though the product that F355 is in no way associated with Archie, it has his label all over it (according to this post). Any negative words associated with it can be misconstrued as his product flaw, which would be in no way his fault! Unfortunately, some people skip from page one to page (whatever) and get the wrong idea.
Trust me, I am a true believer in Archie. Anyone who answers his own business phone and is the owner gets Kudos in my book. But don't think that I am a flimsy consumer, I spend my money very frugally and do my research before purchasing anything. This is where I am having a problem with F355's product. Not that I am going to purchase this anytime in my near future, but I would hate to see someone spend their hard earned cash on a product that is misrepresented. All these people have asked for is a picture showing an angle they want so as to curb their curiosity about a specific gap. Why would any reputable person deny that? Has he not been given enough time? In my books, the answer is: "more than enough".
In addition, I would never create a post that shows a product that I am willing to sell (especially for a high price) without providing the adequate photos to back up my product. AND IF I WAS CONFRONTED, I WOULD NEVER HESITATE TO PROVIDE PROOF REQUIRED WHEN REQUESTED.... that is, of course, if I could....which does not seem to be the case so far.
I might eat my words later if F355 can provide proof thereof, but he will still get questioned in my book for waiting so long to provide something that literally takes moments to provide. That, I would imagine, would reflect how his customer service would be if I ever needed it.
------------------ Phil Always trying to create something new! '88 SE '84 SE '87 GT Extreme body mod and 2.8L Turbo Propane powered (in the garage and getting closer to being completed)
[This message has been edited by Philero (edited 05-08-2009).]
I really hope you are not talking about my comments since I am no reseller, or a manufacturer. If you are talking about F355 and Archie, then I would hope you would see if from Archie's perspective.... this is involving his reputation to a degree. Even though the product that F355 is in no way associated with Archie, it has his label all over it (according to this post). Any negative words associated with it can be misconstrued as his product flaw, which would be in no way his fault! Unfortunately, some people skip from page one to page (whatever) and get the wrong idea.
Trust me, I am a true believer in Archie. Anyone who answers his own business phone and is the owner gets Kudos in my book. But don't think that I am a flimsy consumer, I spend my money very frugally and do my research before purchasing anything. This is where I am having a problem with F355's product. Not that I am going to purchase this anytime in my near future, but I would hate to see someone spend their hard earned cash on a product that is misrepresented. All these people have asked for is a picture showing an angle they want so as to curb their curiosity about a specific gap. Why would any reputable person deny that? Has he not been given enough time? In my books, the answer is: "more than enough".
In addition, I would never create a post that shows a product that I am willing to sell (especially for a high price) without providing the adequate photos to back up my product. AND IF I WAS CONFRONTED, I WOULD NEVER HESITATE TO PROVIDE PROOF REQUIRED WHEN REQUESTED.... that is, of course, if I could....which does not seem to be the case so far.
I might eat my words later if F355 can provide proof thereof, but he will still get questioned in my book for waiting so long to provide something that literally takes moments to provide. That, I would imagine, would reflect how his customer service would be if I ever needed it.
Yes, in particular I am talking about F355 and Archie. I can see it from Archies perspective. He's not the first businessman to be in this position. Product and customer service speak for themselves. THAT is what builds reputation. I'm not an idiot, nor are his other customers. We can see facts as they're presented. We can make judgments about quality on our own. We don't need uncalled for personal commentary. Right now, I see two children trying to do grown up things, and that is discouraging because they both seem to produce very nice products. I would really like to see this end well, but the name calling and rather rude comments don't speak well on the customer service end of things.
are we still on about this .......???????????????
