1 day, 19 hours, 4 minutes and it is supposed to be in the 70's, sunny and clear Saturday!
Woohoo I own page 6

[This message has been edited by paulcal (edited 03-16-2005).]

Here's food for thought for you guys. I suggested to Frank that next year instead of the regular show, we do away with the intense show preparation and judging -- park the cars in a big circle (or concentric circles if there are lots of cars) with the back ends toward the inside of the circle - then stand/walk around all day (kinda like we do in the hotel garage area) discussing our Fieros (or cleaning them if you wish) and showing off our work. While we are doing that, we can vote for various prizes/trophies - not necessarily class trophies, but maybe even class trophies. I was thinking of no judging, but voting for things like Favorite Engine, Favorite Paint, The Car You Most Want to Take Home, Favorite New Idea, Favorite Interior, Favorite Sound System, Best Looking Driver, Favorite Front Compartment, Favorite Engine Swap, Favorite Stock Engine, Favorite Exhaust Sound, Favorite Hat, Gtound Effects, Wheels, Trick Custom Idea, etc. Any Interest/suggestions?

[This message has been edited by Tom Corey (edited 03-16-2005).]

Now I kind a like that, just relax and enjoy the cars all day. Good idea Tom...

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: Here's food for thought for you guys. I suggested to Frank that next year instead of the regular show, we do away with the intense show preparation and judging -- park the cars in a big circle (or concentric circles if there are lots of cars) with the back ends toward the inside of the circle - then stand/walk around all day (kinda like we do in the hotel garage area) discussing our Fieros (or cleaning them if you wish) and showing off our work. While we are doing that, we can vote for various prizes/trophies - not necessarily class trophies, but maybe even class trophies. I was thinking of no judging, but voting for things like Favorite Engine, Favorite Paint, The Car You Most Want to Take Home, Favorite New Idea, Favorite Interior, Favorite Sound System, Best Looking Driver, Favorite Front Compartment, Favorite Engine Swap, Favorite Stock Engine, Favorite Exhaust Sound, Favorite Hat, Gtound Effects, Wheels, Trick Custom Idea, etc. Any Interest/suggestions?

And by the way, the Dingman IMSA Fiero is all detailed and sitting in a secured airplane hanger waiting to be picked up and taken to Daytona for the weekend events...

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8T6 GT

[This message has been edited by red GT (edited 03-16-2005).]

Weather looks better. Still I'm sadly depressed. After 21hrs of work this week finally found out that my shifting problem is due to a bad (new) pressure plate or throw out bearing. Fork got stuck out so down goes the engine again but after maybe a month of resting as I totally exhausted myself and family trying to be in time I really wanted to take this V8 car but I guess the yellow one will have to do again...

PS: Change my registration to the "Display" class

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Weather looks better. Still I'm sadly depressed. After 21hrs of work this week finally found out that my shifting problem is due to a bad (new) pressure plate or throw out bearing. Fork got stuck out so down goes the engine again but after maybe a month of resting as I totally exhausted myself and family trying to be in time I really wanted to take this V8 car but I guess the yellow one will have to do again... PS: Change my registration to the "Display" class

Sorry to here that alex. I had the same problem. Mine is not a small block but, turned out my flywheel was rubbing the block and caused it to break. When you drop it, check for marks on the fly wheel. Mine was too thick, made in mexico not an OE flywheel.

I'm waiting to here if my car is done today. I was told to pick it up today but havnt heard anything in days.

I was hoping to see your car too. Anyway be carefull if you are planning to drive it to the show. You know that there is always potential for bugs. Still hope to see it there

I too was hoping to get mine done for the show but the motor decided it did not want to hold coolant. Looks like a lot of Swaps will not be at the show this year. Oh well, always next year.

If it stops raining today and drys out friday I will probably go to the show saturday.
When would be the best time to meet the most people?

I guess instead of sunblock we need to hand out mud flaps

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: If it stops raining today and drys out friday I will probably go to the show saturday. When would be the best time to meet the most people? I guess instead of sunblock we need to hand out mud flaps

Once again, you should trust your official Fiero Forecaster here - it will be pretty sunny, hi around 70, NO rain. You will definitely need the sunblock! And who needs mudflaps? Taht's what the sand is for in Florida - the rain goes right through it. Would I lie to you guys??

Unfortunately, I can't make the Daytona show, though we hope to have a few cars with our hi flo manifolds there for those that haven't seen one on a car. I will be going to Carislse and have a aquestion of sorts, being kind of a work-in-progress, like whose car isn't to some degree, anyway, I'm wondering which class to enter this year. The car is a daily driver and to some extent a test-mule for our manifolds other goodies, where would it be best be appreciated? Whereas the car's engineering is it's strong point, own design intake, DIY turbo setup with very functional fan assited intercooler and compartment venting, DIY headers, and... well, lots of other mods. If I recall last year correctly, the modified class went to a beautfully detailed and nice car, but it had very little in the way of creative engineering about it? In my opion there was a much more worthy car (not mine), with lots of great and inovative features and it look great too that should have taken the class. The modified class should be about inovative engineering and not how clean a car is, nor should it be about 'who can buy the most over-the-counter setups.' I'm still a ways away from taking any awards, but I would like to see rides like that one from last year hold a trophy up. I guess you can tell I'm new to the show circuit.

Weather is beautiful today down here in WPB and seems too up there at Daytona Will be leaving soon. C'ya

Kinda strange I posted something earlier on this
topic and it was here and now it is gone????????
It wasn't anything bad just a weather report.
Anyone else have this happening to them???

Well Off to Daytona

Sun has Arrived in Orlando!! WOOHOO!

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4.9 Caddy IN CAR!!!!! Coolant on Driveway! ACK!

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http://home.cfl.rr.com/fierose
Central Florida Fieros
http://www.centralfloridafieros.org

Proud Member and founder of the DOWN SOUTH SUNNY WINTER PICK ON SNOW PEOPLE COALITION!

Were all here in the hotel, weather is cool, looks like tomarrow is going to be a great day.
Will update with photo's later.

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More photos, http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=278279

quote Originally posted by CoolBlue87GT: Were all here in the hotel, weather is cool, looks like tomarrow is going to be a great day. Will update with photo's later.

Yeah, yeah..........rub it in!
We need lots of pictures!!!

Man it almost feels like X-mas,..hehehe can't wait to see all those great fieros tommorow.

Wish all you guys and ladies could come !

Just arrived at the hotel! We're staying in Orlando (actually Maitland) and will drive over Saturday morning to check things out. What time do the festivities begin btw?

--Tress

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I may not know alot about cars...but I make a Fiero look good!
"The Hottie" Coming Soon!

quote Originally posted by Miss-Tress007: Just arrived at the hotel! We're staying in Orlando (actually Maitland) and will drive over Saturday morning to check things out. What time do the festivities begin btw? --Tress

The track gates open at 8:00 AM.

Judging starts at 10:00 AM

6:30 PM Cocktail Reception (Holliday Inn)

7:00 PM Banquet & Awards

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: Here's food for thought for you guys. I suggested to Frank that next year instead of the regular show, we do away with the intense show preparation and judging -- park the cars in a big circle (or concentric circles if there are lots of cars) with the back ends toward the inside of the circle - then stand/walk around all day (kinda like we do in the hotel garage area) discussing our Fieros (or cleaning them if you wish) and showing off our work. While we are doing that, we can vote for various prizes/trophies - not necessarily class trophies, but maybe even class trophies. I was thinking of no judging, but voting for things like Favorite Engine, Favorite Paint, The Car You Most Want to Take Home, Favorite New Idea, Favorite Interior, Favorite Sound System, Best Looking Driver, Favorite Front Compartment, Favorite Engine Swap, Favorite Stock Engine, Favorite Exhaust Sound, Favorite Hat, Gtound Effects, Wheels, Trick Custom Idea, etc. Any Interest/suggestions?

Tom,
I very much like your idea of voting instead of judging next year. Popular vote of all driver's that enter the Fiero Show + we can have spectators voting too (all that come to look at Fieros can get a ballot to cast). I also suggest:
Voting for: Favorite Engine Compartment, Favorite Paint, The Car You Most Want to Take Home, Under Construction Fiero, Favorite New Idea, Favorite Interior, Favorite Sound System, Best Looking Driver, Favorite Front Compartment, Favorite Engine Swap, Favorite Stock Engine, Favorite Exhaust Sound, Ground Effects, Favorite Wheels, Trick Custom Idea, Favorite Shine, Best Displayed, Cleanliness Award.
I would also suggest that each car is limited to maximum of 2 awards per show- so more cars can win something. If there is a tie for an award, it should be voted on at the dinner by applause to break the tie.
I believe that inconsistency in judging in previous years at Daytona made some Fiero owners very unhappy. For example, my silver '87GT won Best of Daily Driver Custom Class in 2004, it didn't score this year because my class was unfairly voted by 2 set of judges where one judge made a 8 point deduction and the other 24 off my car. Very unfair and inconsistent.

BRYGIDA T.
Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

^ I second that idea. Sounds like it would be much more fun that way. The whole two sets of judges thing didn't make any sense at all.

Another input. If a car won best of anything in a year then next year should either be display class or maybe move up to other class if it applies. That will provide other nice cars to share the glory and make results more unpredictable

quote Originally posted by Tom Corey: Here's food for thought for you guys. I suggested to Frank that next year instead of the regular show, we do away with the intense show preparation and judging --

Tom and Frank, let me first congratulate you for putting on a great show.

Since I got called into service as a judge this year and my car was not really in competition I feel qualified to comment on your suggestion. I love it. I don't really like the stress involved with all the intense preparation for a judged event. I'm more into modifying and driving Fieros rather than cleaning them.

However, it would be nice to be elligible to win some kind of prize. The downside to voting is that you run the risk of it becomming a popularity contest where the well known people win over the newcommers. There is no way to make it perfectly fair, but I greatly would prefer a popular vote to judging.

- Jonathan

Why not add a peoples choice award? one vote per person. Or even vote for favorite among registered car owners. Since I walked away with a completely unexpected award this year, I can't complain about the judging at all.

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____________________Marty
The Pearl White GT Build Up

quote Originally posted by achawkins: Why not add a peoples choice award? one vote per person. Or even vote for favorite among registered car owners. Since I walked away with a completely unexpected award this year, I can't complain about the judging at all.

I suggest the People's Choice Award as well as one vote per person. I also heard that there were alot of unexpected awards given out this year. Some would complaint and some wouldn't. What's up with the judges???

quote Originally posted by Brygida Fieros: I believe that inconsistency in judging in previous years at Daytona made some Fiero owners very unhappy. For example, my silver '87GT won Best of Daily Driver Custom Class in 2004, it didn't score this year because my class was unfairly voted by 2 set of judges where one judge made a 8 point deduction and the other 24 off my car. Very unfair and inconsistent. BRYGIDA T. Palm Beach Fieros http://pbfieros.tripod.com

For all of you on Pennocks - I reviewed the judging sheets and in particular the sheets of the judge who took 24 points off Brygida's car. He was consistent in that he harshly judged every car in the class in the same manner, so in my view he was fair. Since there was no Best of Show this year, the number of points off in each class was also not an issue. However, Brygida's car was docked 6 points in error because I failed to brief the judging crtew that was added at the last minute that dashmats and seat covers were OK in the DD classes. I have offered to provide Brygida with the trophy she thinks she deserves. If anyone else has an issue with the show, all the folks who worked so hard to put on the Daytona event would appreciate it very much if you would send a PM to Frank or myself and allow us an opportunity to deal with your issue before the public whinning begins. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by Tom Corey (edited 03-23-2005).]

I would like to remind people that two sets of judges may have hurt some cars because the second crew was not informed about rule changes. I judged in the second crew and yes I was harder than the other judge I was with, but I was just as hard on every car that I judged. I felt bad for the cars that we judged because some of the cars we judged were the best in the class, but did not go home with an award because of the differences in judging styles of the two groups in the display class. I understand that no one people is to blame for this but we have to understand the error and fit it for next year. I only took off points as hard as I did because if I had continued to judge the class the right cars would have one. Interior was a big area for me someone. Anyone can buy a cover for the interior, but those that show their interiors I feel deserve the points. I also want to point out that Daily Driver this year was not divided into notchback and fastback and I feel that some people may have lost an award because of this. I will quote the class information that we pasted out to everyone: Daily Driver Class will be "Broke Down by Body Style" Notchback and Fastback.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: However, it would be nice to be elligible to win some kind of prize. The downside to voting is that you run the risk of it becomming a popularity contest where the well known people win over the newcommers. There is no way to make it perfectly fair, but I greatly would prefer a popular vote to judging. - Jonathan

I too prefer the judged show, as it is more fair to everyone.

quote Originally posted by Gold Class: I too prefer the judged show, as it is more fair to everyone.

I'm with you guys as well I prefer a judged show. The popular vote will be just that a popular vote. My car has not won at Daytona and maybe someday it will. But that is what a show is all about you go and do your best to impress the judges. Each judge is different and each has a different personality and your job is to impress them. I may not be the most qualified to comment as I have only been attending for 3 years. But this year I took part in helping in the preparation of the show ,all be it a very small part of it, and I can tell you that these guys put alot of effort into putting this show on. They are not getting paid for this they do it because they love these cars. I think each judge did the best that they could as they volunteered their time to do that job. My car did not win and alot of other Fieros did not win as well but to call it unfair and inconsistent is indeed unfair. I myself will do my best to make improvements to my car and will think of ways to impress the judges next year.

In response to many of the comments here on the forum regarding the judging.

Thanks for the complements. The folks that worked the show starting back in Oct / Nov of last year appreciate those words. The crew that worked to put this show together spent a lot of time and effort on it.

It seems that there might have been some problems – not only this year but in years past. Unhappily no one ever brought the ones from years past to my attention. Every year I request feedback, but get very little.

There were / are come comments regarding break down in classes. That is what Pre-Registration is all about. Unhappily there were not that many Fiero that registered to make a split bye body style. We have always wanted to give out as many trophies as we can. But you have to have Fiero to do it with

We have considered going to a popular vote concept. Something like the top 20 / 25 / 30 Fieros. It would be done with out any restrictions. That way all the cars stand on there own merit. It would make the judging a heck of a lot easier – there would not be any. It would eliminate the need for a lot of volunteers / cut down on the costs / allow those who work the show to relax a little more and enjoy it. We did try it one year but people stuffed the ballot box, so we stopped that idea. One thing I have seen is that every car that desires to be judged has a cash receptacle out in front and the proceeds are donated to a charity and the winners are based on the most amount of cash in the bucket.

Another thought that was given to me was to make the classes based on mileage vs. type

I like the idea of the circle that Tom advanced – but the parking committee would most likely draw and quarter me on that one. But it sure would be fun and unique.

“Another input. If a car won best of anything in a year then next year should either be display class or maybe move up to other class if it applies. That will provide other nice cars to share the glory and make results more unpredictable” This is one of the reasons that we had a display class out front of the winners. Many with nicely done up descriptions by Mitchell Bell

“Favorite Engine Compartment, Favorite Paint, The Car You Most Want to Take Home, Under Construction Fiero, Favorite New Idea, Favorite Interior, Favorite Sound System, Best Looking Driver, Favorite Front Compartment, Favorite Engine Swap, Favorite Stock Engine, Favorite Exhaust Sound, Ground Effects, Favorite Wheels, Trick Custom Idea, Favorite Shine, Best Displayed, Cleanliness Award”. Again great ideas – that way the people that get drafted from out of state do not have to judge cars either for specialty trophies

Personally, I prefer judged shows. I feel that they are fairer.

The most important thing though is to have fun – so if going to a popular style vote would help to make this happen, maybe it’s time to do so.
.
Just a couple of thoughts.

Thanks

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Frank

1986 GT - & - 1987 5 Speed Lowered
Signiture By Reality

1988 GT - T-Top
87 Coupe - Tilt Front End in Progress
2005 Dodge Magnum R/T

Hey guys, I prefer a judged show, too particularly when we can get enough people to volunteer and learn how to judge. If just half the whinners, complainers, critics, and people with better ideas would volunteer to judge, it would be a whole lot easier for those of us trying to put on an enjoyable event for them. But then they have to have something to whine about or it really isn't fun.

Hey guys , we enjoyed the show just as we always have in the past. I prefer "judged " shows over popular vote, mostly because they turn out to be just that , a popularity contest. That way , the car has nothing to do with winning, it's just the people voting for the person. Club members tend to vote for their club members , etc.
I didn't win anything , but really didn't know if I would or not. Actually , it's the first time in 4 years we haven't placed , and it's the best car I've owned !!
Only complaint I had about the judging was that I thought they had a 3 minute time limit on doing the judging. The 2 judges looking over my car were there for at least 10 minutes ! They had too much time to find things. I was docked points for my "brand new tires" for being "too narrow" on the front. I have 215/45/17's on the front and 235/45/17's on the back. Didn't think they were too narrow myself. Same size as the old tires.
But hey , I'll be back next year , and already look forward to it.
To Tom , and Frank , and all the other volunteers , my hats off to you !!!

This show is the best. People attending it is the best. Show coordinators and judges are the best. Do a "separate" popular vote trophy to please those who think they can win that, but keep the judging and classes and please "stop" giving people the judging sheets so they can stop whining and complaining about judges. Sorry, I had to say that

Let me just say, it should be judged. That's what it's all about. Everything I lost points on, I knew I had to work on. They even missed something (my little secret) that I expected to have a deduction for. No way will it ever be perfect, but also some people can't honestly keep entering the same unchanged cars every year and expect to place. We all want to place, but expecting it is just arrogant.

Sorry to offend, but it's starting to sound like sore losers to me.

Thanks to everyone that helped put on this show that I have really enjoyed the last few years. I hope it doesn't change.

Overall -- I thought the show was great. Great weather (show day), great turnout, great cars, and great people.

The only snag was, in my opinion, the judging in the Daily Driver class. Mixed judges in the same class caused a large inconsistancy in the point deductions. I'm not complaining, just stating the fact. Mistakes happen. The best thing to do is to learn from it for next year. Otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing.

Great job,,, AGAIN,

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Roy

double-click on this link to follow my interior build-up https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/023174.html

Blue 87 GT w/ 4th generation Firebird interior.
Suncoast Fieros

Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 20th Anniversary Show @ Pontiac, Mich - 7/2003
Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 8th Annual Fiero Fun Weekend @ Daytona - 3/2004
Judged "Best Custom Interior" at the 9th Annual Fiero Fun Weekend @ Daytona - 3/2005

quote Originally posted by mrfixit58: The only snag was, in my opinion, the judging ...

I know I was the easy judge in the class that I judged, but I was consistent. I didn't want to take points off for not cleaning something that I wouldn't want to clean.

All of the unhappiness surrounding the judging is why I greatly prefer a show-n-shine format. If you have to have prizes then voting would be my second choice. I know there are drawbacks no matter how you do it, but at the show-n-shines I spend about 10 minutes, 15 tops cleaning and the rest of the time enjoying the Fieros.

This was my first show and I did win a trophy in the daily driver class. I can honestly say that my car is driven every day to school and work. The only time it isn't is when it is under construction. In that case I use my younger brothers truck. I hope that nobody feels my car didn't deserve to win. I didn't know about the score sheets so I cant say what I was and wasn't hit on. I just want to thank everyone who helped put this show on. One of the best moments was Sat. morning as I pulled in to the show area I was greeted by Kento. He said "Bonzo". I have never met him but he knew my car.

Thanx to all.

I need a new sig.

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[This message has been edited by bonzo (edited 03-24-2005).]

quote Originally posted by bonzo: I need a new sig.

Why I like yours

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Frank

1986 GT - & - 1987 5 Speed Lowered
Signiture By Reality

1988 GT - T-Top
87 Coupe - Tilt Front End in Progress
2005 Dodge Magnum R/T

quote Originally posted by bonzo: I need a new sig.

Your present sig is one of the few that meets Cliff's suggested format ( no bigger than 6 lines of text etc.)

quote Originally posted by Phil: Your present sig is one of the few that meets Cliff's suggested format ( no bigger than 6 lines of text etc.)

But it doesnt have my Integrated Rockers or the smoothed in air dam. Oh yea! And my Mom's Durango in the background.

Bonzo

[This message has been edited by bonzo (edited 03-24-2005).]

Daytona has always been my favorate show. It takes many people to put on such a large show. I'd like to thank all them. There are many that you never see setting up the show through out the year.

I was a judge in 2003 and this year. It's really a tough job, I know each judge I've spoken to has tried to be fair to each car.

One idea for judging so many cars in Daily Driver class next year might be, have four sets of judges look over the four groups. Using the people entered in the DD class.

Example:

DD Stock Coupe ....................Use 3 DD stock GT owners to judge the coupes

DD Stock GT.........................Use 3 DD stock Coupe owners to judge the GT's

DD Modified Coupe...................Use 3 DD Mod GT owners to judge the coupes

DD Modifed GT......................Use 3 DD Mod coupe to owners judge the GT's

This way, each group are viewed by the same set of judges. Would take less time overall with four sets of judges.

There is a video that explains how the judging is done. Friday night before the show, it could be shown to the judges & people entering the show. That way everybody knows what to look for & what's being looked at.

What do you all think ? Could we get enough people to volunteer ?

[This message has been edited by CoolBlue87GT (edited 03-25-2005).]