03/29/03 - The Chicago winter has for the most part come to a close, and I've brought myself out of reclusivity and the blue monster out of hibernation. When I put it away in November it was at 6200 miles. The clutch is still holding up with absolutely zero problems and the Getrag, with GM trans fluid and output support bearings, still shifts smoothly and tolerates the abuse of this engine with aplomb.
The engine, however, is only about 75% dialed-in and is in need of some wideband O2 dyno tuning to get it 100% for this upcoming season. Can anyone recommend a shop in the Chicago/Rockford/Milwaukee area that can do wideband O2 tuning and deal with the reprogramming of a '92 F-body engine computer and MAP TPI setup? This is a removable EPROM chip-based configuration, unlike the tune-on-the-fly computers of '94 and later with MAF. I have tried the remote reprogrammings that use an inline datalogger or manual data chart, but those rely upon the limited feedback of the narrowband O2 sensor on the engine and can't get it as close as wideband O2 tuning can. This thing really needs a sniffer up the pipe.
Thanks, Dave
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11:48 AM
Mar 31st, 2003
FieroLT1 Member
Posts: 320 From: MilwauKee, Wisconsin, USA Registered: Nov 2000
Good to hear the monster is back on the prawl Dave.
As far as the PCM, I don't know of anyone here in the Milwaukee area with that capability. But, I would think in CHI, there has to be a few good pro-racing shops that will do that. Check with your local Vette club see if they know anyone.
Hope you come back soon even stronger.
------------------ Winston Ojeda 88 Fiero Formula LT1 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA http://www.FieroLT1.com Home of the Fiero LT1
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08:27 AM
WikedV6 Member
Posts: 271 From: Elburn, IL USA Registered: Jul 2002
Weekend update, I've been doing more tuning on the car over the past few days. Each time, I used the Corvette as my comparison. On Thursday, the car could of course beat it out of the hole, but the C5 would quickly catch up and pass it. Not a good sign. So I went back and worked on it some more. I found and fixed some problems and did more testing. By Friday it still wasn't keeping up with the Corvette, but I took it down to a hotrodder hangout anyway. I sent out scouts to sniff for a race, but couldn't get ANY takers at all. Everyone heard the car rumbling its way into the lot and nobody would touch it. Still, it was a fun night to hang out.
Saturday I put more time into it, looking for why it was lagging the Vette and running rich. I found a loose wire to the O2 sensor and burned off a bunch of soot on it. My initial test drives said it was a definite improvement, so late Saturday evening I lined up the Vette with it again to see. Finally, it beat the Vette hands down. Time to go back to the hotrodder hangout.
Once again my arrival didn't go unnoticed, and a crowd had gathered in interest. After some small talk I sent out more scouts to find a challenger, but couldn't find one. Then, one came back and told me a guy with an 03 Z06 was up for it. I went over to talk to him, and he said he would do it if he could run with his traction control system on, and he wanted to put $25 on it. I declined on the cash but agreed to let him use his TCS.
We proceeded to the strip, with a couple other cars in tow. He took a warm-up run with a new Mustang Cobra and beat him by a comfortable margin. I got lined up and waited. The Z06 came back and lined up next to me, and the hands fell.
The Fiero launched hard and took off, getting an early lead with minimal drama - little more than a tire chirp off the line. The Z06 did a lot of spinning and smoking, just as he had against the Cobra, and I was already two car lengths ahead by the time he got enough traction to try to catch up. It was too late by then. The ZZ430 comes on cam at about 3500rpm and it's like having secondaries, the thrust builds all the way to its current 6300rpm redline. Shift to second and the tires chirp in momentary protest, the engine stays in its powerband back to redline. Shift to third and the fun continues across the finish line. I beat him by at least two carlengths - I watched him the whole time in my rearview mirror. Game over.
I went back to the hangout but the Z06 wasn't there. I guess I'd sent him packing. I felt kinda bad for a while for laying a fellow Corvette owner to waste with a Fiero, but it was otherwise too satisfying for that feeling to last long.
I also had an impromptu race with a late model Grand Prix GTP while I was leading a bunch of cars over to the strip. The driver was a young kid who surprised me when I wasn't even expecting a race until I heard his blower wind up as the light turned green. So I punched it and walked away from him as well. At the next light we rolled the windows down and he yelled over, "That was sick! My boost is cranked up and I couldn't even keep up with you! What the hell do you have in there?!"
I just smiled and drove off.
Dave
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02:32 PM
OutlawFiero Member
Posts: 262 From: San Diego,CA,USA Registered: Sep 2002
Good to hear you have some of the bugs worked out!!! For some reason those Z06 guys really like to hide when they get spanked by a Fiero! What's even funnier is the Mustang Cobra boys, they just get a stunned look on their face, and don't know what to do!
[This message has been edited by Mosinee88GT (edited 09-26-2002).]
I just spent the better part of an hour downloading the latest quicktime and I can't play the .avi version of these files. So, I tried the .wmv version, and Microsoft says that installing IE is mandatory to download the proper decompressor for that format. The links to the .mpg files are dead. So, why can't somebody post these in a normal, works all the time format? The quicktime format from two years ago works just fine, the .mpg from two years ago works just fime. This latest and greatest stuff is getting to be a real pain.
Glad to see your back out on the street Dave, Sounds like the car is running good. I'm still working on mine to try to tune it and get the most out of it. Trying to come up with a better performance chip. Let me know if you come up with any ideas about our tuning. I am probably having the same problems you had. I feel the car could do more. Any tips would be appreciated Nice run on the Z06. Bob
Bob, what have you done so far? Have you tried doing a wideband O2 dyno run? I think your ECM's programming would be well outside of its window for the upgrades you've done and would need major recalibration. S/D systems can only handle about a 3% change.
There's a place in SC that does reprogramming mail order for about $100, you might want to check them out.
Alvin P. Anderson Chips@pcmforless.com www.PCMFORLESS.com (910) 964-8398
(thanks to Winston Ojeda for this tip!)
Dave
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12:01 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
The Fiero launched hard and took off, getting an early lead with minimal drama - little more than a tire chirp off the line. The Z06 did a lot of spinning and smoking, just as he had against the Cobra, and I was already two car lengths ahead by the time he got enough traction to try to catch up. It was too late by then. The ZZ430 comes on cam at about 3500rpm and it's like having secondaries, the thrust builds all the way to its current 6300rpm redline. Shift to second and the tires chirp in momentary protest, the engine stays in its powerband back to redline. Shift to third and the fun continues across the finish line. I beat him by at least two carlengths - I watched him the whole time in my rearview mirror. Game over.
Dave
X Sounds like a good X Kill Dave.
One X can only imagine X how badly a really X fast Fiero could X have beat him. X
I'll bet that X ZO6 owner is wishing X that he'd bought a X Fiero.
X Nice kill Dave X
ArchieX
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12:12 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
I'd like to preface this by saying that a lot of folks refer to their cars as beasts after doing modifications to them. I haven't heard of anyone call a modified 4cyl a beast yet, but some near-stock V6 cars have been referred to this way, and this dilutes the meaning when referring to a car which has truly been reborn with something an unholy degree meaner under the hood.
I'd also like to mention that anybody who has ever attempted to push the limits understands that it is never as easy as it seems, and there are implementation challenges no matter how well you think you've planned it out ahead of time or how easy it should be in theory.
My goal has been an honest, naturally-aspirated 400hp (or more) Fiero that has 100% daily street drivability, 100,000-mile durability, and nothing to give away what is under the hood - especially to have a quiet exhaust. The accomplishment of all that is no small feat.
Today I found and solved all the remaining issues with my engine and injection system, both drivability and performance, and even got a little scanner time on it. I'd like to thank Chuck (MotorTV), Archie, Eric (AOB), and Winston (FieroLT1) for their help and suggestions in dealing with these issues.
Right now, it's even better than it was last weekend. I got rid of a miss and reduced power that turned out to be rotor contact corrosion on the distributor cap. I smoothed out the fuel delivery (according to the fuel pressure gage, at least) with a new fuel filter, from the previous one clogging by the pump sucking the crap out of the bottom of the tank from running out of gas a couple times. My Speedhut Indiglo gages are to blame for that, by the way. I topped it off with an injector cleaning and a plug-wire rerouting to cure a heat issue. The computer is now clear of codes and staying clear, and the scanner shows zero spark retard, no false knock readings, and a block learn only slightly on the rich side at around 116. The computer no longer seems to be compensating for things being out of whack like it has been.
I have been in ZR-1 Corvettes, Lingenfelter C5's, Viper GTS's, highly modified F-bodies, and numerous other cars over the years. Nothing I've ever been in has launched this hard, pulled this hard, wound so high, and been so cheek-flatteningly fast as this without nitrous or some other power-booster.
Archie drove it, and his comments surprised even me. I'll let him share his thoughts on it if he chooses.
It's definitely ready for a dragstrip run now, when mother nature cooperates. More videos are also forthcoming. Stay tuned.
Dave
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12:08 AM
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
I can't wait to hear/see what kind of strip times you get with the fully functional package! I bet that car is an absolute blast to go cruising in, worth every penny.....aah, someday. Someday in the not too distant future, if all goes well.
Bryce 88 GT
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12:22 AM
Tina Member
Posts: 2858 From: At an elevation of 8564 feet. Registered: Nov 2000
Archie drove it, and his comments surprised even me. I'll let him share his thoughts on it if he chooses.
Dave
When I drove it yesterXday I had several good 1st to 2nd & 2nd to 3rd powershifts wXith the throttle on the fXloor. All I said was that rideX reminded me of why I got into this V-8 swap stuff in the 1st placeX
You guys (archie and crazyd) are my heros. You have restored my faith in the Pontic Fiero as a platform for making power. I nearly needed a new pair of pants when I watched the videos, crazyd. Call me nuts, but it looks like we have a new snake killer on our hands, and I don't mean just cobras . . .
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01:09 PM
Tina Member
Posts: 2858 From: At an elevation of 8564 feet. Registered: Nov 2000
Anybody who thinks that a small-block can't rev like a 32-valve V8 needs to feel this thing pull to 6500rpm. It's insane, and awesome fun. If it doesn't get your blood pumping like a 12,000 foot skydive, or sex in Central Park, then you're already dead.
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06:52 PM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
Anybody who thinks that a small-block can't rev like a 32-valve V8 needs to feel this thing pull to 6500rpm. It's insane, and awesome fun. If it doesn't get your blood pumping like a 12,000 foot skydive, or sex in Central Park, then you're already dead.
Bob, what have you done so far? Have you tried doing a wideband O2 dyno run? I think your ECM's programming would be well outside of its window for the upgrades you've done and would need major recalibration. S/D systems can only handle about a 3% change.
There's a place in SC that does reprogramming mail order for about $100, you might want to check them out.
Alvin P. Anderson Chips@pcmforless.com www.PCMFORLESS.com (910) 964-8398
(thanks to Winston Ojeda for this tip!)
Dave
Dave, I have work out some of the proplems, and have talked to Alvin from Pcforless.com We have come up with a fix for the rest of the problems. Like you said, I think the modifications are too much for the S/D. This will work out after the chip change, Just waiting for it to get here. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the update. Bob
Crazy D, you should get out to great lakes soon! I want 1/4 mile times!! You might want to bring a video camera along for the rest of us that cant see you whoop some as in person!
------------------ That's the extent of my intellect www.geocities.com/j_depies step into the fiero kingdom
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01:41 AM
Seanpaul Member
Posts: 1320 From: Santa Rosa, North CA. Registered: Mar 2003
Wow Fiero heaven..!? Is there truly such a place, where old unfortunate forgotten Fieros can join as one!.. Waiting for a saint to come along and rescue her. Where is this fiero heaven..???
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06:00 AM
FieroLT1 Member
Posts: 320 From: MilwauKee, Wisconsin, USA Registered: Nov 2000
I believe what you are seeing is the place where old and tired Fieros come to die a peaceful death. Only to come back reincanated in a beautiful body with a very, very powerful soul.
At Archie's Shop, I thought I saw once at the main shop entrance a sign that had:
Ease your grief, she will not be gone For a a new heart, will be put on. Your smile, your laugh, in a special way, Will comfort you, driving me, day to day.
You'll feel my presence with every shift, That dances gently through downtown streets. And it's your face that you shall see Is your reflection on my wind shield.
If at any time the pain you can't bear Please find some comfort There will be, horsepower to spare.
by Winston Ojeda FieroLT1
------------------ Winston Ojeda 88 Fiero Formula LT1 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA http://www.FieroLT1.com Home of the Fiero LT1
[This message has been edited by FieroLT1 (edited 04-23-2003).]
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08:43 AM
Jul 27th, 2003
ImmortalFirefly Member
Posts: 302 From: Northern Utah County, Utah Registered: Apr 2003
Latest update on the car is that the headers have been replaced with ram-horn cast iron exhaust manifolds to solve some heat management issues and quiet the car down to where I want it. Archie made a heat shield for the bottom of the trunk, above where the second catalytic converter and two mufflers sat, and it has cooled the internal trunk temperature to a very acceptable 110 degrees in spite of only 3" of clearance to the exhaust units.
The twin-48mm throttle body that's choking off this motor will shortly be replaced with a billet aluminum twin-58mm BBK.
At that point I'll decide if ECM tuning is still necessary.
11k miles and the SPEC clutch still feels like-new.
A word of advice to anyone who has gone to upgraded wheels with rim-protecting tires - getting an alignment is a MAJOR pain!
Dave
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09:39 AM
STRATOHACKER Member
Posts: 820 From: Columbus, OH U.S.A Registered: Jun 2003
Dave, I met you at the 20th and I really dug your car. Good to see an update on it. Regarding the rim protector tires I have been unfortunate enough to have to do alignments on car with them and yes it is a real PITA Richey
Selling tickets?
