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ECM upgrade (1227730) for stock 2.8 by Darth Fiero
Started on: 01-09-2007 02:26 PM
Replies: 1066 (85707 views)
Last post by: turbo86se on 12-18-2017 10:19 AM
Darth Fiero
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Report this Post07-26-2013 01:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sleevePAPA:


AXXD?



No, AXYC. But same difference.

 
quote


the 7730 $8D mask will control the A/C relay, heres a link for you to reference. I managed to figure it out with the help of RBob on the TGO

http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...-clutch-control.html


I know it should. It does in the Corvette applications (although different ECM architecture). I'll get back to this later (see my next post).

 
quote


For cylinder select, there is also a bit that needs to be turned off iirc. I will check and get back to you a little later.


I think I figured it out. Looking at an $8D disassembly/hack I have, there is a check done by the ECM for the Code 41 diagnostic which also needs to be changed.

The main "Number of Cylinders" constant is at address $0009, and here are the possible settings:
4 = $80 (decimal = 128)
6 = $C0 (decimal = 192)
8 = $00 (decimal = 0)

The code 41 Cylinder Select Diagnostic is located at address $0293, and here are the possible settings:

8 CYL = $00 (decimal = 0)
6 CYL = $08 (decimal = 8)
4 CYL = $10 (decimal = 16)
TBI = $18 (decimal = 24)

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-26-2013).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post07-26-2013 01:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I downloaded a pinout comparison chart from the Ludis webpage some time ago that showed the hardware comparison between the 1227730/1227749 and 1227727 ECMs. For those of you who aren't familiar with these ECMs, the 1227727 ECM is a sealed unit that is designed to be mounted in the engine compartment and it has 4 square connectors. The 1227730/1227749 is an in-car mounted ECM (much like the stock Fiero V6 unit) only it has 3 connectors. All of these ECMs will run the same code mask programming. Anyway, using the chart and looking at the 90-91 Corvette TPI pinout charts, here is what I have found crosses over to the 1227730/1227749 ECMs:

(1227730 ECM pins)

*BC9 - A/C Clutch Status Input

BD3 - A/C Request Input
*BD12 - Fan2 Request (A/C Pressure Switch) Input
*BD14 - 4th Gear Switch Input
*BD16 - Park/Neutral Switch Input

*GE8 - Fan1 Relay Control Output

*GF1 - Upshift Lamp Control Output (MT & AT)
GF3 - A/C Clutch Relay Control Output
GF5 - 1-4 SkipShift Lamp Control Output
*GF6 - AT TCC Solenoid or MT 1-4 SkipShift Solenoid Control Output
GF8 - Fan2 Relay Control Output
GF12 - Engine Oil Temp Sensor Signal Input (0-5v analog)


* = Only ones used by F-Body V8 TPI (90-92)
All listed above are used by the Y-Body TPI (90-91)

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-26-2013).]

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sleevePAPA
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Report this Post07-26-2013 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just checked, 08 set at 0x293work for cyl error qual.

For some reason i cant remember, i had to splice D3 and C9 together to enable a/c relay

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post07-26-2013 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sleevePAPA:

Just checked, 08 set at 0x293work for cyl error qual.

For some reason i cant remember, i had to splice D3 and C9 together to enable a/c relay


BD3 is A/C request input. When the ECM sees 12v + power on this input, it *should* command the A/C relay on.

BUT, it will not acknowledge the A/C clutch is engaged until it sees 12v + power on BC9 since this is the A/C clutch status input.

I have not tested this yet so I don't know if this is indeed the case or if you are correct and, for some reason, both BD3 and BC9 need to get 12v + power before this ECM will enable the A/C relay output. Maybe I will play with this next week.

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quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

A/C PRESSURE SENSORS:
The $A1 code mask requires a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor be installed on the hi-side of the A/C system

GM used these 3-wire A/C pressure sensors on R12 and R134a systems. 1991-92 W-body GM cars with the 3.1L V6 had R12 and a sensor for or from one of these cars will have the R12 threads.

All 1994-newer GM cars and trucks used R-134a so a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor from any of these vehicles will have R-134a specific threads. You can have an R-134a pressure sensor fitting welded into a set of existing A/C lines if your welder knows what he or she is doing.


Okay, I am currently running DarthFiero's 0x88 mask with my distributor 2.8, and I'd like to upgrade to DIS soon, it looks like I have to deal with this A/C issue.

I have a few questions:

- isn't there a 3-wire sensor that fits in place of the hi-pressure switch on the compressor? Do both hi pressure switch and sensor need to be retained? If the hi pressure switch can be deleted, it would be possible to make an adapter on a lathe that fits into the compressor port that has a R134a thread...
- Where does one get a R134a pressure sensor fitting? Is that a common part? Could that be welded to the A/C line next to the service port?
- The 0x88 mask should ignore the signal, so it should be possible to install the sensor with my current (non-DIS 0x88) setup?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-02-2013 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroluke:


Okay, I am currently running DarthFiero's 0x88 mask with my distributor 2.8, and I'd like to upgrade to DIS soon, it looks like I have to deal with this A/C issue.

I have a few questions:

- isn't there a 3-wire sensor that fits in place of the hi-pressure switch on the compressor? Do both hi pressure switch and sensor need to be retained? If the hi pressure switch can be deleted, it would be possible to make an adapter on a lathe that fits into the compressor port that has a R134a thread...
- Where does one get a R134a pressure sensor fitting? Is that a common part? Could that be welded to the A/C line next to the service port?
- The 0x88 mask should ignore the signal, so it should be possible to install the sensor with my current (non-DIS 0x88) setup?


I have never seen a 3-wire A/C pressure SENSOR that will install directly into the back of an A/C compressor. But if anyone knows of one, I would be very interested in getting the part number.

Once you have a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor installed & wired up to the 7730 ECM and have the 7730 ECM controlling the A/C clutch relay, you do not need the stock Fiero A/C hi-pressure cut-out switch that mounts on the back of the stock Fiero A/C compressor. The 7730 ECM / 3-wire A/C pressure sensor will monitor A/C hi-side pressure and will disable A/C clutch operation if pressure gets too high.

GM did make a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor with the same threads (R12) as the hi-side test port that's on the stock Fiero A/C line up in the front trunk compartment. These were used on 1993-older GM W-Body cars. These sensors will screw right onto the stock Fiero hi-side pressure test port. The catch is the Fiero fitting was not machined to accept an o-ring to seal this type of sensor. I have been able to get these sensors to install and seal on these fittings but I usually have to stack 2 o-rings onto the fitting, discharge the system, pull the system into a vacuum, then install the sensor. Trying to do this on a charged system without it blowing out the o-rings before you get the sensor fully seated is next to impossible.

You can get R134a pressure sensor fittings (and matching pressure sensors) at the junkyard. Look for 96-newer W-body cars; should be pretty common. A good pair of side cuts will easily cut thru the aluminum line on both sides of the fitting so you can get the fitting off.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-02-2013).]

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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post08-03-2013 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Darth Fiero, if you want any help with the $8D code mask, let me know. I have been working with that code since 98 on everything from a 79 Dodge Omni, 77 Toyota Landcruiser, 72 Chevelle, and of course my 86 GT before the v6 converted to a v5. I even had this code working with a DIS system. I found the $8D code to be very versatile once you get your mind wrapped around it.

Chet W.

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Report this Post08-03-2013 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:

Darth Fiero, if you want any help with the $8D code mask, let me know. I have been working with that code since 98 on everything from a 79 Dodge Omni, 77 Toyota Landcruiser, 72 Chevelle, and of course my 86 GT before the v6 converted to a v5. I even had this code working with a DIS system. I found the $8D code to be very versatile once you get your mind wrapped around it.

Chet W.


Good to know! Only real complaint I have with it is the fuel control modifier when EGR is active and the MAT counts table. Masks like $A1 and $88 seem to have higher resolution (EGR DC vs. VE) while $8D uses a partial pressure modifier. My studies into code hacking has stalled due to other priorities but I wanted to modify and resolve a few issues(IMO) like the MAT counts vs MAT table to work better with an IAT. Also wanted to add(for sh!ts n giggles) a spark cut routine(2step).

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Darth Fiero
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quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:

Darth Fiero, if you want any help with the $8D code mask, let me know. I have been working with that code since 98 on everything from a 79 Dodge Omni, 77 Toyota Landcruiser, 72 Chevelle, and of course my 86 GT before the v6 converted to a v5. I even had this code working with a DIS system. I found the $8D code to be very versatile once you get your mind wrapped around it.

Chet W.


I appreciate the offer for help. But I too have been working with this code mask for as long as you have although 99% of my use with it was working with healthy V8 builds. I have little previous experience using it with a V6 and none with DIS, so maybe that is where you can help. I was looking over the $8D disassembly I have and could not find any coil dwell tables defined in it. What (if anything) has to be changed in order to make the $8D mask work with DIS?

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Darth Fiero
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I connected the A/C "request" wire coming from the Fiero HVAC control panel to ECM pin BD3 - A/C request input. Then I connected ECM pin GF3 - A/C Clutch Relay Control Output to the Fiero A/C relay.

Result : No A/C clutch operation with HVAC selected to turn A/C on. No idle increase, no radiator fan tuning on.

I then tied ECM pin BC9 - A/C Clutch Status Input in with the BD3 - A/C request input wire and still no A/C clutch engagement (because the ECM didn't activate the A/C clutch relay); but I did get a raised idle and the radiator fan kicked on.

All this while still using the 305 TPI F-body base tune. I would assume it will work with the Corvette $8D base tune but I'm not going to mess with it on this car because I would need to spend a ton of time copying all my fuel and spark tables (as well as other settings) over to a Corvette tune and I really don't have time to mess with it right now. The A/C works without ECM control and there's really little point to changing that in this kind of application (stock 2.8).

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-07-2013 02:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lots of new info so be prepared for a long read... (still working with the $8D mask)

RPM
Before today I was running TTS Datamaster $8D to watch and record live data with. I noticed in Datamaster that there were two RPM readouts: "RPM" and "RPM/16". The RPM reading was correct. The RPM/16 reading seemed to be 3/4 that of actual. I wasn't concerned with this at the time because the engine was idling where it was supposed to and changes I made to the fuel and spark tables were taking effect at the exact RPMs I wanted them to. However, today I had my GM Tech 2 scan tool hooked up and it was only displaying the 3/4 of actual RPM reading (which was displayed as RPM/16 on Datamaster). I did some experimenting with the rev limiter in the chip tune and set it to 3000 to test a theory. I revved the engine up to 3000, 3100, 3200....3500 - no rev limiter. The rev limiter finally cut in at 4000 rpm.

I did some digging in the "code" and found there is a FILTERED RPM and what I'll call a RAW RPM (seems to be a number displayed as "8 x 16" in the disassembly). The FILTERED RPM is the RPM all the major fuel, spark, idle, etc tables in the ECM use. The RAW RPM is what the Rev Limiter and probably some other minor functions like shift light and such use.

It looks like RAW RPM might have something to do with the engine running logic quoted below:

 
quote

***************************************************
* EST Minor loop
*
* Eng running logic
*
*
*
***************************************************
LB7B7: LDAA #0 ; CLR COP
STAA L400C ; CPU COP
;
; 8 cyl equiv RPM val
;
LDX #L00B3 ; CURRENT MNR LOOP DRP PERIOD
LDAA $8009 ; 0 = 8 CYL
BNE LB7C8 ; BR if Cyl NE 8
; .... else
LDD L00B3 ; CURRENT MNR LOOP DRP PERIOD
BRA LB7CB ; Save cnts
LB7C8: JSR LE33F ; No, scale to 8 cyl ref
; (8 x 16 MULT)
LB7CB: STD L0467 ; ECM IM RAM, NUM OF 65.5Khz cnts
; between DRPs
;-------------------------------------
; RPM, RPM P, RPM/25 & RPM/12.5
;
; Q = (153.6/RPM RER) * 2 ^8
;
; PER = 1/65.5 Khz per bit
;--------------------------------------
PSHB ;
PSHA ;
;
ASLD ; SET DIVIDE OPER
PSHB ;
PSHA ;
;
PULX ;
LDD #0307 ; 15 * (512/25) or 153.6 * 2
FDIV ; do division
PSHX ;
TSX ;
LDD 0,X ;
CMPA #96 ; 2400 RPM
BCS LB7E9 ; Br IF RPM <= 2400 RPM, (LO RANGE)
; .... else
ADDD #16512 ; ROUND Q & ADJ to HI RANGE (2400-4800)
BCC LB7F0 ; IF IN HI RANGE RPM/25
; ... else
LDAA #255 ; If > 4800 RPM limit to 4800, (255d)
BRA LB7F0 ;
;
;-----------------------------------------
; Mult by 2 in lo range, 1 bit = 12.5 RPM
; Round (2Q) and adj for lower range
;-----------------------------------------
SUBD #8064 ;
;
LB7E9: ASLD ; x2, RPM.12.5
BCC LB7F0 ;
; ... else
CLRA ; CLEAR RPM
;--------------------------------
; (-400 RPM ($20) + 128 to round)
; 0 CTS = 400 RPM
;--------------------------------
LB7F0: STAA L0057 ; RPM/25
PULA ; Pull RPM/25
PULB
PSHB
PSHA
ADDD #128 ; Round off
BCC LB7FD ; BR if no overflow
; ...


 
quote

*******************************************************
* 8X16MULT.SRC
*
* 8 x 16 Multiply with 16 bit result result rounded
* to the upper 16 bits.
*
* CALL WITH:
* A Reg = 8 BIT Multiplier
* X Reg = Adderss og 16 bit Multiplicand
*
* RETURN WITH:
* A Reg = MSB of 16 bit result
* B Reg = LSM of 16 bit result
*
* Exec time: 66 Cycles
* Code length: 20 Bytes
* Stack req: 3 Bytes
*
* ORG $E33F
********************************************************
LE33F: PSHA ; SAVE MULTIPLIER
LDAB 1,X ; GET LSB OF MULTIPLICAND
MUL ; MSB PARTIAL PRODUCT
ADCA #0 ; ROUND
PULB
PSHA ; SAVE PARTIAL PRODUCT
LDAA 0,X ; GET MSB OF MULTIPLICAND
MUL ; MSB PARTIAL PRODUCT
PSHX ; SAVE
TSX
ADDB 2,X ; ADD IN LSB PARTIAL PROD
ADCA #0 ; ROUND
PULX
INS
RTS ; RETURN TO CALLER
*******************************************************


If anyone knows how to fix this, I'm all ears. But from what I'm finding as I search the net for an answer, it does not appear as though anyone else is aware of the problem because they are only changing what I'm changing in the $8D to make it work with a 6 cyl and there is no mention of this other "RAW RPM" calculation or setting anywhere.


PE SPARK
Watching the spark advance PID on the scanner, when I go to WOT (activate PE mode), the spark advance dropped to about 20 and didn't go much above that. Knock retard is disabled (no knock sensor) so that's not the problem. Main Spark Advance table mirrors stock Fiero ECM tune settings which is 28.8 Deg Adv @ 4800 rpm and the PE Spark Advance Table also mirrors stock Fiero which is about +2 deg (added in PE mode) across the board. I'm not sure what is going on here but I went ahead and plugged 8 deg in the PE Spark Advance table @ 3200 RPM and 10 deg in @ 4800 RPM which resulted in a total spark advance of 27 - 31 deg at WOT / PE Mode at those respective RPMs - which is what I wanted.

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TheKingOfBattle
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Report this Post08-07-2013 05:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheKingOfBattleSend a Private Message to TheKingOfBattleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Darth-
Your post above confuses the snot out of me with all the technical details, but I guess that just means I have some reading to do.

Unrelated to the above posts, yet very relevant to the 7730:
I've run across these two threads on adding DIS on the stocker V6
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122002.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-103834.html

I'm planning on building Gravitic Anomaly's setup, as I don't really want to tear open the motor. Would this require swapping code masks on the 7730 if I start my 7730 swap off running a distributor and then go distributorless?
I can turn a wrench, so please forgive my ignorance when it comes to the ECM side of the house, as I am new to the whole ECM tuning thing. I have been reading your threads, but I need to get smarter on some of the more basic concepts of computer tuning.

[This message has been edited by TheKingOfBattle (edited 08-07-2013).]

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Darth Fiero
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quote
Originally posted by TheKingOfBattle:

Darth-
Your post above confuses the snot out of me with all the technical details, but I guess that just means I have some reading to do.

Unrelated to the above posts, yet very relevant to the 7730:
I've run across these two threads on adding DIS on the stocker V6
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122002.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-103834.html

I'm planning on building Gravitic Anomaly's setup, as I don't really want to tear open the motor. Would this require swapping code masks on the 7730 if I start my 7730 swap off running a distributor and then go distributorless?
I can turn a wrench, so please forgive my ignorance when it comes to the ECM side of the house, as I am new to the whole ECM tuning thing. I have been reading your threads, but I need to get smarter on some of the more basic concepts of computer tuning.



Chet says he has run $8D with the DIS. I would like to hear some more details about how that worked out for him and if he has had (or still is having) any issues with doing that. While digging around for my most recent RPM problem in the disassembly, I found some stuff on ignition coil dwell. I do know that dwell time is going to be different between a 1-coil distributor system and a 3-coil DIS system. So I wonder if Chet was able to find the dwell tables in the $8D mask where changes need to be made to make it work right with DIS or if it really even matters (which it may not).

This is just one issue in a whole host of issues you run into when you try using something designed for one engine on another engine.

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Report this Post08-07-2013 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TheKingOfBattleSend a Private Message to TheKingOfBattleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Darth, thanks for the insight. I'm going to try it out. If I end up destroying the motor in the process, it's a perfect excuse to swap in a 3800sc.

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Report this Post08-07-2013 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Its been done with $8D using N* coil, maybe even EDIS iirc...

http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...1-do-away-dizzy.html

http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...aujp-v4-setting.html


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Darth Fiero
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quote
Originally posted by sleevePAPA:

Its been done with $8D using N* coil, maybe even EDIS iirc...



Using the $8D with a V6 distributor application has also been done before but there is a problem with it as I have discovered. And NOBODY else has said anything about it (at least none that I was able to find in my research). I mirrored exactly what "everybody else" has done in the conversion I just did and I found a specific problem outlined above. I just wonder how many people are driving around with problems they don't know they have. Not that it is a big deal; because, as I said, the "RAW RPM" reading isn't used by anything major in the ECM. But being the perfectionist I am, I want it all working 100% if possible.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-07-2013 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ok, I talked to John at TunerCat and he told me what I assumed was "RAW RPM" really isn't. He said the scanner's definition file (both TTS Datamaster's RPM/16 and the Tech 2 RPM reading) assume the $8D system is always an 8 cyl application and what is being displayed is based on that calculation; and that's why I was seeing 3/4 of actual RPM readings on these scanners.

He also said the rev limiter setting in the $8D tune is based on distributor reference pulse period. The conversion equation for this is RPM = (65536 x 120) / (N * # Cylinders).

So, in a nutshell, we don't need to worry about the 3/4 of actual RPM "problem" and we'll just need to calculate the rev limiter setting any time we use the $8D code mask for a V6.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-09-2013 01:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have a report from the customer. He said before he brought me this car that I just did the 7730 ECM swap using $8D in, the best highway fuel economy he could get out of it was 30-31 mpg. He said it now gets 35 mpg. This is pretty much a bone stock 88 GT w/ a 2.8L V6 & 5-speed getrag.

Highway mode fuel (lean cruise) is enabled in this tune. I've got it set up so it can only stay in highway mode fuel for 7 seconds at any one time. Then it must kick out (to give the ECM time to check the fuel trims) for 10 seconds before hwy fuel mode will re-enable. So that's 7 sec on, 10 sec off, 7 sec on, 10 sec off; etc etc etc. When I drove the car, you couldn't tell when the highway mode fuel was engaged or not unless you were looking at the scan data. The feel (power) of the engine did not change.

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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post08-10-2013 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


Chet says he has run $8D with the DIS. I would like to hear some more details about how that worked out for him and if he has had (or still is having) any issues with doing that. While digging around for my most recent RPM problem in the disassembly, I found some stuff on ignition coil dwell. I do know that dwell time is going to be different between a 1-coil distributor system and a 3-coil DIS system. So I wonder if Chet was able to find the dwell tables in the $8D mask where changes need to be made to make it work right with DIS or if it really even matters (which it may not).

This is just one issue in a whole host of issues you run into when you try using something designed for one engine on another engine.


Keep in mind that this was a "Few" years ago (2003) and I no longer have the car. I experimented on a 1991 corsica engine that was in a "project car" and had a manual trans and no A/C. With that said, the engine originally came with the 1227730 and $A1 code. I was in the middle of my tuning days and wanted to try something different. I used the $8D code because I was familiar with it. After a bit of experimenting and reviewing other factory bin's, I finally found the settings that allowed me to use the $8D code with DIS. Needless to say, the spark settings to allow this was the easy part. Fuel, spark, and other tables/settings had to be transferred or modified to get this mutt to run well. I only ran this for about a year before the car was retired do to a significant fender bender. During that time, I had no problems running the DIS with the code that was not intended for such use. The dwell code between both the $A1 and the $8D code function about the same, no settings need to be modified or to be found in the $8D. As far as the ecu in concerned, it is still controlling a single coil where the DIS module takes car of all the switching.

Here is what I changed to get this to work:

Spark Advance Initial from 5.98 to 59.77 for DIS
Spark Advance Max from 41.84 to -9.84 for DIS
Spark Retard Max from -3.87 to -69.96 for DIS

These may not make sense to most, but they do work.

If anyone is interested, PM/email me for a copy of the files.

Chet W.

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Darth Fiero
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quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:

Spark Advance Initial from 5.98 to 59.77 for DIS
Spark Advance Max from 41.84 to -9.84 for DIS
Spark Retard Max from -3.87 to -69.96 for DIS

Chet W.


Question: When making the above changes, is reported spark advance in the scan data correct (actual) or not?

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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post08-14-2013 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I do not remember it displaying anything out of the ordinary. Granted that was a few years ago.

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TheKingOfBattle
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Report this Post08-15-2013 01:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheKingOfBattleSend a Private Message to TheKingOfBattleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:


Keep in mind that this was a "Few" years ago (2003) and I no longer have the car. I experimented on a 1991 corsica engine that was in a "project car" and had a manual trans and no A/C. With that said, the engine originally came with the 1227730 and $A1 code. I was in the middle of my tuning days and wanted to try something different. I used the $8D code because I was familiar with it. After a bit of experimenting and reviewing other factory bin's, I finally found the settings that allowed me to use the $8D code with DIS. Needless to say, the spark settings to allow this was the easy part. Fuel, spark, and other tables/settings had to be transferred or modified to get this mutt to run well. I only ran this for about a year before the car was retired do to a significant fender bender. During that time, I had no problems running the DIS with the code that was not intended for such use. The dwell code between both the $A1 and the $8D code function about the same, no settings need to be modified or to be found in the $8D. As far as the ecu in concerned, it is still controlling a single coil where the DIS module takes car of all the switching.

Here is what I changed to get this to work:

Spark Advance Initial from 5.98 to 59.77 for DIS
Spark Advance Max from 41.84 to -9.84 for DIS
Spark Retard Max from -3.87 to -69.96 for DIS

These may not make sense to most, but they do work.

If anyone is interested, PM/email me for a copy of the files.

Chet W.


Thanks for the info, Chet.
BTW, I dig the Dr. Strangelove avatar.

[This message has been edited by TheKingOfBattle (edited 08-15-2013).]

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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post08-15-2013 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You are welcome.

I also had one of General Buck Turgidson as well. A fun movie if you catch all the subtleties and innuendos.

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Report this Post08-19-2013 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Mr Darth, are you on the lookout for other ecu/pcm computers that would make a worth while replacement for a swap? On that comes to mind is the 16197427 PCM. It originally comes from a TBI/CPI injection system used in GM pickup trucks in the early to mid 90's. With a bit of ingenuity, this pcm could be adapted to many different applications and transmissions, possibly the 4T65E. I will do a bit more research and report back later.

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Report this Post08-19-2013 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:

Mr Darth, are you on the lookout for other ecu/pcm computers that would make a worth while replacement for a swap? On that comes to mind is the 16197427 PCM. It originally comes from a TBI/CPI injection system used in GM pickup trucks in the early to mid 90's. With a bit of ingenuity, this pcm could be adapted to many different applications and transmissions, possibly the 4T65E. I will do a bit more research and report back later.



You and Darth should join the Gearhead EFI forums(if you already havent?), $0D/7427 is a popular swap over there.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com...7-PCM-Information-OD

http://www.gearhead-efi.com...ions!&highlight=7427

http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...-converting-tbi.html

http://coloradok5.com/forum...wthread.php?t=270253

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-30-2013 01:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:

Mr Darth, are you on the lookout for other ecu/pcm computers that would make a worth while replacement for a swap? On that comes to mind is the 16197427 PCM. It originally comes from a TBI/CPI injection system used in GM pickup trucks in the early to mid 90's. With a bit of ingenuity, this pcm could be adapted to many different applications and transmissions, possibly the 4T65E. I will do a bit more research and report back later.


I have two points I will make while responding to your query...

1) I have shifted my primary focus to OBD2 systems at this point. That doesn't mean I'm done working on OBD1 stuff. I will continue to and always plan to support the systems I've always supported but I'm just not going to invest much more time in trying to use different OBD1 systems on applications that they were never used with from the factory. I just don't have time to do much with the older stuff when I'm trying to keep up with the brand new systems being rolled off the assembly line at GM these days AND trying to stay on top of the "earlier" OBD2 systems and using those on applications they were never meant to.

2) I am very familiar with the PCMs that run the $E6, $0E, and $0D code masks (CPI/TBI trucks with 4L60-E or 4L80-E transmissions). I have tuned many stock, lightly modded, and even some very heavily modded truck engines that used these computers. I can tell you that these computers (more precisely, the OS's run in them) have some nasty limitations built in which can be a real pain in the butt to work with when you are trying to tune highly modified engines (with big cams, big injectors, etc). They have proven to be MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to work with for such applications compared to how much less work it takes to tune the 1227747 $42 ECMs and 1227730 $8D ECMs for a similar engine build.

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quote
Originally posted by sleevePAPA:
You and Darth should join the Gearhead EFI forums(if you already havent?), $0D/7427 is a popular swap over there.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com...7-PCM-Information-OD

http://www.gearhead-efi.com...ions!&highlight=7427

http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...-converting-tbi.html

http://coloradok5.com/forum...wthread.php?t=270253


I wish I had more time. But I'm struggling to post a handful of times per week only on this forum as it is.

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Report this Post10-10-2013 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hi everyone... Great write ups and info from you all.. I'm on page 8 so far but too eager to read all before picking all the components.. Sorry if this has been asked.. And a bump to the top for the great thread!

What I'm running...

3.4L p/r out of a 95 camaro - 88 Fiero everything else
Forged pistons and rods - .030 over , 9:25.1 comp
260/260 comp cam
1.6 Roller rockers (Crane gold series)
All balanced and ported
Bored throttlebody 56mm instead of the 52mm
Cold air intake
Holley fuel regulator
17lb injectors
282 Muncie 5 speed

I've been to the junk yard .... What I have now

I found a 16198262 ECM out of a 92 3.1L firebird ( it was an automatic and mines a stick... But I thought I read somewhere that it didn't matter? ), the digital EGR -plus the base plate assembly.. and the knock sensor... The mem cal chip is there also.. I cut off all the pigtails to help make new harnesses. I have a spare 85 Fiero ECM and would like to do the plug a play like I read about. Eventually I would like a turbo, hint the 85 ECM for the knock sensor... But as I've been reading, even though it sounds like the 7749 is best.. we can still get away with the 7730 and/or the one I found..?

I also want to go coil pack , DIS style with no distributor... So, I also have

Out of a 2001 grand am 3400, the 3 coil packs and the mount; try to use it some how, fab something.. Anyway, I have the crank sensor from the side of the block (I'm not sure which one 7x or the 24x- or know which does what)... But I didn't get the crank sensor behind the crank pulley.. I have a puller but not on me at the time when in the yard.., but Is that one even necessary - behind the pulley?... And will it work on the Fiero timing cover "88"? I also have the distributor plug with the oil pump gear attached. Also.. Do I need a cam sensor too? Are there spots in the 3.4L p/r block to put all of this.. Any pictures out there showing there swap and the sensors?

So basically I'm asking.. What else do I need? Do i have it right or the right track?.... Anything is much appreciated.. Thanks.. I know to have the chip burned but I'm not there yet.. Ill go with sinister on that one.. Thanks all!

------------------

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 10-14-2013).]

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Report this Post10-13-2013 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Capt Fiero:

There is at least one running.

Here is an engine bay shot of his car at the last meeting. He kinda cheated though, (: He did a Camaro 3.4 V6 swap a couple years ago and did the 7730 swap a few months ago. So this is what he has now.




Kinda cool to see a Fiero looking motor without a distributor shaft. He will be re-locating the coils at a later date.

If you want to see a few more pics. Just scroll down about 3/4 of the page to the car pics.

http://www.westcoastfieros....sts.asp?TID=381&PN=1


I came across this pic on pg 10... I was thinking This is my plan... But what area would be best for the coils..mentioned? I was going to put them here also. I read that they were going to move them. i wonder if they did?

For heat, I was planning to ceramic coat and wrap some new pipes plus the heat shields.. to keep things cool. It's not my daily driver so only blue skies it sees

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 10-13-2013).]

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Report this Post10-13-2013 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

DIS is simply more percise and accurate than distributor-based ignition timing. The DIS still uses an ignition module; it mounts under the coils.

As mentioned earlier, you CANNOT put DIS directly onto a stock Fiero 2.8 because there are no provisions for it. There are some aftermarket companies out there that make external crank triggers that mount on the balancer so you can run DIS. One that comes to mind is TCE; they can be reached via email at tce@woh.rr.com . Don't know if one of their setups is 100% compatible with the Fiero 2.8 and assy belt drive or not, so you will have to talk to them about it..


Shoot! .... Dead give-a-way of a different block for smog reasons.. Hope they don't pick up on that.. I like the comment about some companies out there that are making external conversions.. I could use that for the excuse and how so..

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 10-13-2013).]

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Report this Post10-13-2013 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

The reluctor wheel is the part the crank sensor senses. The crank sensor is basically a metal detector, so something that has notches in it needs to be on the crank. The sensor sees the notches and tells the ECM. Typically one notch is different than the others, that way the ECM knows where TDC is on the crank.

JazzMan



Since I'm running the 3.4L crank and block.. The crank should already have the notches?... And as I'm reading, the block will also have all the places for these sensors.. I found the knock sensor location but haven't had time to look for the others.

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quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
The cam sensor is only used in SFI applications/computers. The 7730 is NOT SFI; but rather it is batch fire. So the cam sensor will not be used with the 7730 ECM at all.


Found one of my answers... I'm assuming the same goes for the 16198262 ECM? It's timing is all through the crank sensor? Is there any prep to the engine like, putting it at top dead center? How does the computer know?

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 10-13-2013).]

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Report this Post10-14-2013 02:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
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Originally posted by Gwain:

For those of you who have not received your EGR plate yet (you'll know that you're one if you haven't received it):

I did not quite anticipate the demand, and did not run enough to cover all interested parties initially!

We're doing another run this week to cover the rest of you, and put some on the shelf for later. I tried to ship in the order I received addresses. Sorry for the delays.



What are the chances of getting one of those plates today... It was only posted back in 2008...

I'm eager to hear or read what has come up with this whole swapping the systems... If there are any improvements or things we learned along the way....;from page 12 to the 26th

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hiwil88formula
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Report this Post10-15-2013 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

For the EGR adapter plate you might be able to order one from here: http://www.gafiero.org/shop.shtml

The crank position sensor goes in the trunk side of the block around the middle of the block, the knock sensor just screws into the block on one of the coolant ports. The sensor tells the computer what position the crank is in order to fire the right cylinder. You will only need the block mounted CPS.

As far as the coil packs go, the placement is up to you. I placed mine where the factory cruise unit goes and have not had any heat issues with it. I am running headers with no heat wrap either. I also added digital cruise and moved that unit to the firewall around the throttle body.

Hope this helps.

Hywel

[This message has been edited by hiwil88formula (edited 10-15-2013).]

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Report this Post10-24-2013 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the insight... I guess I have everything then.

''''' one more question??... Do I have to set the block at top dead center to get the computer responding correctly for the first start up or does the crank sensor tell the computer what cylinder is firing? How does it know? Is it a different notch that the crank has for TDC? I haven't really looked at it when I had it apart doing the build originally.

------ does anyone have any regrets? Things aren't as planned kind of thing.... All is running great? This is an old thread.... Looking for some feed back now that it has been a couple years.

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Report this Post10-24-2013 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The computer knows what posisition the engine is in, so no it does not have to be on TDC #1. I have been running mine for about 9 months now and have no regrets. I am working on fine tuning with darth fiero and we are very close to having it done. I'm just glad i dont have to really worry about the icm failing when im on a long road trip. One feature I like is it told me when my fuel pump was going out. It threw a code for low voltage at the fuel pump and the next day mine was dead, luckily i was in my driveway when it died.

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Report this Post11-15-2013 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1MohrFieroClick Here to Email 1MohrFieroSend a Private Message to 1MohrFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am planning to complete this upgrade soon and want to thank Ryan and everyone who has contributed to this thread. I plan to make the switch to DIS also and have a quick question as I gather parts. I have a Grooms rebuilt 3.4 that I got from Ed Parks used. Ed pointed out the features when I bought this engine and I think he pointed to a unused object on the side of the engine block and told me that was the crank sensor. Am I remembering right? Is that where it is located on the 3.4 PR? Or is this some other sensor?
TIA

------------------

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Report this Post12-12-2013 04:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for unboundmoClick Here to Email unboundmoSend a Private Message to unboundmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 1MohrFiero:

I am planning to complete this upgrade soon and want to thank Ryan and everyone who has contributed to this thread. I plan to make the switch to DIS also and have a quick question as I gather parts. I have a Grooms rebuilt 3.4 that I got from Ed Parks used. Ed pointed out the features when I bought this engine and I think he pointed to a unused object on the side of the engine block and told me that was the crank sensor. Am I remembering right? Is that where it is located on the 3.4 PR? Or is this some other sensor?
TIA




I believe That's the right location.. You should have a plug in it now. Alternator side lower center...

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Report this Post03-01-2014 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nightscarClick Here to Email nightscarSend a Private Message to nightscarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey guys's
I'm kind of interested in this upgrade for my 2.8 stock Fiero
she has 90k miles and I think this will be a benefit.

I have a few questions.
what is the best ECM to use?
Is there any good walk-throughs out there for this project? I'm pretty good at fixin pc's but circuit boards just confuse me lol
How hard and involved is this project?
Where do I buy the new ECM, thats already programmed?
Where do I buy the digital EGR valve?
I apologize if a lot of these questions where answered in this forum, I just kinda skimmed it.

Ty guys
Todd

------------------
My 1985 Fiero GT

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Knight
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Report this Post03-23-2014 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I also am looking at an upgraded ECM. Will probably go 2.8 stock or 2.8 with dis conversion then 3.4 dis upgrade when my engine fails.
Is the 7730/7749 still the best choice?

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