Ryan: 86 SE 3.4 4T60 7730 with EGR mod. Still fighting multiple issues so they may be related, I just don't know. At startup idle is about 1250 constant for 6-10 seconds then smoothly lowers to 900 as expected. After driving awhile hard downshifts (might be related to needed the adjustable modulator adjusted on the tranny) when coming to a stop idle is at 1300 till it comes to a complete stop like it is watching the vss signal and at 0, idle goes to 900 cough's, idle goes back to 1300- 1500 and the whole car surges a couple of feet. It is possible to do this upwards of 6 times for one attempt to stop, but mostly after the surge it returns to 900 and idles sometimes it just dies. If you slap it into neutral on your approach to a stop it will search a little but seldom dies. No error codes. I have cleaned IAC passages and TB. Disconnected TCC, have looked for a vacuum leak cold and warm. Does the ecm wait for the vss signal to stop assuming load is removed? Any ideas? Mike
Someone mentioned a tool to pull the wires from the harness, where can you get it? I tried a paper clip to pull the wires and it didn't work...
-Brian
yes, the tool, if you can find it is great - I couldn't. what I used was a hairpin. flat stock, scrape off ball at end, use flat side. was just the right size to fit in the little square hole, and hit the realease. tho, with the hairpin - you can go to far into the hole, and pass the realease. I expect the official tool changes sizes, or is marked in some way to not pass the realease.
Part number would be great. I may have to try and stop on the way home from work since they close at something like 3:30pm. They have good stuff but the have bankers hours...
Ryan: 86 SE 3.4 4T60 7730 with EGR mod. Still fighting multiple issues so they may be related, I just don't know. At startup idle is about 1250 constant for 6-10 seconds then smoothly lowers to 900 as expected. After driving awhile hard downshifts (might be related to needed the adjustable modulator adjusted on the tranny) when coming to a stop idle is at 1300 till it comes to a complete stop like it is watching the vss signal and at 0, idle goes to 900 cough's, idle goes back to 1300- 1500 and the whole car surges a couple of feet. It is possible to do this upwards of 6 times for one attempt to stop, but mostly after the surge it returns to 900 and idles sometimes it just dies. If you slap it into neutral on your approach to a stop it will search a little but seldom dies. No error codes. I have cleaned IAC passages and TB. Disconnected TCC, have looked for a vacuum leak cold and warm. Does the ecm wait for the vss signal to stop assuming load is removed? Any ideas? Mike
You will need to hook up a scan tool to the ECM and get me some readings. First thing I want to see is closed throttle TPS voltage, then I want to know what the IAC position counts are doing when you are having these problems. I suspect you either have a vacuum leak or a mis-adjusted throttle stop screw (causing the IAC counts to drop to "0" and forcing the ECM to pull timing advance out to try to get the idle down).
Was on your site looking at the posted info for the 7730 ECM and nothing showed up when I clicked on any of the options, not even a PDF download. Do you know when you will have that info up?
Was on your site looking at the posted info for the 7730 ECM and nothing showed up when I clicked on any of the options, not even a PDF download. Do you know when you will have that info up?
What URL/Page were you on when this happened? (please let me know so I can correct the issue if there is one)
What were you looking for, the wiring instructions download link?
About the 7730 and the speedo.... My speedo registers about 40mph at a walking speed, and bounces off the pin if I go much faster. I am running a 7730 ECM reconditioned by Ryan Hess for a Northstar and have implanted a Quad-4 differential into my 5 spd Getrag transmission. I did not keep the Fiero VSS and opted to use the reluctor VSS from the Quad 4 leaving the notched wheel on the new diff. I have wired the ECM and the VSS per Ryan Hess' diagram, which is exactly the same as info in this thread and on Darth's site as far as the VSS goes. I rung out all the wiring to confirm correctness, and found that I had grounded the speedo low wire (purple) on the chassis ground near the ECM (G503 I think?). I removed the ground but the problem prevails. I am running the buffer circuit, powered by C203-F, but cannot check it since I cast the wiring like a circuit board for mounting puposes. The only check I have left is to replace the buffer with a new one to confirm correctness, but I am confident the one that is there is correct. What might be causing the problem? Do I have to flash the ECM for a different pulse ratio? Dave
I've been thinking about how speed density (SD) systems are sensitive to temperature changes, and the difficulties involved in properly adjusting bias values to help compensate for changes in intake air temperature. When running a MAF system, the MAF seems to handle air density changes due to termperature fluctuations much better than SD.
Are there any code masks out there for the 7730 that are compatible with a 3.1 DIS with both SD and MAF?
From here on the forum I clicked on your homepage link and went to general swap info, the only two links that did not bring up a seperate page under that heading were the two links regarding the 7730 info. I wanted to view both pages to see what info I needed before caontacting you on a custom chip.
i,ve decided to sell my car and have not put the 7730 ecm unit in it. i have almost a compleat turbo kit, that i was going to install into my car. but baby forces sell i will sell all my 7730ecm and turbo parts including injectors for 1500.00 obo i will sell the car and all the parts i have to the first 6500.00 here is my build thread //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087040.html
About the 7730 and the speedo.... My speedo registers about 40mph at a walking speed, and bounces off the pin if I go much faster. I am running a 7730 ECM reconditioned by Ryan Hess for a Northstar and have implanted a Quad-4 differential into my 5 spd Getrag transmission. I did not keep the Fiero VSS and opted to use the reluctor VSS from the Quad 4 leaving the notched wheel on the new diff. I have wired the ECM and the VSS per Ryan Hess' diagram, which is exactly the same as info in this thread and on Darth's site as far as the VSS goes. I rung out all the wiring to confirm correctness, and found that I had grounded the speedo low wire (purple) on the chassis ground near the ECM (G503 I think?). I removed the ground but the problem prevails. I am running the buffer circuit, powered by C203-F, but cannot check it since I cast the wiring like a circuit board for mounting puposes. The only check I have left is to replace the buffer with a new one to confirm correctness, but I am confident the one that is there is correct. What might be causing the problem? Do I have to flash the ECM for a different pulse ratio? Dave
Yes the chip in the ECM needs to be reprogrammed with the correct VSS pulse ratios for your application so your speedo will work correctly.
I've been thinking about how speed density (SD) systems are sensitive to temperature changes, and the difficulties involved in properly adjusting bias values to help compensate for changes in intake air temperature. When running a MAF system, the MAF seems to handle air density changes due to termperature fluctuations much better than SD.
Are there any code masks out there for the 7730 that are compatible with a 3.1 DIS with both SD and MAF?
Cheers
Back when the 7730 ECM was first introduced, both a MAF and a MAP sensor were used. But GM had many problems with those very early MAF systems used with these computers and came out with the "Speed Density Update" which basically disabled the MAF sensor. With all the drivability problems they had with those early MAF systems, I would not attempt to retrofit one of these systems to use it.
Instead what I would do, if you have a new enough engine, would be to use a 1994-95 3100 A-body PCM which is MAF based, or step up to a full-blown OBD2 computer from a newer year. Trouble is all of these systems require a Cam sensor and 2 crank sensors. And I don't think there are any parts available to make a stock Fiero 2.8 or like engine compatible with these systems. Just FYI the 1993-95 iron-head 3.4 F-body V6 does have all of these sensors.
From here on the forum I clicked on your homepage link and went to general swap info, the only two links that did not bring up a seperate page under that heading were the two links regarding the 7730 info. I wanted to view both pages to see what info I needed before caontacting you on a custom chip.
Both of the following links on my "Fiero Engine Conversion Info" page should bring up / display a .PDF document showing the wiring instructions for the 7730 ECM swap (but that is ALL that is shown)...
"How to wire up a 1227730 ECM to your stock Fiero 2.8"
"How to wire up a 1227730 ECM and DIS using the stock Fiero V6 wiring harness"
I don't have any pictures or instructions other than the wiring instructions linked to from those headings. If you were looking for a step-by-step instruction page with pictures, sorry but I don't have those at this time.
Back when the 7730 ECM was first introduced, both a MAF and a MAP sensor were used. But GM had many problems with those very early MAF systems used with these computers and came out with the "Speed Density Update" which basically disabled the MAF sensor. With all the drivability problems they had with those early MAF systems, I would not attempt to retrofit one of these systems to use it.
Instead what I would do, if you have a new enough engine, would be to use a 1994-95 3100 A-body PCM which is MAF based, or step up to a full-blown OBD2 computer from a newer year. Trouble is all of these systems require a Cam sensor and 2 crank sensors. And I don't think there are any parts available to make a stock Fiero 2.8 or like engine compatible with these systems. Just FYI the 1993-95 iron-head 3.4 F-body V6 does have all of these sensors.
Thanks. Based on my set-up it looks like I'll be staying with a SD system. When I'm a bit further along with the engine build I'll PM you about getting a "starter" chip burned.
Ryan: 86 SE 3.4 4T60 7730 with EGR mod. Still fighting multiple issues so they may be related, I just don't know. At startup idle is about 1250 constant for 6-10 seconds then smoothly lowers to 900 as expected. After driving awhile hard downshifts (might be related to needed the adjustable modulator adjusted on the tranny) when coming to a stop idle is at 1300 till it comes to a complete stop like it is watching the vss signal and at 0, idle goes to 900 cough's, idle goes back to 1300- 1500 and the whole car surges a couple of feet. It is possible to do this upwards of 6 times for one attempt to stop, but mostly after the surge it returns to 900 and idles sometimes it just dies. If you slap it into neutral on your approach to a stop it will search a little but seldom dies. No error codes. I have cleaned IAC passages and TB. Disconnected TCC, have looked for a vacuum leak cold and warm. Does the ecm wait for the vss signal to stop assuming load is removed? Any ideas? Mike
The first thing to come to mind is to check the throttle body, and make sure it isn't sticking partially open at idle. Mine was doing that, and it caused similar problems.
Yes the chip in the ECM needs to be reprogrammed with the correct VSS pulse ratios for your application so your speedo will work correctly.
I was hoping that would not be the answer Ryan. Is the reluctor VSS still 4000 pulses per mile? I have bought a chip burner but have not used it yet and still need the software. I'm not looking forward to learning how. I know you have some info on your site though. Wish me luck?
I am noticing a weird thing after my 7730 swap. I am assuming it is happening because the car I got the ECM from was an automatic. When I am driving along, and come up to a light, and push in the clutch, or roll in neutral - the idle surges up & down until I am under roughly 20 MPH.
The only pics I was expecting was any mods that you mentioned on the additon grounding, but to get back on topic I donot even get a option of a PDF download from those links. I will try a friends computer next week and see if I get any luck out of that.
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
Both of the following links on my "Fiero Engine Conversion Info" page should bring up / display a .PDF document showing the wiring instructions for the 7730 ECM swap (but that is ALL that is shown)...
"How to wire up a 1227730 ECM to your stock Fiero 2.8"
"How to wire up a 1227730 ECM and DIS using the stock Fiero V6 wiring harness"
I don't have any pictures or instructions other than the wiring instructions linked to from those headings. If you were looking for a step-by-step instruction page with pictures, sorry but I don't have those at this time.
I am noticing a weird thing after my 7730 swap. I am assuming it is happening because the car I got the ECM from was an automatic. When I am driving along, and come up to a light, and push in the clutch, or roll in neutral - the idle surges up & down until I am under roughly 20 MPH.
i believe that is from the 7730 looking for an auto since it came from an auto car and now it doesnt see one. i swapped my 95 taurus to the SHO MTX-IV, and i had similar problems since the car was originally an auto and i had not changed the pcm/ecm or whatever fraud calls it. but my engine was stalling with every stop and everytime there was no load on the engine or the throttle was off.
Originally posted by Daviero: I was hoping that would not be the answer Ryan. Is the reluctor VSS still 4000 pulses per mile? I have bought a chip burner but have not used it yet and still need the software. I'm not looking forward to learning how. I know you have some info on your site though. Wish me luck?
Sounds to me like the VSS and reluctor you installed into your trans is putting out about 24,000 PPM which is what the later manual transmission VSS/reluctors produced. The ECM chip would need to be reprogrammed to fix this. The only other way to work around this problem besides getting the chip reprogrammed would be to purchase an aftermarket speed sensor signal adjustment box like the SGI-5 from Dakota Digital. But it would probably be cheaper to have your chip reprogrammed.
-ryan
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-09-2008).]
The only pics I was expecting was any mods that you mentioned on the additon grounding, but to get back on topic I donot even get a option of a PDF download from those links. I will try a friends computer next week and see if I get any luck out of that.
You will need to have adobe reader installed on your PC. Then when you click on one of the 7730 swap links on my webpage, it should open a new window or prompt you to download a .pdf file. If you have lots of anti-virus software or similar protection on your computer it may be blocking these links -- but still something should happen when you click on these links that prompts you that a file is trying to be downloaded or something. (do you see the notification bar appear at the top of your browser when you click one of these links?)
I am noticing a weird thing after my 7730 swap. I am assuming it is happening because the car I got the ECM from was an automatic. When I am driving along, and come up to a light, and push in the clutch, or roll in neutral - the idle surges up & down until I am under roughly 20 MPH.
Was the chip reprogrammed for a manual transmission or is it programmed for an auto? This problem could also be caused by a vacuum leak, incorrect throttle stop screw setting, or IAC problem.
Hi all, After a long preparation and following this thread closely, I have finally got this ECM swap done. We usually do all of the work on our Fieros on our own, but this time around the circumstances led me to Darth's shop and getting the job done by the pro himself.
I have no affiliation to Ryan, I emailed him a few times with questions and liked the responses, then we met at the 25th, and that closed the deal for me. Since I was on my long way west, he agreed to do the project ASAP and I was @ his shop 2 days later.
This is not a technical writeup but picture log serving as a description of the general process and the fine work Darth has done on my Fiero. I thank Ryan for his patience, as I was hovering over his shoulder with my camera (as I do in our own projects )
I hope this would clarify the 7730 swap and help others take on this mod.
~~ 7730 ECM Swap ~~ Pictorial description ~~
At the shop
All the parts I've brought with me, most removed from a Beretta GT
Darth Fiero
Wiring harness I got out of the Beretta. Used for the ECM connectors etc.
Center console removed and a hole drilled through the right connector to run the extra wires
(The mess of wires on the left is for my Carputer, and not relevant to this project)
Completing the cabin side wiring, soldering and heat shrink
Installation of the Fiero 88 4cyl ECM tray to match the 7730 ECM
Final wires tapping
ECM installed
EGR control solenoid deleted
Cold start injector disconnected, Fan switch disconnected, Redundant vacuum lines cleared and plugged.
New EVAP control unit installed and wired in place
"Set timing connector" - installed on the distributor wiring to allow adjustment on base timing (The timing plug is just below the spark plug wires. The extra plugs you see are for the MSD box.)
All ready for the tunning
And more tunning...We did several test drives and further tunning to bring the setup to it's best performance and drive ability.
Final product
Out and ready for her maiden voyage 2859 km home...
Since we don’t have exact “numbers” to go by, all my comments below are based of my “feeling” and knowing the car. After this road trip I have noted the following:
- Startup - The car starts up great and rests at the set idle of 850 RPM (sounds nice) - Gas Mileage - I would keep monitoring it, as I did 98% highway driving I did not notice a measurable improvement yet. - Response and power - The engine feels solid and "alive" - no other ways to describe it. - Pinging - My Fiero had pinging issues that we were not able to solve for a long time, this problem prevented me from properly enjoying the car. Needless to say...Bye bye pinging Now with the knock sensor the engine can be pushed and pulled any way I want to, with no fear of internal detonation damage. (I know the real problem that caused the pinging might still exist, but since we tried EVERYTHING...I'm just glad it's gone)
Don't let my subtle ways mislead you, I am extremely satisfied with this mod and positive that with time and new tunning possibilities embedded in this "newer" generation ECM my overall satisfaction and joy of driving will increase.
Given the time and place I would have done this project myself with the help of my Fiero friends. However, I don't think I would have been able to get this project properly done and running within the time restraint and using "trial and error" method.
I would like to objectively and openly recommend Ryan's services in performing this and other performance upgrades. I found him a true Fiero expert and a great guy to deal with. I have paid his asking rate for this job and he has exceeded my expectations in the level of craftsmanship and end result.
I decided to post this info in his original thread so to keep good information in one place. I would keep you posted as I gain more experience driving with this improved engine management system. To all of you that are considering this ECM swap. Go ahead
TTS Datamaster, TunerPro RT, and EFI Live V4 (OBD-1) will all log data from the 7730 running the $58 (Syclone/Typhoon) .bin file I made for you. I think what you buy from moates.net is just the cable, then the scanning/logging software must be downloaded/purchased seperately. The Datamaster software has a 20-use free trial and can be download from the net. The TunerPro RT software is actually a tuning suite but has a scanner plug-in; and is probably going to be your least expensive choice out of these three. EFI Live OBD1 has to be purchased to get the full use out of it.
ok after reading your message agin i relize im an idiot ok so do i need the cable or will my current setup work? currently moates ostrich and tunnerproRT.
ok after reading your message agin i relize im an idiot ok so do i need the cable or will my current setup work? currently moates ostrich and tunnerproRT.
You need an interface cable that will connect the laptop PC to the ALDL port. The Ostrich does not have this capability.
Okay, question on installing a knock sensor. This water jack that people are talking about, is it a hole that is already there and plugged? Does it need to be tapped or is it already threaded? I want make sure that I understand what I am doing before I tear into it.
Hey everyone, ive read this thread before but im scanning through it again because im about to start the wiring for my swap.. again lol. I was given some wrong information the first time but now i should be on the right track. The motor im using is a 3.1lmpfi, im keeping the aluminum heads and intake and running it with the 7730 and DIS. What i have now is the ecm, fiero harness, cavi harness, coils and the thing thats under it forget what its called (ignition module?), crank sensor is in the block still but the knock sensor is not. So my first question is am i missing anything to run DIS besides the knock sensor? Also does anyone have a part # and a price for one? My next series of questions has to do with the wiring itself.
First i printed out the 7730 with DIS chart to work with the fiero harness. I sat down and took a look at the connectors to try and better understand what to do and i got really confused. Looking at the fiero connector's its easy to see on one theres a A and a B on one connector and a C and a D on the other and all the pins are numbered 1 to 16. Where i get lost is that for example it says move pin A1 to BA11? Where the hell did it go from one letter to two? There is also a mistake in the chart on pin D15 the color is blue like D16 not green. Another confusing thing is that the yellow connector like the bigger black connector says C and D on it also.
The other page with the 2 charts on it is also confusing to me in some of the same ways. Where it says pin BA5 and the action to move the a/c presure sensor to terminal B im not understanding where pin BA5 is coming from and where terminal B for the a/c is and so on. The only part i dont get about the lat part again is where pin A-F are? I feel like im missing something because so many others have done this with out any problem but im just not understanding some of these things.
Finally when doing the repinning thats just with the fiero connectors but what do i need to tie in from the yellow one? Im not running an egr on this motor so that is something i dont need for parts and dont need to wire. Thanks for any help, andrew.
edited because i figured some stuff out but still have questions
[This message has been edited by mtownfiero (edited 08-17-2008).]
The water jacket drain hole I spoke about earlier that you can install the knock sensor into is already threaded -- all you need to do is remove the plug and install the knock sensor -- torque sensor to 13 ft/lbs.
You can find both types of ALDL interface cables (USB or 9-pin Serial port) here: www.aldlcable.com
Hey everyone, ive read this thread before but im scanning through it again because im about to start the wiring for my swap.. again lol. I was given some wrong information the first time but now i should be on the right track. The motor im using is a 3.1lmpfi, im keeping the aluminum heads and intake and running it with the 7730 and DIS. What i have now is the ecm, fiero harness, cavi harness, coils and the thing thats under it forget what its called (ignition module?), crank sensor is in the block still but the knock sensor is not. So my first question is am i missing anything to run DIS besides the knock sensor? Also does anyone have a part # and a price for one? My next series of questions has to do with the wiring itself.
First i printed out the 7730 with DIS chart to work with the fiero harness. I sat down and took a look at the connectors to try and better understand what to do and i got really confused. Looking at the fiero connector's its easy to see on one theres a A and a B on one connector and a C and a D on the other and all the pins are numbered 1 to 16. Where i get lost is that for example it says move pin A1 to BA11? Where the hell did it go from one letter to two? There is also a mistake in the chart on pin D15 the color is blue like D16 not green. Another confusing thing is that the yellow connector like the bigger black connector says C and D on it also.
The other page with the 2 charts on it is also confusing to me in some of the same ways. Where it says pin BA5 and the action to move the a/c presure sensor to terminal B im not understanding where pin BA5 is coming from and where terminal B for the a/c is and so on. The only part i dont get about the lat part again is where pin A-F are? I feel like im missing something because so many others have done this with out any problem but im just not understanding some of these things.
Finally when doing the repinning thats just with the fiero connectors but what do i need to tie in from the yellow one? Im not running an egr on this motor so that is something i dont need for parts and dont need to wire. Thanks for any help, andrew.
edited because i figured some stuff out but still have questions
Please go back and read this ENTIRE thread. All of your questions have been addressed earlier in this thread.
Hey Darth the chip that came with my partial KFG kit has one of your chips. Chris Schoope turbo is written on the back of the Sinister Perf chip and v1.0. Can you give me some information on what its tuned for? I sent you an email about this days ago but I guess you missed it. Its pretty important since I hope to start driving it today.
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