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ECM upgrade (1227730) for stock 2.8 by Darth Fiero
Started on: 01-09-2007 02:26 PM
Replies: 1066 (85722 views)
Last post by: turbo86se on 12-18-2017 10:19 AM
blkpearl
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Report this Post12-05-2010 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blkpearlClick Here to visit blkpearl's HomePageClick Here to Email blkpearlSend a Private Message to blkpearlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey guy's I need some help on doing this swap.


I think it's finally time to modernize my 3.4 pushrod with the 7730 ecm swap. I have a 3.4 with Trueleo intake and headers. So I need I will need a custom tune.

My questions are about going with the DIS. It's unclear to me unless I missed something what everyone does with the actual Distributer once it is no longer needed. Is it taken out, or do I remember if it's left in place because it helps run the water pump or something?

I would like to completely take it out if that's possible. And that is my main question.

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Goldenfoot
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Report this Post12-05-2010 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenfootClick Here to Email GoldenfootSend a Private Message to GoldenfootEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The distributor is replaced by a plug that has a gear on it just like a dist. to drive the oil pump. Any car with a 60* V6 with DIS should have one.
Also look at Blacktrees "The Silver Freak Project" It looks and sounds like you guys are doing the same project. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/000049-10.html

http://images.fieroforum.com/i.../2010/P6020089_1.JPG

[This message has been edited by Goldenfoot (edited 12-05-2010).]

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blkpearl
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Report this Post12-05-2010 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blkpearlClick Here to visit blkpearl's HomePageClick Here to Email blkpearlSend a Private Message to blkpearlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thankyou for the response. I have read that because I have the 3.4 I can go DIS. I just needed to know what actually "plugs" the ditributer hole.

Really look forward to doing this.

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Goldenfoot
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Report this Post12-05-2010 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenfootClick Here to Email GoldenfootSend a Private Message to GoldenfootEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That last link is a picture of the one on my car. Thats what you will be looking for.

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scott0999
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Report this Post12-08-2010 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for scott0999Click Here to Email scott0999Send a Private Message to scott0999Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

you can get them off any 60v6 that had DIS (2.8/3.1/3100/3400/3500 ect)

[This message has been edited by scott0999 (edited 12-08-2010).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post12-08-2010 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yeah, if you look in a junkyard, any 2.8 / 3.1 / 3.4 V6 with DIS will have the "dummy distributer" in the engine block. It's basically just the bottom half of a distributer, which is used to drive the oil pump. You may need a putty knife or a thin-blade screwdriver to pry it out. Also remember to get the crank position sensor, which will be down by the oil pan on the firewall side of the engine block (on a FWD car). The parts list for your DIS conversion should be as follows:

-- Mounting Bracket (for module and coils)
-- Ignition Module
-- Coil Packs (3)
-- Crankshaft Position Sensor
-- Dummy Distributer
-- Wiring connectors
-- Spark Plug Wires

You should actually be able to get the 2-wire cable for the crank position sensor intact. It just runs from the sensor to the ignition brick. So you shouldn't need to snip the wires.

I listed the spark plug wires, because chances are your existing ones will not be the right lengths. Also, remember to re-gap your spark plugs to 0.060" after swapping in the DIS setup. And last but not least, the DIS setup does not use a tach filter. It gets deleted. If you need any more tips or info, feel free to drop me a PM.

And just for kicks...

THIS:



Lets you do THIS:





hehe

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Blacktree
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Report this Post12-11-2010 07:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

OK, here's a dumb question: which spark tables should I use for the 3.4 pushrod with DIS? I'm using the A1 code mask, to work with the DIS. But all the bin files for that code mask are for aluminum-head engines. Should I carry over the spark tables from my previous bin file (Camaro 3.1 with distributer)? Or does DIS necessitate changes to the spark timing?

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 12-11-2010).]

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scott0999
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Report this Post12-12-2010 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for scott0999Click Here to Email scott0999Send a Private Message to scott0999Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

OK, here's a dumb question: which spark tables should I use for the 3.4 pushrod with DIS? I'm using the A1 code mask, to work with the DIS. But all the bin files for that code mask are for aluminum-head engines. Should I carry over the spark tables from my previous bin file (Camaro 3.1 with distributer)? Or does DIS necessitate changes to the spark timing?



you should datalog and see if you have any knock with your current settings. if none trying increasing it 2* or so. make another run and check for knock

run the most spark advance you can without any spark induced knock, thats the table you should use

I know thats prolly not the answer you were hoping for but for a custom application thats what you gotta do sometimes

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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post12-13-2010 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here's what the dummy distributor looks like, I got this one out of a 94 Olds Cutlass Supreme 3.1

------------------

1984 Fiero SE

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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post12-13-2010 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by scott0999:

you can get them off any 60v6 that had DIS (2.8/3.1/3100/3400/3500 ect)





The cylinder numbers aren't labeled correctly on that engine?

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Blacktree
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Report this Post12-13-2010 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yeah, they got the banks switched.

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scott0999
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Report this Post12-22-2010 01:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for scott0999Click Here to Email scott0999Send a Private Message to scott0999Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Yeah, they got the banks switched.


lol, ya.. they labeled that at the machine shop just to keep the pistons/rods in order. it didnt have anything to do with the firing order..

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post04-17-2011 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I didn't read ALL 25 pages, but ...Is there a "Wiring Harness Adapter" available with a plug on BOTH ends, to just plug into the original wiring on one end , & the other end plugs into the 7730 without any "repinning" or "cutting" required ? ( Like the adapters they make to "change out stereos") ? Thanks

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randye
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Report this Post04-18-2011 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

I didn't read ALL 25 pages, but ...Is there a "Wiring Harness Adapter" available with a plug on BOTH ends, to just plug into the original wiring on one end , & the other end plugs into the 7730 without any "repinning" or "cutting" required ? ( Like the adapters they make to "change out stereos") ? Thanks


YES

"Mulletproofmonk" was making them, you might try contacting him.
I bought one from him and even though the wires were a bit shorter than I would have made them myself, it worked fine.

------------------

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Lilchief
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Report this Post05-13-2011 03:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LilchiefSend a Private Message to LilchiefEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well it took me 2 days to read most of this thread. Been trying to get the parts together for this swap and got an ECM from a 92 Corsica 3.1. The service # is 01227730, 863411 M111475137, 16173411. Don't know if this was an auto or stick, engine and tranny were both gone. Since it still needs reprogrammed guess it doesn't matter, right ? Also both 32 pin plugs have C&D and 24 pin has A&B. So the green/yellow plug should be E&F, E=C, F=D. Is this right ? Also Ryan since you last tuned my car, can you transfer that info to the new chip ? I am wanting to use the DIS and knock sensor functions also. Any recommendations on a good heated O2 sensor, You said the present one was slow or was that because of the 3" exhaust.

------------------

85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

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scott0999
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Report this Post05-20-2011 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for scott0999Click Here to Email scott0999Send a Private Message to scott0999Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

Well it took me 2 days to read most of this thread. Been trying to get the parts together for this swap and got an ECM from a 92 Corsica 3.1. The service # is 01227730, 863411 M111475137, 16173411. Don't know if this was an auto or stick, engine and tranny were both gone. Since it still needs reprogrammed guess it doesn't matter, right ? Also both 32 pin plugs have C&D and 24 pin has A&B. So the green/yellow plug should be E&F, E=C, F=D. Is this right ? Also Ryan since you last tuned my car, can you transfer that info to the new chip ? I am wanting to use the DIS and knock sensor functions also. Any recommendations on a good heated O2 sensor, You said the present one was slow or was that because of the 3" exhaust.



if the o2 sensor is further away from the manifold than normal, it will take longer to heat up and give a accurate reading. its possible for a non-heated o2 sensor to be so far away it never gets warm enough. even cars with the o2 sensor directly in the manifold can benefit from a heated o2 sensor though. it shouldnt have anything to do with the size of the exhaust pipe itself

I like denso o2 sensors

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TA6SPD
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Report this Post06-28-2011 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TA6SPDClick Here to Email TA6SPDSend a Private Message to TA6SPDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Adaptor plates for the EGR are availible again.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/057540.html

I read all 25 pages and almost ready to do this.

------------------
What does not kill you only makes you stronger!!!
ta6spd@hotmail.com

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fieroluke
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Report this Post09-25-2011 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I finished doing the swap today, and she fired right up. Wo-hoo!
Did a short test drive, everything felt normal or better, so TC so far.

The repinning took only 2 hours (double checking everything), but I did the extra wires with Metripack (inside) and Weatherpack (outside) connectors and made sure everything looks stock (important over here).

I did a few things slightly differently:

I made an EGR harness that runs from the digital EGR, inside the plastic sleeve on the valve cover ending in a four pin Weatherpack connector which fits the stock Fiero EGR connector. This already had 12v and signals for two EGR coils, I removed the ground terminal and inserted a third wire for the third solenoid. This wire goes to the fan switch terminal via a one pin weather pack. This way the engine compartment looks completely stock.

The high side pressure switch wire needs to be cut, and I cut the fan switch wire next to the ECM, feeding one end to the EGR third coil driver, the other end to the fan relay driver.

I also swapped out the Fiero fuel rail for a F-body fuel rail, keeping the Fieo injectors. The new fuel rail doesn't have the hole for the CSV line. I also plugged the CSV hole with a plug from TPIParts.

[This message has been edited by fieroluke (edited 05-01-2012).]

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fieroluke
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Report this Post09-26-2011 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've driven the car for 40 miles today, the engine feels alive! It's hard to explain, but I had a stalling issue when accelerating from a stop - gone. This upgrade is great, I'm very happy with it. I highly recommend it...

Thanks Darth - I always suspected the dark side to be more powerful ;-)

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fieroluke
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Report this Post05-01-2012 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Now that the season is starting again, I have to work out a few wrinkles:

1.) Every so often, I get the SES light, usually when decelerating. Of course there is never a Scantool at hand when that happens, but I suspect it's a Code 32. I'll check if I have a restricted gasket, and I also got a replacement EGR valve.

2.) Highway only mileage at around 80-100 mph is a lot better than before the upgrade (may have to do with 95/98 octane gas here and the knock sensor), but my regular daily driving cycle has about 15% worse mileage than before. I didn't feel the DFCO kick in, is that disabled in the PROM?

3.) Sometimes I get a hard start, and exhaust smells like gas, so it's running too rich. Other times it's fine though...

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lou_dias
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Report this Post05-23-2012 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroluke:

Now that the season is starting again, I have to work out a few wrinkles:

1.) Every so often, I get the SES light, usually when decelerating. Of course there is never a Scantool at hand when that happens, but I suspect it's a Code 32. I'll check if I have a restricted gasket, and I also got a replacement EGR valve.

2.) Highway only mileage at around 80-100 mph is a lot better than before the upgrade (may have to do with 95/98 octane gas here and the knock sensor), but my regular daily driving cycle has about 15% worse mileage than before. I didn't feel the DFCO kick in, is that disabled in the PROM?

3.) Sometimes I get a hard start, and exhaust smells like gas, so it's running too rich. Other times it's fine though...

You should still be able to jump the A & B pins on the ALDL connector to read the codes like normal.

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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post06-07-2012 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

For those who are interested, I have a few bin files of the $88 code mask that are set for both DIS and distributor ignition control. The other thing about the 7730 swap is that there is a way to retain the stock Fiero EGR system and not have to get an adapter for the digital EGR control. Most of the GM code masks have the ability to control the electronic vacuum regulated valve (EVRV) even though GM has gone towards the digital egr for better control and durability.

Another note, I have a tunerpro adx (data-stream definition) for the $88 code mask that has been changed to display the input from a WB02 sensor. A signal of 0-5 volts fed into F14 is displayed in the data-stream. This is of some use when dataloging and using that information to tune later on. Keep in mind I do not have a vehicle with the 7730 in it so I can not test this mod at the moment. If anyone is using the $88 code mask and would like to try this, let me know and I will send you a copy of the ADX file.

Keep tuning my friends,

Chet W.

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lou_dias
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Report this Post06-08-2012 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:

For those who are interested, I have a few bin files of the $88 code mask that are set for both DIS and distributor ignition control. The other thing about the 7730 swap is that there is a way to retain the stock Fiero EGR system and not have to get an adapter for the digital EGR control. Most of the GM code masks have the ability to control the electronic vacuum regulated valve (EVRV) even though GM has gone towards the digital egr for better control and durability.

Another note, I have a tunerpro adx (data-stream definition) for the $88 code mask that has been changed to display the input from a WB02 sensor. A signal of 0-5 volts fed into F14 is displayed in the data-stream. This is of some use when dataloging and using that information to tune later on. Keep in mind I do not have a vehicle with the 7730 in it so I can not test this mod at the moment. If anyone is using the $88 code mask and would like to try this, let me know and I will send you a copy of the ADX file.

Keep tuning my friends,

Chet W.

I'm running an $A1 mask for my 3400 block w/Fiero heads and DIS. What's the difference between that and the $88 modified for DIS?

Thanks,
Lou

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chetw77cruiser
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Report this Post06-08-2012 11:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for chetw77cruiserSend a Private Message to chetw77cruiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

I'm running an $A1 mask for my 3400 block w/Fiero heads and DIS. What's the difference between that and the $88 modified for DIS?

Thanks,
Lou


Surprisingly, not much at all. The $88 code mask may have even been as the basis for the $A1 code mask. I have even used the $A1 code on a distributor application when I started tuning in 98. Used on a 1977 Toyota Landcruiser with TBI. The ADX for the $A1 can also be modified to display the wideband input over the A/C pressure sensor input. That is unless it is in use. The $A1 is also capable of controlling the EVRV egr system as well. Some tuning may be required though.

Side note, has anyone been using either code with the highway fueling mode enabled? Has it made a notable difference? I have used it in other applications and it helped, wondering what others have been able to accomplish.

[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 06-08-2012).]

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Report this Post06-08-2012 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by chetw77cruiser:
Surprisingly, not much at all. The $88 code mask may have even been as the basis for the $A1 code mask. I have even used the $A1 code on a distributor application when I started tuning in 98. Used on a 1977 Toyota Landcruiser with TBI. The ADX for the $A1 can also be modified to display the wideband input over the A/C pressure sensor input. That is unless it is in use. The $A1 is also capable of controlling the EVRV egr system as well. Some tuning may be required though.

Side note, has anyone been using either code with the highway fueling mode enabled? Has it made a notable difference? I have used it in other applications and it helped, wondering what others have been able to accomplish.

I intend to get the A/C working eventually.
What does it take to enable it? Also, what are some performance settings that you could recommend me changing? I'm running 19# injectors and I think I flood my motor at times at idle...well, I occassionally hiccup...

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Report this Post08-23-2012 07:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

You should still be able to jump the A & B pins on the ALDL connector to read the codes like normal.


True, but if I do this with the engine running, the light just indicates rich/lean, no trouble codes. I get trouble codes after cycling the ignition off-on, but that also clears the code :-(

So, no other way than to fire up the scantool with my laptop...

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Fierokid87
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Report this Post04-16-2013 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sorry to bring back an old thread, was there a kit or anything for this ECU swap? I dont have a whole lot of experiene in re-wiring and i dont feel comfortable doing this. If there were someone local I would ask them but there is no one local to help me out. Id like to have my Fiero running good this summer.

------------------
Go here to see more of my Formula: " TARGET=_blank>http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/430754

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hiwil88formula
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Report this Post04-18-2013 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Get with phonedawgs, he does complete wiring harness's. I got mine from him and it works great. Look for his thread in the mall section.

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Fierokid87
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Report this Post04-23-2013 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yeah i cant be without my engine harness. I want to drive the car this year, not let it sit even more which it has now for the last 6 years. One other thing I was wondering too because mine is a 5 speed would I need to find one from a manual trans car?

[This message has been edited by Fierokid87 (edited 04-25-2013).]

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hiwil88formula
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Report this Post04-29-2013 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well if I can get my core shipped out this weekend phone dawgs will have another core to work with. And mine is a 5spd harness.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post05-06-2013 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I wanted to post an update/recap to cover some previously discussed related topics since this thread has gotten quite long and I'm getting a lot of questions that have already been answered in this thread (but may not be easy to find).

V6 N/A CODE MASKS:
The $A1 code mask is the newest available for the 7730 ECM and I have only tested it to work with DIS. Will it work with a distributor? Perhaps. But I haven't tested it so it is something I hesitate to sell as a mail order tune.

There are two versions of the $88 code mask GM used. One was for distributor F-body applications and the other was for FWD DIS applications. The $88 DIS version was not used for very long by GM as they quickly switched to using the $A1 mask instead for DIS applications. I don't have much experience with the $88 DIS mask so much tuning work might be required getting it dialed in (on a custom build especially). Why use the $88 DIS version you ask? It does NOT use a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor like the $A1 code mask requires.

V6 BOOST CODE MASKS:
The $8F code mask was used with the 3.1L Turbo Grand Prix DIS V6 and is set up for a 2-bar MAP sensor. It used a funky EGR valve that had a position sensor which was different than the digital (3-solenoid) EGR valve used by $A1 code mask engines. This EGR valve saw limited production use so I usually recommend anyone wanting to use this code mask just NOT use an EGR valve and have it disabled in the programming. This code mask does NOT use the 3-wire A/C pressure sensor.

The $58 code mask was used with the 4.3L Turbo Syclone and Typhoon distributor V6 engines and is set up for a 2-bar MAP sensor. It also does not use the 3-wire A/C pressure sensor but should be compatible with the stock Fiero EGR valve control system if using one is desired.

OTHER CODE MASKS:
The $8D code mask was used with the TPI V8's and I've heard it can be modified to run a V6. I have not had the chance to experiment with this so it is something I hesitate to sell for a mail-order application. If it can be modified to successfully run a V6 engine, then it would have the benefit of being able to work with the stock Fiero EGR control system.

Code59 is an open-source 3rd party mask that was based off the factory $58 code mask with changes so it could work with a 3-bar MAP and some fairly radical builds. There is an entire website devoted to the Code59 mask if anyone is interested in reading up on it. From what I've read, it sounds like this is an on-going project and people using it frequently experience bugs or other issues so it is not something I'm interested in working with at this time.

7730 NOTES:
It is very important to note that no matter what code mask you are using, the 7730 ECM seems to be much more sensitive to pre-existing electrical and mechanical issues than the stock Fiero ECM is. So if you have any such issues, the 7730 ECM upgrade will probably exacerbate them.

A/C PRESSURE SENSORS:
The $A1 code mask requires a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor be installed on the hi-side of the A/C system to report actual hi-side A/C pressure so the ECM can determine whether or not to activate the A/C clutch relay, when to turn on the radiator cooling fan, and when to raise the desired idle speed (depending on A/C clutch relay state). If you have a working A/C system and you wish for it to remain under ECM control, you MUST install an A/C pressure sensor. Not letting the ECM control the A/C system but having an A/C system installed and working on the car can result in engine stalling and erratic idle problems among other things.

GM used these 3-wire A/C pressure sensors on R12 and R134a systems. 1991-92 W-body GM cars with the 3.1L V6 had R12 and a sensor for or from one of these cars will have the R12 threads. The R12 sensor will screw onto the stock Fiero hi-side test port up in the spare tire compartment, but it needs an O-ring to seal it. The stock Fiero hi-side test port is not machined to accept an o-ring seal so it can be tricky to get one to install with a sensor and seal properly. In the past, I've put 2 o-rings on the fitting then screwed the sensor on and the bottom o-ring helps force the top o-ring into the sensor as it seats. I will tell you it is much easier to get the o-ring to seat and seal if the system does NOT have a charge in it. A fully charged system may make it impossible for you to install the sensor without blowing out the o-ring seal.

All 1994-newer GM cars and trucks used R-134a so a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor from any of these vehicles will have R-134a specific threads. You can have an R-134a pressure sensor fitting welded into a set of existing A/C lines if your welder knows what he or she is doing. I've been able to do it for people without melting/ruining the rubber hose on a set of existing lines that connected the A/C compressor to the Fiero. I can offer this service for a good price to anyone who can send me their A/C lines off their car (PM or email me for more info).

Code masks not requiring the 3-wire A/C pressure sensors are easy to work with on Fiero applications.

DIGITAL EGR ADAPTER PLATES:
See this thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/057540.html

KNOCK SENSOR:
A knock sensor is NOT required when upgrading to the 7730 ECM (but is a very good idea to use if you are putting boost or nitrous on your engine). But if you decide you want to use one, it must be matched up with the mem-cal you are using in the 7730 ECM. The mem-cal is what contains the EPROM chip, cal-pak IC chips, and knock sensor interface circuitry. The mem-cal is what is removable from the 7730 ECM. The EPROM chip and these other devices are soldered onto the mem-cal. There is a 4-LETTER code printed either directly onto the mem-cal's blue cover or onto a silver sticker attached to the EPROM chip inside (or onto the cover) that I can decipher that tells me what year/make/model and engine/trans the mem-cal was used with.

LEAN CRUISE:
On code masks that support it, lean cruise has proven it CAN be buggy in operation at times. I've had some applications where it only worked "right" about 50% of the time. When lean cruise works like it is supposed to, the ECM locks the fuel lean and runs the engine lean (like it is supposed to) while the car is cruising down the highway at a steady speed. When it isn't working right, I've seen it lock into a rich fuel mixture and force the engine to run rich for the time limit the system stays in "lean cruise mode". It is up to the owner to monitor scan data to make sure lean cruise is operating properly if they elect to have it enabled in the programming.

OTHER NOTES:
Like the stock Fiero ECM, the 7730 is aging quickly. If you are working with a stock 2.8L engine, then the 7730 may be your only choice if you want to upgrade from the factory ECM. However, if you are using a newer DIS engine, an OBD2 PCM might be an option for you. OBD2 PCMs do require the 2nd crank sensor (the 24x unit that mounts on the outside of the timing cover and reads a 24x reluctor wheel on the harmonic balancer) and a camshaft position sensor. All production Camaro/Firebird 3.4L SFI engines came with these sensors. The DIS system uses its own 7x crank sensor that reads a reluctor wheel mounted on the crank inside of the block. The DIS ignition module sends a low resolution 7x signal to the ECM which it uses primarily for fuel and base ignition timing control. The 24x sensor is used primarily for misfire detection and finer ignition timing control. The OBD2 PCMs cannot be made to work without the 24x crank sensor at this time. They can be made to work with any manual transmission, a 4T60-E auto, a 4T65-E auto, and perhaps control the TCC solenoid in a stock Fiero 125-C auto (although I have not had the opportunity to test the latter yet).

It is much easier to tune an OBD2 PCM to work with custom builds than it is the 7730 ECM. The OBD2 PCMs primarily use the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor to perform all fuel and spark timing calculations which streamlines the tuning process (yes, they will work with boost too). 7730 and stock Fiero ECMs employ speed density which means they calculate fuel based on RPM and manifold vacuum - which can make tuning tricky, especially when aftermarket cams are used. I will say the stock Fiero 2.8 ECM has a lot more tolerance and is generally easier to work with on custom builds using aftermarket cams than 7730 ECMs are.

-ryan

------------------
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 05-06-2013).]

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sleevePAPA
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Report this Post05-07-2013 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Mind if I piggyback?

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

I wanted to post an update/recap to cover some previously discussed related topics since this thread has gotten quite long and I'm getting a lot of questions that have already been answered in this thread (but may not be easy to find).

V6 N/A CODE MASKS:
The $A1 code mask is the newest available for the 7730 ECM and I have only tested it to work with DIS. Will it work with a distributor? Perhaps. But I haven't tested it so it is something I hesitate to sell as a mail order tune.
RobertSaar has written a killer version of $A1, called nAst1. It will work with a dizzy, ref angles and such will need to be modified AFAIK. Its a little more advanced but offers alot, iirc a newer P4 variant is needed or ram added to the 7730? Cant get to the thread where it lives right now, its at 60degreev6.com if interested.


OTHER CODE MASKS:
The $8D code mask was used with the TPI V8's and I've heard it can be modified to run a V6. I have not had the chance to experiment with this so it is something I hesitate to sell for a mail-order application. If it can be modified to successfully run a V6 engine, then it would have the benefit of being able to work with the stock Fiero EGR control system.
Im currently using $8D, more specifically, S_AUJPV4. As long as the V6 memcal(netres) is used. A few things need to be changed in the code. I have the analog EGR and CCP working and a heated NBO2 with lean cruise enabled. I can give more details if needed. And BTW, WBO2 is patched directly into the .adx.


LEAN CRUISE:
On code masks that support it, lean cruise has proven it CAN be buggy in operation at times. I've had some applications where it only worked "right" about 50% of the time. When lean cruise works like it is supposed to, the ECM locks the fuel lean and runs the engine lean (like it is supposed to) while the car is cruising down the highway at a steady speed. When it isn't working right, I've seen it lock into a rich fuel mixture and force the engine to run rich for the time limit the system stays in "lean cruise mode". It is up to the owner to monitor scan data to make sure lean cruise is operating properly if they elect to have it enabled in the programming.

Ive had this problem as well, but its working pretty flawlessly now(with $8D). If the BLM is constantly fluctuating more than a couple of counts(per cell), then there will be issues. If the MAT comp vs Temp table is off (or Baro correction) Ive noticed a swing of 8-10 counts. Setting highway max fuel to ~60 secs with a 10-15 second re-enable delay helps let the BLM move(if it needs to). Adding spark also helps regain some power with highway fuel is enabled, so far im my max commanded spark is ~45*, ZERO knock counts. An O2 gauge with volt readout is mandatory, IMO, to monitor AFR's while cruising. If AFR's go too rich/lean, a quick blip of the throttle(to push past max load scaler) will turn off highway mode so that the BLM can adjust.
-ryan


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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post05-08-2013 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sleevePAPA:

Mind if I piggyback?



Not at all. The $8D mask is what I'm most interested in at this point. But I need to get a car physically here for me to get my hands on so I can perform some intensive testing on it. I don't like turning mail order customers into guinea pigs because it can take forever to work out bugs thru the mail, and I just don't like doing that.

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Report this Post05-08-2013 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


Not at all. The $8D mask is what I'm most interested in at this point. But I need to get a car physically here for me to get my hands on so I can perform some intensive testing on it. I don't like turning mail order customers into guinea pigs because it can take forever to work out bugs thru the mail, and I just don't like doing that.


Too bad I didnt live near you otherwise Id stop by and let you get aquainted with it LOL. Once you get the basics set up, i.e. injector size, cyl vol, cylinder select bit/scaler, base timing; its fairly easy to start getting the fuel/spark dialed in. I did patch the VE/spark adv tables from $24. If you need anything let me know and ill send you what I have, keep in mind its S_AUJP and it uses its own bin, bin def and adx. Its pretty much the same as $8D but with some stuff moved around and higher resolution tables.

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Report this Post05-12-2013 12:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

*edit*

just found out that $8D has the A/C controls(corvette). Trigger wire is supposed to be at F3 for A/C clutch relay.

So for $8D the dk blu wire from pin C2(7170 ecm) needs moved to F3(7730/7727).

*edit again* It works now, spliced into E8 with added pin at D3

AC option 2 at the bottom of the page....

http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_P4_Drawings.php

[This message has been edited by sleevePAPA (edited 05-12-2013).]

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ericjon262
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Report this Post05-15-2013 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by sleevePAPA:

Mind if I piggyback?



link to nAst1:

http://60degreev6.com/forum...-and-Concepts-Thread

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Report this Post05-18-2013 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierokid87Click Here to Email Fierokid87Send a Private Message to Fierokid87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think the thing that really scares me (and I sent a PM to Darth about this) is the wiring. I don't feel comfortable having to re-pin or rewire or even add new sensors. But I guess Ive already stated that too many times........Sorry. I'm hoping I could get some help hands on re-wiring my formula for this. My car has a 3.2 and i think this ECU would be a huge jump in performance of this motor.

------------------
Go here to see more of my Formula: <A Class="HTMLBodyLink" HREF="http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/430754
" TARGET=_blank>http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/430754
</A>

[This message has been edited by Fierokid87 (edited 05-18-2013).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post06-30-2013 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You can always pay Darth to do it for you. He does good work.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post07-25-2013 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm just about to finish up a 7730 ECM conversion that's in my shop. It is a Fiero 2.8 5-speed, mostly stock w/ distributor; and it's my first attempt at working with the $8D (V8) code mask programming.

I started out with using a stock 1990 Camaro 305 TPI 5-speed chip program and altered it to work with the 2.8 V6. I basically imported all the stock FIero V6 timing tables and made changes for the different displacement, injector size, and number of cylinders. I did NOT change any of the fuel tables to start because they are different in the $8D mask compared to the stock Fiero ECM ($24 mask).

The car started and ran great right out of the box with the stock 305 fuel table settings. Only minor tweaks were required in a few areas to dial in the fuel trims. I did notice the stock 305 open loop settings had this 2.8 running a little lean while in open loop so I had to richen those settings up a bit. Also, the stock 305 WOT fueling was a bit too rich for this stock 2.8 so I had to dial those back. But other than that, it runs great and highway mode fuel (lean cruise) works very well and as intended.

A couple of things you need to know about the F-body $8D mask:
1) There is no ECM control of the A/C clutch relay. So that needs to be bypassed electrically so it will still work. (I'm looking into this since the Corvette version of the $8D did control the A/C clutch)

2) Even changing the number of cylinders constant to "192" (which is what it should be for a V6) still produced a code 41 (cylinder select error) even though I was using a V6 mem-cal. Not quite sure what is going on here so I just disabled code 41. RPM readout on the scan is accurate for the V6 and everything is working fine. (EDIT TO ADD: I think I may have found out what is going on here but I need to test it and see if it is fixed - will advise).

3) The $8D mask will run the stock Fiero 2.8 EGR system however it does NOT use the stock Fiero EGR diagnostic switch circuit to check EGR operation. The code 32 EGR diagnostic that runs looks for a fuel trim change when the EGR diagnostic is running so it is not clear if this diagnostic will work properly in all applications due to differences in engine builds, exhaust systems, etc. Since this particular 2.8 application is not 100% bone stock, I disabled code 32 to prevent false setting of this code.

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-25-2013).]

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Report this Post07-25-2013 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:

I'm just about to finish up a 7730 ECM conversion that's in my shop. It is a Fiero 2.8 5-speed, mostly stock w/ distributor; and it's my first attempt at working with the $8D (V8) code mask programming.

I started out with using a stock 1990 Camaro 305 TPI 5-speed chip program and altered it to work with the 2.8 V6. I basically imported all the stock FIero V6 timing tables and made changes for the different displacement, injector size, and number of cylinders. I did NOT change any of the fuel tables to start because they are different in the $8D mask compared to the stock Fiero ECM ($24 mask).

The car started and ran great right out of the box with the stock 305 fuel table settings. Only minor tweaks were required in a few areas to dial in the fuel trims. I did notice the stock 305 open loop settings had this 2.8 running a little lean while in open loop so I had to richen those settings up a bit. Also, the stock 305 WOT fueling was a bit too rich for this stock 2.8 so I had to dial those back. But other than that, it runs great and highway mode fuel (lean cruise) works very well and as intended.

A couple of things you need to know about the F-body $8D mask:
1) There is no ECM control of the A/C clutch relay. So that needs to be bypassed electrically so it will still work. (I'm looking into this since the Corvette version of the $8D did control the A/C clutch)

2) Even changing the number of cylinders constant to "192" (which is what it should be for a V6) still produced a code 41 (cylinder select error) even though I was using a V6 mem-cal. Not quite sure what is going on here so I just disabled code 41. RPM readout on the scan is accurate for the V6 and everything is working fine. (EDIT TO ADD: I think I may have found out what is going on here but I need to test it and see if it is fixed - will advise).

3) The $8D mask will run the stock Fiero 2.8 EGR system however it does NOT use the stock Fiero EGR diagnostic switch circuit to check EGR operation. The code 32 EGR diagnostic that runs looks for a fuel trim change when the EGR diagnostic is running so it is not clear if this diagnostic will work properly in all applications due to differences in engine builds, exhaust systems, etc. Since this particular 2.8 application is not 100% bone stock, I disabled code 32 to prevent false setting of this code.

-ryan



AXXD?

the 7730 will control the A/C relay, heres a link for you to reference. I managed to figure it out with the help of RBob on the TGO

http://www.thirdgen.org/tec...-clutch-control.html

For cylinder select, there is also a bit that needs to be turned off iirc. I will check and get back to you a little later.

For EGR I havent had an issue yet, only thing that sucks is $8D uses a partial pressure table to adjust fueling with EGR DC. Other bcc's ive seen use a 3D table which is more accurate.

In the mean time, if you need anything let me know.

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