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A Real Mera in Paradise by Fiero-in-Paradise
Started on: 08-18-2009 04:06 AM
Replies: 6662 (157935 views)
Last post by: hnthomps on 11-15-2017 08:18 PM
hnthomps
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Report this Post08-18-2011 09:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Wayne Wm. Peterson:

Hay, this guy is cutting on our Mera's! If he thinks our cars are junk, whats the "barn stale" P.O.S. that he is trying to sell?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...hash=item336ac56a08.


His car most certainly needs some TLC!

Nelson

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Report this Post08-18-2011 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JulianClick Here to Email JulianSend a Private Message to JulianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well I had a nice laugh reading that guy's "Stinger" add. My comment is that the MERA is a Pontiac Mera, not a Ferrari knock off. Sure the lines are close but if anyone know's Ferrari they would know the differance is night and day. Sure there are Mera owners who badge their car as a Ferrari and I'm sure the Stinger will win hands down if you had to see who has the better knock-off. The trunk prop could use an upgrade on the stinger LOL. But he is right that he has the nice spoiler, proper pop up lights, reverse lights, opening sail panels, even the interior is closer to a Ferrari. I would go back a page in this thread where we discussed what a kit car is and what a rebody is. The Stinger is probably a great KIT from what I see. Wait, I mean it WAS probably a great kit once. I would take the Mera over the Stinger any day....as for Dan looking for a doner to do a Northstar engine swap, what a perfect car!!!!!!!!!!! It is a cool kit.

edit-------------------------

I just looked back at the price he is starting at $8000 for a car that needs tires, has not been started in 2 years, has rust, needs paint, needs a/c, needs a lot of TLC, A LOT! Not to mention that the reason Fiero's were never Targa tops is because the space frame design NEEDS a roof member to keep the frame from sagging specially if it's RUSTY! So what I said above was ok if he wanted a few thousand dollars, but 8K for that piece of crap? ....and it's an 84? Wow the guy must be smoking something. I hope he pops on this web site so he could appreciate what he ain't got! 'buia-chaka snap"

------------------
Julian - MERA #8071

[This message has been edited by Julian (edited 08-18-2011).]

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reholmes
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Report this Post08-18-2011 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Seems to me the Miami Vice car was a McBurnie Daytona Spyder--that I would certainly take over the Stinger. There have been some beautiful Stinger implementations--especially the 355 Spyder--and I like the Targa, but I think across the mark, the Mera wins hands down.

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Report this Post08-18-2011 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mera_CopClick Here to Email Mera_CopSend a Private Message to Mera_CopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rick 88:

Northbound and down......Gunnison here we come (hopefully). One 86 GT, one 88 Formula, and one 88 Mera traveling together.
First stop Santa Fe tonight. Then into Gunnison tomorrow.


Post some pics in front of Blue Mesa Lake! I was born in Gunnison and miss it there. Have fun and be safe!

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Fieromaineac
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Report this Post08-18-2011 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaineacClick Here to Email FieromaineacSend a Private Message to FieromaineacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've seen that Stinger before, last year when he was done haying the fields with it.

He must have just finished plowing the fields with it!

[This message has been edited by Fieromaineac (edited 08-18-2011).]

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Wayne Wm. Peterson
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Report this Post08-19-2011 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wayne Wm. PetersonSend a Private Message to Wayne Wm. PetersonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yeah, can you image the job of finding those "missing" parts for this AMT Kit Car! I think the Mera is cleaner, more balanced design, and as for the interior: Most "False Ferrari's" have crummy miss-fitted interiors, I will take a Fiero interior over nearly all of them, PLUS, our interiors are 10 years newer, a bit square, but still newer.
And unlike both the Stinger and a 308, our system(s) still work.

I would give him $1,500.00, delivered.

Waynum

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reholmes
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Report this Post08-19-2011 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here are the top five fastest roads in the U.S.

5. Arizona State Route 77
Northbound out of Tucson to the AZ-76/Redington Road interchange near San Manuel Airport
Average speed of fastest 5%: 81 mph
Top speed clocked by INRIX: 81 mph
Length of corridor: 4.8 miles

4. Eastbound MI-5 Michigan Highway
Heading into Detroit from the I-275/I-96 interchange to Telegraph Road
Average speed of fastest 5%: 81 mph
Top speed clocked by INRIX: 83 mph
Length of corridor: 4.9 miles

3. California State Route 73
In both directions between Moulton Parkway and Bear Street
Average speed of fastest 5%: 81 mph
Top speed clocked by INRIX: 85 mph
Length of corridor: 14.8 miles

2. Oklahoma State Highway 33
In both directions just Northwest of Oklahoma City
Average speed of fastest 5%: 83 mph
Top speed clocked by INRIX: 87 mph
Length of corridor: 24

1. Northbound Arizona State Route 79
Between Saguaro National Park and Phoenix (where Tom Mix died in his Duesenberg)
Average speed of fastest 5%: 88 mph
Top speed clocked by INRIX: 94 mph
Length of corridor: 17.6 miles

------------------
Dick
Mera #8046
1987 GT - T-boned (RIP)

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LT188GT
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Report this Post08-19-2011 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LT188GTClick Here to Email LT188GTSend a Private Message to LT188GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Please tell me what INRIX is.

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batousai666
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Report this Post08-19-2011 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ohhhh yeah!!! MI made the list......i swear that Lakeshore Dr in Chicago is faster.....or just maybe funer
my guess is the INRIX may have to do with them black wires across the roads i see from time to time.
the ones with the double line stretch....is for speed calcuations maybe

*edit*

INRIX is the leading-provider of traffic information, directions and driver services, as well as apps and tools all designed to get your traffic-powered solutions to market rapidly. Intelligently combining the best data from the largest traffic network in the world with game-changing technologies, auto manufacturers, mobile developers, transportation agencies, fleet and Internet companies, INRIX helps to set themselves apart. Together we give customers the power to go anywhere.
getyasum!!!!

d

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 08-19-2011).]

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Report this Post08-19-2011 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

OBTW, Tom Mix died driving a Cord.

[This message has been edited by reholmes (edited 08-19-2011).]

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batousai666
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Report this Post08-19-2011 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ohhhhh fellas??????

http://transmission.blogs.t...s-episode-5-preview/



looks like its has the real trunk hatch.....hard to see but there is something there

SUNDAY,SUNDAY,SUNDAY!!! 10 pm History channel.....you have been informed*endtransmission*

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 08-19-2011).]

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Report this Post08-19-2011 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaineacClick Here to Email FieromaineacSend a Private Message to FieromaineacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That rear hatch is NOT Ferrari! That car is a Kitcar or Mera!! TiVo programmed ready to catch that Top Gear show.

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batousai666
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Report this Post08-19-2011 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Fieromaineac:

That rear hatch is NOT Ferrari! That car is a Kitcar or Mera!! TiVo programmed ready to catch that Top Gear show.


yeah they mention the Fiero underneath on the TV trailer.....that part is known. but is it a Mera??? thats my inquiry
i see a line back there......or maybe a reflection telephone pole????



cant wait for this!!!! go figure TopGear USA 2 seasons.....2 Fieros. awesome!!

getyasum!!!

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 08-20-2011).]

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Report this Post08-19-2011 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wayne Wm. PetersonSend a Private Message to Wayne Wm. PetersonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What are you guys talking about? What line, what reflection?

The strangest thing I see is that they bought a "Mera" for five grand, and a Rolls for five too?
No way, unless they both came in a cardboard box. This USA Top Gear team is really lame, no where the talent of the UK team. All I can figure is they have film of the producer and a sheep, maybe two.

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Report this Post08-20-2011 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Wayne Wm. Peterson:

What are you guys talking about? What line, what reflection?



at the bottom of the black line......it looks like something is there.


i feel that if this was a Mera we would know.i cannot find any pics of it in my Mera stuff
so after Richard found it, i am sure it is in the thread here somewhere and its a "KIT."
still cool to have on a National TV show.
hopefully they Mention the Mera as the "Grandfather of 308 Kits"

i cant wait to rip it apart to see. screen caps if i can convert signal
i think the rear panel "Door Scoop" looks more round and tapered than ours.


i got the weekend off finally time to find why Mera X is idling at 2200 RPM

later

d

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 08-20-2011).]

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Wayne Wm. Peterson
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Report this Post08-20-2011 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wayne Wm. PetersonSend a Private Message to Wayne Wm. PetersonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

KIT CAR period.
Look at those mirrors, the hood, is there a gas cap? Plus at fives g's it has to be kit.
Will this also run "on-line," I don't have cable.

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Report this Post08-20-2011 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by batousai666:


so after Richard found it,


i got the weekend off finally time to find why Mera X is idling at 2200 RPM




Not this "Richard"

Dan, check first for vacuum leaks, especially deteriorated vacuum hoses--the little ones around the cans and the EGR solenoid. Having said that, 2200 is really high, can't imagine a vac leak doing that much. Check that your not throwing a code--code 35 I think is the one for the idle circuit. There's also a IAC "relearn" process if you have removed power from the ECM.

I'm sure Nelson or Rick have more experience with this than me. Good luck!

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Report this Post08-20-2011 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Today I am gluing up some console pieces to get them back to shape. Got the center console around the radio gluing up at the moment and the center console sitting in the sun so I can stretch it a bit. Then I will glue that one up, let them sit until tomorrow, and install those babies!!! After that the MERA only needs front speakers to get her back fully on the road. They are on the way...hopefully fully functional.

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 08-20-2011).]

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Report this Post08-20-2011 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JulianClick Here to Email JulianSend a Private Message to JulianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The pic is a good looking kit on a Fiero. I don't realy see the line Dan however I do see the gas cap (not in the sail panel), the sun roof (not a targa), the key hole in the door (away fron the edge), no door hadle (hidden in the recess).....


edit--------------------

I take it back Dan, I think I do see the line.

------------------
Julian - MERA #8071

[This message has been edited by Julian (edited 08-20-2011).]

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Fieromaineac
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Report this Post08-21-2011 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieromaineacClick Here to Email FieromaineacSend a Private Message to FieromaineacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Car on Top Gear is NOT a Mera, it is a STINGER! (with a 4 banger)

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Report this Post08-22-2011 01:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It did look like a Stinger--maybe a PISA dash.

What's the fastest we've gone in our Meras? About 80 is my top, but then my old 245&255/50-15s are pretty square. Saves big bucks on tickets!

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Report this Post08-22-2011 05:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by reholmes:

It did look like a Stinger--maybe a PISA dash.

What's the fastest we've gone in our Meras? About 80 is my top, but then my old 245&255/50-15s are pretty square. Saves big bucks on tickets!


110 mph......i had to see for myself

fell asleep before the TopGear show.....and its off to work now.....so later.

a Stinger,eh??? cool

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Report this Post08-22-2011 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JulianClick Here to Email JulianSend a Private Message to JulianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Stinger eh? The headlights and front hood don't look like the e-Bay Stinger. Strange.

So was the show any good? I been watching older episodes and it's a pretty cool show. They realy make fun of Americans.

I like the one show where they wanted to drive the GREATEST ROAD in the world. It is located in Romania however they read a fan letter saying that the Blue Ridge Parkway is the best by far. So they brought over 3 cars, the new Mercedes Gull Wing, the new Porsche Turbo and the new Ferrari Italia. They drove the speedlimit LOL. It was so funny seeing the 3 cars doing 35 - 45 PMH. So they gave up and went to NASCAR country where they tore up an oval track. All the time making fun of the good ol country boys. Those UK blokes are funny.

------------------
Julian - MERA #8071

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Report this Post08-22-2011 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I really don't think it's funny to destroy stuff. In a past episode they destroyed a cherry K-car, a pretty nice and somewhat rare VW P/U, and a quite restorable CRX. I think a better show would have been to demonstrate how these cars could still have a useful life. I guess they have a large "demolition derby" type following, but I don't think "car guys" appreciate the senseless destruction. Just saying.

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Report this Post08-22-2011 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Close to 130 on the way back from the 3800 SC Series III engine install (2:00 AM on a wide open interstate). Tires were 265 x 50 x 15 on all corners.

Nelson

 
quote
Originally posted by reholmes:

What's the fastest we've gone in our Meras? About 80 is my top, but then my old 245&255/50-15s are pretty square. Saves big bucks on tickets!


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Report this Post08-22-2011 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nelson, was that the limit, or did you back off?

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Rick 88
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Report this Post08-22-2011 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Mera_Cop:


Post some pics in front of Blue Mesa Lake! I was born in Gunnison and miss it there. Have fun and be safe!



We are back. Had a great time, but my camera died. I am waiting for my friends to send me their pics. The Mera did great on the road. The Mile High Fieros had some nice cars in Gunnison. One was Skitimes old GT. This is an amazing car. There was a pristine 88 GT 5 speed in red with the gold lace wheels. A yellow GT witha a matching yellow tuned port small block, a really nice maroon 88 Formula 3.4, a racy looking white 88 Formula also with 3.4, plus our group brought an 88 red Formula 5speed, a 22,000 mile white 86 GT automatic, oh.... and one Mera. I have never answered so many questions about a car in my life. Also the local constabulary tended to want to pace us on the road for some reason. You cannot be incogneto in a Mera....

There were many great cars there. My favorite was a 69 RS/SS Camaro Convertible white with a red interior and white top owned by an older lady. It was showroom perfect.....because it was an 18,000 mile garage kept, unrestored original. It was the cleanest old Camaro I have ever seen.

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Report this Post08-22-2011 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/086732.html


Guys, here are some pictures from the trip and show.

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Report this Post08-22-2011 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MERA 8088 got treated to a reglue of her old interior pieces. She is reassembled now and needs two more things: front speakers and headliner/visors. She will then be complete!

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Report this Post08-22-2011 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I believe that I had some throttle left but elected not to go any higher since I do have more than 200,000 miles on this vehicle (and I was a bit nervous since this was my first run with this engine). A garage owner took it up to 115 recently and had a lot remaining when he backed off.

Nelson

 
quote
Originally posted by reholmes:

Nelson, was that the limit, or did you back off?


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Report this Post08-23-2011 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JulianClick Here to Email JulianSend a Private Message to JulianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I just saw an article that I find hard to belive.
Fiero GT 0-60 was 7.5 and the Ferrari 308 was 7.9????
Also the GT 1/4 mile was 15.7@87 and the 308 was 16.1@83????

Is that correct?
Did the Mera fiberglass increase the weight of the Fiero GT to reduce these numbers?

------------------
Julian - MERA #8071

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Report this Post08-23-2011 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Julian:

I just saw an article that I find hard to belive.
Fiero GT 0-60 was 7.5 and the Ferrari 308 was 7.9????
Also the GT 1/4 mile was 15.7@87 and the 308 was 16.1@83????

Is that correct?
Did the Mera fiberglass increase the weight of the Fiero GT to reduce these numbers?



Julian, the article you saw was correct. Actually early Weber carbed 308's and later Quattrovalvole 308's were faster, but the early injected 308's were indeed slower than a properly running fiero until they got to high speed where the Ferrari engine developed more top end power.

The Mera is heavier than the stock Fiero due to the bodywork. I owned a stock 88 GT 5-speed and my Mera at the same time. My GT was quicker until I installed the 3.4 in the Mera. Now my Mera will easily pull a stock 88 Formula 5-speed which is even lighter than a GT. It is my opinion that the Mera bodywork adds at least 150 lbs to the car. Does anyone have an exact weight difference?

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Report this Post08-23-2011 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JulianClick Here to Email JulianSend a Private Message to JulianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think this came up a long time ago...... but may not have had the volume of Mera owners at the time.... so here goes again....

How about someone out there with PHOTOSHOP talent design us a "Pennock Mera Owner's Group" window sticker? Maybe include an area where we can insert or Mera Number (or an X).

------------------
Julian - MERA #8071

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Report this Post08-23-2011 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Guys,

I just acquired a stock of original Mera tail light lenses (12 red and 4 amber) and some miscellaneous items. They appear to be NOS and will be available to Mera owners for exactly what I have in them plus shipping. I also have a couple of backup light assemblies that are relatively good and four new 2.8 V6 emblems. Let me know if anyone needs lenses or the emblems. It is not a bad idea to stock a few spares for the future.












Nelson

[This message has been edited by hnthomps (edited 08-29-2011).]

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Julian
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Report this Post08-23-2011 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JulianClick Here to Email JulianSend a Private Message to JulianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

PM sent Nelson

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reholmes
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Report this Post08-23-2011 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Julian:

I think this came up a long time ago...... but may not have had the volume of Mera owners at the time.... so here goes again....

How about someone out there with PHOTOSHOP talent design us a "Pennock Mera Owner's Group" window sticker? Maybe include an area where we can insert or Mera Number (or an X).


Zigaroo has the talent, and the svg software, to do really quality work. But wait, isn't Wayne a graphic designer?

[This message has been edited by reholmes (edited 08-23-2011).]

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reholmes
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Report this Post08-23-2011 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for reholmesClick Here to Email reholmesSend a Private Message to reholmesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Julian:

I just saw an article that I find hard to belive.
Fiero GT 0-60 was 7.5 and the Ferrari 308 was 7.9????
Also the GT 1/4 mile was 15.7@87 and the 308 was 16.1@83????

Is that correct?
Did the Mera fiberglass increase the weight of the Fiero GT to reduce these numbers?



This has been around awhile: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/133...8%20and%20others.pdf

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Wayne Wm. Peterson
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Report this Post08-23-2011 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wayne Wm. PetersonSend a Private Message to Wayne Wm. PetersonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




Zigaroo has the talent, and the svg software, to do really quality work. But wait, isn't Wayne a graphic designer?

[/QUOTE]

Thats "Waynum pi" to you desert rat.
And yes he is

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batousai666
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Report this Post08-23-2011 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

Guys,

I just acquired a stock of original Mera tail light lenses (12 red and 4 amber) and some miscellaneous items. They appear to be NOS and will be available to Mera owners for exactly what I have in them plus shipping. I also have a couple of backup light assemblies that are relatively good and four new 2.8 V6 emblems. Let me know if anyone needs lenses or the emblems. It is not a bad idea to stock a few spares for the future.

Nelson


hey not too far from when you posted this you feel me knocking??? Magnitude 5.8, maybe????

i most likely should get a set of both reds and ambers.....i have been hard on the ole X, lately

you good? the shakey, shakey was to have been felt up here in MI. i however.....felt nothing. typical

Daniel

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 08-23-2011).]

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Rick 88
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Report this Post08-23-2011 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Wayne Wm. Peterson:

Zigaroo has the talent, and the svg software, to do really quality work. But wait, isn't Wayne a graphic designer?



Thats "Waynum pi" to you desert rat.
And yes he is
[/QUOTE]


Well "Waynum pi" it look like you need to get graphic designing!

The other desert rat

By the way, there are these tall green things in Colorado.....any idea????

[This message has been edited by Rick 88 (edited 08-23-2011).]

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