Sad to hear the issues. I can totally understand as some of mine have had the same sour moments. You expect a quick upgrade and the whole thing turns into a problem solving nightmare. Just hang in there.
I've got a very high degree of confidence that this long duration change over will be "Awesome" when all the issues are taken care of. The few outings I made with the car, even with a bad tune, were very exciting!!!
At this point I don't know if we can get a good final tune (has to be tuned on the road with laptop) until next Spring. I have concerns with throttle body icing in these winter cold Michigan temperatures, locking the butterfly's open, and the last thing I need is a wrecked car.
I had been wondering how your car was coming on, sounds like you are at least finding the issues that were causing problems and solving them, keep us updated on the issues, especially the cooling problem.
------------------ 84SE, aero body, 4 speed and an injected 355 V8
Not much new to add at this time, as posted earlier the car made it back from the Engine Builder's Shop with valve springs replaced, car returning to Shop that installed engine. However..........Engine Builder Shop did not properly route and secure the electrical engine harnesses along both front and rear head banks (which had to be moved during valve spring replacement). This resulted in the electrical harnesses laying on the exhaust headers, and you can guess what happened. More repairs required that I will have to bill Engine Builder for.
Shop where I have the car currently has had my car on "low priority" as they know I don't drive it during winter. I've got to raise the level of awareness as Spring will come before we know it, and I want to get the car into Paint Shop for a few things before spring. Items remaining at shop are repair electrical harnesses, install new clutch disc's set, add an additional coolant line to rear of each cylinder head, and re-program engine computer.
that's a pretty decent sized punch list... sucks about the wiring harness. Seems like a little common sense and caution would have gone a LONG way there...
Well, at least you don't have to worry about the intake butterflies icing open THIS winter! (IIRC, that was a consideration at some other point in this thread)
Is the rebuilder shop giving you any $ headache on the wiring harness or clutch fiasco they caused?... I was also curious of the engine builder completely rectified their mistake without you having to pay any extra. I hope they did... it is just, I would imagine that they would look to blame any other reason for failure, other than their negligence... and then try to recover their cost by forcing some other means onto you.
Hope that is not the case for you... and looking forward to some Springtime updates.
Originally posted by California Kid: Shop where I have the car currently has had my car on "low priority" as they know I don't drive it during winter.
Ill make you a deal, I will get the shop to get into gear and finish the car and have it shipped here so I can "take care of it" during the winter. Not as cold here, I will keep air in the tires and gas in the tank then ship it back to you when its your turn. Whaddya say?
that's a pretty decent sized punch list... sucks about the wiring harness. Seems like a little common sense and caution would have gone a LONG way there...
Well, at least you don't have to worry about the intake butterflies icing open THIS winter! (IIRC, that was a consideration at some other point in this thread)
Is the rebuilder shop giving you any $ headache on the wiring harness or clutch fiasco they caused?... I was also curious of the engine builder completely rectified their mistake without you having to pay any extra. I hope they did... it is just, I would imagine that they would look to blame any other reason for failure, other than their negligence... and then try to recover their cost by forcing some other means onto you.
Hope that is not the case for you... and looking forward to some Springtime updates.
The whole situation has been a major frustration with the main factor time delay. Builder Shop has been good so far repairing their errors, I still need to submit a documented repair bill to them for repairing burnt harnesses, as they didn't route / tie strap them same as they received the car before they did their work, and engine computer re-tune with be in that bill as well. Installer Shop so far hasn't given be any reason to think that they won't cover all the expenses to replace the QuarterMaster Clutch Disk Set that they "glazed" during road tests. I had cautioned them early on in the swap that they were "race compound" lining and had to be broken (mild city driving with a lot of shifting for at least 250 miles). Suspect he couldn't resist really putting his foot into it on a road test. With this injection system the rpm's come up super quick, and it would be easy to glaze a set of disks that haven't been broken/seated in. We plan on attempting tuning of engine with the glazed set still in place, then put new disks in after tuning to reduce the risk of cooking another set. So far there hasn't been any finger pointing between the Shops and they are covering the expenses to make the car right.
Final bill to the "Builder" is $500 that includes $250 to repair the melted harnesses and connectors, and $250 to re-tune the engine. Inclusive in the costs is labor to correct a few other things they didn't put back together as professionally the same as they when they had received the car to work on.
Both Shops have been OK to deal with, but they do really take a very long time to get things accomplished, and unfortunately some mistakes were made on both sides along the way. Owner of the "Installer" Shop likes my car so much, that he gets ribbed by his Mechanics that he's keeping my car hostage for his own pleasure!!!
The only additional expense I should have to pay for, is adding two more coolant lines to the cylinder heads, to improve coolant flow through the engine. That boils down to AN fittings, braided hose, drill and tap thermostat housing for 2 additional AN fitting line inputs, and labor to put it all together with professional look. We are fairly confident that this will take care of the high temp issues we ran into after 20 minutes of operation on road. If it doesn't, then I'll consider packaging a larger radiator up front.
I figure I've got about 3 more years to enjoy this car, then I'm selling just about everything I own, and buying a Sailboat to sail the World for retirement/new lifestyle.
Ill make you a deal, I will get the shop to get into gear and finish the car and have it shipped here so I can "take care of it" during the winter. Not as cold here, I will keep air in the tires and gas in the tank then ship it back to you when its your turn. Whaddya say?
-Joe
LOL !!! I bet you would !
Really it doesn't bug me too much, I have my own hoist permantly in their shop, and winter storage. I can drop by the shop any week day and do what I want to it as it's already on the hoist. My three car garage is full with my other cars and motorcycles right now anyway, and I still have to park by Extreme in the driveway. Need to have a garage sale this spring.
Thought I'd post a couple pictures that illustrate what I'm talking about regarding the additional coolant lines.
This photo shows the plugs (circled in white) for access to coolant passages in the rear of the heads. They come plugged this way from Hilborn. Hilborn claimed their use was optional and I most likely won't need to use them on a high performance street engine.
In doing some research, I found that all street cars using this system that I could find on the internet (5 cars), use these passages, and a 4 gang thermostat housing similar to one pictured below.
The only additional expense I should have to pay for, is adding two more coolant lines to the cylinder heads, to improve coolant flow through the engine. That boils down to AN fittings, braided hose, drill and tap thermostat housing for 2 additional AN fitting line inputs, and labor to put it all together with professional look. We are fairly confident that this will take care of the high temp issues
Looking forward to Spring !!!
I know you are on top of it... but for others curious... here is a kit solution that accomplishes what Tom is referring to...
Nothing new at this point, work still needs to be performed on the car, Shop Owner has been taking a lot of time off, and he won't let anyone else work on it. No real rush to get it out of the Shop at this time, still damn cold here in Michigan. Still targeting early spring to get it on the road.
Dave.........still to early for me to decide if Norwalk will be a trip this year, have to see how things take shape with work and everything else.
Quick update on the car, since I've had a few questions in PM. I had a few major problems with the Shop that was working on my car, so I removed the car from that Shop, and took it to the previous Shop I was doing business with. Long story short the engine had to be totally rebuilt along a with fried clutch replaced. Needless to say, I have some unfinished business to do with the shop that had my car over a year, and the damages they caused.
On the bright side of things, I picked the car up last Friday, and put 500 "break-in" miles on engine/metallic clutch over the weekend, going in for early fresh oil/filter change today. The engine is running nothing short of "Fantastic" and really puts a big smile on your face (as well on on-lookers in traffic). Engine operating temperature may or may not be an issue, still have to wait for a few more miles for the engine to "loosen up" a little bit. We did install a thermal control oil cooler near the left quarter side scoop, and modified the wheelhouse liner to have a duct outlet for air flow off fan. The idea to use the cooler was strictly for added measure of cooling if it's needed. Coolant Temperature City traffic in 35 to 50mph range, I'm showing 220 on factory temp gauge, however hand held thermal reader shows 200 to 205 on coolant hoses/fittings/and cylinder heads, express way driving at 70 to 80 temp is below 200 on factory gauge.
The end result on this new power plant, has exceeded my original dreams of how this engine would sound and feel (power is definitely up from where it was at the last Shop). I will post some pictures after I've had a chance to clean up a years worth of shop dust, and complete a few more things on the car.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 06-15-2009).]
I'll get some video a little ways down the road, only 700 miles on engine rebuild, have run it up to 6,500 once, and it sounds fantastic!!! Still running break in oil, and will continue to 1,500 miles, then I'll go a little heavier on both the oil and throttle foot.
I am thinking that you were the car at Barrymore's a few days back. My brother Keith and Dad were walking around there. He says that there was a sick Yellow Fiero with stacks out the back. If you are that guy, Keith says that you were a pretty cool guy. If not, you may still be a cool guy.
BTW, the car looks just outstanding. Nice work on her.
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[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 06-23-2009).]
I am thinking that you were the car at Barrymore's a few days back. My brother Keith and Dad were walking around there. He says that there was a sick Yellow Fiero with stacks out the back. If you are that guy, Keith says that you were a pretty cool guy. If not, you may still be a cool guy.
BTW, the car looks just outstanding. Nice work on her.
Thanks, Yep, I was out Hall Road putting miles on the car and pulled into the Cruise Night at Barrymores for a "look around" at the Hot Rods. My car got quite a bit of attention, and I enjoyed talking to fellow car buffs. Kinda cool to be called a "Cool Guy", when I'm feeling like an "old fart" sometimes!
I know I live halfway across the country, but one day I hope you don't mind me coming up there to see her in person. Our family like sot ski in Wisconsin once in awhile, so I'll have to drive into Michigan and look at it myself.
[This message has been edited by Bradley Jay (edited 06-23-2009).]
My brother did not have a camera with him. I told him though, that if the guy is anyone, he will be posted up here on Pennock's. He did say that you were a bit older. But, cool none the less. We have this three hour time difference thing going on over here. He had called me at about 11:00pm here. Just as excited as can be that he seen a Fiero in that awesome of condition. Keith is not easlily impressed with anything. But, your car must have really stood out. My brother and I are in or abouts our mid to late thirties. Me, I have always been involved with cars since i was a kid. Keith, he still loves cars, but is not all giddy over sweet rides like me. So, it was a huge compliment to you to have him babble on about your ride. One thing that I do miss about the Metro Detroit area is the fantastic cars that folks build and maintain. Anyway, good luck with that incredible car, and remember that we may always be moving on in years, but we can always be cool.
I had too many things going on to attend this year.
My Cousin didn't bring his Dragster or 65 GTO out, as he has too many projects going on. He just finished installing his built 427 small block CA Emissions legal engine in his Corvette, has a 64 GTO strip car in progress that is Alcohol Supercharged that should run in the 6's. If all goes well and the economy improves we may be at Norwalk next year.
LOL, I went over to Kinsler to talk to them before deciding on the Hilborn, the Kinsler setup is very nice but comes at a very steep price as well.
Decklid isn't done yet, probably won't get to it till Springtime. Car is resting through Winter and so is my checkbook, as I've been laid off since end of July (hope things improve in MI after first of year).
Yep, keep starting mine every week to keep the battery alive. Still too much salt dust around to drive though, and it's still down for clutch hydraulic work.
Did you get called back to work? I was laid off for a month over the summer but we're busy now with MY12 work.
[This message has been edited by Freshj (edited 03-07-2010).]
Did you get called back to work? I was laid off for a month over the summer but we're busy now with MY12 work.
GM Directors requested me back on contract through Aerotek, accepted offer, waiting for start date. I left them about 2 years back, went into Defense Engineering (business also dried up), looks like they may have a big new contract starting in a couple months. So I have two avenues I can go in. I'm doing great without an employer though, making a hell of lot more money per month day trading in the Stock Market, so I'm in no hurry to go back to work at this point. Also got the 20 wk extension on unemployment and have full medical at reduced rates on Cobra. It looks like things are just starting to improve with the economy, but I think were in for a long haul.
Yep, it's still too early to consider taking the car out here in Michigan, need a couple weeks of rain to flush all that salt down the sewers.
Looked at weather channel and we may get some later this week. Car looks awesome, seen it around maybe tech center auto show? I think you were playing with an engineer friend of mine a couple of years ago, he had a turbo saab, and was telling me about a yellow fiero that wasted him from a roll. He could'nt believe it, had to tell him it was a small block and he was shocked it would fit in fiero. Hopefully things workout for your employment oppurtunities. Aerotek is hiring for some openings at the proving grounds also. Not sure on job types but with the amount of engineers that they let go and the amount of work we have going on it is not a surprise that they will be hiring.
<---- did you buy Cliff a beer?
With this injection system the rpm's come up super quick, and it would be easy to glaze a set of disks that haven't been broken/seated in. We plan on attempting tuning of engine with the glazed set still in place, then put new disks in after tuning to reduce the risk of cooking another set. So far there hasn't been any finger pointing between the Shops and they are covering the expenses to make the car right.
