I believe its a movie and they are stimulating imaginations!! DAMN did you freak out when they released Never Ending Story also?? My... god... let the kids dream and imagine themselves dont cut their legs out from under them cause you believe its EVIL!
------------------ "Raced That, Wrecked Better" ~In Memory Of Jesse Cesek~ 1980-2000 AIM: Fieromaster 1985 GT ~ Purple, Black and Yellow Interior(Fastback Converted) 1997 Mitsu Eclipse GSX ~ Maroon w/ Hella Balls!(GSX = AWD, Turbo) DOA on 12/10/2000 1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS ~ soon will be turboed
[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 11-19-2001).]
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08:47 PM
2birds Member
Posts: 1685 From: Ottumwa, Iowa USA Registered: Nov 1999
My understanding of religion is that it is what you make of it, and we only answer to the Maker in the end, right or wrong, none of us can judge the other. Is any of us here perfect? Don't think so...
If fantasizing about a little magical fun and games is a sin, I think I can accept that, and any penalties involved. My seven year old knows it (Harry Potter's world) isn't real, so why can't a bunch of adults get it, too? If you don't want to see it, don't. Boycott anything related, if you feel you need to.
But don't tell ME that I can't take MY kids to see it, or that MY kid can't read the books and get credit for a book report about it. I think that God (yes, I consider myself a Christian) gave me a brain and the ability to make my own decisions.
The kids aren't just getting an occassional dose of magic in the media. Open your eyes, they're inundated with it! It's everywhere, all the time, even in their classrooms. The danger is they're being jaded to it. It's always made out to be some cute, fun, prankster teenie-bopper stuff, so when somebody calls it dangerous they will just laugh and not see the truth. You can't go one day in our society without at least some mention of it coming around. Everybody here rants about "good parenting", well, warning kids against believing all the deception about magic being cute & fun - there's good parenting! My kids are going to get enough bombardment of magic without me paying money and taking them to a movie about it. But do what you want with yourself & your kids, I'm not saying you can't. I'm just trying to point out that some of you don't realize how much you're being hit with it all day, every day.
Nice point, Cheever. My part in the "good parenting" strategy is to make sure my kids understand the difference between fact and fiction. Easy to do if you take part in the fun and games yourself.
I also thought Monsters Inc. was good, too. Monsters in the closet sounds like fantasy to me. Maybe that should be banned also.
Yeah Cheever, Know what ya mean. I was bombarded with magic all the time when I was a kid and as a parent. I'm traumatized. "hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat." "Again? that trick never works" "Roar!!! "Maybe I should get another hat"
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10:38 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12398 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
Haha! I'm wondering if you remembered that my wife is a teacher. I better plead our beloved 5th amendment on that! You're the Forum member I promised in the chatroom a long time ago (the evolution thread?) that I would henceforth stay out of religion debates. Later I stopped opening the O/T section altogether because some people didn't want me offending them while at the same time it was okay for them to offend me. The really offensive stuff nearly stopped, so I started participating in O/T again. Please notice that my post above does not proclaim my personal religious beliefs, and I hope it's not taken as an offense to the beliefs of others.
I know you were "j/k", I just wanted to be sure all here know I can still be their friend in spite of these non-Fiero differences. Me & DaRkLorD have had many enjoyable discussions, and I'm sure many more to come. Just don't dis the Iron Duke!
I never said you couldn't take your stinking kids to go see it, only that I wasn't taking mine, and explained why.
Quit trying to make me a stinking tyrant, I could care LESS what you do. Like you, I only stated my position, but I guess Christians can't do that here...you wanna talk about oppression...You're the one who nneds to lighten up.
I'm outta here.
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11:24 PM
Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12398 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
Buh bye. Don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out.
As for learning about Christianity - I was raised Southern Baptist, and baptised when I was 15. I've been raised and taught the beliefs of Christianity. I've read and studied the Bible, and followed it's teachings for most of my life. Today, I'm Wiccan. In learning it's teachings I made the educated and informed decision to change my religion. This was not without some serious and long term soul searching. I will not defend my choices other than to say it's my religious freedom.
Congratulations on being a proud Christian. When you've studied both religions, as I have, then I may take your opinions a bit more seriously. But for now, your only argument as to why Wicca (or any other religion, for that matter) is wrong is because it isn't your religion. That is the definition of ignorance and intolerance.
Me and my kids will not have a part of this? Did you let them have a say in this? (Of course if you ask them, they will agree with you now). Kind of reminds me of the other side of the world, during the 40's..
Cheever: Magic isn't fun and cute? I don't want to burst the bubble man, but magic doesn't exist. I guess it depends on your definition of magic. If I were to mix iron and sulphuric acid together and then light the gas, it would have been magic back then. Now the world has learned that there is no such thing, and everything has logical explanantions. Kind of like how people were (and some still are), believing that mankind was founded by fictional characters. I'm sure in due time, there will be some proof of what happened. For now though, I just have to sit tight.
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12:10 AM
Jaygee79 Member
Posts: 4259 From: Dartmouth, MA Registered: Mar 2000
Originally posted by Formula88: But for now, your only argument as to why Wicca (or any other religion, for that matter) is wrong is because it isn't your religion. That is the definition of ignorance and intolerance.
No, it is because Christians believe in what God says. And God SAID that we can only be saved through Him. It's not an I'm right and you're wrong argument. It's part of our belief system. It goes along with our religion. So we are ignorant and intolerant for practicing our religion? OK I get it now.
[This message has been edited by Jaygee79 (edited 11-20-2001).]
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12:11 AM
Jaygee79 Member
Posts: 4259 From: Dartmouth, MA Registered: Mar 2000
Originally posted by JohnnyK: Me and my kids will not have a part of this? Did you let them have a say in this?
he's the parent, not them. if you don't want your kids to watch 'Natural Born Killers', you don't have the right to tell them they can't see it? yeah, OK.
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12:13 AM
Joe Torma Member
Posts: 3485 From: Hillsborough, NJ USA Registered: Jul 2001
Originally posted by DaRkLoRD: Hey Cheever, let me guess.. you're worried about kids bringing spellbooks and magic wands to school instead of guns, and turning teachers into frogs?
No... She turned me into a newt, sire! A newt? I got better?!
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12:23 AM
Galen No longer registered
Report this Post11-20-2001 12:33 AM
Galen
posts Member since
We all believe in Christianity(not me, but we pertaining to all that do) and god becuz of the bible? we believe in the ideals of "God" becuz of this book written by man, supposidly inspired by "God". okie. So what if 'Satanist' had a book that said the bible and "God" was the badguys? which book would be right? riddle me this, who are we to say who is right and who is wrong? perhaps satan, lucifer is the good guy and this so called "God" guy is the bad guy con artist? If man was created in his image, he can't be too good cuz look at how man is....
and yes I write this with a snake wrapped around my neck..
Too many things to reply to. To Darklord and the rest of you wiccans or friends of wiccans. I say thank you for showing your support. To Triad. Bye. Better be thumping extra hard after all this, huh? I dont have a problem with any one religon. But dont try ramming what you believe down someone else's throat. If you have found something that works for you. Then by all means pursure it. But let everyone else do the same. And dont tell someone something about what they believe if you dont know the story. Id sell my soul to the devil if I thought it would help. Lol @ self.
Originally posted by TRiAD: And according to your belief they didn't? That's all any of us are representing here...our beliefs.
Or is Wicca suddenly immune to quesiton and become the undeniable truth of the universe?
Sorry. Even if a Wiccan researches their religion outside of Biblical teachings, their beliefs do not pre-date the Jewish/Christian nation.
jews calendar goes back to 57xx something total years to "adam and eve" or about 3700 bce DNA dates another eve to 125,000 bce for our commom mother in fact, by mitocondrial DNA 's rate of change FACT NOT BS. stoneage mother goddes stone carved figuers have been dated over 35,000 years ago wiccia is modern mother goddess worship and beats jews by 10 times in old aged rootes
NO WICCIA IS NOT IMMUNE JUST OLDER BY 10 TIMES.IS STILL A FAIRY TALE JUST A OLD ONE
Originally posted by Cheever3000: The kids aren't just getting an occassional dose of magic in the media. Open your eyes, they're inundated with it! It's everywhere, all the time, even in their classrooms. The danger is they're being jaded to it. It's always made out to be some cute, fun, prankster teenie-bopper stuff, so when somebody calls it dangerous they will just laugh and not see the truth. You can't go one day in our society without at least some mention of it coming around. Everybody here rants about "good parenting", well, warning kids against believing all the deception about magic being cute & fun - there's good parenting! My kids are going to get enough bombardment of magic without me paying money and taking them to a movie about it. But do what you want with yourself & your kids, I'm not saying you can't. I'm just trying to point out that some of you don't realize how much you're being hit with it all day, every day.
UNLIKE HOW CHRISTIANS BOMBBARD US ON TV AND THRU THEIR GOVERMENT-CHURCH LINK????? I NEVER SAW CLINTON AT A WICCIA EVENT BUT DID SEE BUSH SPEAK AT CHURCH ON TV
YOU DON'T WANT FARE OR BALANCED BUT ONLY ALL YOUR WAY
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
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02:57 AM
JSocha Member
Posts: 3522 From: Felton, MN, USA Registered: Apr 2001
I find it very curious that we treat science and religion differently.
Science attempts to determine the nature of the universe, the interaction of matter, energy, and life.
But it deliberately ignores God. We study the life forms that the lower end of the scale, single cell things, and we establish endangered species and place there importance above human life and prosperity. But science completely ignores God - pretends there is no God.
Why is this weird?! Because if there is a God, or if there are Gods, then that is the single most important aspect of our relationship to the universe.
ISNT IT?!
and in the end, there can only be one correct 'religion' - just as there can only be one correct set of 'laws of physics'
Yes?
So someone explain to me - why is there no humaity-wide attempt to understand God - to understand His nature - to understand our relationship with Him - or to establish once and for all that God doesnt exist at all, and that we are 'on our own'?
Doesnt this seem like its THE most important thing right now? Esp with all the killing and impossible situations around the world that are direct results of conflicts of religious beliefs?
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09:54 AM
btoth Member
Posts: 1284 From: Berea, Ohio Registered: Jun 2000
My friend's government class yesterday got into an argument on whether Harry Potter should be banned (books and all). Seems some extremist groups would have it that way if they could. Just silly.
Triad - didn't mean to get involved in the little "war". It just seemed that you where using that as your proof. I have have no idea which is older. There could just be less written record of Wiccan practices then other religions. But, whatever.
So was the movie any good at all??? It seems like no matter how good it really was, it would still be disapointing because of all the hype. I'm hoping Lord of the Rings doesn't end up that way. (Like StarWars Episode I.)
The thing I dont understand about Wica, is the concept of worshipping the earth, as if the planet itself is a goddess.
Isnt that like worshiping a VanGough painting, instead of honoring Vincet himself?!
I think the situation we have now is that, which religion you choose to follow, or if you choose to deny the existance of God completely, that is a reflection of the nature of your own personality and character.
If you follow a belief system that says it can give you powers and supernatural gifts, like Wica, or if you are Jewish or Muslim, in which you are expected to earn your way into good favor through good works and deeds
or if you practice a eastern religion and believe if you striver hard enough you will evolve and ascend to a more god-like state
what you chose is a reflection of what is in your heart - or at least it should be, otherwise you are doing something you dont believe in and you will be miserable.
I think that is one reason many people shun Wica - not because it is evil or anti christain, but because, to follow it, you have to be something of a megalomaniac - thinking somehow you are more gifted, deserving, important, powerful, intune... than most other people.
Of all the 'witches' I have seen on documentaries and the ones I have met in person, that is one quality that always comes through - they sure do seem to be 'full of themselves' and have an over inflated sense of self importance.
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10:33 AM
JSocha Member
Posts: 3522 From: Felton, MN, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Ken...just come to good ol' Rugby, ND for a day or two. . You'll be glad you didn't!
Also, I finally got the Jehova Witness to stop knocking on our door.
The "PRIVATE DRIVE" sign never worked. The "NO SOLICITATION" sign on the door didn't work (and yet they have one hanging in their Kingdom Hall and want everyone to follow what it says). The "BEWARE OF DOG" sign never worked...dogs just love people to be scary. Asking them politely to not bother us or that we are not interested never seemed to work. "TRESSPASSERS WILL BE SHOT" sign did not work.
Cocking and firing a "loaded" Shotgun in the air, reloading and giving them 30 seconds to vacate the premises...Now that worked miracles. We haven't seen them in months! Or maybe the last sign about Tresspassers will be shot finally registered. What do you think?!
I'm ROFLMAO Ken! Those would be good. Around here, don't know if they would work though.
But, I think after that day they all needed to change their underwear as well as panties. And I have never seen people so motivated in all my life to leave so quickly.
I guess they were not ready to meet their maker. I just wonder why since they keep preaching about God and when I die...
Anywhoooo....
When the police officer came to our door afterwards (nothing he could really do as we are outside Rugby's city limits, on Rural property and we do have a sign up as a warning and to top it off we know him real well and he knows me and that I don't pose a threat), he asked what happened, I told him and he started laughing.
Said it was to bad he couldn't do that in town, otherwise he would as he is tired of them knocking on his door as well, especially after he has done a graveyard shift, just got to bed and is trying to get some sleep.
He then asked me to see the gun, he inspected it, asked if I had any intensions on shooting them, told him no, just wanted to scare them, handed the gun back to me and he told me not to do it again and to be careful if I do and left.
What could he really do? They were tresspassing and their was a warning sign indicating the fact of what could happen for doing such. Also, they had been told many times before by us to stay off of our property and that we were not interested.
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11:59 AM
Jaygee79 Member
Posts: 4259 From: Dartmouth, MA Registered: Mar 2000
Originally posted by Jaygee79: No, it is because Christians believe in what God says. And God SAID that we can only be saved through Him. It's not an I'm right and you're wrong argument. It's part of our belief system. It goes along with our religion. So we are ignorant and intolerant for practicing our religion? OK I get it now.
[This message has been edited by Jaygee79 (edited 11-20-2001).]
You're missing my point. You don't know about my religion. You are judging my religion based on your own religious beliefs. How would you feel if I told you that Gaia said hers was the only true religion and the only way to be saved is to worship her? That means you're not saved, even though you believe in your religion, becasue MY religion said so.
I'm really not trying to bash your beliefs. You have your beliefs, and that's great. I also have mine. If I were to convince you to become Pagan, and Christianity was the answer, that would be horrible. Likewise, if you were to convince me to be Christian, and Paganism was the answer, you would have just dammed me.
You cannot evaluate one belief system from within another. You have to be able to look at them both from the outside. If I have a religious doctrine that says Christianity is a hoax, and I believe it as fervently as you believe in Christianity, whose right? One of us is wrong, but who? You can't prove a "belief". If you could, it becomes fact. You don't believe that water is wet, you can prove it, so it's a known fact. Faith is the cornerstone of religion, because you must believe in something that you cannot prove. You just have to believe.
You don't have to agree with my religion. I'm not arguing with your religious beliefs. I'm arguing that you're using flawed logic in your statements. Believe what you want, but you cannot use a document (the Bible) that requires you to "believe" it as proof of anything. If you could prove everything in the Bible, that would be different. But then it wouldn't be religion, it would be science and simple fact.
Anyway, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. If not, I'll stop wasting your time.
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02:43 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: The thing I dont understand about Wica, is the concept of worshipping the earth, as if the planet itself is a goddess.
Isnt that like worshiping a VanGough painting, instead of honoring Vincet himself?!
That's a very good question! Liken it to some Native American religions. It's not so much that you worship the earth as a goddess, but that there is divinity in all things. You, me, the plants, the trees...all are things created by divinity. The Moon is not the Goddess, but a symbol of the Goddess.
The thing I never understood about Catholics was praying to the Virgin Mary, or offering confession to Priests. If you ask forgiveness or offer prayer, shouldn't it be to God Himself, and not His followers?
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02:56 PM
Return of Fiero Member
Posts: 197 From: Nashua,NH,USA Registered: Oct 2001
ok, lets see if i can hit this one up quick (for once) harry potter isnt that a bong that hasnt been cleaned? never mind... not my style, honestly, just thought it was funny. ok, kids keep buggin me to see it, i keep vomiting, is it conected? probably. harry satanic? no, it a damn fictional movie, and until one of my kids flys out the window on the broom, in not going to worry about how "impretionable" my kids are. enough said Myke
Originally posted by Formula88: You're missing my point. You don't know about my religion. You are judging my religion based on your own religious beliefs. How would you feel if I told you that Gaia said hers was the only true religion and the only way to be saved is to worship her? That means you're not saved, even though you believe in your religion, becasue MY religion said so.
I'm really not trying to bash your beliefs. You have your beliefs, and that's great. I also have mine. If I were to convince you to become Pagan, and Christianity was the answer, that would be horrible. Likewise, if you were to convince me to be Christian, and Paganism was the answer, you would have just dammed me.
You cannot evaluate one belief system from within another. You have to be able to look at them both from the outside. If I have a religious doctrine that says Christianity is a hoax, and I believe it as fervently as you believe in Christianity, whose right? One of us is wrong, but who? You can't prove a "belief". If you could, it becomes fact. You don't believe that water is wet, you can prove it, so it's a known fact. Faith is the cornerstone of religion, because you must believe in something that you cannot prove. You just have to believe.
You don't have to agree with my religion. I'm not arguing with your religious beliefs. I'm arguing that you're using flawed logic in your statements. Believe what you want, but you cannot use a document (the Bible) that requires you to "believe" it as proof of anything. If you could prove everything in the Bible, that would be different. But then it wouldn't be religion, it would be science and simple fact.
Anyway, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. If not, I'll stop wasting your time.
i'm not trying to use the bible to prove anything. just simply stating that we get our beliefs from what it says. you're right, if it were 'proof' it wouldn't be a religion. belief and fact are two entirely different things. i can't prove what i believe and i don't try, i just believe it. i do understand what you're saying, but it's impossible to aviod flawed arguments when there is no solid proof to back up anything.
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05:38 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
"Raced That, Wrecked Better" 
<sigh> This is yet another reason why I am not religious.
Or maybe the last sign about Tresspassers will be shot finally registered. 
What do you think?!
