By the way...according to John AV1...he is living off the sale of his family business...and then sits all day trolling through umpteen different 'News' sources, to regurgitate them here Talk about having too much money and free time provides the Devil's work for idle hands John, I like you...but think you are wasting your time , and doing the reverse of what you set out to do. Alienating, instead of gathering support .
Then how do you get a point across in a debate? I post articles to support my position and/or offer proof. Otherwise, it is nothing but opinion.
Then how do you get a point across in a debate? I post articles to support my position and/or offer proof. Otherwise, it is nothing but opinion.
I usually see very little "proof" offered during a political debate here. Actually, I see very little "debate". It's all just chest-thumping and kicking sand. And it's boring.
Originally posted by Patrick: I usually see very little "proof" offered during a political debate here. Actually, I see very little "debate". It's all just chest-thumping and kicking sand. And it's boring.
What, to you, constitutes proof?
quote
Did I mention it's boring?
Then why are you reading it?
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 08-08-2012).]
Nothing quoted from an extremist's blog, that's for sure.
quote
Originally posted by fierobear:
Then why are you reading it?
Because it turns up in almost every freakin' thread here! And you know it!
I don't bother reading the threads (such as anything started by Avengador) that are intended from the get-go to be political in nature. I'd rather go watch paint dry.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-08-2012).]
Because it turns up in almost every freakin' thread here! And you know it!
I don't bother reading the threads (such as anything started by Avengador) that are intended from the get-go to be political in nature. I'd rather go watch paint dry.
Threads evolve and wander. It has been that way since Al Gore invented the internet (snicker). You have two choices:
Sure, and then there are enjoyable threads like the Mars one where out of the blue in the 39th post, you feel a need to put your stamp of disapproval on Obama.
If ANY government spending stimulates and does good, it's space exploration. All we got from Obama's stimulus was his paying back unions and cronies.
You can be a nice enough guy when you're talking about something other than the US government. I've had fun kidding around with you about the Sharks and the Canucks, but by gawd you're a pain in the ass when it comes to you wanting to "share" your views on politics.
Nick.. I have a 3 step plan for your happiness on Pennock's Fiero Forum..
1) Click "off" politics and then sign off so it saves it that way. 2)Ignore posts by those you think to be "trolls" for as we know, if you feed them they keep coming back hungry.. just like stray cats or ungrateful teenagers. 3) Post about things that are a joy to you, and leave the rest at the curb. Seriously, we expose ourselves to their attacks by meeting them in the circle they choose. Do you really think you will change anyone's mind with your opinion on politics, or they change yours? No? Then why bother?
Now, every once in a while, you may see your topic get re-routed to a nearby "bridge" but that does not mean you have to bring a dish with a lid..take the high road and don't give those smug pricks the satisfaction. You know who they are, and its likely I believe most of them aren't worth a **** , either. Its a pleasure to be here, because of people I have met like you. Don't let the shallow end ruin all your fun while swimming around the pool.
Originally posted by Patrick: Sure, and then there are enjoyable threads like the Mars one where out of the blue in the 39th post, you feel a need to put your stamp of disapproval on Obama.
I wasn't the first to introduce politics, Formula88 did with the stimulus numbers. I wouldn't have said anything about it otherwise. I found the comparison very interesting.
quote
You can be a nice enough guy when you're talking about something other than the US government. I've had fun kidding around with you about the Sharks and the Canucks, but by gawd you're a pain in the ass when it comes to you wanting to "share" your views on politics.
I really don't give a crap if people think I'm a pain in the ass on politics. My country is in danger of collapse. I take that very f***ing serious. If people don't wake the hell up, they're going to wake up some morning and their country will be collapsed.
I wasn't the first to introduce politics, Formula88 did with the stimulus numbers. I wouldn't have said anything about it otherwise. I found the comparison very interesting.
Read what Formula88 said about that. He made it clear he wasn't talking politics at all. You took it that direction.
quote
Originally posted by fierobear:
I really don't give a crap if people think I'm a pain in the ass on politics. My country is in danger of collapse. I take that very f***ing serious. If people don't wake the hell up, they're going to wake up some morning and their country will be collapsed.
News flash for Fierobear - Nothing you say in an international automotive forum on the internet is going to make a damn bit of difference regarding the destiny of your country. You and everyone else here who chooses to engage in this activity are just blowing smoke.
Originally posted by Patrick: Read what Formula88 said about that. He made it clear he wasn't talking politics at all. You took it that direction.
IT DOESN'T MATTER. It was relevant, and it was *already* political.
quote
News flash for Fierobear - Nothing you say in an international automotive forum on the internet is going to make a damn bit of difference regarding the destiny of your country. You and everyone else here who chooses to engage in this activity are just blowing smoke.
News flash for Patrick...I'm taking the message of concern to multiple arenas. You make a false assumption that this is the ONLY place I'm taking action.
Nick.. I have a 3 step plan for your happiness on Pennock's Fiero Forum..
1) Click "off" politics and then sign off so it saves it that way. 2)Ignore posts by those you think to be "trolls" for as we know, if you feed them they keep coming back hungry.. just like stray cats or ungrateful teenagers. 3) Post about things that are a joy to you, and leave the rest at the curb. Seriously, we expose ourselves to their attacks by meeting them in the circle they choose. Do you really think you will change anyone's mind with your opinion on politics, or they change yours? No? Then why bother?
Now, every once in a while, you may see your topic get re-routed to a nearby "bridge" but that does not mean you have to bring a dish with a lid..take the high road and don't give those smug pricks the satisfaction. You know who they are, and its likely I believe most of them aren't worth a **** , either. Its a pleasure to be here, because of people I have met like you. Don't let the shallow end ruin all your fun while swimming around the pool.
John. You are very outspoken about your Political views. But you DON'T troll, as far as I have seen, and that is fine,IMHO. You ask how is one meant to substantiate a political statement, other than linking to somebody else's words? Well, I will SHARE with you what I think. An opinion will stand, or fall, upon its own merit, when considered by somebody else: somebody else who is equally intelligent, equally 'Worldly-wise', and having experienced life at a level somewhat higher than chugging along on the 'safe and easy' level . Seriously, I consider ANYBODY'S opinion here, and judge it on its merits AS I SEE THEM. After all, that is what we ALL do, in the end. Posting links to other peoples' words again in MY honest opinion, simply doesn't enhance YOUR opinion in my eyes; it just demonstrates that there are other people out there who think like yourself...and equally other people out there who think as I do. And, to be honest...we ALL know what is coming when we see the link Hey, I know it is mentally stimulating to get a little 'overheated' at times, no matter what the subject . But surely you demonstrate that your belief in how you think and work, is strong enough without copying and pasting other words to 'back you up'? Why show that, inside, your beliefs are not strong enough to stand on their own merit? Because it seems to ME that 'copy and pastes' are just that; not corroboration, just another cumbersome bag of unneccessary luggage on a 'mental' journey, if you like. They don't enhance your view or opinion, and the more those links appear...the less I am interested on the poster's OWN opinion, which is sad.
Change tack a little, but illustrates how my mind works E.Furgal. Been here since March, and already has an enormous red bar. Why? Hey, I gave him a green, because his honesty was displayed from day 1. I 'demoted' that rating for a day or so, and considered him more. I suddenly saw so much integrity in his beliefs, whether I agreed with them or not; No copy and pastes to 'back him up', just plain, (very ) raw words. I admire that MORE in a person than all the rhetoric and 'hrvested to back up opinion' links anybody could ever find. I also think that he mainly posts from a cellphone, and doesn't 'proof-read' his posts before hitting 'submit'. I don't buy into the 'dyslexia' thing very much at all I think most instances are laziness...not really caring if the spelling or grammar etc are not correct: he still manages to get his point across. I hope he doesn't get banished, AFAIAC..bit rough and dready, raw around the edges...but that CAN be refreshing too . Just wish he would share his first name
Anyway, I am going to enjoy my morning, and go to the local swimming pool with my wife, have a relaxing swim, get a bit of sun...and I hope everybody else will be as fulfilled as I will be for the rest of the day
I'm gonna go try out my new Hypo Hatchets on some hated trees. I bought 6 of them in North Texas for $100 total over the weekend. (they sell new for nearly $400 ea)
Bought a 275 gal tank yesterday for less than $100, and I'm going to start building a bigger herbicide spray unit with it. (Where Don goes, nothin grows. )
Ooops--sorry for hijacking your thread Nick--feel free to have a hissy fit at your own convenience.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-08-2012).]
I'm gonna go try out my new Hypo Hatchets on some hated trees. I bought 6 of them in North Texas for $100 total over the weekend. (they sell new for nearly $400 ea)
Bought a 275 gal tank yesterday for less than $100, and I'm going to start building a bigger herbicide spray unit with it. (Where Don goes, nothin grows. )
Ooops--sorry for hijacking your thread Nick--feel free to have a hissy fit at your own convenience.
So you are the one who is responsible for global warming (lol)
I'm gonna go try out my new Hypo Hatchets on some hated trees. I bought 6 of them in North Texas for $100 total over the weekend. (they sell new for nearly $400 ea)
Bought a 275 gal tank yesterday for less than $100, and I'm going to start building a bigger herbicide spray unit with it. (Where Don goes, nothin grows. )
Ooops--sorry for hijacking your thread Nick--feel free to have a hissy fit at your own convenience.
I WOULD...but Ellie has been in it for the last hour and a half ...guess I'll have to do a maryjane...and water the garden
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 08-08-2012).]
Nick.. I have a 3 step plan for your happiness on Pennock's Fiero Forum..
1) Click "off" politics and then sign off so it saves it that way. 2)Ignore posts by those you think to be "trolls" for as we know, if you feed them they keep coming back hungry.. just like stray cats or ungrateful teenagers. 3) Post about things that are a joy to you, and leave the rest at the curb. Seriously, we expose ourselves to their attacks by meeting them in the circle they choose. Do you really think you will change anyone's mind with your opinion on politics, or they change yours? No? Then why bother?
Now, every once in a while, you may see your topic get re-routed to a nearby "bridge" but that does not mean you have to bring a dish with a lid..take the high road and don't give those smug pricks the satisfaction. You know who they are, and its likely I believe most of them aren't worth a **** , either. Its a pleasure to be here, because of people I have met like you. Don't let the shallow end ruin all your fun while swimming around the pool.
Soooooo awesome when this post actually garnered me a neg rating. Trolls indeed... I guess if the shoe fits, neg the guy who points it out. That all you got suckas? *snicker*
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 08-08-2012).]
John. You are very outspoken about your Political views. But you DON'T troll, as far as I have seen, and that is fine,IMHO.
Agreed. A Troll is a person who adds no value, detracts from the discussion, and makes personal attacks. Attacking one's Ideas is fine, being PASSIONATE about your position is fine, and if you add value to the discussion (regardless of your personal style) you're not a Troll.
The easiest way to spot a troll is to ask,
1) Have they ever added value to this FIERO....forum?
2) Do they attack what you say instead of who you are?
3) Do they enhance the conversation with new ideas, links, points of view, or observations (regardless of whether you agree with them or appreicate the manner of delivery)?
I myself, have a direct and abrupt style (life is short and I don't have time or patience for BS). But I can proudly answer yes to every standard. I can think of a couple of douche bags right now (who've posted in this thread) who can't answer any of these questions in the affirmative.
IT DOESN'T MATTER. It was relevant, and it was *already* political.
It DOES matter. You interpreted it as political. By the original poster's own admission, it wasn't.
quote
Originally posted by fierobear:
News flash for Patrick...I'm taking the message of concern to multiple arenas. You make a false assumption that this is the ONLY place I'm taking action.
You are the only one making a "false assumption" here. I made no comment whatsoever regarding what you might be doing elsewhere to promote your political beliefs. My only concern is that you and your cohorts are poisoning this forum with your hatred for anyone who doesn't walk lockstep with you and your ideology.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-08-2012).]
I don't bother reading the threads (such as anything started by Avengador) that are intended from the get-go to be political in nature. I'd rather go watch paint dry.
Granted, most of what I post IS political, and it IS marked that way, but I also rarely/occasionally post other stuff that doesn't have anything to do with politics.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 08-08-2012).]
Sure, and then there are enjoyable threads like the Mars one where out of the blue in the 39th post, you feel a need to put your stamp of disapproval on Obama.
quote
Originally posted by fierobear:
I wasn't the first to introduce politics, Formula88 did with the stimulus numbers. I wouldn't have said anything about it otherwise. I found the comparison very interesting.
How about this thread? Same tactic. Good natured thread totally unrelated to politics, until fierobear chooses to pollute it with a political wisecrack. ... as usual. Really classy!
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-08-2012).]
How about this thread? Same tactic. Good natured thread totally unrelated to politics, until fierobear chooses to pollute it with a political wisecrack. ... as usual.
I've got to wonder... Does Fierobear (or any of the other usual suspects) act like this while away from the forum? I mean seriously, if Fierobear was my neighbor and I went over to help him fix his car or put up a fence or whatever, would the conversation continually be re-directed to politics by him? Geez that would get tiresome fast, much like it does here!
To be fair (and I've mentioned this to him before), Fierobear is an okay guy on the rare occasion when we can talk about something/anything other than politics at PFF. But man oh man, 98% of the time it's a struggle to refrain from screaming when he and his 'bamabashin' buddies post here.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-09-2012).]
I've got to wonder... Does Fierobear (or any of the other usual suspects) act like this while away from the forum? I mean seriously, if Fierobear was my neighbor and I went over to help him fix his car or put up a fence or whatever, would the conversation continually be re-directed to politics by him? Geez that would get timesome fast, much like it does here!
To be fair (and I've mentioned this to him before), Fierobear is an okay guy on the rare occasion when we can talk about something/anything other than politics at PFF. But man oh man, 98% of the time it's a struggle to refrain from screaming when he and his 'bamabashin' buddies post here.
I've had conversations with John in real life, and never heard any discussion of politics, nor calling people "idiots" or other perjoratives. They were just conversations about cars, and if he thought I was some contemptible troll he never mentioned it. The safety of distance provides a lot of people with a sense of unaccountability. That isn't always a positive thing.
Hmmm, gee, a generalization being called a "Personal attack"...despite not a single person's name being mentioned.
Sounds to me like a case of an egocentric narcissist who thinks everything is about them
Oh, and that was not a "personal attack" either, just a diagnosis
I guess more did need to be said about that. Who said that you were referring to me? I'm surely not the only person who has disagreed with you. At least you haven't accused me of intercourse with my uncle. There are thousands of examples in the forum and archives of your very personal attacks on anyone who you feel worthy. You are the thesis of troll. You are the archetype of troll. I could spend all month posting examples of your abuse on others, but it would be like trying to convince others that ice cream is delicious. There really isn't anyone who disagrees.
Agreed. A Troll is a person who adds no value, detracts from the discussion, and makes personal attacks. Attacking one's Ideas is fine, being PASSIONATE about your position is fine, and if you add value to the discussion (regardless of your personal style) you're not a Troll.
The easiest way to spot a troll is to ask,
1) Have they ever added value to this FIERO....forum? [italics are mine. NEPTUNE]
2) Do they attack what you say instead of who you are?
3) Do they enhance the conversation with new ideas, links, points of view, or observations (regardless of whether you agree with them or appreicate the manner of delivery)?
I myself, have a direct and abrupt style (life is short and I don't have time or patience for BS). But I can proudly answer yes to every standard. I can think of a couple of douche bags right now (who've posted in this thread) who can't answer any of these questions in the affirmative.
I'll give you number 1. On two and three, you fail miserably. This was posted by Toddster earlier today in suppot of Avengadors comment wherin he accused me of swallowing the Presidents semen:
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
you got a little something ....there....on your chin
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:
You swallow Obama's lies hook, line, sinker, and semen.
Way to stay real classy, guys. (sarcasm) ------------------ Drive safely!
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 08-09-2012).]
Talk about having too much money and free time provides the Devil's work for idle hands 
And you know it!
