why are you guys so crazy about ricer kills? if its fart cans and decals on a civic that runs 16's what is the big deal about that? Is that even a big accomplishment? I would rather hear of some domestic kills. like the corvette, camaro, trans am, mustang owners that so arrogant and cocky. god, especially those ugly new GTO's. after all imports are underdogs just as fieros are. matter of fact i think im gonna make another thread on nothing but domestic kills. had a 91 non-turbo MR2, long considering a 3SGTE swap until i looked at auto cross times. pretty discouraging that that motor put out so much turbo lag that the naturally aspirated 5SFE base model majority of the time did better than the turbo model on tracks. I'm sure that's not the story for all imports that boost, but having a turbo as a mains source of power can be a great strength and a great weakness too
It's about making sure that the driver knows for sure that he is a loser (and probably sucks as a human being).
why are you guys so crazy about ricer kills? if its fart cans and decals on a civic that runs 16's what is the big deal about that? Is that even a big accomplishment? I would rather hear of some domestic kills. like the corvette, camaro, trans am, mustang owners that so arrogant and cocky. god, especially those ugly new GTO's. after all imports are underdogs just as fieros are. matter of fact i think im gonna make another thread on nothing but domestic kills. had a 91 non-turbo MR2, long considering a 3SGTE swap until i looked at auto cross times. pretty discouraging that that motor put out so much turbo lag that the naturally aspirated 5SFE base model majority of the time did better than the turbo model on tracks. I'm sure that's not the story for all imports that boost, but having a turbo as a mains source of power can be a great strength and a great weakness too
Well I'm not crazy for anything really. I just get sick and tired of people promoting japanese cars (like everything else at America's throat these days) like they are going out of style...and they are half of what is on the road. So they like to hyper tune screaming econoboxes in Japan. GREAT! I'm not Japanese. I'm American. I like domestic cars. They may be a little too "behind the times" and "anglophile" for import lovers...that's fine...go support someone else's family overseas....it is your right. You have my respect...after all it takes a real man/woman to stand up for America and not only buy and promote Japan and every other nation that wants to see us off the face of the earth......but flame others who might have a differing opinion.
well im gonna throw 10g's into my fiero and take most anything on the road. why? cus i wanna.
baggin on the fiero? why dont you go to a non fiero forum... theres an idea!
Awsome, should be a nice car. Nobody is telling you what to do with your money, if everyone did the same car it would suck. And i'm not baggin on the fiero, I do want one some day but I just dont have the time, money or room to buy another car just so I can take it apart again to make it the way it should have been from the factory. I saw a v8 fiero in dubuque once and he just blipped the throttle and it barked the tires with no hesitation and it was a very clean car. I was impressed and it is one of the reasons I want one, a nice light 2 seater RWD car to throw around.
quote
Originally posted by Nebiros88: let me spell it out for you Rice = Appearance before Performance... these only apply to those cars, imported or not... that invest hundreds/thousands on non function scoops, 5" exhaust tips without a full exhaust tune, 1' high alum. spoiler that hinders FWD cars more then help, stickers of every brand of bullshit so that you look like a sponsored "ricer".
Agreed, the ricer isn't the car, its the person. It could be a domestic or import, it all depends on which car daddy bought for him.
quote
Originally posted by leviathan muledy: why are you guys so crazy about ricer kills? if its fart cans and decals on a civic that runs 16's what is the big deal about that? Is that even a big accomplishment? I would rather hear of some domestic kills. like the corvette, camaro, trans am, mustang owners that so arrogant and cocky. god, especially those ugly new GTO's. after all imports are underdogs just as fieros are. matter of fact i think im gonna make another thread on nothing but domestic kills. had a 91 non-turbo MR2, long considering a 3SGTE swap until i looked at auto cross times. pretty discouraging that that motor put out so much turbo lag that the naturally aspirated 5SFE base model majority of the time did better than the turbo model on tracks. I'm sure that's not the story for all imports that boost, but having a turbo as a mains source of power can be a great strength and a great weakness too
Also agreed, if you have enough power to go pick on cars that are running sub 14's at the very least then you shouldn't even be wasting your gas money on them (that stuff is expensive lol)
And yes, turbo cars are not the best for auto-X, espeically if your running a larger turbo on a smaller displacement engine. I guess it all depends on your goals for the car, I know my car is a fat pig so i'm not going to try to make it do something like that because it would cost me 4 times as much to make it handle as good as a lighter more well balanced car would just because mine is so heavy. I will spend more money on making it handle good enough to keep my on the road and making it have more power since it is a better investment...
quote
Originally posted by Key Of David: Did anyone see a timeslip, road test, or performance comparison to the Fiero in that link? I didn't. Besides, you should have used this (probably one of very, very few japanese) import in your arguments to start with, not brand new technology against something built 20 years ago as an economy car so it could make it into production. The Fiero was just getting started and on its feet when GM (Chevrolet) had the whole thing stopped. You can't possibly be serious to compare stock for stock this car with some turbo tuner car that had no limits on what power it could produce, even though I'm sure the V6 Fiero would STILL hold its own.
I provided a 4 cly car from pre 89 that had more power than a fiero, that is what i thought I was looking for? Would you prefer I use a late 80's dodge shadow turbo? Thier an economy car with about 150hp... You can make all the exceptions you want about the car just getting started and other cars having a running jump but you said no 4cly of that era had that much power and there were cars that had more power, gm just didnt have them... YET...
quote
Originally posted by Key Of David: Well I'm not crazy for anything really. I just get sick and tired of people promoting japanese cars (like everything else at America's throat these days) like they are going out of style...and they are half of what is on the road. So they like to hyper tune screaming econoboxes in Japan. GREAT! I'm not Japanese. I'm American. I like domestic cars. They may be a little too "behind the times" and "anglophile" for import lovers...that's fine...go support someone else's family overseas....it is your right. You have my respect...after all it takes a real man/woman to stand up for America and not only buy and promote Japan and every other nation that wants to see us off the face of the earth......but flame others who might have a differing opinion.
Just because the car isn't ford chevy or dodge doesn't mean i'm not supporting the economy by buying it. I buy gas from an American gas station, I buy parts from American parts companies, I pay taxes on American roads, the car came from an American dealership, the car was delivered to the American dealership by an American trucker driving an American truck burning fuel sold in America and my particular car as well as a surprising number of other "import" cars was manufactured here in America in Normal, IL
------------------ There is no replacement for: AWD, high rpm's and very very big turbo's
Source: July 1988 Motor Trend Magazine page 132 (the performance listing for all the cars tested in the past year.)
So now that we have 2 1988 vehicles tested by the same magazine and the Fiero was faster in the performance area even though the 4-cyl was turbo'd and put out more horsepower. More horsepower does not mean it's actually faster.
This has been an amusing thread. Sorry, but an Eclipse from the "factory" isn't as fast as some people think. A new one (2005) is a fat pig. A 3.0L V-6 at 210hp on a 3307 lbs chassis and is slow. The older ones are not much better. The Stock Factory Turbo AWD's of the 1990 thru 1997 never got faster than 15.0 seconds in the 1/4 mile and in 1990 they weighed in at 2950 lbs, By 1997 they were 3200 lbs. for the AWD GSX. The stock turbo engines never made more than 210hp. So even with 16 years of advances, The Eclipse is actually slower than previous years. EVO's, WRX's, SRT4's, Focus SVT's, etc are the newer "pocket rockets" The Fiero, RX7, CRX, and the Mopar/DSM Turbo cars were the "pocket rockets" of the 80's. As for "who's faster", That is determined by mods and driver. An 8-second "streetable" car is a fantasy. The set-up the vehicles use at the strip is NOT the same set-up used on the street. There are generally differences in octane, timing, boost level, tires, etc. Just because the guy has it registered, license plates on it, insurance on it, and he drives it around does not mean it is "streetable". I know many with cars that are in the 8-10 second range, They drive it on the road to shows and such, But it isn't a "streetable" car. I don't care what kind of car it is, once you get into the 10's and less the car has been modded to the point of not being "streetable".
I now have a V-8 Fiero which is running about mid 12's. This isn't bad for just adding in a "crate" engine. It may not be the "fastest" but it's just a normally aspirated carb'd engine that will put many newer cars to shame.
The only other thing I'd like to comment on is I consider a "ricer" someone you puts stuff on a car for no other reason then to make it look gaudy or portray the vehicle as something it is not. (It does not mean they own imports, We have plenty of american cars in a sad state of "rice" as well.) A "tuner" is someone who spends his money on functional things to make the car faster or handle better. The "ricers" by me are a large group and are the biggest morons I know. There are a few tuners in the area and they do have impressive cars, But I know for a fact that one guy has spent a lot more than I have and he's only running in the low 13's. True performance parts for any car isn't "cheap" and since "Tuners" are the fastest growing aftermarket, The prices are higher since the high demand is there.
Bottom line: What would I rather be driving: A brand new pocket rocket with turbo whining exhaust. or A 19 year old car with a large displacement hot rod engine.
Answer: See sig.
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner. ZZ4 Powered !!
ricers are only cars with lots of stickers etc and no go????? you guys are kinda looking hypocritical. rice as in the land where lots of rice grows. orient. a cavalier with "ricer" mods is just a wantabee not a real ricer.
i want to beat ricers cause im proud of my AMERICAN iron. it IS a matter of patriotism. Ferraris and Lamborghinis did not take a large part of our wealth. i know the whole parts came from where? debate gets mirky, unfortunately. the cars like Vibe are definitely ricers. puny engines and big pipes, but most importantly, look under the dash - the ecm says Toy...
things do change when you get into the nsx and other fast rwd cars. i start to respect them more. the "fast" american cars that are fwd are just owned by confused individuals. physics is plain. weight shift to the rear on accel.
I have $2500 in my formula with sc3800 and five speed. supposed to do mid 13's. takes an auto vette to 60'. the engine is bone stock and should last forever.
That brings me to why i have loved FIEROS since the first spy photos . . . POTENTIAL!! hated the stock 4. (in '82) not to impressed with the 6. but when all was said and done, would you put a lt1 in a cavalier???? how fast would it be? how would it handle? I love Fieros
finally, Where are the ricers???? sorry, i keep looking for one, but there just arent many here in Flint. when i find them, they dont seem interested. so show me some videos instead!
ricreatr, you're the hypocrit. everything in that post contradicted itself.
oreif, that was a very well worded post. i have always respected you for your knowledge and skills over here in fiero land. the point being raised at the time was dollar for dollar modding. a stock eclipse only runs low 15s like you stated. new srt4s are going high 13s. the progression of time has changed the way cars are being built. todays new cars are about like the muscle car wars of the of the late 60s and early 70s. unfortunately the prices are out of the reach of most mortals. i just get sick of hearing people bag on stuff when they don't know what they are talking about. thats why i posted the things i did.
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
And it will absolutely own the 4.9 fiero you DON'T have.
-Fish
Do you own a Fiero? If so, let's make a little bet. And this goes to all of those who continue run their mouths about questioning if I own a 4.9 Fiero. You give me your daily driven Fiero with clear title If prove I own a 4.9 fiero. Deal?
if u know you can beat an asian car why even bother proving it to the idiot? , insecurity? why not just pull him over & beat the living crap out of him? heh, i guess its hard to resist those annoying mosquito exhausts.. so whats next... "ferrari kills or porsche kills"?
Do you own a Fiero? If so, let's make a little bet. And this goes to all of those who continue run their mouths about questioning if I own a 4.9 Fiero. You give me your daily driven Fiero with clear title If prove I own a 4.9 fiero. Deal?
What does he get when you prove you dont have a 4.9?
What does he get when you prove you dont have a 4.9?
4 Custom wheels from the vendor of his choice. But he won't be getting those from me because I do have a 4.9 However, anybody that feels froggish all they have to do is jump.
[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 10-28-2004).]
people like trigger and sean crack me up. They dont know .... about cars.
Pistons have no effect when adding a turbo. too funny.
When you bought your "fast" car did you learn about thermal technology?
Built in normal, but it doesn't have a domestic engine. So it must make you half patriotic.
I always get a kick when these people own asian vehicles which are POS and add a turbo and think they are gods gift because their somewhat fast. Same goes with their argument that Asia has better cars.
too funny.
btw, a few domestics had four cylinder turbos back in the 80s too
Holy balls there is a lot of hostility on here... I just thought I'd mention that there are members at least one that I know of who run low 15's on a stock 2.8... that would be banditballz from up in Canada... he has like wires and a k&n and thats about it... just thought I'd mention that, he has the slips to prove it as well on his website. That puts him at a mid 6's 0-60 time... slow for a mid 80's car? not to me...
The Fiero grabs peoples attention, the SBC V8 is fun, and is nice to cruise around in. I bring it to the ocasional show/meet and its a part time daily driver. I don't have a powerful small block in it now but someday I will. My DSM is my drag/street car. Its what you will find me in, or under :P , late at night on the streets at the local hangouts with the quicker cars from the Twin Cities. 90% of the cars that my DSM hangs out with are blown nitroused cobras, modded GNs, twin turboed camaros, DSMs, two bad ass supras, and a world beater civic hatch.
Most DSMers ie. eclipse/talon/laser turbo owners are anything but rice boys. Here is a quote I dug up from a magazine.
"Eclipse tuners are a strange sort. They prefer stock wheels and paint. They dont like talking about wings or color matching side skirts and interior. And they wouldn't be caught dead checking out a Wings West Catalog. Sure, occasionlaly you might spot a shy intercooler hiding behind an Eclipse front end or a three-inch exhaust jiggling out the back, but for the most part you'd be lucky to find hubcaps. After all, that's added weight, you know. Eclipse tuners are performance obsessed sleeper fanatics who dream only about downpipes, exhasut gases, and wastegates. Their cars arent pretty, but have the ability to spank you silly on the highway. In other words, Eclipse tuners write checks their cars can cash. They dont spend money on 12-inch subs or amps. Systems only add to the weight and decrease performance. Mention the word "chrome" and they might drop a boot to your skull."
BTW, a good friend of mine has a dsm motor that has made well over a hundred dyno pulls at 500+ WHP on a STOCK motor with cams. A lot of these pulls were between 30-40 PSI. He has ran a best of 11.2 and mph of 129MPH. This motor has lasted through this abuse for two seasons and is showing no signs of letting up. This is what you can expect out of the 4g63 if its properly tuned, a reliable powerful motor.
Here is a list from one of the dyno shops in town of our local group of DSMs and BTW somebody moves up the list about every other week. None of the cars have a body kit and all are stock in appearance except for one. Call these guys rice, most do, and most will lose.
5. John 547whp 90 Talon AWD T3/T4 60-trim 11.0@128mph
6. Andy 531whp 91 Talon AWD SCM61 11.2 129mph
7. Isaac 501whp 90 Laser FWD T4 60-1 11.6@130
8. Jeremy 470whp 99 Eclipse GSX Green 11.9@128
9. Brian 456whp 95 Eclipse GSX T3/T4 SC3561 12.1 and 115mph Pump gas
10. Steve 454whp 92 Talon AWD FP Red 11s and 123mph
I like the whole Domestic/Import rivalry when its respectful, unfortunately it always seems to be the ignorant uniformed few that run their mouths and start all the BS. Frankly, there are some awesome cars on this forum (most of these owners haven't made a peep in this thread) that are dipping into the elevens and that is impressive, but can the rest of us lay off the bench racing a bit? I mean its not even the thick of winter yet (bench racing season) and this thread is full of it. :P
Hey Jimmy whats your best ET with the DSM? I forgot what you told me when I met you. Thanks mate.
------------------ 1986 GT, LT1/4T60E http://hometown.aol.com/ptfiero/index.html On the forum https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/045554.html more in depth look http://dtcc.cz28.com/LT1build/index.htm
people like trigger and sean crack me up. They dont know .... about cars.
Pistons have no effect when adding a turbo. too funny.
WTF?
1) Who said anything about ADDING a turbo? My car already came with one and thus the pistons are designed to handle boost much better than a piston not designed for it, as stated above the stock engines in these cars are over-engineered quite well.
2) The turbo itself doesn't affect anything except for airflow, its the person who sets up the turbo, controls the boost, timing advance, fuel flow, engine internals etc in the proper sequence and strength to keep the engine together.
3) The turbo has an effect on the piston if you dont know wtf your doing, but the only thing the turbo knows is that it is getting exhaust from somewhere and its going to spin as fast as it can with the given energy from that exhaust.
4) If what someone buys is the only thing that determines how patriotic they are how about you return about every piece of electronic equipment, a good percentage of the clothes you own, the majority of the gas you buy and a good portion of the parts on your "domestic" car because they did not come from the good ol USA. Also, I hate to be the first to tell you this but this is a global economy and no matter how hard you try you will never be able to buy all American. We just dont make enough of everything we do make here to support us alone and there is alot of stuff that we dont make at all that we need.
5) I never said they didnt have domestic turbo's, in fact I named one. Dodge shadow turbo.
Jimmy - Thats what I would like to do, have both but apparantly people cant accept that anything other than a v8 can be fast. Also, thats a nice list of cars you have in your area, we've got quite a few cars around here i'd like to get ahold of but you how it works, you always see em cruisin around in the beater or something and not your "good" car lol
I have a 2.4 g4cs 6 bolt block sitting on a stand waiting for whenever I get enough money to finish it as well, did you do a 6 or 7 bolt with yours?
------------------ There is no replacement for: AWD, high rpm's and very very big turbo's
[This message has been edited by Sean4852 (edited 10-28-2004).]
Jimmy - Thats what I would like to do, have both but apparantly people cant accept that anything other than a v8 can be fast. Also, thats a nice list of cars you have in your area, we've got quite a few cars around here i'd like to get ahold of but you how it works, you always see em cruisin around in the beater or something and not your "good" car lol
I have a 2.4 g4cs 6 bolt block sitting on a stand waiting for whenever I get enough money to finish it as well, did you do a 6 or 7 bolt with yours?
I used the g4cs block, 6 bolt, but you know that because its a g4cs. We have 2 4g64 7 bolts locally, one walked within 1500 miles the other ran a 10.4 and made 667whp. Go figure? I state I have a 4g64 cause people don't know what the heck a g4cs block is. I had www.qprinc.com build the block for me. Eagle rods, 8.8:1 wiseco forged pistons with teflon side skirts, arp head studs torqued to 100 ftlbs with 4g64 head gasket, using dsmlink to disable random misfire code when you use the 1g cas. I love this motor, off boost low end torque is great for city driving.
Pat, hows it going? I ran a 12.9@109mph on pump last year on the stock motor and some basic upgrades. This year I built up a 2.4 motor, added dsmlink (basic stand alone), fuel mods, turbo mods, better clutch, bunch of little stuff. I hope to get it to the track this year, I may have to travel south as the tracks are closed in the Minnesota area. The thought of driving 600 miles in one direction just to drag race doesn't bother me in the least bit! A group of us are planning to hit up a track sometime in the next month, preferably an IHRA track.
Originally posted by Jimmy: I used the g4cs block, 6 bolt, but you know that because its a g4cs. We have 2 4g64 7 bolts locally, one walked within 1500 miles the other ran a 10.4 and made 667whp. Go figure? I state I have a 4g64 cause people don't know what the heck a g4cs block is. I had www.qprinc.com build the block for me. Eagle rods, 8.8:1 wiseco forged pistons with teflon side skirts, arp head studs torqued to 100 ftlbs with 4g64 head gasket, using dsmlink to disable random misfire code when you use the 1g cas. I love this motor, off boost low end torque is great for city driving.
Nice vid! My goal is 600awhp with my g4cs and high 10's on pump gas street driven. That car appears to do both except better, Nice. Props from me
I've got eagle rods and arp head/main studs as well sitting in their boxes collecting dust lol. Did you get the pistons from magnus? Any problems with knock at higher boost? I would rather have 8:1 than 8.8:1 but nobody seems to have them in that low of a cr...
------------------ There is no replacement for: AWD, high rpm's and very very big turbo's
I won't but anything from magnus. That being said their long rod setup is nice. I ordered everything through QPR, I spent around $2000 for the entire bottom end including buying the block.
Good luck running 10s on pump, that will prove to be difficult though not impossible. The car in the vid made that run on c16 @ 31 psi he also has posted a 138mph run at 11.0.
In an effort to stay on topic, there are some videos of a v8 fiero racing a civic, neon (not rice but sport compact), turbo bettle, and maybe an rx-7 on kazza.
Jim
[This message has been edited by Jimmy (edited 10-28-2004).]
people like trigger and sean crack me up. They dont know .... about cars. Pistons have no effect when adding a turbo. too funny. When you bought your "fast" car did you learn about thermal technology? Built in normal, but it doesn't have a domestic engine. So it must make you half patriotic. I always get a kick when these people own asian vehicles which are POS and add a turbo and think they are gods gift because their somewhat fast. Same goes with their argument that Asia has better cars. too funny.
btw, a few domestics had four cylinder turbos back in the 80s too
i don't know about cars? i find that kind of ironic coming from an engineer. i work on cars all day, everyday, for a living. when i leave my job, i go work on more cars. i make fast cars, i've done a bagged sonoma that lays frame. i've rebuilt engines. telling me i don't know about cars? you're a no talent a$$ clown as far as im concerned. this thread was calming down til you talked.
as stated by sean, our cars came turbo. read the whole post before making an a$$ of yourself. all that education and still proving that you're an engineer. atta guy.
yeah, i understand how temperatures work. that could explain why i have a pyrometer tapped into my exhaust manifold.
yeah, dodge built some turbo 4 bangers, head gaskets whores. gm built a couple, don't see any of them around anymore. omni glhs, not a bad car, other than the aforementioned head gasket problems. the only notable domestic turbo car of the 80s would be the gn, gnx line, and they were v6 powered. now stfu newbie.
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
Alright since when did this board turn into aneclipse and Eagle Talon forum? Please read the top of the page. It happens to say "Pennock's FIERO Forum, not Pennock's Eclipse Forum or Pennock's Eagle Talon Forum. This thread has been completely hijacked by Sean, trigger, and jimmy. This thread did not say anything about Talons or whatever the **** you drive, it stated RICERS. IMO a ricer is a weak economical car that is modified for the "look at me" factor. I hate ricers and whenever I get the chance I make them look like fools, even with my Fiero which I'll admit is slow. Eclipses are only ricers imo if the owner makes the exterior look like one. Eclipses are designed as sports cars, not the econo-car pieces of **** like Honda puts out. Talons....I've only seen like 20 in my entire life, and have never seen a ricey one, so they are not rice. But you three and your "American cars are pieces of **** , just look at how our cars are superior because they are AWD and turboed instead of RWD and V8". Besides comparing a Fiero and an Eclipse is like comparing apples and oranges. Fieros were originally designed as sporty fast mid-engine cars, but GM management decided that the only way it'd EVER make production was as a commuter econo-car. Eclipses and Talons, if not just because they offered Turbos, are designed as sports cars. Judging a stock Fiero and a stock Eclipse is insane, the cars were made for different purposes. I'm sure that if GM really wanted the Fiero to be a sports car they would have given it a high-performance, possibly turbo-charged V6.
BTW gave you a neg trigger for your really immature post. "Now shut the **** up (stfu) newbie"? I understand CertifiedMechanic probably got you pissed off, but that's no way to act, personally attacking someone. Will someone please get on topic in this damn thread or close it? Enough of the import-praising .
------------------ 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT, 2.8L V6 3-speed auto 37,000 miles 2000 Camaro Z28, 5.7L LS1 V8 4-speed auto 42,000 miles My Cardomain Page
with all of that work how long do you think the turbo 4 cly will last. if it is stock and you turn up the boost you will scatter it all over the ground. Compairing like this and like apples vs. oranges.
exdeath, i never said american cars suck. i happen to own one. i don't think i stepped out of line when I was personally attacked first. somebody telling me i don't know anything about cars when its my livelyhood. the reason i said what i did, is due to the fact that he is a newbie, who obviously didn't read the whole post before he said the stupid things that he did. also, i have seen you come unglued before, and i don't recall you getting a negative rating from me, but whatever.
and if you'll read jimmy's sig, his car is rwd and a v8.
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
[This message has been edited by trigger (edited 10-29-2004).]
The pistons have nothing to do with it, its a tuning issues if thier melting pistons with a 14b. The stock injectors are tiny and people try to push them too far because thier cheap and dont want to do stuff the right way and buy bigger injectors. Obviously you cant just put on a big turbo, injectors and an ic and expect it to be fast, you have to know wtf your doing or the car will break. If you aren't out launching off every stop light with 4 racing slicks and slamming the gears around so hard your breaking shift forks the tranny's are fine. You have to know how to drive and holding it on the rev limiter and side stepping the clutch isn't knowing how to drive, its having a death wish. I'm sick of people bitching about the reliabity of these cars, they are old, parts wear out and break when you add more power and especially if you try to do stuff with modding before basic maitance stuff.
Anybody can bolt a turbo on, but can you make it work with your setup, do you have the right supporting mods, correct fuel tuning, engine in good shape, mileage, how was it taken care of before you got it. I never had one problem with either of my dsm's aside from me getting the wrong axle shaft from the parts store when the cv joints went out and it popping out on me while i was driving down the road on my laser. The talon had bad valve seals and a bad clutch, the car had 188k miles on it when i got it and it had a t-belt accident before i bought it because nobody wants to pay to keep up on the maitance so the belt broke and they replaced it with a used head that had bad valve seals. The clutch that was in it was some cheap taiwanese pos that had been replaced previously and was obiviously the cheapest clutch they could find to put in it at the time and did not hold up to awd launches at all. My laser was on its factory original clutch for 175k miles before it finally started to have some chatter.
seans talon is modded. it has a maft, safc II, 255, tdo6 20g, fmic, 3" exhaust, 880cc injectors, keydiver stage 3 chip, act 2900, and a fidanza 8lb flywheel. that should cover most of it.
i've never heard of dsms having piston problems unless a lot of knock was present. under severe boost creep i was seeing 20+ psi on a ported and clipped big 16g on stock injectors and it was fine. i launch the car at 6k on a regular basis w/a 2600 and fidanza flywheel and it sees the rev limiter on a weekly basis with no problems. my fiero took the launches well enough, but burnt up a lot of clutches, granted they were cheap, but that like bast*rd hooked. it hated life when it saw the limiter though.
Just because the car isn't ford chevy or dodge doesn't mean i'm not supporting the economy by buying it. I buy gas from an American gas station, I buy parts from American parts companies, I pay taxes on American roads, the car came from an American dealership, the car was delivered to the American dealership by an American trucker driving an American truck burning fuel sold in America and my particular car as well as a surprising number of other "import" cars was manufactured here in America in Normal, IL
ya, so does this make you half patriotic. Because it isn't a 100% domestic vehicle.
I never said im a patriot bragging how i buy all american.
1) Who said anything about ADDING a turbo? My car already came with one and thus the pistons are designed to handle boost much better than a piston not designed for it, as stated above the stock engines in these cars are over-engineered quite well.
of course, there was an engineer who designed the motor ,and not some do it yourself like you who just adds a turbo on a car.
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2) The turbo itself doesn't affect anything except for airflow, its the person who sets up the turbo, controls the boost, timing advance, fuel flow, engine internals etc in the proper sequence and strength to keep the engine together.
3) The turbo has an effect on the piston if you dont know wtf your doing, but the only thing the turbo knows is that it is getting exhaust from somewhere and its going to spin as fast as it can with the given energy from that exhaust.
turbo doesn't effect anything except airflow REALLY???? doesn't it effect the pressure going into the engine and also the temperature? I wonder why your ricer came with an intercooler
3)..... So why dont turbos build boost when revving at idle? MR I know everything about cars?
Just because you can be running a 14.7 or richer mixture doesn't mean you cant harm the pistons. strike III
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4) If what someone buys is the only thing that determines how patriotic they are how about you return about every piece of electronic equipment, a good percentage of the clothes you own, the majority of the gas you buy and a good portion of the parts on your "domestic" car because they did not come from the good ol USA. Also, I hate to be the first to tell you this but this is a global economy and no matter how hard you try you will never be able to buy all American. We just dont make enough of everything we do make here to support us alone and there is alot of stuff that we dont make at all that we need.
I do know i have a college education. So please show me where i brag about being patriotic and buying american products? I do remember what i have typed in this post.
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Jimmy - Thats what I would like to do, have both but apparantly people cant accept that anything other than a v8 can be fast. Also, thats a nice list of cars you have in your area, we've got quite a few cars around here i'd like to get ahold of but you how it works, you always see em cruisin around in the beater or something and not your "good" car lol
I have a 2.4 g4cs 6 bolt block sitting on a stand waiting for whenever I get enough money to finish it as well, did you do a 6 or 7 bolt with yours?
And that is why there are many 4 cylinder domestic and european faster then asian cars.
Hotrodding a four cylinder is a waste of time and money. It can be done. It was done a lot in the 80s with domestics. Four cylinders are still used in sprint cars and other form of racing today. But if you want to brag to people you pulled off 600hp out of your POS talon eventhough it has been done before. Go ahead. Its your dime.
i don't know about cars? i find that kind of ironic coming from an engineer. i work on cars all day, everyday, for a living. when i leave my job, i go work on more cars. i make fast cars, i've done a bagged sonoma that lays frame. i've rebuilt engines. telling me i don't know about cars? you're a no talent a$$ clown as far as im concerned. this thread was calming down til you talked.
as stated by sean, our cars came turbo. read the whole post before making an a$$ of yourself. all that education and still proving that you're an engineer. atta guy.
yeah, i understand how temperatures work. that could explain why i have a pyrometer tapped into my exhaust manifold.
yeah, dodge built some turbo 4 bangers, head gaskets whores. gm built a couple, don't see any of them around anymore. omni glhs, not a bad car, other than the aforementioned head gasket problems. the only notable domestic turbo car of the 80s would be the gn, gnx line, and they were v6 powered. now stfu newbie.
eventhough you work on cars all day long, doesn't mean you know anything. So you do oil changes all day long makes you knowledgable with OBDII systems? Or just putting rings on a piston gives you a clue on how an engine works down to the atom?
this thread was calming down. It would have been calmed down if you two guys were not saying how fieros sucked and only a company that isn't around anymore built superior cars.
because you read a temperature gauge means you know how temperature works? So when its red on the gauge, you know the temperature is hot?
There is a difference in reading exhaust temperature and knowing heat transfers of an engine. Oh ya, you put a few engines together for a living.
yes you can burn pistons while running at 14.7 or richer when running with a turbo. But you have no clue about piston design.
14.7:1 may be best a/f for creating the cleanest burn but it is not the a/f you want when under hard boost, you are looking at closer to 11.5:1 on pump gas on these cars, anything more than that and you are living on the edge of detonation from a lean condition.
I may not know how to design a piston but I know thier purpose, the strength of the pistons I have and how far I can push them and obviously you dont or you would realize just because one "can" burn a piston with a turbo car it doesn't mean they will. Like i've said countless times before its all in the tuning but since most people prefer carbed v8's and such they dont have to worry about it but when you start talking forced induction you cant just bolt a part on and expect it to work without you knowing how to tune for it. If you are holing pistons then you are doing something wrong, I have yet to hole any pistons in my car and i'm running in the low 20's for boost pressure from the stock 12psi and it hasn't scattered itself all over the ground and I dont forsee it doing so as I pay attention to what the car wants, have the correct gauges and metering devices to control the fuel system and take care of the car with regular maitance. Somebody is doing something wrong and seeing as my car is running just as good as ever I do not belive it is me
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Originally posted by CertifiedMechanic: of course, there was an engineer who designed the motor ,and not some do it yourself like you who just adds a turbo on a car.
And what is wrong with someone putting a turbo on a car that didnt originally have one? I know there are a couple turbo fieros here, I dont see you out ragging on them. Maybe some people dont want a v8 or dont want to spend the money on swapping in a v8 so they can just do a junkyard turbo setup for cheaper than the swap, get better gas mileage, and still be faster than the v8. Its a matter of preference and if you know how to do it there is nothing wrong with it, if you are a jacka$$ about it you will bake the engine but not if you have the correct tuning equipment and know what your doing.
The boost pressure is a result of the airflow, the rise in temperature is a result of the compressing of the air, with a good intercooler the temperature will be cool by the time it gets to the engine so its effect is negligble assuming you have a correctly sized/flowing intercooler for your setup. The boost pressure is about the worst way to measure anything, boost pressure is the amount of air not getting into the engine and even if one runs more pressure it may not make them faster because of running the turbo out of its efficience range. Oh wait, I dont know that cause I dont know anything about thermodynamics... Also calling my car a ricer is talking big, you ready to back it up?
Whats your problem, I can build boost revving off idle? It takes the throttle being open all of like 2% to free rev an engine to redline, the engine may be revving hard but its not moving much exhaust because the throttle plate is restricting it and thus not enough exhaust to build boost by holding the rpms high. If you go off idle and lay into the throttle a greater percentage and let off before you find the rev limiter you will build boost without being in gear. I never said I know everything about cars, nobody does but if you call someone out on knowing about thier own car and telling them they dont know wtf thier doing and thier going to kill the engine just because its not an overweight piece of pig iron from the 70's then you better be ready to back it up.
"Built in normal, but it doesn't have a domestic engine. So it must make you half patriotic" You said I am half patriotic because my car isn't a chevy. I take that as a personal attack on me as I belive I am very patriotic and I do not belive the kind of car you buy has any effect on how patriotic one is. Also when I said american fuel I was saying that your buying it at an american station and thus the kid workin at the counter for minimum wage will still have his job since people will always need gas.
So where is the list of domestic 4cly's running 8's in street trim like shep? Show me, i'm curious as all the domestic 4cly's i see at the drag strip are tube chassi rwd's with no other purpose than going fast in a straight line...
Modding any car is a waste of money, its a loosing investment no matter what you do. I will spend my money the way I see fit and I dont see you stopping anybody else on this forum with quad4's and such. There is nothing wrong with 4 clys, they make good power and are easy to find.
So just because it has been done before I should stop doing it? Alright to everyone that wants to put a v8 in a fiero you have to stop cause it has been done before. I dont want to brag to anyone, I dont care what people think of me, I just want to do it to say that I did and that much power will be more than enough for me in this particular vehicle before I move on to some something new. And again with the calling my car names, are you ready to back up your keyboarding skills?
Nobody said fieros suck, I do not see that in any post anywhere. You keep putting words in peoples mouths, in fact if you would acctually read the entire post I said the reason I am here is to see what people are doing with these cars so I can see which year/trim level I would prefer to have as well as what to do with it when I do buy one. Nobody cares about how an engine works at the atomic level unless you are the one designing the engine. Keep knock down, egts under control, enough fuel, correct intercooling, and sufficient engine interals for the power being made and you will never have a problem.
To end I would just like to say that I do not care if you are an engineer, I am not. I am still in college, I do not claim to know much but what I do know I will not back down from. Everything happens for a reason, if you melt a piston its because you f*cked up, not some engineer from the company that designed the car. I dont care what an engine was designed for originally if someone wants to put a turbo on it they they should do it, as long as they read up on the basics and have the right supporting mods for the amount of power thier making the engine should never come apart.
yeah, i think it puked antifreeze all over the parking lot. lol. we had a pretty good talk. super clean car.
Yeah, Minngreen warmed the car up running up and down the freeway, Fierochic88 popped the overflow tank. I was freaking out thinking it was my radiator, thank god it was just a cracked overflow tank. Drove home just fine. That was my one and only overheat. Here is a pic from that night.
And, in the efforts to stay on topic, I have raced many a ricer and won.
Certified Mechanic, what have you modified on your Fiero?
14.7:1 may be best a/f for creating the cleanest burn but it is not the a/f you want when under hard boost, you are looking at closer to 11.5:1 on pump gas on these cars, anything more than that and you are living on the edge of detonation from a lean condition. I may not know how to design a piston but I know thier purpose, the strength of the pistons I have and how far I can push them and obviously you dont or you would realize just because one "can" burn a piston with a turbo car it doesn't mean they will. Like i've said countless times before its all in the tuning but since most people prefer carbed v8's and such they dont have to worry about it but when you start talking forced induction you cant just bolt a part on and expect it to work without you knowing how to tune for it. If you are holing pistons then you are doing something wrong, I have yet to hole any pistons in my car and i'm running in the low 20's for boost pressure from the stock 12psi and it hasn't scattered itself all over the ground and I dont forsee it doing so as I pay attention to what the car wants, have the correct gauges and metering devices to control the fuel system and take care of the car with regular maitance. Somebody is doing something wrong and seeing as my car is running just as good as ever I do not belive it is me
first paragraph is pointless and just repeating what i said. Running at 14.7 or richer.
2nd paragraph
You can still burn a piston while running rich. Learn to read buddy. There are many ways to melt a piston. Dont need detonation to do it.
Didn't you say your car came with a turbo from the factory. That would mean, your car's engine has been designed to run with a turbo. Pretty much solves the 5 years of college and years of experience to put your engine together because it has been all done for you.
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The boost pressure is a result of the airflow, the rise in temperature is a result of the compressing of the air, with a good intercooler the temperature will be cool by the time it gets to the engine so its effect is negligble assuming you have a correctly sized/flowing intercooler for your setup. The boost pressure is about the worst way to measure anything, boost pressure is the amount of air not getting into the engine and even if one runs more pressure it may not make them faster because of running the turbo out of its efficience range. Oh wait, I dont know that cause I dont know anything about thermodynamics... Also calling my car a ricer is talking big, you ready to back it up?
so after doing some research, you realize theres more to a turbo then just airflow. good comeback. because you would have stated all of this before.
"boost pressure is the amount of air not getting into the engine" so where is this air going ? outerspace?
what? you can have high pressure with no air flow? to bad you didn't mention this. You should do more researching on the internet.
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Whats your problem, I can build boost revving off idle? It takes the throttle being open all of like 2% to free rev an engine to redline, the engine may be revving hard but its not moving much exhaust because the throttle plate is restricting it and thus not enough exhaust to build boost by holding the rpms high. If you go off idle and lay into the throttle a greater percentage and let off before you find the rev limiter you will build boost without being in gear. I never said I know everything about cars, nobody does but if you call someone out on knowing about thier own car and telling them they dont know wtf thier doing and thier going to kill the engine just because its not an overweight piece of pig iron from the 70's then you better be ready to back it up.
2% to rev an engine to redline uh okay
I wonder why its not revving at redline when the iac is opening a path for more air to come in.
Im still laughing on how you "believe" the concept of how a turbo works. Because the theory of how a turbo works, there is no boost in neutral. Go try this on your ricer and look at your boost gauge.
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"Built in normal, but it doesn't have a domestic engine. So it must make you half patriotic" You said I am half patriotic because my car isn't a chevy. I take that as a personal attack on me as I belive I am very patriotic and I do not belive the kind of car you buy has any effect on how patriotic one is. Also when I said american fuel I was saying that your buying it at an american station and thus the kid workin at the counter for minimum wage will still have his job since people will always need gas.
cant read again
i said your half patriotic because your poseur mobile doesn't have a domestic engine.... therefore your half patriotic.
Do a search on the web and you can find plently of fast 4 cylinder domestics or even do a search on this forum for a fast superduty natural aspirated fiero dragster You can do your own research before giving everyone your ignorant statements
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So just because it has been done before I should stop doing it? Alright to everyone that wants to put a v8 in a fiero you have to stop cause it has been done before. I dont want to brag to anyone, I dont care what people think of me, I just want to do it to say that I did and that much power will be more than enough for me in this particular vehicle before I move on to some something new. And again with the calling my car names, are you ready to back up your keyboarding skills?
people can do whatever they feel with their vehicle.
but the difference between them and you is they are not bragging about their POS car in a fiero forum. How superior it is because it can be modified to 600hp :rolleyes
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Nobody said fieros suck, I do not see that in any post anywhere. You keep putting words in peoples mouths, in fact if you would acctually read the entire post I said the reason I am here is to see what people are doing with these cars so I can see which year/trim level I would prefer to have as well as what to do with it when I do buy one. Nobody cares about how an engine works at the atomic level unless you are the one designing the engine. Keep knock down, egts under control, enough fuel, correct intercooling, and sufficient engine interals for the power being made and you will never have a problem.
no im just quoting you and your ricer buddy. You dont see me having a problem with anyone else, do you?
topic of this thread is beating ricers, but somehow you got people pissed at you. I wonder why
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To end I would just like to say that I do not care if you are an engineer, I am not. I am still in college, I do not claim to know much but what I do know I will not back down from. Everything happens for a reason, if you melt a piston its because you f*cked up, not some engineer from the company that designed the car. I dont care what an engine was designed for originally if someone wants to put a turbo on it they they should do it, as long as they read up on the basics and have the right supporting mods for the amount of power thier making the engine should never come apart.
your in college. that would prove why your so ignorant, and lack the knowledge how cars really work. Just because you own a ricer doesn't mean you know how a car works. And you fit the stereotype nicely. Teenager or young adult still in school who has a sporty car but it has a 4 cylinder. Im so called the fastest thing on the road. And because im into the sportcompact sport, i know everything about cars
the difference between an engineer and you is a lot. You still think only that running the right fuel ratio and timing will not effect the engine.
"engine should never come apart" what happend to the engine being non turbo from the factory. Wont the pistons, connecting rod, crankshaft, and bearings take a toll on the added stress. But wait, us engineers dont know anything and ricer boys do. Aslong as it doesn't detonate, the pistons and other parts will not suffer fatigue.
jimmy, i was in the parking lot when that picture was taken. and yes, i agree, certifed piece of **** , what do you have done to your fiero? you sure do seem the think that your **** don't stink.
you're telling sean that just because he's going to school doesn't mean he knows anything. what makes you think that you know anything then? i've seen engineers **** up a light bulb install.
you're talking a lot of **** , and it doesn't sound like you're ready to back it, and you are just repeating everything you've said. at what point did anybody say fieros sucked? you think you're partriotic? what makes you any more patriotic than the rest of us? my dad fought 3 tours in vietnam, he rides a yamaha motorcycle. you want to call him unpatriotic? it would quite possibly be the last thing you ever did.
you keep saying sean's "adding a turbo to a car", then, in your last post. you say, so what, you bought a turbod car. can't make up your mind?
when i said i'd never heard of it, thats from the research i have done. browse dsmtalk when its up. quite a few more members than this forum, and a lot of fast cars.
how is modding a 4 cylinder a waste of time and money? its going to be faster than v8s, and get better gas mileage. well?
i don't do oil changes all day long. yes i know obd II. nobody ****ing cares about the atoms in an engine block. except some dip **** engineer thats trying to reinvent the wheel and take credit for it. you're a dumb ****er. thats all it comes down too.
yet again, who said fieros suck? and which company isn't around? mitsubishi? go race an evo mr, and post up a video clip since thats what this thread is about. make sure you've got a good zoom function so we can see the taillights all the way ahead of you.
no, you have to know how to properly tune using an egt gauge, datalogger, and other variables.
how many engines have you ever built? once you build an engine, the factory aspects go out the window. all new tuning maps. have you ever tuned an engine? or wait, yeah, you're trying to reinvent the wheel. hows that going for you?
i can go out to my car, stomp on the gas pedal, and build boost in neutral. you go try it. oh wait, you don't know jack about turbo cars, and have obviously never worked on one. this thread belongs in the trash can.
how many 600 hp fieros are in existance? i bet you can count them on one hand. jimmy posted a list with 3 just in his area, and some of those cars are a little knob twisting away from 600.
tell ya what, why don't you come down here, try reiventing the oil change while you're at it, since you think you're the brightest crayon in the box, and tell me how i don't know about cars. you're problem is that fact that in trying to prove that we don't know anything, you show the retard inside of you. i don't see anybody backing you up.
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
Nice vid! My goal is 600awhp with my g4cs and high 10's on pump gas street driven. That car appears to do both except better, Nice. Props from me 
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