Yes imports DO suck. This is a Fiero forum. The F%CKING car is 20 YRS OLD. Why is that so hard to understand. No 4cyl that was made in the 80's had this kinda HP. DUH. RICE IS RICE. Trigger you are a RICER so I dont know why you and other people like you are here?
actually, the dsm was released in 89. the turbo models made 195hp, the nt made 130. im not a ricer. my car looks stock other than being lowered and having exhaust. no rice here. im here because i am a fiero owner. im also a realist.
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Originally posted by DelawareFiero:The whole point is if someone has 30K to spend and they get a boosted 4CYL, and they drive around like there sh!t dont stink. THEY ARE A RICER.
I understand there are sh*t talkers on here, but it doesnt matter because they are Fiero owners.
Dollar for Dollar the RICE will lose. Someone buys a 25K RICE mobile. yeah its ok for stock. Fiero owners put 25K in there Fiero. Whos gonna have a faster car?
you don't have to pay 30k for a boosted car. **** talkers are stupid, and i don't care what kind of car they drive. if you can't back it, don't say it. simple sh*t. dollar for dollar you will lose. how much is that 3800sc swap costing you? guarantee i can go 12s for far less.
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Originally posted by DelawareFiero:Just like yesterday when Fieroprek and I were Doing 70 around a 30 corner. The little 25K RICER WRX that was behind us, didnt seem to have the confidence in his NEW car? But his GIANT WING and FARTCAN helped. whaahahahahahha.
wrx's are quick cars. were you running around acting like your sh*t don't stink and racing your shadow? or was he actually trying?
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
[This message has been edited by trigger (edited 10-24-2004).]
Im not trying to start anything sean but I just have a question....do you even own a fiero or do you even like them or are you just here to brag on your "ricer" and put down on the fiero?
I'm not trying to brag on any car, I just dont like people saying "this car is better than this car cause it was made in America so therefore its faster, more reliable, gets better gas mileage, doesn't rust as bad, paint doesn't crack, doesn't wear the roads as much, gets around better in snow and doesn't polute as much just because it came from an American plant and no other reason" If you want to get technical alot of "American cars" are not made totally in the US and alot of import cars are not made overseas but were not going to get into that either.
Aside from me hating Fords in general(long story) I like alot of cars, and I'm here because i like to see what everyone is doing with these cars as I wouldn't mind having one one day but I dont have a place to keep the cars I have already nor do I have the money to support the addictive modding habit on any more cars
[This message has been edited by Sean4852 (edited 10-24-2004).]
Bet you didn't know that a fiero was a fast car in the 80s. It would hang with a 305 camaro and not much slower than a 350 camaro. Doesn't sound like much because they are considered slow nowadays as well but for the time the fiero was hot.
Technology made todays cars fast. Putting newer technology under the decklid of a fiero doesn't make it par with todays cars, it makes it blow away 95% of the cars on the street.
I have $1500 into my 3.4dohc. It will be a high 13 second car and still looks better than 95% of the cars on the road today.
People arn't buying and modifying fieros because they cant afford any of the above mentioned stock fast cars. People like me love the looks of the fiero and the fact its mid engined. I have over 10k in my fiero and will probibly spend another 10k before its "done" There are people on this forum with probibly 40k+ into their fieros. Put almost any car beside Madcurl's car and see where the attention goes. Or Plasma.
Hey its cool. At least I see who is a RICER on here. Basically I gave my opinion, and so did everyone else. No hard feelings.
Dollar for Dollar was talking about BUYING a new RICE wagon. Not getting a pile of SH!T from someone.
12s? Nah too slow for me.
I'll add my reciepts from the engine when Im done.
Yes the WRX was trying. Thats all thats around here. They get a car and run around racing from stoplights, weaving in and out of traffic, etc. Its pretty sad.
------------------ Bottles are for babies. Dont let your babies grow up to be RICERS. Its up to YOU to prevent RICE.
actually, the dsm was released in 89. the turbo models made 195hp, the nt made 130. im not a ricer. my car looks stock other than being lowered and having exhaust. no rice here. im here because i am a fiero owner. im also a realist.
Actually if you were a realist you would understand the inconsistancy of your statements. The Fiero stopped production as an 88 model year. Find a pre-89 stock vehicle to make your comparisons with....otherwise you're not being as real as you claim.
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[This message has been edited by Key Of David (edited 10-24-2004).]
Originally posted by DelawareFiero: No 4cyl that was made in the 80's had this kinda HP. DUH.
i gave him proof that he was wrong. that is all.
delaware fiero. how is me buying a used eclipse any diferent than you buying a used fiero? you wanna go dollar for dollar on 11s or 10s? you won't win this argument.
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
Originally posted by Key Of David: Actually if you were a realist you would understand the inconsistancy of your statements. The Fiero stopped production as an 88 model year. Find a pre-89 stock vehicle to make your comparisons with....otherwise you're not being as real as you claim.
Originally posted by LoW_KeY: hmm evo, wrx are all forced inductioned motors. If the fiero would've gotten the turbo from the factory would've been a more fair comparison.
Dont take this the wrong way, but statements like this bug me. If your making excuses for it not being a "fair" comparison because your car didnt come with a turbo and someone elses did then someone bought the wrong car. I could say "if mitsu would have put on a front mount IC on my car stock it would have been so and so much faster" but they never did so it doesn't really matter and its a wortheless point to argue. Sorry if I came off rude but things like that bug me...
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Originally posted by Mastermind: A Fiero with a stock 3800SC would be a fairer comparison.
What is it with everyone and comparing stock cars, my car was slow when i got it in comparison to cars nowadays. You dont just sit and complain about it, you mod the car to make it faster. Saying "if gm hadn't stopped production" or "if gm had put in a 3800SC stock" has no bearing because they never did, as soon as you put one in your car its not stock anymore so your not comparing a stock car to a stock car anymore anyway.
I think its just a waste of time comparing stock cars at all, my car isn't stock so I dont care what it did when it was stock, I care about what it can do now. Thats what you guys should be more worried about, if your fiero with a 3800SC is faster than whatever car you are racing. Shouldn't matter if its a totally stock evo, little buzzbomb honda with a blue bottle or an old chevelle with a blower sticking out of the hood. It all comes down to who's car is faster...
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Originally posted by VA RICR-ETR: agree the WRX and EVO are pretty fine cars..... But you said stock. That's like saying take a 'stock' Firehawk against something. These cars are anything but 'stock'. If you want to be accurate, than it would be 'take a stock Impreza or Lancer'. Trust me, the stock versions of those cars are terrible and I whip them frequently. Heck, even my wife's stock Saturn SL2 will whip either of cars stock anyday. Sorry.
The wrx and evo are stock cars, if they are exactly the way they came off the assembly line then they are stock. They are just not a base model POS either. Something like a ralliart, mazdaspeed or srt-4 with the mopar staged upgrades I wouldn't consider stock but if the owner has all stock parts on it that you can buy at any dealership then it is stock...
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Originally posted by Erik: My car has a stock NA 3.4 DOHC in it and it will kill a stock eclipse turbo awd of any year ..been there done that a few times. I've beat a couple of WRX's as well. It may not be stock from the factory, but it would have been had GM not killed the Fiero in 88. The 89 prototype had one installed. Imagine how the Fiero would have evolved especially since it would be competing with the Mr2 turbo. A turbo DOHC v6 probably
"What if..." I could say if they hadn't killed off the talon it'd have a TT v6 w/ a 6 speed since there were prototypes of it but they never made them. Prototypes are not production vehicles, car companies are all out to make a buck. Higher hp means less reliability and more warranty claims, thus less money. If they didnt put a certain engine in a car or they stopped production of the car it means they weren't selling enough of them or they weren't making enough of a profit selling them. There wasn't enough call for Talons so they stopped making them in 98. Do I wish they would bring them back? Yes. Do I sit here and say "well if they hadn't killed it I would be so much faster than the new evo or wrx"? No, I break out the check book and make the car faster. I dont need to sit here and wait for mitsu to do it for me. If you guys' cars aren't fast enough dont complain cause gm didnt put a 3800sc in it stock, get out the tools and put the b*tch in yourself. Thats what this is all about, make the car faster than the original manufacturer did
All we are asking is that just because a car is a mitsu or subaru you do not call it a ricer. Alot of these cars are very potent, you need watch your step, you will meet people on the street that have fast imports, you will get a nice surprise and i dont think thier gonna care if you start makin excuses about how it woulda been if gm would have done this and this to the car had they not cut production.
------------------ There is no replacement for: AWD, high rpm's and very very big turbo's
Ive yet to see any of the ricers here post any kind of time slip. Newsflash, 13s and 14s arent fast. 12s arent that fast either, but you're getting there.
I built an engine for my firebird that runs low 12s in a car that weighs almost 4000 lbs on street tires, and will last a LONG time...for less than $2000. Can you say the same?
I dont brag I have a "fast" car. When you can run 11s, you're getting fast. Its funny seeing all the people that run high 12s and 13s bragging on how fast you are. Dont get me wrong - Im not saying its not an accomplishment, I respect anyone that makes their engine faster, whether its running 16s or 10s, but dont act like you're fast in your 13 second car.
[This message has been edited by PontiacMan (edited 10-25-2004).]
Ive yet to see any of the ricers here post any kind of time slip. Newsflash, 13s and 14s arent fast. 12s arent that fast either, but you're getting there.
I built an engine for my firebird that runs low 12s in a car that weighs almost 4000 lbs on street tires, and will last a LONG time...for less than $2000. Can you say the same?
I dont brag I have a "fast" car. When you can run 11s, you're getting fast. Its funny seeing all the people that run high 12s and 13s bragging on how fast you are. Dont get me wrong - Im not saying its not an accomplishment, I respect anyone that makes their engine faster, whether its running 16s or 10s, but dont act like you're fast in your 13 second car.
I wish I had a slow 13 second car.....Fastest car I've ever owned has been my Saturn SC2. With a 1/4 mile time of 18.2 at 78mph
Originally posted by PontiacMan: Ive yet to see any of the ricers here post any kind of time slip. Newsflash, 13s and 14s arent fast. 12s arent that fast either, but you're getting there.
I dont brag I have a "fast" car. When you can run 11s, you're getting fast. Its funny seeing all the people that run high 12s and 13s bragging on how fast you are. Dont get me wrong - Im not saying its not an accomplishment, I respect anyone that makes their engine faster, whether its running 16s or 10s, but dont act like you're fast in your 13 second car.
I hope your not reffering to me as a ricer, I have tinted tail lights, clear corners and window tint as my entire list of exterior mods...
Also, I never said my car was fast, not once. I think its "quick" but by no means fast.
If you were asking me for time slips I do not have any, the car was down with bad valve seals and a bad clutch for a while soon after I bought it so i wouldn't have passed tech at the track with the smoke and after I swapped heads and got a new flywheel and clutch I decided to go ahead and do a turbo, intercooler, and injector upgrade as well as some other little parts and by the time the rest of my parts get here (external wg, slim fan, ect) the tracks will be closed. Sorry to dissapoint you.
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Originally posted by PontiacMan: I built an engine for my firebird that runs low 12s in a car that weighs almost 4000 lbs on street tires, and will last a LONG time...for less than $2000. Can you say the same?
Chevy engines are cheap to build, I look through summit and compared to what it costs to do forged internals in my car you can do it twice over in a gm engine. Thankfully however, mitsu way overbuilt the engine in these cars and unless your knockin on 10's you really need nothing more than a big turbo, big IC, big injectors, a set of cams, a fuel computer, and to know how to drive and tune to go fast. I posted a link earlier but the forum is down, Jay Haas went mid 12's for ~$2,000 including the price of the car. Not too shabby...
I personally would NEVER, and have never video taped a race. Think about it, you get pulled over, INSTANT evidence against you.
Maybe Im just paranoid. Besides, most videos you see of races online are about as exciting as watching paint dry. Go to a track if you want to see exciting races.
------------------ 1987 Fiero - 2.5L, auto tranny, stock 1970 Firebird - built 455+.030, lots 'o mods
Mine is a "stock GM" engine But I dont think it is a good idea to race on the street, so I will take it to a strip to see what it will do. That way I can post real time slips and vidio. I hope to race a "ricer" some day but they are just about gone from this area. Just a fad? I have been driving around town for a wile but no one has even tried to race me.
2,000.00 for an 11 second DSM? Which engine are you talking about using, the cast pistons in the six bolt, or the weak rods and walking crank in the seven bolt? Or how about the five speed transmission? Lot's of people think that you can just slap on a big turbo and some injectors and you'll hit tens. Question, how many of you actually built these setups that you are talking about? I can ask this because I have. In fact two of them, one six bolt setup and one seven bolt setup. Both in 2nd gen cars, a 95 TSi fwd and a 97 GSX. These cars are so unreliable once they break into the high twelves, if you're lucky you don't break something first like the tranny. I think that they are pretty good performers for slightly modifying but once you get past a turbo like the 16g, you run into some serious reliability issues. I have used a T25, 16g, 14b, T3/t4 .60 trim, and a 13b. And I think that the best reliability and performance is with the 16g as far as just bolt-on with fuel and tuning. Although many people have blown their engine with just the 14b in the first gen thanks to the cast pistons. And speaking of 2,000.00 dollars, how about grassroots motorsports this year. Read about that ten second Nova and the mid eleven second sbc 280z all bought under two grand including car. Ed
2,000.00 for an 11 second DSM? Which engine are you talking about using, the cast pistons in the six bolt, or the weak rods and walking crank in the seven bolt? Or how about the five speed transmission? Lot's of people think that you can just slap on a big turbo and some injectors and you'll hit tens. Question, how many of you actually built these setups that you are talking about? I can ask this because I have. In fact two of them, one six bolt setup and one seven bolt setup. Both in 2nd gen cars, a 95 TSi fwd and a 97 GSX. These cars are so unreliable once they break into the high twelves, if you're lucky you don't break something first like the tranny. I think that they are pretty good performers for slightly modifying but once you get past a turbo like the 16g, you run into some serious reliability issues. I have used a T25, 16g, 14b, T3/t4 .60 trim, and a 13b. And I think that the best reliability and performance is with the 16g as far as just bolt-on with fuel and tuning. Although many people have blown their engine with just the 14b in the first gen thanks to the cast pistons. And speaking of 2,000.00 dollars, how about grassroots motorsports this year. Read about that ten second Nova and the mid eleven second sbc 280z all bought under two grand including car. Ed
The pistons have nothing to do with it, its a tuning issues if thier melting pistons with a 14b. The stock injectors are tiny and people try to push them too far because thier cheap and dont want to do stuff the right way and buy bigger injectors. Obviously you cant just put on a big turbo, injectors and an ic and expect it to be fast, you have to know wtf your doing or the car will break. If you aren't out launching off every stop light with 4 racing slicks and slamming the gears around so hard your breaking shift forks the tranny's are fine. You have to know how to drive and holding it on the rev limiter and side stepping the clutch isn't knowing how to drive, its having a death wish. I'm sick of people bitching about the reliabity of these cars, they are old, parts wear out and break when you add more power and especially if you try to do stuff with modding before basic maitance stuff.
Anybody can bolt a turbo on, but can you make it work with your setup, do you have the right supporting mods, correct fuel tuning, engine in good shape, mileage, how was it taken care of before you got it. I never had one problem with either of my dsm's aside from me getting the wrong axle shaft from the parts store when the cv joints went out and it popping out on me while i was driving down the road on my laser. The talon had bad valve seals and a bad clutch, the car had 188k miles on it when i got it and it had a t-belt accident before i bought it because nobody wants to pay to keep up on the maitance so the belt broke and they replaced it with a used head that had bad valve seals. The clutch that was in it was some cheap taiwanese pos that had been replaced previously and was obiviously the cheapest clutch they could find to put in it at the time and did not hold up to awd launches at all. My laser was on its factory original clutch for 175k miles before it finally started to have some chatter.
delaware fiero. how is me buying a used eclipse any diferent than you buying a used fiero? you wanna go dollar for dollar on 11s or 10s? you won't win this argument.
Like I said before this is a FIERO FORUM. So take that import crap outside.
11s or 10s sure. But how streetable is yours gonna be? The tubbed drag RICE runs what 9s? 8s? So if you can have daily driver RICE mobile turning 11s and 10s then more power to ya.
I agree there are fast imorts out there. But those are tuners to me. ya know guys that actually know what is fast. Im referring and the original post was most likely talking about the FARTCANS, HUGE WINGS, 10 Gauges, 100 stickers, etc. Those people need help.
But it still doesnt make since to me people on here beating that RICE drum. And say that they are a Fiero Fan???? Maybe its just me.
------------------ Bottles are for babies. Dont let your babies grow up to be RICERS. Its up to YOU to prevent RICE.
Like I said before this is a FIERO FORUM. So take that import crap outside.
11s or 10s sure. But how streetable is yours gonna be? The tubbed drag RICE runs what 9s? 8s? So if you can have daily driver RICE mobile turning 11s and 10s then more power to ya.
I agree there are fast imorts out there. But those are tuners to me. ya know guys that actually know what is fast. Im referring and the original post was most likely talking about the FARTCANS, HUGE WINGS, 10 Gauges, 100 stickers, etc. Those people need help.
But it still doesnt make since to me people on here beating that RICE drum. And say that they are a Fiero Fan???? Maybe its just me.
i am a fiero fan, im just not as close minded as some people. you want to see a non tubbed streetable dsm, look no farther than john shepherds car. hot rod magazine did a feature on it. not bad for a "ricer" oh yeah, and it runs 8s.
------------------ 88 fiero coupe. 2.8/5 spd (last driven sept 02) 90 eclipse. 4g63t, the replacement for displacement
Originally posted by trigger: i am a fiero fan, im just not as close minded as some people. you want to see a non tubbed streetable dsm, look no farther than john shepherds car. hot rod magazine did a feature on it. not bad for a "ricer" oh yeah, and it runs 8s.
you completely avoided the part of his statement where he said those are not ricers to him they are tuners..
for someone so open minded, you sure are close minded on what people mean by "rice"
perhaps i should qualify my statement by saying i also drive a subaru, and rice is not just imported there is plenty of domestic rice
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-25-2004).]
The GSX had 50,000 miles and the Talon had 122,000 miles. Both prematurely failed transmissions after modding. The talon's transmission was redone twice. And it had an ACT 2600 LBS clutch in it. I never had slicks on the front and tried to race from a slow roll. In fact I have a video of the car in motion if you would like to see it. And these parts were not old or worn out. This car had the 14b and 6-bolt in it. I used the pistons from the 95 engine seeing the stock 6-bolt piston was melted! Care to see the picture of it? These are all common problems in the DSM community and if you own one there is no denying it whether the parts are brand new or used.
Both cars had the right stuff. 550cc injectors and AFC with the 16G. As for the t3/t4 it had 660cc injectors and dsmlink. I do believe in proper tuning and I built my engines properly. I have an LT1 taken apart and I have a six bolt taken apart. I've compared pistons and it was shocking how poorly built the dsm piston was in comparison to the LT1's. Especially when these pistons work off of totally different atmospheric pressures. That is why I switched to the 95 pistons. As far as the link goes, who knows, maybe the engine was using 1995 pistons in it. Still stock right? And if he was using stock pistons he had luck on his side for those few runs before it blew the head gasket. Another problem that is a major pain and almost always happening.
As for the GSX, it had occasional 4-5K launches. Nothing that I didn't do in my 86 2m6 four speed. And if you don't believe that, come to Chicago and I will show you. That car handled it with no burnted clutch or driveline failures. Now as far as slapping a v8 on it I'm not sure yet seeing every car has their problems. What are you running in your two cars? Have you done any mods to them?
And If you want to get good times you have to launch it or you just can't rely on trap speed to pull you through. So much for AWD, high rpm's and big turbos. But you're right, they come in handy when you want to take off hard once in a while before they break and are in the garage again. Ed
seans talon is modded. it has a maft, safc II, 255, tdo6 20g, fmic, 3" exhaust, 880cc injectors, keydiver stage 3 chip, act 2900, and a fidanza 8lb flywheel. that should cover most of it.
i've never heard of dsms having piston problems unless a lot of knock was present. under severe boost creep i was seeing 20+ psi on a ported and clipped big 16g on stock injectors and it was fine. i launch the car at 6k on a regular basis w/a 2600 and fidanza flywheel and it sees the rev limiter on a weekly basis with no problems. my fiero took the launches well enough, but burnt up a lot of clutches, granted they were cheap, but that like bast*rd hooked. it hated life when it saw the limiter though.
[This message has been edited by trigger (edited 10-25-2004).]
delaware fiero. how is me buying a used eclipse any diferent than you buying a used fiero? you wanna go dollar for dollar on 11s or 10s? you won't win this argument.
I WILL win that argument! and i'll be able to drive it home to. Oh and i will keep everyone posted.
Fieros are slow. 13's are relativly quick, 12's are quick, 11's are getting fast. I run 11's. I have alot more than 2 grand invested. Different strokes for different folks.
And thats all there is to it, because I said so
Just wanted to butt in a little.
------------------ 1986 GT, LT1/4T60E http://hometown.aol.com/ptfiero/index.html On the forum https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/045554.html more in depth look http://dtcc.cz28.com/LT1build/index.htm
I'm starting a 2.2L Ecotec swap project with turbo and nitrous (shooting for about 400HP, for starters, then MAYBE 700HP, only because FieroTurbo presses it) around January (If I get my new job, maybe sooner then that!), and also beefing up suspension with WCF parts, then, rocker panels from Archie, as well as many other fiberglass parts from Fiero Warehouse. A friend of mine is a video journalist and I'm talking to him about making video's of me racing, doing 180's, 360's, you name it 8). I'll probably host them on my own site mirrored to my FTP server for everyone's enjoyment, kind of like my own version of antirice.com but PRO FIERO, ha- hahaha. There's a lot of power in Norman, and it’s not hard to find. I'm in high school so there's a lot of kids with 350's and stock 4c & V6 Body Kitted Honda's that think they're something special, but there IS real competition here as well, I know MANY good roads for drag strips and handling endurance, as well as empty lots for those 180's and 360's. And even when I lose, and I expect to, I will still share the footage. I look forward to shooting lots of footage for you guys. And I hope everything goes as planned All in favor please say something; encouragement is only going to help speed things up! email me at vampeternal@sbcglobal.net !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A friend of mine drives a 99 Steeda Mustang, V6, auto, cold air intake, and about 260+ HP. A stock Impreza took him to school. Why? Because the 04's are getting 80-100 in about 3 seconds. And all you folks want to compair old technology to new, its crap. Like saying, "my overclocked Pentium III will run better then your FX-53!" It makes no sense, but its when you're taking that FX-53 chip or Intel's new 3.4GHz chip and putting a whole new motherboard and crap in your computer, that you can fairly compair them.
I tried to stay out of this, but of course I have to take a jab while I'm at it.
trigger or whoever it was that started this mindless bullshit waste of time, by assuming the topic was directed towards tuners (the fast imports) you automatically claimed all imports as rice. He was simply referring to those who spend more on looks, than on performance. You speak so boldly about narrow minded people, yet you yourself are one of the most narrow minded by assuming he was corning tuners.
let me spell it out for you Rice = Appearance before Performance... these only apply to those cars, imported or not... that invest hundreds/thousands on non function scoops, 5" exhaust tips without a full exhaust tune, 1' high alum. spoiler that hinders FWD cars more then help, stickers of every brand of bullshit so that you look like a sponsored "ricer".
Can you tell the difference now? between a ricer and a tuner?
There are all sorts of ricers here, imports and domestics, they make their car look fast when it is a worthless piece of slow **** .... have I "killed" ricers? you bet, ricers outweigh the number of true tuners.
Now how about we get back to the topic at hand and give the import domestic bullshit a rest shall we? I for one think if some of you import owners, aren't going to do anything but stir **** up on our forum, then get lost
[This message has been edited by Nebiros88 (edited 10-25-2004).]
why are you guys so crazy about ricer kills? if its fart cans and decals on a civic that runs 16's what is the big deal about that? Is that even a big accomplishment? I would rather hear of some domestic kills. like the corvette, camaro, trans am, mustang owners that so arrogant and cocky. god, especially those ugly new GTO's. after all imports are underdogs just as fieros are. matter of fact i think im gonna make another thread on nothing but domestic kills. had a 91 non-turbo MR2, long considering a 3SGTE swap until i looked at auto cross times. pretty discouraging that that motor put out so much turbo lag that the naturally aspirated 5SFE base model majority of the time did better than the turbo model on tracks. I'm sure that's not the story for all imports that boost, but having a turbo as a mains source of power can be a great strength and a great weakness too
Did anyone see a timeslip, road test, or performance comparison to the Fiero in that link? I didn't. Besides, you should have used this (probably one of very, very few japanese) import in your arguments to start with, not brand new technology against something built 20 years ago as an economy car so it could make it into production. The Fiero was just getting started and on its feet when GM (Chevrolet) had the whole thing stopped. You can't possibly be serious to compare stock for stock this car with some turbo tuner car that had no limits on what power it could produce, even though I'm sure the V6 Fiero would STILL hold its own.
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[This message has been edited by Key Of David (edited 10-26-2004).]
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