Maybe I should simply turn it on and see what everybody thinks about it. I can always revert back to the old way of presenting the ratings.
And then there are the people who understand it's best to live and let live. They are the people who understand you're not a coward for walking an extra block to avoid a bad neighborhood. They are the people who only voice their opinion when it actually matters. They are the people that actually listen to others, and sometimes do things against their own principles but "for the greater good".
Now of course, everyone has the right to decide for their own to which of these groups they want to belong. But I'm sure Confucius would have said "He who chooses to jump in water, should not complain about getting wet."
yeah give it a try...
I like to think I am an easy going guy, try to stick up for someone who is just getting picked on and tend to call out people who are just starting trouble. Generally i just want to help people and be helped..
I quite agree. It's one thing to disagree, its another to just be rude and insult people. I try not to let things get that far, because I think that if they are REALLY a fiero fan there must be some kind of redeaming quality to them.
But this is an ongoing probelem on all message boards unfortunately. Some people just have to act tough and try to push people around, but like my Father in-law always said "A tough guy huh? Yeah, my wife is tough on the phone too!"
I like the rating system as well but I feel that it needs a lot more accountability. People shouldn't be able to just rate someone for the heck of it because they don't like their tone, attitude or comments etc then remain annonymous and hide. One should be able to see who rated them and why just like on ebay. This allows everyone who drops a nasty rating get to be viewed by all and see the comment(s) as the why they posted negatively. This goes the same for positive. I think there would be alot more neutral ratings out there if this system worked. Just my opinion which I don't tend to drop very often.
I'm an over 50 guy who joined this forum because I saw that there were a lot of really good people out there in the Fiero community who want to help others with their personal toy - their Fiero. This forum is the main reason I bought a Fiero. Newbies like me get into this hobby because they feel somewhat welcomed by the help they recieve. When you get to meet a large group of Fiero enthusiasts over a weekend cruise like I did this past weekend, you begin to feel that you can accomplish anything because you know someone out there in the Fiero community is right behind you to help you out with whatever problem you have which is what I believe Cliff intended his forum to be. It becomes disheartening to see the negative, nasty, and downright rude stuff that seems to be showing up more and more.
A little more respect please!
Arns, I'm with you on this one bud! Cliff, whatever you feel is a better way to deal with this stuff, go right ahead - the only ones that will have a problem with it will be ones who ARE the problem!
I'm an over 50 guy who joined this forum because I saw that there were a lot of really good people out there in the Fiero community who want to help others with their personal toy - their Fiero. This forum is the main reason I bought a Fiero. Newbies like me get into this hobby because they feel somewhat welcomed by the help they recieve. When you get to meet a large group of Fiero enthusiasts over a weekend cruise like I did this past weekend, you begin to feel that you can accomplish anything because you know someone out there in the Fiero community is right behind you to help you out with whatever problem you have which is what I believe Cliff intended his forum to be. It becomes disheartening to see the negative, nasty, and downright rude stuff that seems to be showing up more and more.
A little more respect please!
Arns, I'm with you on this one bud! Cliff, whatever you feel is a better way to deal with this stuff, go right ahead - the only ones that will have a problem with it will be ones who ARE the problem!
.....This forum is the main reason I bought a Fiero. Newbies like me get into this hobby because they feel somewhat welcomed by the help they recieve. When you get to meet a large group of Fiero enthusiasts over a weekend cruise like I did this past weekend, you begin to feel that you can accomplish anything because you know someone out there in the Fiero community is right behind you to help you out with whatever problem you have......
Absolutely! This forum is a great help to those of us that need it, and it's full of great people. There are many, meny members that will go out of their way to get you any information you need, and in quite a few cases, come and physically help you with a problem you are having. I've seen that and been a part of that quite a few times, and it's wonderful. When you get together with the Fiero clubs and outings it's a great show of what can be done with our cars and what great people own them.
We want everyone comfortable to be here. The 'nasty stuff' is one of the things that we cannot totally avoid because it is the internet, and we can't totally prevent some of the problems that are inherent in these kinds of boards, but we try. That's usually where the problems lie, and that has to be expected. It's not an excuse for these people, just a reason for the problems. We do our best, and that's why the rating system comes into question now and then.
Well , said Gaas88, I agree. Maybe Cliff could post their age there too , LOL Just joking guys and gals You know tho , I can go to a chatroom and automatically tell about the age of some people by they're language and actions. BTW , I'm in the over 50 gang
Absolutely! This forum is a great help to those of us that need it, and it's full of great people. There are many, meny members that will go out of their way to get you any information you need, and in quite a few cases, come and physically help you with a problem you are having. I've seen that and been a part of that quite a few times, and it's wonderful. When you get together with the Fiero clubs and outings it's a great show of what can be done with our cars and what great people own them.
We want everyone comfortable to be here. The 'nasty stuff' is one of the things that we cannot totally avoid because it is the internet, and we can't totally prevent some of the problems that are inherent in these kinds of boards, but we try. That's usually where the problems lie, and that has to be expected. It's not an excuse for these people, just a reason for the problems. We do our best, and that's why the rating system comes into question now and then.
Take care
Mark
Wow Mark, that is so touching. What you say here is so true and I am sure that many on here are also agreeing with this. I like what you say here as i am sure others do as well..but...it is coming from you. Someone who has taken it upon himself to moderate the forum to a heated point and try and get many threads that you decide you don't personally like into the trash. Anyone that remembers all your insulting and trash can causing hurtfull comments of late in some of mine will realize that though you can easily talk the talk you obviously don't always take your own advice and walk the walk. You have even started a hate thread against me. You say it is something we cannot always avoid. Did it ever occur to you that it might be a bit better here maybe if you wouldn't do it yourself?
Now, I agree 100% with everyone that has said that this forum is an awesome forum overall and the nasty stuff is just a small percentage of an overal great place. But this thread was started to talk about that small percent which says that it has become more of an issue with more members as of late. This thread is about the growing nasty people we all have sadly seen pop up over a period of time and so that is what I am responding to. I would be considered I guess an older member now having joined back in 2000, and many of us remember the forum when it wasn't like this. We remember when a thread could be started about any subject or kind of car and there was never a second thought about it turning into a flame fest by a few who decided that they just diodn't like the car, the person, the clothes or whatever the BS excuse might be. Of course as more and more members join and the forum grows even bigger as it should, we leave behind the old and have to realize that with more people comes more chances for disagreements and so also sadly more chances of people just being nasty at times. That is the reality of course but that doesn't mean we have to always stand for it and things like the rating stystem is Cliffs attempt to try and help us with this growing problem. I would really like to start a new thread and continue Jordans Fieros build up, but I have held off because I know to well the chances are very high that the same hurtfull members will once again jump in the thread at some point and successfully ruin it. Why should I think things will be any different now after seeing it happen over and over in the past? I guess now like in retail, sometimes the bad stuff is remembered a lot easier sometimes than the good stuff. Hopefully "some" on here will now see that an attitude change is needed and we will have less of these hijacked threads happening no matter who starts the thread or the subject.
[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 08-16-2004).]
would it be a bad idea to give the thread starter the ability to moderate that thread? to delete posts, block users, etc? people might stop trolling for trouble if they knew their posts would just get deleted
......but...it is coming from you. Someone who has taken it upon himself to moderate the forum to a heated point and try and get many threads that you decide you don't personally like into the trash. Anyone that remembers all your insulting and trash can causing hurtfull comments of late in some of mine will realize that though you can easily talk the talk you obviously don't always take your own advice and walk the walk.......
I'm a moderator? Cool! Since there are quite a few who agree with my stance about you, how can I be a moderator? This is a forum of a group, and a lot of the group think you are doing things incorrectly, such as posting too many pics of Jordan's car, lying about certain other issues, and basically being ignorant of the fact that you cannot understand that when someone points out an issue with you, you won't accept the fact that you might be wrong. Now, you are taking this thread down and unfortunately, I have to respond because you are again calling me out. Fine. I'll be happy to post links to all of the threads that you have messed up with your actions, and I'll be happy to post the link to Jordan's Custom Compact thread also. I can stand behind all of my actions, whereas you cannot.
Now, you sit there with your holier-than-thou attitude, Mr. Victim of the " Oh, my thread was ruined!!! " and still cannot grasp the fact that you have upset quite a few people but won't take any responsibility.....yet you'll be happy to dish it out. Get over yourself, there, Steve.....if you really need attention this bad, you need to see one of those counselors at the school you work at.
When you decide to leave me out of threads like this is when this will end. As I said before, it's all up to you.
I apologize to those of you that are not a part of this, but I will not let this troll get away with his insensitivity and grandstanding.
Have a nice day.
Mark
[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 08-16-2004).]
Hi Arn. Great thread and I'm in. This forum is a great place. It's put me in touch with a lot of great and helpful people, yourself included. It's a good feeling to come to a place like this as a "Fiero Rookie" and not get treated like a rookie, but as someone who is welcome in the ranks of fellow enthusiasts. I belong to a number of forums for various hobbies and it's the same everywhere. Whether it's radio controlled jets, or fieros, or hockey there will always be varied opinions on everything.
The way I see it, if someone is proud of something, let them be proud. It's their car and they might like it. If you don't like it, don't read it. If someone is doing something wrong, you can offer help (without being negative or insulting). If they don't want help, leave it alone and don't waste your time trying.
PS. Linenoise... what's a Booch? lol... jk. Your car looked great this weekend in Lambeth.
------------------ Jay Brintnell Owner / Design Lead WordMark.ca Communications
[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited 08-16-2004).]
And it was mentioned earlier, but I think it bears repeating because not many people have noticed. If you are getting nasy PMs, all you have to do is click on "IGNORE" and poof - no more PMs from that person.
Originally posted by Her86GT: People shouldn't be able to just rate someone for the heck of it because they don't like their tone, attitude or comments etc then remain annonymous and hide. One should be able to see who rated them and why just like on ebay. This allows everyone who drops a nasty rating get to be viewed by all and see the comment(s) as the why they posted negatively. Becky
Here here! I agree with this COMPLETELY. If some doodoo head wants to post something completely out of line, I want him or her to know about it. In the same respect, I want to know why I have the negatives I have. Makes sense to me at least?
That was very well said Cliff - and BTW - I like the new ratings bar - it's neat!
As someone who rarely gets involved in BS I must say that I rate a lot of people but very seldom give out negs.
I usually only give out negatives to someone who repeatedly hijacks threads without any basis (think Dude16) just to be a moron or to someone who repeatedly gets on my nerves by posting ridiculous stuff over and over (very seldom does this happen). There are some people who seem to go out of their way to bring attention upon themselves even if it is attention that they know will be negative, yet they persist. I get annoyed when I see it and if I see it enough - out comes the red. And I can't think of the last time I did this so it is probably not anyone who is even on the forum anymore.
I think we end up getting into nasty posts a lot because people are not careful in wording their thoughts, and there is also a lack of tolerance from people when someone does post something that is not worded too well. Its easy to disagree with something by being rude or insulting, but its not as easy to state a valid argument while respectfully disagreeing with an opposing opinion. We get a lot of the former, not much of the latter. When it happens, the original poster then gets upset because he/she feels attacked, and responds in kind. The thread degenerates from there.
Its not going to go away. We are a very diverse forum, with people of all ages, backgrounds, education levels, religious and political beliefs, etc etc on the forum and because of it they not only will disagree on things, but they will also communicate those disagreements on different levels.
If people are more careful about how they argue their points, and are a little more tolerant, or at least thick skinned about some of the not nice responses we can cut down on the flames and negativity. Its not going to go away, but it could be better.
This is a good thread too. These issues are exactly what that ratings button is for, and overall I think the ratings system has been very affective. It seems to me the nastyness on the forum is a lot lower than it was in the weeks leading up to the ratings system and the worst offenders that do not change their ways end up getting tossed.
Mark I have never lied and you have never proven any of your insulting accusations. This has never become a Jordans or Fiero5 forum any more than it has ever become a Kameo Kid, CoolBlue, Californiua Kid, Skitime or any other members forum. This is a Fiero forum for Fiero owners and lovers. However.. Obviously Mark has lots of green and I do not so I guess insults and thread hijacking are actually ok to the majority of this forum even though they seem to say otherwise. The forum has spoken by showing me a ratings bar meter that shows how they feel about what has happened, and though members in this thread and in others in the past like Coolblues for another recent example may say one thing, the ratings meter certainly says a different story. Maybe this isn't necessarily a welcome forum for all Fieros, but possibly only welcome for certain Fieros?
Thanks Arns85GT. This has certainly been a very interesting thread to say the least
[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 08-16-2004).]
That's one shortcoming of the way ratings are presented (which BTW, I'm working on). The way your ratings are displayed is that if you have one more negative rating than positives, the red bar will "appear". That's also true for the other way around. One more positive than negatives, the red will disappear and the green appears. So the problem is that if you have just about as much negatives as positives, the ratings bar will swing between red and green.
I already have a new way of presenting the ratings ready (which gives a much better view of someone's rating), but my only problem is that it doesn't really fit within the forum's lay-out (cosmetically).
Maybe I should simply turn it on and see what everybody thinks about it. I can always revert back to the old way of presenting the ratings.
Concerning Arns' original post, the problem is that there are a few people here dying for attention (which in itself is pretty sad). They can be banned over and over, but will return using different usernames. The problem with these people is that they will not change their behavior. Simply because they feel the only way they can get attention to themselves is by being rude and obnoxious (again, which is pretty sad in itself). They will always go against the flow. For some reason, they think that's the way to get ahead in life. These people can be categorized as "Trolls". They can be easily recognized, their ratingbar usually gets into the red in no time.
Then there are the people who simply have a very outspoken opinion. They aren't trolls. But they do lack some judgement IMO. They are the atheists that would walk into a church and shout the people there are all idiots for believing in God. They are the husbands that would tell their pregnant wifes they look fat. They are the people that don't realize that sometimes it's best to just suck it in. Those are the people that get upset if their ratingbar gets red for "just stating their opinion".
And then there are the people who understand it's best to live and let live. They are the people who understand you're not a coward for walking an extra block to avoid a bad neighborhood. They are the people who only voice their opinion when it actually matters. They are the people that actually listen to others, and sometimes do things against their own principles but "for the greater good".
Now of course, everyone has the right to decide for their own to which of these groups they want to belong. But I'm sure Confucius would have said "He who chooses to jump in water, should not complain about getting wet."
In theory the rating should be perfect. You're rated by your peers right? Nope!!! I've been wrongfully convicted and strung up by a SBC lynch mob carefully orchestrated and headed by a tag team of SBC owners. All because I championed the 4.9 and called out the ring leader on his incivility and constant use of personal insults in his post.
Maybe, I should put out a call for my 4.9 posse to get some ++'s to offset the SBC mobs ---'s
Go Fiqure.
[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 08-16-2004).]
Yeah, the rating sytem is certainly not perfect by any means. That is seen on any given day, in any given thread on many occassions. It has helped a lot as we have also seen to help clear out the truly bad seeds, but like anything that has some advantages, it will also have some disadvantages as wehave seen by some who know how to work the system. They can hit and run and usually not suffer much red at all. Obviously nothing is perfect. I still think that for the forum to truly be "self" moderated as Cliff has said he wants it to be, the forum has to be set up to allow the thread starter the ability to moderate their own threads. If you could delete a flamers post in your thread that doesn't do anything for the continuity, direction and spirit of the thread then it would certainly make the forum even that much better.This would however probably render the rating system almost useless then which is probably why Cliff is apparently so against it.
In theory the rating should be perfect. You're rated by your peers right? Nope!!! I've been wrongfully convicted and strung up by a SBC lynch mob carefully orchestrated and headed by a tag team of SBC owners. All because I championed the 4.9 and called out the ring leader on his incivility and constant use of personal insults in his post.
Maybe, I should put out a call for my 4.9 posse to get some ++'s to offset the SBC mobs ---'s
Maybe, I should put out a call for my 4.9 posse to get some ++'s to offset the SBC mobs ---'s
Go Fiqure.
Theres a 4.9 posse? Why am I picturing "revenge of the nerds"?
Sorry I tried soooooo hard to stay out of this thread. This thread called to me.....post on me....post on me...
Why the hell do i have so much negative? I only name-call when someone says something dumb. You can call me names if you want. The lack of dry sense of humor on here is only appreciated by the flood of PMs from my fanclub.
And those who PM me for tech info / advice and then "try" and slam me on the forum is appreciated too.
I know a few. They are my friends, and no, they aren't in a posse, and no, they don't go ditzing SBC guys. Both the SBC and 4.9 guys I know are gentlemen (and at least one lady)
Cliff's words were true.
Hmm..... maybe I should rate Cliff. After all, I've rated some 4.9 guys and and more than one SBC guy, so why not the moderator? He deserves a Positive in my view.
In theory the rating should be perfect. You're rated by your peers right? Nope!!! I've been wrongfully convicted and strung up by a SBC lynch mob carefully orchestrated and headed by a tag team of SBC owners. All because I championed the 4.9 and called out the ring leader on his incivility and constant use of personal insults in his post.
Maybe, I should put out a call for my 4.9 posse to get some ++'s to offset the SBC mobs ---'s
Go Fiqure.
Carefully orchestrated??? Strung up by a lynch mob??? Posse??? Wow, how do you sleep at night with all this drama in your life?
[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 08-16-2004).]
I still think that for the forum to truly be "self" moderated as Cliff has said he wants it to be, the forum has to be set up to allow the thread starter the ability to moderate their own threads. If you could delete a flamers post in your thread that doesn't do anything for the continuity, direction and spirit of the thread then it would certainly make the forum even that much better.This would however probably render the rating system almost useless then which is probably why Cliff is apparently so against it.
So anything you didn't like in "your" thread, you'd get rid of? Wouldn't that quickly get out of hand? Anybody that disagrees with you or questions something you say would be deleted? Yeah, that's a forum worth reading .
[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 08-16-2004).]
Yeah, the rating sytem is certainly not perfect by any means. That is seen on any given day, in any given thread on many occassions. It has helped a lot as we have also seen to help clear out the truly bad seeds, but like anything that has some advantages, it will also have some disadvantages as wehave seen by some who know how to work the system. They can hit and run and usually not suffer much red at all. Obviously nothing is perfect. I still think that for the forum to truly be "self" moderated as Cliff has said he wants it to be, the forum has to be set up to allow the thread starter the ability to moderate their own threads. If you could delete a flamers post in your thread that doesn't do anything for the continuity, direction and spirit of the thread then it would certainly make the forum even that much better.This would however probably render the rating system almost useless then which is probably why Cliff is apparently so against it.
Or delete a person's opinion you(this is the metaphoric you...not you in particular) disagree with, or delete someone that is calling you out for lying, cheating, stealing, being a bad person to buy from or any of the other 10,000 times when we can't always be "happy, cheery lovey, dovey Fiero owners" but have to get a touch mad. Yeah, thread moderators would be great. No more fights, or disagreements and at that point you might as well call it Fiero weblogs because the only thing you would read on the forum would be ass-kissing.
Maybe, I should put out a call for my 4.9 posse to get some ++'s to offset the SBC mobs ---'s
Go Fiqure.
"Your possee" are you on crack? Most of the 4.9 guys couldn't care less weather your here or not. This place is becoming more of a joke everyday. Way too many people around here or high on themselves. When you guys are all done arguing remember that you are fighting over a 20 year old car that most of the world thinks is a piece of crap. Get some perspective would ya.
"Your possee" are you on crack? Most of the 4.9 guys couldn't care less weather your here or not. This place is becoming more of a joke everyday. Way too many people around here or high on themselves. When you guys are all done arguing remember that you are fighting over a 20 year old car that most of the world thinks is a piece of crap. Get some perspective would ya.
Or delete a person's opinion you(this is the metaphoric you...not you in particular) disagree with, or delete someone that is calling you out for lying, cheating, stealing, being a bad person to buy from or any of the other 10,000 times when we can't always be "happy, cheery lovey, dovey Fiero owners" but have to get a touch mad. Yeah, thread moderators would be great. No more fights, or disagreements and at that point you might as well call it Fiero weblogs because the only thing you would read on the forum would be ass-kissing.
Maybe, I should put out a call for my 4.9 posse to get some ++'s to offset the SBC mobs ---'s
Go Fiqure.
"Your possee" are you on crack? Most of the 4.9 guys couldn't care less weather your here or not. This place is becoming more of a joke everyday. Way too many people around here or high on themselves. When you guys are all done arguing remember that you are fighting over a 20 year old car that most of the world thinks is a piece of crap. Get some perspective would ya.
------------------ The rebirth of 72vinman
Yo, I.A. it's called metaphor see the following....
Main Entry: met·a·phor Pronunciation: 'me-t&-"for also -f&r Function: noun Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French metaphore, from Latin metaphora, from Greek, from metapherein to transfer, from meta- + pherein to bear -- more at BEAR 1 : a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money); broadly : figurative language -- compare SIMILE 2 : an object, activity, or idea treated as a metaphor : SYMBOL 2 - met·a·phor·ic /"me-t&-'for-ik, -'fär-/ or met·a·phor·i·cal /-i-k&l/ adjective - met·a·phor·i·cal·ly /-i-k(&-)lE/ adverb
Carefully orchestrated??? Strung up by a lynch mob??? Posse??? Wow, how do you sleep at night with all this drama in your life?
