I know it's "on hold" right now, but the whole thing has me really concerned about me and my families future for various reasons.
I've got friends and family that have got the jab already, and others that won't for ay reason. I can understand both sides on that.
I just want to work and be left alone. I highly suspect it's all political at this point and getting any shot is really useless (this is just an opinion).... Because BOTH sides are spreading so much bull around, I will probably never know the truth. I'm really not afraid of getting sick, I'm less afraid of dying. I am afraid of not being able to pay my house payment or feed my wife.
With very few exceptions, I am whole heartedly against mandating vaccinations. But, I do believe most folks should be vaccinated against COVID. Most folks have made up their minds and will either suffer through COVID or die trying. I view it as their decision. I simply hope they don't bring COVID home to their friends and loved ones. The vast majority of folks that get infected with COVID will survive as the data has proven, those with immunity issues, those with obesity issues, those with aging issues IMHO should get immunized with one of the EUA vaccines. But, that's their choice. I got my vaccination and am glad I did. Don't care if other's do or don't.
You're correct about a lot of lies being spread. I'm quite sure there will be several told if this thread lasts very long.
Pretty heavily against it. Especially now, when data suggests that the shot is only sorta effective for a relatively short period of time, and you are just as likely to spread it if you have had the shot, the effects of the shot itself can make you feel like you've got a bad flu. or cause other health issues.
So far, due to the mandate, we have 10% less teachers, 20-30 percent less cops and firefighters, and they want to fine companies 14 grand per employee if they don't require folks to be vaccinated.
My take is that the government should make the tests available for free. You test daily before you leave the house. And if you test +, stay home that day at least. its very easy to do the test, you don't hafta stick the q-tip into your brain...
Haven't read too much about the pill, but if it has few side effects, give everyone the pill for a month.
and take your vitamin D, just because you are probably deficient in it.
and that's all I have to say about that...
[This message has been edited by TheDigitalAlchemist (edited 11-07-2021).]
You're correct about a lot of lies being spread. I'm quite sure there will be several told if this thread lasts very long.
Rams
No...really?
OK, now that I've got that out of my system...
I am not a medical professional, so it would be foolish and arrogant of me to debate the vaccine. Also, my status is nobody's business though some will infer, based on my political stance, that they know more than they do.
That being said, it is my impression that most who reside in this country do not trust the U.S. government or their neighbors. The mandate makes many (including me) uneasy.
Originally posted by williegoat: That being said, it is my impression that most who reside in this country do not trust the U.S. government or their neighbors.
Pretty heavily against it. Especially now, when data suggests that the shot is only sorta effective for a relatively short period of time, and you are just as likely to spread it if you have had the shot, the effects of the shot itself can make you feel like you've got a bad flu. or cause other health issues.
Death is a known side effect of the shots.
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My take is that the government should make the tests available for free. You test daily before you leave the house. And if you test +, stay home that day at least. its very easy to do the test, you don't hafta stick the q-tip into your brain...
Big Pharma and congressional stock investors would agree. I do not.
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Haven't read too much about the pill, but if it has few side effects, give everyone the pill for a month.
No way in God's creation am I taking that or trusting gov liars.
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and take your vitamin D, just because you are probably deficient in it.
and that's all I have to say about that...
Totally agree. Dose with Vit D and add C to that. If you aren't in the Sunshine for several hours daily, like most people in the winter, dose with Vit D. And C.
Just a general comment to all: if you know anything about musicians in the club scene (or restaurant workers anywhere) then you know they love smoking. They pass it around to anyone in arms reach. If they aren't dropping like flies then what does that tell us? I personally know several who have had Covid with and without the shots. They smoke and share. Many of these people they share with are older people in their 60s and even 70s. Some have had it. Some without the shots.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-07-2021).]
Countless lives lost, futures flushed down the drain. No one is to "blame" Those that knew got rich when "peasants" lost everything. I want to be past this as much as the next "person" but we have no idea where this is going. No one has been made responsible. Just let it run its course and those left standing can get back in line.
So you know what Mandate this you ****. I'm tired of this crime syndicate that has taken control of our government. **** you that's why.
My girlfriend is very much against the vaccine, hates the idea and doesn't want to put things in her body that she doesn't know what is in it or what the long term effects will be. I would rather pass myself as the entire time I have gone and taken the flu shot it has not done anything for me, if anything I have been sicker. That said we do feel that trying to get past this is important for everyone on this globe. So both of us got the vaccine, frankly I have not said or participated in the other treads as its none of anyone's business.
Now we are told that even if you get the vaccine you can spread Covid, even if you received the vaccine you should still stay put and not go outside. They have paralyzed my girlfriend with this crap, and now they are saying that boosters will be required. Follow the money, who is getting rich off Covid? This is just one more chance for those in power to expand their wealth on the backs of the "tax" farms that we have become.
So if you read all of that then no I am not for any kind of mandates, they get away with this what is next?
Countless lives lost, futures flushed down the drain. No one is to "blame" Those that knew got rich when "peasants" lost everything. I want to be past this as much as the next "person" but we have no idea where this is going. No one has been made responsible. Just let it run its course and those left standing can get back in line.
So you know what Mandate this you ****. I'm tired of this crime syndicate that has taken control of our government. **** you that's why.
That needs to be printed out and nailed to doors all across these fruited plains.
So if you read all of that then no I am not for any kind of mandates, they get away with this what is next?
There is truth in this......Even though I do believe most folks should get vaccinated, I do not support mandating vaccinations (with a very few exceptions).
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Now we are told that even if you get the vaccine you can spread Covid, even if you received the vaccine you should still stay put and not go outside.
Who says "Even if you received the vaccine you should still stay put and not go outside"..?
I've seen and heard that your receiving the vaccine significantly reduces the chances that you will suffer the worst or nearly the worst that can come from being infected by Covid, that it reduces your chances of having even an asymptomatic or mild case of Covid, and that it reduces the chances that you will communicate (spread) the Covid infection to anyone else, even if you, as a vaccinated individual, do get infected with Covid in a "breakthrough" infection.
Who says "Even if you received the vaccine you should still stay put and not go outside"..?
I've seen and heard that your receiving the vaccine significantly reduces the chances that you will suffer the worst or nearly the worst that can come from being infected by Covid, that it reduces your chances of having even an asymptomatic or mild case of Covid, and that it reduces the chances that you will communicate (spread) the Covid infection to anyone else, even if you, as a vaccinated individual, do get infected with Covid in a "breakthrough" infection.
It's about risk reduction, not risk elimination.
I heard it on the grapevine.
I've seen it in the media.
To be fair, you also heard that Byrd killed in self defense and that Trump colluded with Putin. Just putting things in perspective.
When ya smoke, you paralyze your cilia in your respiratory tract. That may have some benefit against Covid somehow. Or maybe your body is just used to being "at war" against the environment...
[This message has been edited by TheDigitalAlchemist (edited 11-08-2021).]
There are two separate issues here, public health and government overreach. The fact that they seem inextricably linked is testament to the high degree to which government has become involved in every aspect of our lives.
When ya smoke, you paralyze your cilia in your . That may have some benefit against Covid somehow. Or maybe your body is just used to being "at war" against the environment...
Who says "Even if you received the vaccine you should still stay put and not go outside"..?
I've seen and heard that your receiving the vaccine significantly reduces the chances that you will suffer the worst or nearly the worst that can come from being infected by Covid, that it reduces your chances of having even an asymptomatic or mild case of Covid, and that it reduces the chances that you will communicate (spread) the Covid infection to anyone else, even if you, as a vaccinated individual, do get infected with Covid in a "breakthrough" infection.
It's about risk reduction, not risk elimination.
I heard it on the grapevine.
I've seen it in the media.
Please the government and media can not make up their mind. People are so confused that they don't know. Me personally I would be all Florida over this but my girlfriend is 100% CA and I just want to find a balance. So you want a recent link? I can't give it to you, I don't watch the news anymore as I don't trust it. Who do we believe? I fall back on what I have always done, if you are sick stay home. Don't do stupid **** and you will be ok. But I love my GF and respect her wishes, I hope that the world can recover and we can get back to some balance.
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Please the government and media can not make up their mind. People are so confused that they don't know.
Stop paying attention to the likes of Tucker Carlson. He doesn't even represent a common perspective about the vaccines at his own (Fox) news channel, much less a common perspective at large. Pay attention to the right-wingers and anti-establishment types that went on TV, radio or social media to "diss" the Covid vaccines, then got sick with Covid themselves and admitted they were wrong about it.
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Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Me personally I would be all Florida over this but my girlfriend is 100% CA and I just want to find a balance. So you want a recent link? I can't give it to you, I don't watch the news anymore as I don't trust it. Who do we believe? I fall back on what I have always done, if you are sick stay home. Don't do stupid **** and you will be ok. But I love my GF and respect her wishes, I hope that the world can recover and we can get back to some balance.
Odds are, most people will be "OK." Even if they don't get vaccinated. But their odds of being "OK" are even better if they take one of the Covid vaccines.
It sounds like your GF is apprehensive because of the relative newness or novelty of the Covid vaccines--although the vaccines have now been going into arms for about an entire year, if memory serves me.
I keep in mind the relative newness or novelty of the Covid disease.
I've had the two-dose Moderna vaccine (with no side effects or any other negativity on my part, about the experience) and think I will get a Covid booster early in 2022, about 8 months after the second of the two Moderna shots that went into my arm.
Do I know what was in the syringe when I got the Moderna vaccine?
Not exactly. I've read about it in the non-specialist media. That the Moderna and Pfizer "MRNA" kinds of vaccines are being described in certain quarters as some kind of genetic or DNA "therapy" is--in my opinion--a canard.
I am due for another Tetanus (TDAP, I think, or is it TADP?) inoculation. Do I know what's going to be in that syringe? Not exactly. It's a vaccine that has a longer history than any of the Covid vaccines, but do I know that the formulation has not been changed recently? "Tweaked" as it were? Not really.
The Pfizer Covid vaccine has been fully authorized by the FDA. It's not being administered to the adult population under an Emergency Use Authorization anymore.
I expect the Moderna and J&J vaccines will be fully authorized by the FDA and take their place on the bartender's shelf of fully FDA-authorized vaccines for the adult population soon. It takes a long time for the "red tape" of dotting the eyes and crossing the tees.
"Prove me wrong" as one of the other forum members has had a penchant for saying.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-07-2021).]
Why make it harder than it has to be? Just listen to the CDC, Fauci, fedgov and similar foreign entities. The story keeps changing. They changed definitions to pretend this is a pandemic and they have vaccines.
The experimental injections efficacy claims have gone from 90+% to around 40% claims. Now you need a booster, now they're working on a 4th. Masks aren't needed, masks are needed, injected people can't spread it, they aren't dying, then they do spread it and are dying from it. There are no long term adverse effects, then they admit it's killing people. But they don't count people who are less than 14 days injected. Oh, and myocarditis and pericarditis. Athletes are dying of heart attacks on the court and field.
Every week new admissions are made retracting previous claims made by the experts and governments. I'm pretty confident some of you who took these shots and are reading will not be with us in the short term. More of you will be here, but suffering new health concerns that will shorten your lives. Heart problems will be common.
The Pfizer Covid vaccine has been fully authorized by the FDA. It's not being administered to the adult population under an Emergency Use Authorization anymore.
I expect the Moderna and J&J vaccines will be fully authorized by the FDA and take their place on the bartender's shelf of fully FDA-authorized vaccines for the adult population soon. It takes a long time for the "red tape" of dotting the eyes and crossing the tees.
"Prove me wrong" as one of the other forum members has had a penchant for saying.
A hemophilia treatment was at one time FDA approved and gave a bunch of people aids. I would like to think as a species we are smarter, but its not about smart. They knew it was a risk and what it was going to cost to make it safe. Some of the drug companies said it couldn't be done until a drug company in another country made its safe. So FDA doesn't hold as much water as you would expect.
Guess we will have to wait and see, perhaps the preventive measures will prove to be enough. Or perhaps nature will do what it wants and we as a species will adapt. Regardless you can't put the cat back in the bag, now its all about living with the damn thing until one of us is dead.
Stop being a fat a**. Do some exercise. Get healthy so you can get off all the meds requited to maintain a fat lazy lifestyle. If you're old and weak, you're at risk. Otherwise, no. You aren't.
Yeah, a small percentage have heart, lung liver conditions that aren't caused by lifestyle. They're a very small percentage. Nobody else is at risk.
Originally posted by rinselberg: Not exactly. I've read about it in the non-specialist media. That the Moderna and Pfizer "MRNA" kinds of vaccines are being described in certain quarters as some kind of genetic or DNA "therapy" is--in my opinion--a canard.
What I take from this is that even you don't believe the media on any of this.
With very few exceptions, I am whole heartedly against mandating vaccinations. But, I do believe most folks should be vaccinated against COVID. Most folks have made up their minds and will either suffer through COVID or die trying. I view it as their decision. I simply hope they don't bring COVID home to their friends and loved ones. The vast majority of folks that get infected with COVID will survive as the data has proven, those with immunity issues, those with obesity issues, those with aging issues IMHO should get immunized with one of the EUA vaccines. But, that's their choice. I got my vaccination and am glad I did. Don't care if other's do or don't.
You're correct about a lot of lies being spread. I'm quite sure there will be several told if this thread lasts very long.
Rams
OK, but since the shot doesn't stop you from getting or spreading the virus, how does it change anything that happens if they do or don't get the shot?
My Mom told me just a few hours ago that she has stopped her cancer checks (she is in a really high risk segment) because the doctors office is requiring covid tests, and flu tests prior to any office visit, and you can't get the tests within their system for some strange reason. So, in order to have her doctors appointment, she has to get a referral to another doctor who isn't in her network for the covid/flu tests within a week of her appointment, and then she has to take the results in to "confirm" her appointment. We live an hour from everything, and she can't afford (physically) the extra drives back and forth to the city for something that isn't even helpful... She could easily get covid anytime after she is tested, heck, she could get it when she is tested and it would be a negative result. She tried to go to the local Hospital and get her covid test there today, they told her they can't do it because they are in teh same network as her doctor. It's some kind of screwed up bizzaro world.
She has had three covid shots at this point, the two initial, and a "booster". I don't know if she has her flu shot yet, but she gets it every year so far.
As far as "Mandates" go, and as far as I'm concerned when "Brandon" goes on live TV and has the unbelievable lunatic gall to actually tell the American people: "We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin" as he announces his clearly unconstitutional vaccine mandates, a HUGE RED LINE into tyranny has been crossed.
Just WHO THE ACTUAL F**K does he think he is talking to?
That is the language of tyrants and dictators, NOT a servant of We The People.
Brandon can take his "patience" along with his "mandate" and stuff it straight up his reportedly over-active and under-controlled anus.
Government authoritarianism under the guise of medicine.
My state Governor aptly expressed a lot of my thoughts on this:
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-07-2021).]
Originally posted by Fats: What I take from this is that even you [rinselberg] don't believe the media on any of this.
I didn't make that clear. Sorry for that. No, I DO believe the reports that I have read about the Pfizer and Moderna Covid vaccines in the non-specialist and "establishment" media like the New York Times, NBC News and such. These MRNA vaccines are designed to put Messenger Ribonucleic Acid or MRNA into the recipient's body in order to provoke an immunizing response. The MRNA in these vaccines is designed to cause the recipient's own cells (muscle cells, I think) to create a protein that mimics the Covid virus "spike" and in so doing, "trick" the recipient's own system into reacting by creating the antibodies and T-cells that provide immunity against the Covid virus.
What I disagree with are the people who have been describing these Covid vaccines with terminologies like "gene therapy", or saying that these Covid vaccines have the potential to change a vaccinated person's DNA. That, I believe, is a canard. A boogeyman. A deception that heightens apprehensions and fears about the vaccines that is not based on science.
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Originally posted by Fats: OK, but since the [Covid] shot doesn't stop you from getting or spreading the virus, how does it change anything that happens if they do or don't get the shot?
Based on the various media reports that I have read or seen, I am led to believe that it is more likely than not that the Covid vaccines reduce a vaccinated person's ​chances of becoming infected, and even if they do become infected--a "breakthrough" infection--it's less likely that they will spread the virus to anyone else, compared to an unvaccinated person who becomes infected with the virus.
All told, the upsides of being vaccinated are greater than the downsides of being vaccinated, in terms of a priori probabilities--the probabilities that an unvaccinated person would logically consider.
It you take a person who has been vaccinated and it can be shown that this person suffered a bad outcome from being vaccinated--that's post priori.
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Originally posted by Fats: My Mom . . .
That's just screwed up. I wouldn't know where to start with the blame. But I wouldn't be too quick to point my finger at "Brandon."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-07-2021).]
OK, but since the shot doesn't stop you from getting or spreading the virus, how does it change anything that happens if they do or don't get the shot?
SNIP
She has had three covid shots at this point, the two initial, and a "booster". I don't know if she has her flu shot yet, but she gets it every year so far.
Regardless of what some claim, the COVID vaccinations reduce the symptoms and save lives. I've posted this stuff before, most folks have already made their decision and it's their to make. Some won't agree and that's alright, it's their decision, I'm past caring what adults decide to do on this topic.
What I really have a problem with is mandating the COVID vaccinations and forcing folks into submission (with a few exceptions). As I understand it, 29 states have filed suit to stop President Biden's/OSHA's requirement for employees. Even with the high survival rate, there are many that should (IMO) take precautionary steps to include the vaccinations. I said should, I didn't say forced to. I'm sad to learn your Mom is having all the difficulty. Hopefully, things will improve for her.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-08-2021).]
Once upon a time, the now long-established vaccine mandates for schoolchildren--not the Covid vaccines, but the historically established vaccines like measles and whooping cough and whatever other vaccines have long been mandated for schoolchildren across the U.S.--once upon a time, those mandates for schoolchildren were a new thing.
Woulds't thou eliminate these long-established vaccine mandates for schoolchildren?
And if thou woulds't not eliminate these long-established vaccine mandates for schoolchildren, is it reasonable to argue against imposing Covid vaccine mandates for adults who work at large companies, just because this also would be a new thing?
I guess that's about as far my thoughts are taking me, in regards to mandates.
Once upon a time, the now long-established vaccine mandates for schoolchildren--not the Covid vaccines, but the historically established vaccines like measles and whooping cough and whatever other vaccines have long been mandated for schoolchildren across the U.S.--once upon a time, those mandates for schoolchildren were a new thing.
Woulds't thou eliminate these long-established vaccine mandates for schoolchildren?
And if thou woulds't not eliminate these long-established vaccine mandates for schoolchildren, is it reasonable to argue against imposing Covid vaccine mandates for adults who work at large companies, just because this also would be a new thing?
I guess that's about as far my thoughts are taking me, in regards to mandates.
I believe that those are State based, and can not only be fairly easily bypassed for various exemptions, nobody is told that they can't earn a living because they don't have their measles vaccine.
And I would certainly allow it to be a decision made by the parents and not the Government.
I believe that those are State based, and can not only be fairly easily bypassed for various exemptions, nobody is told that they can't earn a living because they don't have their measles vaccine.
And I would certainly allow it to be a decision made by the parents and not the Government.
I might view this differently if the survival rate for youngsters was different. We already have regulations for kids going to school requiring immunization against several different diseases. Most folks don't have an issue with these because, they want their own kids protected. There will always be those who don't want any vaccinations. I'm not qualified to say they are wrong but, MMR vaccinations (as an example) have done much to make life better for all. Is the COVID vaccination about to become one of those vaccinations?
The data appears to show that our youth may not need that but, those in certain categories should definitely be seeking precautionary measures and the COVID vaccination has been shown to reduce symptoms and overwhelmingly decrease the death rate for those who decided to get it. Decisions have consequences and rewards, pick your own path.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 11-08-2021).]
YOU: everybody should choose to get the injections that don't protect you from getting and transmitting a coronavirus. We REQUIRE it for other stuff.
ME: how many people die from MMR shots or contract it or even still transmit it?
YOU: I hate you.
Actually, none of that would be accurate. But then, you're not known for accuracy, exaggeration yes, accuracy no. It difficult to hate something that can't help but be itself. I mean really, I don't hate chiggers, they can be a pain the the ass but, they just do what chiggers do. It might be more accurate to use the Dung Beetle as an example. Yeah, that's closer.
Additionally, I'm always accurate. That's the main reason you and willie can't stand me; because you can't refute what I post as it destroys your erroneous belief system.
As long as you're happy, I'm happy for you. 
