Google isn't trying to take away anyone's First Amendment rights. They're electing to not do business with a site that they don't approve of. (ignoring the whole "First Amendment" applying to someone hosting their business in the Netherlands).
It's disturbing how many people think refusing to PAY someone for their speech is the same thing as censoring them.
Q.F.T. It seems everybody these days confuses First Amendment rights with Entitlement. They expect the right to say whatever they want, wherever they want with impunity. This is a privately-owned website, hosted on a non-US server, and contains advertising from a third party global company that Cliff contracted with. None of that is US Government or public property, which is the only place you can claim your First Amendment rights. Not in my living room, not in the lobby of the bank, and not here. Why doesn't Cliff just plead the Fifth and clear this whole thing up? Yeah, he can't. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the advertiser's policies, it's moot. Don't agree? Don't put their ads on your site. No conspiracy.
I used to preach that sermon different places on the internet--and in real life-, and finally figured "I guess Civics is no longer taught in schools" and decided it was just easier to let 'em believe whatever they wanted to anyway.
quote
Originally posted by Gary W:
Q.F.T. It seems everybody these days confuses First Amendment rights with Entitlement. They expect the right to say whatever they want, wherever they want with impunity. This is a privately-owned website, hosted on a non-US server, and contains advertising from a third party global company that Cliff contracted with. None of that is US Government or public property, which is the only place you can claim your First Amendment rights. Not in my living room, not in the lobby of the bank, and not here. Why doesn't Cliff just plead the Fifth and clear this whole thing up? Yeah, he can't. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the advertiser's policies, it's moot. Don't agree? Don't put their ads on your site. No conspiracy.
This is just part of the "service" Google is selling to their clients*. As a consumer, find out who those companies are, and stop doing business with them. Those companies will then seek a company to "represent" them that isn't so stringent about where they will & won't place their clients ads.
No one ever said harvesting consumers would be easy...
*The client himself probably isn't even aware of this part of the service. I can't imagine they actually care who they are selling too...money is money. I doubt if the business that hired Google to represent them would kill a sale just because the consumer looked at a picture of boobies at a car website on the internet...
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 04-26-2016).]
If the googlead/adsense ads here at PFF are like the ones on the cattle boards I frequent, the ads vary with the viewer and at different times. The ads generally reflect the viewer's own personal browsing habits/history.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
This is just part of the "service" Google is selling to their clients*. As a consumer, find out who those companies are, and stop doing business with them. Those companies will then seek a company to "represent" them that isn't so stringent about where they will & won't place their clients ads.
No one ever said harvesting consumers would be easy...
*The client himself probably isn't even aware of this part of the service. I can't imagine they actually care who they are selling too...money is money. I doubt if the business that hired Google to represent them would kill a sale just because the consumer looked at a picture of boobies at a car website on the internet...
If the googlead/adsense ads here at PFF are like the ones on the cattle boards I frequent, the ads vary with the viewer and at different times. The ads generally reflect the viewer's own personal browsing habits/history.
Yes, that's what they did do. If you had just been searching for Ford Trucks before coming tot he board, you'd probably see a ad for a Ford dealer or Ford Truck parts. It wasn't rare for me to pop on here after looking at car stereo stuff online and on eBay only to have ads for Parts Express show up for me.
The ads were so effective they were useless. I order a lot thru banggod.com and I would often see my orders mimicked in the banggood banners on this forum.
- The smart ones here have figured out that we screwed ourselves and my not be able dig ourselves out of this one - The rest are left blaming Google and Obama - And then there's Steve adding a new blocked word to every new post just making the whole situation worse.
I think we've done it here, by the way it sounded from Cliff's post Google's decision is final. No amount of signatures on a petition are gonna fix this mess. I'm willing to bet it all did stem from Greasemonkey's thread. I remember that simply because he was from Iowa (funny how that works) and I do remember that thread taking quite the turn for the worse. If I recall correctly pictures were posted of young looking women attached to a post that read something like "she's 18 but sure doesn't look like it......"
I really do hope this all gets fixed somehow but I'm really not too optimistic. At the very least I hope the tech archives get saved somehow. I sold my Fiero last August but even before that I really didn't visit general or tech too often. If I had a question on the car I used the search function. I've hung out in O/T for quite some time now; I don't post near as much as some of you guys but read quite a majority of the threads when I have time. It's gonna be sad to see it go and, again, I hope something happens that fixes this.
[This message has been edited by fastblack (edited 04-27-2016).]
The funny part of all this, is do you remember some of the ad's google places in the forum..?? I've gone to the CVS website to order a refill of meds. and open forums CAR forums and get condom ad's.. or Blue pill ad's.. Holloween I went looking for a sexy costume for the wife, and the ad's for non-adult costumes that I'd label as very very wrong.. google plastered over more than a few car forums.. wish I kept a screen shot.
- And then there's Steve adding a new blocked word to every new post just making the whole situation worse.
Glad you feel that way, you can feel proud that you made a member who has been here as long as you and posted 10 times as much to say good by PFF. I hope you are proud of yourself.
You have posted even worse things yourself, my posts in this thread were used to show that when I spell something right the forum filter catches what it thinks are bad words, yet many words have 2 meanings, that obviously offends google, not their advertisers, they are just using that as an excuse to raise prices, what does anyone want to bet if Cliff does get the advertising back the cost will be higher for Cliff?
Here is an example of the exact same thing done by you in the title of a thread you started.
Glad you feel that way, you can feel proud that you made a member who has been here as long as you and posted 10 times as much to say good by PFF. I hope you are proud of yourself.
You have posted even worse things yourself, my posts in this thread were used to show that when I spell something right the forum filter catches what it thinks are bad words, yet many words have 2 meanings, that obviously offends google, not their advertisers, they are just using that as an excuse to raise prices, what does anyone want to bet if Cliff does get the advertising back the cost will be higher for Cliff?
Here is an example of the exact same thing done by you in the title of a thread you started.
So tell me again how are you making this any better? This should have been deleted by you already. Steve
Sheesh, lighten up already, I was seriously just joking. I never claimed to be perfect, not even close. I really do hope this all gets resolved, PFF is like no other forum on the internet and I'd like it to stay around.
As far as you leaving, you're a big boy and can do what you want but don't let some guy on the internet you've never met be the deciding factor.
Now as far as those links you posted go, I'm sure I've said worse things on this forum. The first had a mildly offensive title but as you know, you can't edit a title after it's been replied to. Give me a minute on the second one and I'll remove the "P" word. Even though it's not the "P" word most are thinking.
Honestly, sorry your feeling got hurt, just thought you could take a little joke.
Edit to add: Both are archived therefore I cannot edit them.
[This message has been edited by fastblack (edited 04-27-2016).]
?? Google doesn't charge. You would pay if you wanted PFF to appear in ads on other sites. If you allow Google to place ads on your site, YOU get paid a tiny amount per view or click-through. That's how he makes money off the site - or at least offsets some costs.
?? Google doesn't charge. You would pay if you wanted PFF to appear in ads on other sites. If you allow Google to place ads on your site, YOU get paid a tiny amount per view or click-through. That's how he makes money off the site - or at least offsets some costs.
Sorry, brain fart, thought it was about placing the forum higher to the top in the search by google. like here.
If google said we posted them I would like to know if they gave examples of our indiscretions online that they disapprove of and what they approve of. Can we even say the word in a thread or is it just derogatory statements about said subjects? or is it just the times we say , this is good or this is bad.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-28-2016).]
The Idea that this forum could disappear is really concerning to me. Could we afford to help? I didn't see Cliff post any numbers yet, but... I'll guess some math for a minute. Let's assume Goog wants to pay him $10 a day. Thats $3650 a year this month 851 people posted. let's say 10% of those people would be willing to help pay ( realistically I think that's probably too high, but there are good people here) That would mean about $43 bucks a year for those 10%
Is it insane to think that we could keep that up? Would 85 people actually pay $43 a year to be here or would they just go to another forum? My instincts say no way. But I sure would like to figure something out. I would not have a Fiero if it wasn't for this forum. It was my inspiration watching everyone here and their projects that spawned my own.
If google said we posted them I would like to know if they gave examples of our indiscretions online that they disapprove of and what they approve of. Can we even say the word in a thread or is it just derogatory statements about said subjects? or is it just the times we say , this is good or this is bad.
This is just my opinion, but it seems to me that most of the objectionable content from Google's standpoint is going to be: Hate speech of any kind, whether it be about "The Muslims", "The Jews", The Blacks", or any other group you want to pick. And there's no denying that's been all over T/OT. Depiction or discussion of reproductive matters, especially alluding to young people. Any of the 'wink, wink, nudge, nudge' links to NSFW content on other sites. (Remember when there was a "hidden gallery" and links to it?) I highly doubt that the errant swear word is on their radar, since even editorials can include those words in quotes and opinions. I would also think that there are certain keywords that definitely get their attention, and I wouldn't count out alternate spellings of them. Several start with "P" and allude to body parts, adult videos, and child abuse.
I know Cliff stated that T/OT should be PFF's "bar", but you don't take your young kids into the bar and shoot the BS with your buddies and leer at the girls. Google's preferred version would be more like PFF's living room, where your small kids, your wife, your girlfriend, and strangers of other cultures would not feel unwelcome or (I hate to say offended, but it fits). T/OT has been a tough place for women, People of Color, and certain religions at different times. There's no denying this, whether or not you agree with the PC movement. There is Politically Correct, and there's just Behaving Yourself. (Not directed at you personally, Steve, just a concept.) Sure, we have some fun topics in T/OT, and I've participated in some of them. There are others, frankly, that embarrass and disturb me - and IMO they should have been moderated. Like it or not, any large group of people is not going to adhere to a set of rules without active enforcement.
Another forum I belong to has a simple credo: Be nice. If you are not nice, you will get a warning. Then you will be banned. There is still political discussion in O/T, but it's civil - an exchange of ideas. Everyone is laid back, and only a few disruptors have been banned in the time I've been there. There are no posts about how this group or that are destroying America, or Check Out These Girls threads, or Obama is the Antichrist. Everyone agrees that there are other places for that, and it just doesn't happen. Granted, that forum is also directly moderated, but I think it's only 2 or 3 admins. What this leads to, IMHO, is an even better tech section than here - because everyone RESPECTS each other, even if they have different approaches to the same problem. There's no sniping, no ego, and none of the holier-than-thou outright narcissism I see even in some of the tech threads here.
In conclusion, again IMHO, the current T/OT is incompatible with Google advertising. Simple as that. Either it becomes PG-13 Vanilla Disneyland, or another source of revenue is needed.
My appeal has been denied... Not sure what to do next. I can't keep this forum running without the ads.
If this is indeed leading to the end. We need a rebirth/conversion on some kind of less costly server/ format / whatever. Any knowledgable folks in that area?
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-28-2016).]
So now we need to delete the girls without Fiero's thread, hey there was some heated discussion about several of Rogers female friends? I better go in there and save the pictures quick !
So is WTF still an option, can we get a list of words that gets us on their hit list? How much skin you can show of what body parts? email them to me before you delete that one Cliff.
If this is indeed leading to the end. We need a rebirth/conversion on some kind of less costly server/ format / whatever. Any knowledgable folks in that area?
Start drinking heavily. Hey worked for the guys in Animals House.
It ALSO works wonders for getting rid of managers/ salespeople who don't want to leave you alone on weekends ......roll out of bed on a Saturday morning, start with a few beers instead of coffee and then there is NOTHING they can do to force you on the road.
I think it would be helpful if we could rate a post (thumbs up or down). When a certain number of thumbs down is reached, then the post is hidden, or removed.
I think it would be helpful if we could rate a post (thumbs up or down). When a certain number of thumbs down is reached, then the post is hidden, or removed.
If you mean with categories like marking the thread "inappropriate" or something in regards to the topic of this thread. But it seems like moderator review would still be good.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-02-2016).]
Q.F.T. It seems everybody these days confuses First Amendment rights with Entitlement. They expect the right to say whatever they want, wherever they want with impunity. This is a privately-owned website, hosted on a non-US server, and contains advertising from a third party global company that Cliff contracted with. None of that is US Government or public property, which is the only place you can claim your First Amendment rights. Not in my living room, not in the lobby of the bank, and not here. Why doesn't Cliff just plead the Fifth and clear this whole thing up? Yeah, he can't. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the advertiser's policies, it's moot. Don't agree? Don't put their ads on your site. No conspiracy.
I think it would be helpful if we could rate a post (thumbs up or down). When a certain number of thumbs down is reached, then the post is hidden, or removed.
shocking a liberal would want to hide, or silenced,removed...
......roll out of bed on a Saturday morning, start with a few beers instead of coffee and then there is NOTHING they can do to force you on the road. 
