I would cite what the declaration of independence states as to what should be done with when a government becomes tyrannical. I don't believe they are fighting for the Hammond's. I believe they are trying to stop further blm tyranny. I also believe the government will become violent first.
I don't agree with them occupying a federal building, despite Occupy wallstreet nonsense. I also don't believe this was the breaking point that required action, but they did. However, I do commend people for standing up what they believe in, but I wouldn't suggest a PFF member to join them. It will most likely end badly, and the best possible outcome will end up with prison time.
I watched this video several days ago. Please take the ten minutes out of your day to watch. It starts off slow, but the meat of the story hits quickly. Pertinent to this conversation.
I watched it because you said to.
Holy **** . After watching that, and hearing him........ I knew the BLM was crooked, but this is horrible.
Whatever your stance, Bundy and the men in the federal building are risking their lives for what they believe to be fighting tyranny. You can disagree, but the following story shows the complete lack of compassion and basic humanity, in what used to be America. This is not funny, this is sick and degenerate. I truly hope, no one that is a member of this forum, stooped this low. ==============================================================
January 13, 2016 Militia leaders in Oregon want people responding to their plea for supplies to stop yanking their chain — by sending them sex toys.
The self-styled patriots who took over a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon released a wish list with more than 85 items ranging from food, clothing and medications to hygiene products, underwear and tampons.
But it’s the gag shipments of dildos and other assorted bedroom items that really got a rise out of the militiamen.
“So we went and picked up some mail that came in from a lot of supporters,” Jon Ritzheimer says in a video posted on his Facebook page. “But along with that mail we got an abundance of hate mail.”
Standing by a table filled with kinky products, an incensed Ritzheimer adds: “It is really mind-blowing to me that people would spend their money … and buy this ridiculous stuff.”
He picks up a package and chuckles derisively.
“This one was really funny,” he grumbles. “It’s a bag of dicks.”
“Rather than going out and doing good, they spend all their money on hate, hate, hate!” he says before pushing everything off the table.
“We’re not going to be deterred. We’re not going to let all your junk and hate mail sidetrack us. We’re going to do what’s right for our country,” he says.
He then calls for “patriots” who want to take part in “history in the making” to join their ranks.
The band of armed agitators seeking to fight federal land management policies is under pressure from many locals to end the occupation that began Jan. 2.
The activists plan to hold a community meeting Friday in Burns, 30 miles from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, to explain themselves and inform residents when they will leave, The Oregonian newspaper reported.
Ammon Bundy, the group’s leader, has said the group would not leave until a plan was in place to turn over federal lands to local authorities.
The group also wants the release of Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven, ranchers convicted of arson who returned to prison last week to serve longer sentences, the AP reported.
I'm sure that BLM does some crappy things but these guys are just stepping on their dicks. Nothing legal about it or any need for the arms. Did you see the video of them vandalizing cameras that were aimed at an electrical substation? They are providing the evidence that will be used to prosecute them. I'm getting ready to do some civil disobedience myself in the near future but I won't be packing and I'm ready to pay the price. Could be some jail time. I spent the weekend in jail back in 1980 over a traffic ticket that had escalated to $243 and a warrant was issued because I was broke. It wasn't that bad and I got to experience what it was like. These guys must know that there will be a price but it looks like they all think they're heroes.
I'm sure that BLM does some crappy things but these guys are just stepping on their dicks. Nothing legal about it or any need for the arms. Did you see the video of them vandalizing cameras that were aimed at an electrical substation? They are providing the evidence that will be used to prosecute them. I'm getting ready to do some civil disobedience myself in the near future but I won't be packing and I'm ready to pay the price. Could be some jail time. I spent the weekend in jail back in 1980 over a traffic ticket that had escalated to $243 and a warrant was issued because I was broke. It wasn't that bad and I got to experience what it was like. These guys must know that there will be a price but it looks like they all think they're heroes.
Haven't seen the video, completely agree about no need of arms, at this stage in the game. BLM has flat out broken the law, endanger lives, committed tyranny, stolen land, etc. However, all means of dealing with that have not been exhausted, and there was no immediate threat to life. I support your right to civil disobedience, in times of tyranny. However, I caution you to exhaust all other avenues first. I also caution you to not speak any more of it online.
I'm sure that BLM does some crappy things but these guys are just stepping on their dicks. Nothing legal about it or any need for the arms. Did you see the video of them vandalizing cameras that were aimed at an electrical substation? They are providing the evidence that will be used to prosecute them. I'm getting ready to do some civil disobedience myself in the near future but I won't be packing and I'm ready to pay the price. Could be some jail time. I spent the weekend in jail back in 1980 over a traffic ticket that had escalated to $243 and a warrant was issued because I was broke. It wasn't that bad and I got to experience what it was like. These guys must know that there will be a price but it looks like they all think they're heroes.
Their biggest problem is that they have no support on a regional or national level--and of course Oregon is a liberal state too. The rest of the country, especially in the Eastern and Calif population centers just can't identify with old, relatively successful, mostly white ranchers vs BLM/BLR problems. Occupy (wall st for example) got a lot more public support across the country , but mostly because it happened in big cities, and it was a liberal cause for the most part.
BURNS – Tensions mounted Saturday at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, where men involved in an armed standoff clashed with conservationists and accused government workers of harassing their families.
As the standoff led by Arizona businessman Ammon Bundy entered its third week at the refuge headquarters, accusations swirled that Child Protective Services workers had begun visiting some of the occupiers' families.
Meanwhile, a visit to the refuge from land conservationists devolved into a shouting match, complete with a bullhorn and name-calling, after the group tried to address news reporters.
The spectacle erupted just after occupiers arrived for a morning news briefing with a wicker basket full of surveillance cameras they removed Friday from a transformer station outside Burns. LaVoy Finicum, a spokeman for the occupiers, claimed the cameras had been installed by the FBI.
"This in my opinion is unreasonable search," said Finicum, referencing the Fourth Amendment as he invited the agency to "come pick them up."
Ammon Bundy and his armed anti-government followers took over the refuge Jan. 2, two days before father and son ranchers from Harney County were to report to federal prison for setting fires on federal land. The occupiers want Dwight and Steve Hammond released and to see the federally owned land returned to local ranchers and loggers. 1 / 11 Environmental activists had a faceoff with refuge occupants at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge outside of Burns, Or., Jan. 16, 2016. Kelly House/Staff Mark Graves | The Oregonian/OregonLive
In the days since, they've been joined by a growing stream of supporters as well as counter protesters who say the land should remain public.
Members of the Center for Biological Diversity, led by executive director Kierán Suckling, arrived at the Saturday morning news briefing carrying signs and waiting for an opening to speak against the seizure of the wildlife refuge 30 miles south of Burns.
When Finicum finished addressing reporters, Suckling picked up the mic.
"The center has been tangling with the Bundys since the mid-1990s," Suckling said of the Arizona-based nonprofit, which claims more than 990,000 members and activists dedicated to protecting wild places and endangered species. But before Suckling could finish, the occupiers started yelling and booing.
"We're here to speak up for public land, which belongs to the public," he continued over the clamor. "These people are trying to take the land away."
The occupiers, who have repeatedly defended their armed standoff by arguing it is a form of free speech, booed and shouted down the conservationists who visited Saturday with the same stated purpose.
Pete Santilli, one of the occupiers, pulled out a bullhorn and started shouting "communist" and "fascist." He then flipped on a siren and said, "You're under arrest for bull****ting."
Suckling and his group stopped talking and instead pointed to the signs they were carrying. "STOP BUNDY LAND GRAB," one read. Oregon Standoff: Occupiers remove cameras Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupiers remove security cameras and accuse the government of harassment.
Amid the drama, occupiers said they're concerned the federal government is targeting their families to punish them for their standoff at the refuge. Finicum, who runs a foster care program at his Arizona ranch, said state officials had removed four young boys from his care.
The governor's office "came down and ripped my boys out of my home," he said.
News that Child Protective Services workers had visited the home of at least one standoff participant spurred a "call to arms" for Bundy's supporters in Arizona to intervene should government workers attempt to take children from the home, said Jon Ritzheimer, a prominent member of the Bundy group.
The occupiers have grown increasingly bold in their denunciations of the government, from accusing it of using family members as "hostages" to posing as members of Bundy's group in an attempt to confuse the public.
Their long-term plans for the standoff remain unclear, though Bundy has repeatedly said the group won't leave until the refuge is divvied up among area landowners or they feel confident that local residents can accomplish that goal on their own.
Neither Bundy nor his brother, Ryan Bundy, made an appearance at Saturday's briefing.
Finicum said the occupiers hope to hold a community meeting Monday to outline their exit strategy. The group had to cancel plans for one Friday after they were denied access to a community space at the Harney County Fairgrounds. Ammon Bundy is expected to outline the group's goals in a PowerPoint presentation at the meeting.
As the occupation draws increased backlash from environmentalists and public lands activists, its ranks are growing as supporters trickle in from across the country.
KrisAnne Hall, an attorney and prominent face in the patriot movement, will visit Burns on Monday to host two nights of workshops at the county fairgrounds. An assistant for Hall said she will lecture community members on two topics: sovereignty of the state and the constitutional limits of the federal government's control.
In the meantime, the Bundy group won't hold a news conference on Sunday.
—Kelly House khouse@oregonian.com 503-221-8178 @Kelly_M_House
"Go home": Oregon militia standoff leader jeered at town meeting
January 20, 2016, 11:05 AM
The leader of an armed group who took over a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon weeks ago joined hundreds of area residents at a tense community meeting - listening quietly as many loudly chanted at him to "go!"
Ammon Bundy, who has been trying to drum up support for his cause, didn't speak at Tuesday night's meeting in Burns where residents discussed the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge which began earlier this month.
Play Video Armed activist leader in Oregon on standoff with federal government
Some of the several hundred community members spoke to Bundy directly. One woman thanked him for raising awareness around issues of public lands, but told him it's time to go home to his family.
"Ammon, you need to go home to your family; thank you," said local resident Jennifer Williams. "I've heard so many things I didn't know before. Now I'm aware."
Other speakers were less congenial and at times angry and emotional in comments directed at the armed group as well as at local government officials and federal government, in part for not doing more to end the occupation.
Harney County Judge Steve Grasty took the microphone over to where Bundy sat in the bleachers and told Bundy he'd drive him wherever he wanted to go, as far as Utah. He also offered to meet with him anytime.
Bundy and his small posse left after the meeting without incident.
Rallies also were held in Portland and Eugene, Oregon and in Boise, Idaho, Tuesday, with hundreds of people calling for Bundy to end the occupation and pointing out that federal management allows all kinds of people to enjoy public lands.
Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward reiterated in a statement before the Burns meeting that law enforcement wants the armed group to vacate the refuge.
He said police have arrested two men affiliated with the group and included a new report that Duane Kirkland of Hamilton, Montana, was stopped and arrested Thursday on a felon in possession of a firearm charge. Police arrested Kenneth Medenbach, of La Pine, in Burns Friday for unauthorized use of a vehicle authorities say was taken illegally from the refuge.
CBS affiliate KOIN reported that Bundy said the armed occupiers are not there to negotiate but want the elected county officials, including the sheriff, "to get in line."
Bundy and his group are demanding that the refuge be turned over to local residents. Bundy is a son of rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a 2014 Nevada standoff with the federal government over grazing rights.
Rallies also were held in Portland and in Boise, Idaho, Tuesday, with hundreds of people calling for Bundy to end the occupation and pointing out that federal management allows all kinds of people to enjoy public lands.
The group Bundy leads has said repeatedly that local people should control federal lands. Bundy has told reporters the group would leave when there was a plan in place to turn over federal lands to locals - a common refrain in a decades-long fight over public lands in the West. At a Tuesday news conference, Bundy said "we're not going anywhere" until his group gets its goals accomplished. http://www.cbsnews.com/news...-hears-chants-of-go/
Kate Brown presses top federal officials for 'swift' action against occupiers Mark Graves | The Oregonian/OregonLive Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive By Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive on January 21, 2016 at 10:20 AM, updated January 21, 2016 at 1:00 PM
In a letter to the country's top law enforcement officials, Gov. Kate Brown pressed for "swift resolution" of the wildlife refuge occupation outside Burns.
Brown also wrote President Obama calling for action "without further delay."
The governor spoke out publicly Wednesday on the need for an end to the takeover that started Jan. 2 and has disrupted life throughout Harney County. Armed protesters holding the headquarters compound of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge are staying put despite calls from the sheriff and community members to leave.
Brown said in one letter that she talked with FBI Director James Comey about the Oregon standoff. The FBI is in charge of investigating and ending the refuge takeover. In a letter to Comey and to Attorney General Loretta Lynch, the governor recounted how every day "tensions are increasing exponentially" in Harney County.
Document: Gov. Kate Brown's letter to attorney general, FBI director
"While it is easy to assume that an occupation in such a remote location does not threaten public safety and does not harm any victims, that perception is far from accurate," the governor wrote.
Adding to community tensions is that "the criminals on the refuge are allowed to travel on and off the premises with little fear of law enforcement contact or interaction," she said. Oregon Standoff: Occupiers remove cameras Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupiers remove security cameras and accuse the government of harassment.
The leader of the occupation, Arizona businessman Ammon Bundy, and other key leaders of the group showed up Tuesday evening at a community meeting hosted by local public officials. A phalanx of state, county and city law enforcement officials was stationed both inside the Burns High School gymnasium, a school entryway and the school parking lot during the meeting.
No move was made to arrest Bundy or others, triggering a social media storm of questions about why they were allowed free passage. Law enforcement officials haven't commented on their tactics or strategy.
Brown noted that besides additional state troopers stationed in Harney County, sheriff's offices and city police departments around Oregon have been rotating in officers to help.
"This is not a sustainable law enforcement model for any extended period of time," she said.
State police last week arrested one occupier on accusations of driving a stolen refuge truck into Burns. Troopers also arrested another man outside Burns on weapons charges after he was stopped and told police he was destined for the refuge to join the militants.
"It is unclear what steps, if any, federal authorities might take to bring this untenable situation to an end and restore normalcy to this community," Brown wrote. "I must insist on a swift resolution."
In a separate letter to the president Wednesday, Brown said that earlier in the day she had "conveyed the harm that is being done to the citizens of Harney County" to Jerry Abramson, the president's director of intergovernmental affairs.
Document: Gov. Kate Brown letter to President Obama
Brown concluded by thanking Obama "for your timely attention to this matter."
I've heard that the feds are just giving them enough rope. I'm not a lawyer (although I once spent the night at the Holiday Inn) but I think that they might be jeopardizing their right to own guns. I don't see any need for an armed confrontation that might lead to bloodshed. They're looking for attention and they're getting it. Maybe just leave them alone with no coverage and let the charges pile up.
I've heard that the feds are just giving them enough rope. I'm not a lawyer (although I once spent the night at the Holiday Inn) but I think that they might be jeopardizing their right to own guns. I don't see any need for an armed confrontation that might lead to bloodshed. They're looking for attention and they're getting it. Maybe just leave them alone with no coverage and let the charges pile up.
Enough charges to justify Waco 2, so people like Montel Williams who somehow claims to be a human, yet called for the Government to execute them or it was racist will be happy.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 01-21-2016).]
No Waco2! Just give them enough rope and they will screw themselves enough so that they will quit this stuff. I won't get into the issues they're protesting because I'm not informed but this swaggering around armed to the teeth isn't my idea of the right way to protest. I'm a protester and I'm not opposed to civil disobedience but the last thing I would do is an armed disobedience.
From what I've read it's just gotten worse. Apparently they are bulldozing an area with native artifacts and videoing themselves rifling through them. This very well might not end well. Pressure is mounting for the authorities to take action. Wish they would leave!
Fish & Wildlife | News | local | An Armed Occupation In Eastern Oregon Militants Plow New Roads At Refuge, Possibly Damaging Artifacts
by Amanda Peacher OPB | Jan. 20, 2016 6:45 p.m. | Updated: Jan. 20, 2016 8:11 p.m. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service confirmed that this road within the refuge complex is new construction.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service confirmed that this road within the refuge complex is new construction.
Amanda Peacher/OPB The armed occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge continue to use government equipment inside the complex.
One militant, who refused to give his name, again plowed dirt with a refuge bulldozer Wednesday. He wouldn’t say why he was operating the machinery, but in several places, sagebrush and vegetation had been newly removed, leaving wide patches of bare mud within the complex.
The new road connects a bunkhouse with another road.
When asked about the construction, the militant claimed that the road was already there, and that militants had only removed snow from the path. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service says these fence posts were newly removed since the occupation. The road now cuts through the previously fenced area.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service says these fence posts were newly removed since the occupation. The road now cuts through the previously fenced area.
Amanda Peacher/OPB The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service confirmed Thursday that not only is the road built last week by the occupiers new, but it is also within an archaeological site important to the Burns Paiute Tribe.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service assistant director of external affairs, Jason Holm, condemned the militants last week for what he called “disgusting, ghoulish behavior.”
They removed part of a fence to create the short access road.
That fence was in place “as a deterrent to keep fire crews from driving across the archaeological site,” said Holm.
It appears militants moved rocks from an existing gravel pile in the compound to surface the road.
“It was just a goat trail before,” one militant told OPB, who also declined to provide his name. “People were slipping and falling.” Rocks used to surface the newly constructed road within the refuge appear to have been moved from a stockpile onsite.
Rocks used to surface the newly constructed road within the refuge appear to have been moved from a stockpile onsite.
Amanda Peacher/OPB
Kevin Foerster, the agency’s Pacific region chief, also denounced the construction.
“There’s a reason why there’s not a road there,” said Foerster. “If there was a need for a road in that particular location, we would have over the past 108 years put a road in that location.”
The agency said the action is likely a violation of the Archaeological Resources Protection Act, also known as the ARPA.
“Even disturbing 3 to 4 inches on the surface is an ARPA violation,” said Holm. “Investigators will have to excavate to determine depth of disturbance in several areas to understand the extent of the damage.” http://www.opb.org/news/ser...ove-soil-in-refuge-/
No Waco2! Just give them enough rope and they will screw themselves enough so that they will quit this stuff. I won't get into the issues they're protesting because I'm not informed but this swaggering around armed to the teeth isn't my idea of the right way to protest. I'm a protester and I'm not opposed to civil disobedience but the last thing I would do is an armed disobedience.
The issue Bundy was down there for were the Hammonds being sent back to Prison, because a second judge thought they should be sentenced by anti terror law minimum, which the original judge refused to do. Hammonds did a back burn to protect their home/ranch from a fire the BLM may have started. BTW, video exist on this thread of the BLM trying to burn ranchers out.
Oregon Wildlife Refuge Occupiers Rifle Through Native American Artifacts Brendan O'Connor Wednesday 10:21pmFiled to: oregon militia 96.9K 591 34
A video uploaded to Facebook on Wednesday appears to show the armed militants occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge rummaging through a storage area, accusing the Bureau of Land Management of improperly storing artifacts belonging to the local, native Paiute tribe. “SHARE!” the video is captioned. “BREAKING UPDATE BURNS OREGON BLM LEFT NATIVE ARTIFACTS TO ROT IN MICE DROPPINGS!”
Earlier this week, Burns Paiute tribal chairperson Charlotte Roderique expressed concern over how the militia was handling the tribe’s history. “We are really worried about the status of the artifacts down there,” Roderique told the Indian Country Today Media Network. (Gawker could not reach Roderique for comment.)
“I understand they took a bulldozer and built a line around the refuge headquarters,” Roderique told Indian Country Today. “You can’t go and bulldoze things. I don’t know what these people are doing if they are doing things to just get a rise or to be martyr—all they are doing is making enemies out of the people they professed to support.”
Last week, the tribe delivered a letter to the U.S. Attorney and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service demanding the militants’ prosecution “if the occupiers disturb, damage, remove, alter, or deface any archaeological resource on the refuge property.” From Indian Country Today:
There are approximately 4,000 artifacts belonging to the tribe in the buildings the militants are holding. The occupation is entering its third week.
The tribe is demanding federal action under both the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 and a “protection against bad men” provision in the treaty the tribe signed with the United States in 1868.
Under ARPA, a federal law authorizing law enforcement and penalties in the defense of archeological sites on public land, removing artifacts is a felony offense. First time offenders can be fined up to $20,000 and imprisoned for up to one year. Second time offenders can be fined up to $100,000 and imprisoned for up to 5 years.
Incidentally, in 2014, members of the Bundy clan driving ATVs through the Recapture Canyon, in southern Utah, to protest its closure to motorized vehicles, ended up trampling Ancestral Puebloan artifacts and dwellings.
“Damage to archaeological sites is permanent and the information about our collective past is then lost forever,” Jerry Spangler, director of the Colorado Plateau Archaeological Alliance, told the Salt Lake Tribune at the time. “It is sad that irreplaceable treasures of importance to all Americans would be sacrificed on the altar of anti-government fervor. It is worse that protesters would be so blinded to their own insensitivity as to what others consider to be sacred treasures of their past.”
Any posture towards historical stewardship the Bundys and their friends might take is completely disingenuous. “We also recognize that the Native Americans had the claim to the land, but they lost that claim,” Ammon Bundy’s brother, Ryan, said recently. “There are things to learn from cultures of the past, but the current culture is the most important.” http://gawker.com/oregon-wi...e-america-1754179614
Oregon militia leader Bundy holds first talks with FBI Published January 22, 2016 FoxNews.com
The leader of an armed militia that has occupied a national wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon for nearly three weeks made his first contact with an FBI negotiator Thursday.
The Oregonian reported that Ammon Bundy arrived unannounced at the Burns Municipal Airport, close to where federal officials have set up a staging area. Bundy said that the FBI had begun reaching out to the group two days earlier and claimed to have 14 messages on his phone from the negotiator, whom Bundy knows only as "Chris."
Bundy spoke to the negotiator on a borrowed cell phone as reporters watched.
"I'm a face-to-face kind of guy," Bundy told the negotiator at one point, according to the Oregonian. "You reached out to me ... I'm not sure exactly what you wanted to talk about."
Bundy asked for the release of ranchers Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son, Steven, who reported to prison earlier this month to finish five year prison sentences for arson on federal land. Bundy and his group occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge on Jan. 2 following a protest calling for the Hammonds' release
Bundy said his group is "not going to escalate" the situation, and he agreed to speak with authorities again Friday. Bundy and the FBI made contact one day after Oregon Gov. Kate Brown expressed frustration with what she described as a lack of action by federal authorities against the group.
In a statement Thursday, the FBI acknowledged the situation has caused "tremendous disruption and hardship" for people in the community and our "response has been deliberate and measured as we seek a peaceful resolution."
The plot thickens... Quite a different view, than the official narrative ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oregon standoff: Grant County sheriff urges release of Hammonds By Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive Email the author | Follow on Twitter on January 24, 2016 at 5:33 PM, updated January 24, 2016 at 6:55 PM BURNS – Leaders of the armed protesters holding the national bird sanctuary on Tuesday plan to push their anti-government agenda in Grant County, whose sheriff recommends the government give in to two of their key demands.
Sheriff Glenn Palmer said in a statement to The Oregonian/OregonLive that "the government is going to have to concede something" to end the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
He said freeing a father-son ranching team from prison "would be a start. Sending the FBI home would be a start." He referred to the FBI's lead role in ending the refuge occupation.
"I just pray to God that cooler heads prevail and that no one gets killed," Palmer said.
The sheriff's endorsement of the militants' demands stunned law enforcement officials, most who would not publicly discuss the matter.
Malheur County Sheriff Brian Wolfe, who has been helping in Burns, said Palmer's position "doesn't help the cause. If anything, it hampers the effort to end this."
The Grant County community may not know the protesters are coming back. The advertising promoting Tuesday's meeting makes no mention of Ammon Bundy or other occupation leaders. The meeting is set for 6 p.m. at the John Day Senior Center. Promotions urge local citizens to attend to learn about the Constitution and consider forming a Committee of Safety.
Such a committee was a key instrument used by Bundy to marshal local credibility in Harney County. Six citizens, including four ranchers, are now on the Harney County Committee of Safety, working closely with the refuge occupiers to unwind federal involvement in the county.
But LaVoy Finicum, an Arizona rancher who often speaks for the refuge occupiers, said that Ammon Bundy, his brother, and Ryan Payne planned to attend the John Day meeting. Finicum said he would attend too.
Finicum said he expected Bundy and the others to put on the same presentation they gave two weeks ago in the small Harney County community of Crane. There, attendees got lectures on the Constitution and reasons why local ranchers should renounce their federal grazing privileges.
Tad Houpt, the local businessman organizing the John Day meeting, didn't return four telephone messages or respond to written questions about the developments.
He organized the first known foray into Grant County by the militants on Jan. 12.
Ryan Payne and Jon Ritzheimer, two leaders of the occupation, attended a lunch in John Day with about 10 local residents. Palmer was called to the lunch, but said he didn't know ahead of time who was there.
He stayed for the lunch and then joined the group when it adjourned to meet in private at a nearby business.
Ritzheimer said that as the meeting ended, Palmer pulled out his pocket version of the U.S. Constitution.
He had the two militants autograph it, Ritzheimer said.
"We shared similar ideas about where we're at" in the country, Payne said.
"The sheriff has a practical plan for helping unravel the federal government," Payne said. He said the militants didn't ask Palmer to provide sanctuary or any other help to the protesters. He said when Palmer asked if he should visit the occupiers at the refuge, he advised the sheriff he would have to do so independently of his public role since he wouldn't have authority in Harney County.
Jim Sproul, a Grant County businessman who attended the meeting, said the protesters were "clean, nice, very informative."
"What I took away from it is they're no militants," Sproul said. "They're not terrorists. I think they are very patriotic."
Two days or so after that lunch, Payne returned with Ammon Bundy for a second meeting with Palmer.
County Judge Scott Myers said he was aware of that meeting but Palmer has shared no details.
"I have no idea whatever what they've discussed," Myers said.
Wolfe, president of the Oregon State Sheriffs Association, said the state's other sheriffs are concerned with Palmer's conduct. He said he asked Palmer for details about the meetings.
"All I've been told is they just wanted to talk to him," Wolfe said. "He's not shared any other details with us at all."
Palmer declined interview requests and answered only a handful of more than two dozen written questions.
"I am not hiding anything," he said in an email.
Palmer said in an email that he got a text message from Ammon Bundy around Jan. 10 asking him to come to the refuge. Palmer didn't address how the militant had the sheriff's cell phone number. Palmer said he advised Bundy he couldn't make such a trip without clearance from David Ward, the Harney County sheriff. Palmer said he was advised not to go.
While he wouldn't provide details of his subsequent meetings with the militants, Palmer said, "There are no and never has been any public safety concerns that would indicate that these people put our community at risk or in jeopardy."
In Harney County, the protesters in November and December pressed Ward to create a sanctuary to stop the imprisonment of ranchers Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son Steven. They returned to federal prison Jan. 4 to finish sentences for arson convictions. The militants insisted Ward had a constitutional duty to protect the Hammonds from what they considered unlawful imprisonment.
Bundy and his men are likely to find a receptive audience in Grant County and with Palmer. County residents have grown increasingly restive about the slow pace of restoring logging on the Malhuer National Forest and have bristled at plans to close forest service roads.
Palmer is aligned with the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association, a national nonprofit which interprets the constitution to severely limit federal government powers. Palmer was the association's first "Constitutional Sheriff of the Year" in 2011 and now serves on its advisory board.
He often speaks critically of the federal government, particularly the U.S. Forest Service, which is a major land owner in his county.
"The only thing that is out of control is the federal government," Palmer said in a 2011 speech in California to a group considering constitutional issues.
"I am not a public employee. I am a public servant," said Palmer.
He warned the audience that federal authorities were eroding water, mining and other resource rights.
"Don't let them take them from you," he said. "Stand up and defend for what you believe in."
Palmer ended a joint policing agreement with the Forest Service because it wouldn't submit to his authority.
"They have no constitutional authority" to perform police functions in Grant County, he said.
More recently, Palmer crafted a local plan that he believed mandated how the Forest Service could manage its lands. He said he needed local input to ensure he could protect the public and stop federal acts such as closing forest roads.
But the county's attorney said Palmer misread the law and the Constitution.
"There is no authority in the U.S. Constitution, Forest Service legislation or the [management] rule that afford any priority to the sheriff's plan," attorney Ron Yokim wrote to county commissioners last October.
I am not condoning any of this, but come try and take my child for any reason that you may perceive! I have witnessed the destruction caused by a child services by name only. Because of my anger expressed here towards them, a few of you will see an "extremist" attitude. I will not apologize.
Yup, battle Americans, but let islamic ilk flourish. Priorities lemmings.
looks like it may be coming to a close--or close to it. Ammon Bundy and 8 others reportedly 'detained". Officials said it all began with a traffic stop while Bundy and some of his followers were en route to a community meeting in John Day, about 70 miles away.
One dead, Bundys arrested after confrontation with FBI on highway
quote
HARNEY COUNTY, Ore. — One person is dead and several others, including Oregon occupation leader Ammon Bundy, were detained following a confrontation with the FBI and state police Tuesday night.
It all began with a traffic stop while Bundy and some of his followers were en route to a community meeting in John Day, about 70 miles away.
Shots were fired after FBI agents, Oregon State troopers and other law enforcement agencies made the stop on US Highway 395.
Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Brian Cavalier, Shawna Cox and Ryan W. Payne were arrested during the stop. Authorities said another person, Joseph Donald O'Shaughnessy, 45, was arrested in Burns.
They're all facing federal felony charges of conspiracy to impede officers of the US from discharging their official duties through the use of force, intimidation or threats.
One person, who was the subject of a federal probable cause arrest and has not yet been identified, died during the confrontation.
CNN is reporting it's unclear who fired first.
The arrests come on the heels of the 25th day of the refuge occupation.
Bundy and about three dozen of other individuals occupied the wildlife refuge earlier this month after two local ranchers, the Hammonds, were sent to prison for setting fires on federal land.
The Hammonds served no more than a year until an appeals court judge ruled that the terms fell short of minimum sentences requiring them to serve about four more years.
Ammon Bundy said he prayed about the matter and "clearly understood that the Lord was not pleased with what was happening to the Hammonds."
Bundy told KATU News last weekend his group had no intention of using their weapons, "but we have them, and we're willing to stand with them in our own defense as we exercise our rights, and as we restore our rights back to our brothers and sisters."
Yep....seems our crazed, blood thirsty Federal Government couldn't pass on the opportunity to kill at least one of these patriots. Now.....the **** gets real!
Yep, cops apparently pulled over a couple of their vehicles for a 'traffic stop', supposedly for breaking a traffic law to cover their butts. Havent heard officially how it got to a shooting match. No doubt the government story is the 'terrorists' fired on them first. Wonder if they had dash cams to contradict the police. I just put them in my vehicles because they got so cheap. I already voice record every time a cop approaches me, even walking. Ive already got a taste of their word against mine before. Not happening again. It even sends the recording out to each of my computers at home, so they cant just erase it or throw it away if they find it.
With as much attention that this event has been given, I find it easier to win the lottery than to have no cameras there. Both sides would have a huge potential to benefit from cameras.
Shots were fired after FBI agents, Oregon State troopers and other law enforcement agencies made the stop on US Highway 395.
Traffic stop? Why are they trying to float that BS. That was not a "traffic stop". They saw them on the road and arrested them. Why pretend they pulled them over for a broken taillight or some other infraction.
Priorities lemmings.
Havent heard officially how it got to a shooting match. No doubt the government story is the 'terrorists' fired on them first. Wonder if they had dash cams to contradict the police. I just put them in my vehicles because they got so cheap. I already voice record every time a cop approaches me, even walking. Ive already got a taste of their word against mine before. Not happening again. It even sends the recording out to each of my computers at home, so they cant just erase it or throw it away if they find it.
