OK, smart guy ... Why don't you find a plane capable of operating, landing, and taking off successfully in the . . . Roaring Forties of the southern Indian Ocean. (Hint: You may have to design it and weld it up yourself.) Then you can fly it under those conditions.
Oh Marvin, Marvin, Marvin, ye of little faith. Steve and Nurb will whip up something this week end and be down there by next Saturday. Mind you, I won't be with them.
Uh, Steve, what is it worth to ya to keep the local from finding out you been engineering again? I need to hear from you before you and Nurb head south.
OK, smart guy ... Why don't you find a long-range amphibious aircraft capable of operating off water ... landing, and taking off successfully ... in the supremely hostile environment of the Roaring Forties of the southern Indian Ocean. (Hint: You may have to design it and weld it up yourself.) Then you can fly it under those conditions.
Ignorance is bliss. Corollary: Anything is easy for the person who doesn't actually have to do it himself/herself.
Do you have a reindeer up your butt today or what, I already did.
Now all I need is someone qualified on here to fly it, I figure Roger can fly it in plane mode and Ron, Blackrams can fly it in helo mode. Any more questions oh educated one?
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 03-29-2014).]
With 12 bullet holes in his Osprey’s critical flight controls and fuel system, and with a severe fuel leak, he was able to maneuver the Osprey to a safe landing zone.
No alternative landing or safe landing zone out there on that water. Besides, what is the rush? If that plane crashed in that ocean there are no survivors.
With 12 bullet holes in his Osprey’s critical flight controls and fuel system, and with a severe fuel leak, he was able to maneuver the Osprey to a safe landing zone.
No alternative landing or safe landing zone out there on that water. Besides, what is the rush? If that plane crashed in that ocean there are no survivors.
No rush to me, I could care less if they ever find it.
Scads is a description, not a number, lurker. Unless the doctor gives you a cream for it. Then it is something very different. But that isn't scads anyway; it is scad. You still may have a lot of it. The cream works pretty well, from what I hear.
Scads of hydrophones sounds like a good name for the quantity in a box, though. Or would that be the volume of a box?
" How many will it hold? " " Scads. " " Big scads or little scads? " " Stupid, scads are always big. "
Oh Marvin, Marvin, Marvin, ye of little faith. Steve and Nurb will whip up something this week end and be down there by next Saturday. Mind you, I won't be with them.
Uh, Steve, what is it worth to ya to keep the local from finding out you been engineering again? I need to hear from you before you and Nurb head south.
I actually do have an engineering background and degree. I also know the problems of what is being discussed. I have clearly stated more than once that its a nearly impossible job ( the entire search, and now 'recovery' ).
So really not sure where that came from. ( unless you took my area 51/aliens comment seriously. i was joking, of course. )
[This message has been edited by Nurb432 (edited 03-29-2014).]
It's a 5 hour round trip out to the new search area and back to base according to the Australian base commander.
More disparity: After already announcing the flight "ended in the Indian Ocean with no survivors", the Sidney Morning Herald reports More flip-flop from the Malaysian Govt spokesman. http://www.smh.com.au/world...-20140329-zqoib.html
quote
Kuala Lumpur: After three weeks of fruitless searching for any evidence of missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, the Malaysian government said on Saturday it had not fully given up hope of finding survivors.
Although aviation experts have said there is no chance of survival, acting transport minister and defence minister Hishammuddin Hussein told the distraught relatives in the Malaysian capital that there was still a remote chance.
Searchers for Malaysian Air Flight 370 said objects retrieved from the Indian Ocean are rubbish with no evidence they are related to the missing plane as the hunt for the jetliner enters its fourth week.
The objects recovered were “fishing equipment and flotsam,” Andrea Hayward-Maher, a spokeswoman for the Australian Maritime Safety Authority, said by phone today. It was the first time that material had been picked up.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-30-2014).]
got to looking at the "arc of last contact" based on the last ping at 8:11 am, played around with MS paint and decided it could have reached the farthest end of the arc by about 7 or the near end by 4 am. so the airplane either (1)continued to "wander" around for an hour or several to reach the line at 8:11, (2) was moving slower than optimal, or (3) had set down somewhere. since the engine status system supposedly quits when the engine shuts down, i'd have to go with #1 or #2. interesting problem, not enough data, too much chaff.
#2 flies contrary to what the sat anal-ists said. It's their assertion the plane was flying faster, burning more fuel, and entered the water sooner than originally pre-dick-ted.
One of the 'objects' in the most recently reported "debris field":
An object floats in the southern Indian Ocean in this picture taken from a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion aircraft searching for missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-30-2014).]
Used to be all internation flights were with seaplanes. Pan Am Clippers flew all over that area. Maybe they should bring back seaplanes for longer flights over water.
"Will we ever know what happened to Malaysia Flight MH-370"
It's not looking good. It's been 37 days.......nothing. Some investigators aren't even convinced the pings they had heard were from the aircraft. Last ping was 6 days ago. Since then-- silence, and the 'experts" believe the batteries have died inside the on-board devices. Not one speck of debris associated with the airliner has ever been found, and now, the underwater robot/submersible has found the Indian Ocean at the last "ping site" exceeds the sub's 15,000 depth limit. It went down for a planned 16 hour search mission and aborted after 6 hours. Australia's Ocean Shield ship will stop searching for acoustic signals, given the strong likelihood that the batteries of the black box recorders have now expired and will no longer transmit signals. The air and surface search for debris will also be completed in the next two to three days as chances of finding wreckage "have greatly diminished," Joint Search Coordinator Angus Houston said.
Have there been other flights of this size that have been "given up" on? I'm sure there's a list somewhere but I can't think of the right terms to search for. The whole thing just seems odd. I want to fast forward 20 years to watch the special on the history channel where some guy and his team went out in search of the 'ghost plane' and found it.
I'm not jumping to conspiracy theories, but it does make me wonder what lengths a government would go to hide something that might give their enemies information as to their capabilities. For example, if we had high res satellite video of the plane the whole time it traveled, that would say something about our satellite capabilities that might be beyond what other countries are aware of. Or if we were able to detect pings from the black box 20 miles away, or we had some special x-ray-vision-artificial-intelligence-grid-detector that scanned the whole planet and found the wreckage in a couple hours/days. These are extreme/absurd examples to make a point, but the question is "would you share info to aid in a search/rescue if the act of sharing that info compromised national security?"
Would I, if it fell under the extremely wide loop and too often used term of "National Security Issue"? Probably-----Yes. There is very little nowadays, in the modern political arena, that hasn't at one time or another been stuffed under that big ol' "national security" umbrella.
I'm not jumping to conspiracy theories, but it does make me wonder what lengths a government would go to hide something that might give their enemies information as to their capabilities. ... the question is "would you share info to aid in a search/rescue if the act of sharing that info compromised national security?"
I'm not privy to such information, but I think you seriously overestimate our capabilities. Yes, we can obtain very detailed imagery of an object once we know it's precise location, but the world's oceans represent a huge area to scan for passive targets ... much less for targets that don't want to be found.
That said, I have no doubt that any information from "hits" obtained via advanced surveillance technology would be intentionally degraded prior to public disclosure in order to obscure our real capabilities. Adding informational "noise" to data is relatively easy.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
It's been 37 days.......Last ping was 6 days ago. Since then-- silence, and the 'experts" believe the batteries have died inside the on-board devices.
I wonder about that. 30 days should have been the required minimum battery capacity, rather than a typical operational lifetime. Then again, the maintenance history of the airplane's locator devices is unknown, and at a depth of more than 12,000 feet and a temperature near freezing it's hard to predict how long any electronic device would remain operational.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-15-2014).]
I'm not privy to such information, but I think you seriously overestimate our capabilities.
My examples were purposely absurd. But for example, something that might be more within our capabilities (though maybe not believable in this situation) is say a passenger liner unknowingly enters restricted airspace for a military exercise that is "off the record" due to politics or treaties or other "cold war" what-have-you stuff. Satellites fixed on the area, see the whole thing, know where it went and what happened, but everyone acts ignorant to protect the secrecy of the operation, or even distributes misinformation to protect the area for a "cleanup" period.
Again, not saying anything like that happened, but I'm sure there's people in high places that could work against search and rescue teams, for whatever reason.
In MY opinion, IF the government knew, and there was a chance of survivors they would have spoke up in some way hinted or leaked the data, however if they felt there was zero chance or near zero chance that there was anyone to even look for, it would be kept silent. Who knows, its possible the plane was hijacked and shot down to protect something and again governments don't want it found, or was hijacked and the landed, and the government did find it, then found out that all the people had been executed by the hijackers and decided it would be better for the family's to believe that everyone died in a crash then to know they were executed.
There are a million plausible things to consider, however we just have to chalk it up to one of those "we will never know" things.
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"..an Australian company's claim to have located aircraft wreckage on the sea floor in the northern Bay of Bengal -- thousands of miles from the search area scanned meticulously for weeks to the south.
The company's technology is often used to help clients find mineral deposits for mining, but GeoResonance also has participated in the hunt for old warships or aircraft on the ocean floor.
"During the search for MH370, GeoResonance searched for chemical elements that make up a Boeing 777: aluminum, titanium, copper, steel alloys, jet fuel residue, and several other substances. The aim was to find a location where all those elements were present," said the company in the written statement.
Scanning "multispectral images" taken from the air on March 10 -- two days after Flight 370 went missing -- GeoResonance says it found "an anomaly in one place in the Bay of Bengal" where many of those relevant materials were detected in significant amounts, and in a pattern which matched the approximate layout of a large aircraft." http://www.cbsnews.com/news...cial-airliner-found/
Will we ever know what happened to Malaysia Flight MH-370? No.
Here is my conspiracy theory: The plane was re-routed to the middle east with the transponder off. The men and elderly were killed upon exiting the plane. The women and children were rushed off and sold into the sex trade and the plane dismantled for scrap. Yep, lots of doom and gloom, but that is the world we live in and our fellow humans suck.
Will we ever know what happened to Malaysia Flight MH-370? No.
Here is my conspiracy theory: The plane was re-routed to the middle east with the transponder off. The men and elderly were killed upon exiting the plane. The women and children were rushed off and sold into the sex trade and the plane dismantled for scrap. Yep, lots of doom and gloom, but that is the world we live in and our fellow humans suck.
Conspiracy theory indeed....
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
A recent article:
"..an Australian company's claim to have located aircraft wreckage on the sea floor in the northern Bay of Bengal -- thousands of miles from the search area scanned meticulously for weeks to the south.
The company's technology is often used to help clients find mineral deposits for mining, but GeoResonance also has participated in the hunt for old warships or aircraft on the ocean floor.
"During the search for MH370, GeoResonance searched for chemical elements that make up a Boeing 777: aluminum, titanium, copper, steel alloys, jet fuel residue, and several other substances. The aim was to find a location where all those elements were present," said the company in the written statement.
Scanning "multispectral images" taken from the air on March 10 -- two days after Flight 370 went missing -- GeoResonance says it found "an anomaly in one place in the Bay of Bengal" where many of those relevant materials were detected in significant amounts, and in a pattern which matched the approximate layout of a large aircraft." http://www.cbsnews.com/news...cial-airliner-found/
Outside satellite experts say investigators could be looking in the wrong ocean.
quote
Even before the black-box search turned up empty, observers had begun to raise doubts about whether searchers were looking in the right place. Authorities have treated the conclusion that the plane crashed in the ocean west of Australia as definitive, owing to a much-vaunted mathematical analysis of satellite signals sent by the plane. But scientists and engineers outside of the investigation have been working to verify that analysis, and many say that it just doesn’t hold up.
It took them what, 80 years to find the Titanic and they knew exactly where it sank. If it did hit the ocean, I think its unlikely they ever find anything. I still really dont believe it crashed in the ocean at all.
My theory is that it may have landed in Myanmar, and after taking what they needed; people, cargo, whatever; it was scuttled in the bay of Bengal. It is not beyond the realm of possibility.
"..an Australian company's claim to have located aircraft wreckage on the sea floor in the northern Bay of Bengal -- thousands of miles from the search area scanned meticulously for weeks to the south.
The company's technology is often used to help clients find mineral deposits for mining, but GeoResonance also has participated in the hunt for old warships or aircraft on the ocean floor.
"During the search for MH370, GeoResonance searched for chemical elements that make up a Boeing 777: aluminum, titanium, copper, steel alloys, jet fuel residue, and several other substances. The aim was to find a location where all those elements were present," said the company in the written statement.
Scanning "multispectral images" taken from the air on March 10 -- two days after Flight 370 went missing -- GeoResonance says it found "an anomaly in one place in the Bay of Bengal" where many of those relevant materials were detected in significant amounts, and in a pattern which matched the approximate layout of a large aircraft." http://www.cbsnews.com/news...cial-airliner-found/
I want to know what ever happened with this lead...
I want to know what ever happened with this lead...
The story has been largely ignored. Although it seems plausible to this admittedly untrained observer, the claim has been summarily dismissed, based on evidence that is shaky, at best. However, a search for “Bay of Bengal” or “GeoResonance” will still pull up a few stories.
I want to know what ever happened with this lead...
Found something but its not new. :
"MH370 officials leading the search and rescue (SAR) mission for Malaysia Airlines flight 370 have rejected evidence produced by an Adelaide-based technology company of materials exactly matching Boeing wreckage in the Bay of Bengal. Once again, the officials are refusing to investigate an independent lead.
GeoResonance, an exploration company, claims its sensor technology found materials that match a Boing 777 in the Bay of Bengal, south of Bangladesh, in the northern part of the original search for the Malaysia Airline System (MAS) Boeing 777.
The Malaysia officials have rejected a list of independent findings and even eyewitness reports throughout the aftermath of the hijacking. They have announced that they cannot say or do anything without unanimous agreement of the official team. That official team is weighted heavily with United States authorities.
The marine exploration company, specialising in geophysical surveys to find oil, gas, groundwater and uranium, did not declare the discovery is MH370, it says the possibility should be investigated. Australia’s Joint Agency Co-ordination Centre (JACC), that is leading the search, said the location of MH370 suggested by the company report was not in the Australian search and rescue zone, so they will not investigate it. Nevertheless, JACC said it was satisfied that the Boeing 777 was in the southern part of the search arc. It is doubtful that 239 passengers’ family members, mainly from China, are equally satisfied.
The Bay of Bengal, where the exploration company located Boeing wreckage materials, is between India and Myanmar, thousands of miles from the present official search area.
GeoResonance expressed surprise and disappointment by lack of response from the various authorities.
Also this week, an Australian businessman has claimed a possible MH370 sighting in the Indian Ocean near Bali, close to the present search area. In an exclusive e-mail conversation with International Business Times (India), 34-year-old Antonio Bongiovanni from Melbourne, said that while travelling from Melbourne to Bali, four days after the MH370 crisis began, he noticed what appeared to be a “white shadow of a plane.”
A remarkable image of a large plane also has been found and reported this week. New York pilot Michael Hoebel, 60, found an image of what appears to be a wrecked jet in the Gulf of Thailand, where the Boeing 777 made its last communication with air traffic authorities the morning of March 8. Judging from officials’ dismissing other independent findings, it is doubtful Hoebel’s findings will be investigated.
Officials refused to investigate and the public was advised not to believe 20 Maldives islanders, who reported seeing an odd, low-flying jumbo jet at the time the aircraft could have been in its area. Top officials told the world, as well as the islanders, not to believe what people see and hear. The military ordered Malaysian officials to reject those eyewitness reports. Fuerthermore, the Maldives was excluded from the 25 countries participating in the search and rescue (SAR) countries, despite being nearby in the Indian Ocean area where the plane was thought to have flown.
A Malaysia Airlines System’s Boeing 777 was carrying 239 people from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing when it officials claim it vanished on March 8. At the same time, a second MAS Boeing 777′s activities were highly suspicious, as were activities by the airline itself regarding that aircraft.
Timelines and flight paths of both planes have been independently compiled, supported by official airline data, radar reports and maps. Last week, a Malaysia official indicated another jet was involved in the hijack operation.
Officials admit that much of the MH370 data is sealed. Under pressure, a Malaysian team told relatives of Chinese passengers on flight MH370 that sealed evidence cannot be made public, admitting a coverup. The sealed evidence included an air traffic control radio transcript, radar data and airport security recordings, according to the statement.
The military hid radar data for ten days into the search. Thailand’s military spokesperson admitted its radar detected a plane that might have been Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 minutes after the jetliner’s communications were turned off, raising questions about countries withholding defense information, even amid humanitarian crises.
At that time, Thailand’s military was participating with the U.S. military in a training exercise in the region where the MAS Boeing and its passengers were “disappeared,” an “unforgivable” component to the 239 missing persons said to have boarded an MAS Boeing at a Kuala Lumpur airport gate that was changed at the last minute. "
It was pointed out on the radio yesterday, theres been no mention of it for days. Priorities change...now everyone is worried about a gay football player or a horse wearing a nose strip.
