Wow, your engine is so nice and clean. Mine is at home waiting for me to get started on it. Nice work. Thanks for alla the pics, they should come in very useful as I begin my swap.
Great work. But you spent a lot of time on the engine and powdercoating all the eingine dres parts. but you missed a lot of key parts that i know i look for. engine cradle, a arms, BATTERY TRAY RUST WTF. All in all love the color and it sucks your paint is falling off your manifolds. It will fall off your egr valve too, it did to me. Great job. I am working on a timeing issue my self at the moment.
Right now I'm serving a mission for the LDS church in IL., but as soon as I get home to Las Vegas in a year, I'd love to get together with you all and buy another fiero and do this to it. Man I've always loved all four of the fieros I had, and when I get home, I hope I can get together with ya'll.
By the way, on the 14th-15th, there's gonna be an auto show here in my area here in IL. that I will be attending. If anyone is there on the 15th, I'll be hard to miss. Just look for two guys in white shirts and ties with black nametags.
Just completed a 3.4 swap using a 70K mile 1995 Firebird 3.4 engine. I printed out your build and used it during the entire swap. It really helped tremendously.
I used Rodney's Jig for the starter bolt alignment - it was dead on - it shimmed exactly as it was with the 2.8 and the gear teeth meshed perfectly the first time. If anybody decides to do this, just remember to use plenty of cutting oil (I used 3in1 oil) to keep the drill bits and taps from binding and cracking. I also recommend using a Melling high-flow oil pump - it is available from Autozone for less money than the stock pump for some reason - you'll need to use the 3.4 syphon tube as the 2.8 tube is a smaller diameter.
The part number for the flywheel was a particular lifesaver as I did not have a neutrally balanced flywheel.
Some other helpful advice I learned - remove the rear main seal by drilling a small hole into the flat of the seal (be careful of the bearing surface) tap a screw into the hole and give a yank with a pair of pump pliers - it comes right out! You can drive the seal in easily with a short length of 3" Schedule 40 PVC pipe a block of wood and a hammer. The pipe fits perfectly over the seal.
I ultrasonic cleaned all of the Firebird fuel injectors, ported my exhaust headers and ports, gasket matched the entire intake from the throttle body to the heads and installed 1.6 ratio rockers during the build - I figure the engine should be putting out 180-190 HP. I also used Rodney's Poly Motor and Trans Mounts - their quality is top-notch. Don't forget to buy his brass adapter for the oil pressure sending unit, it's only a couple of dollars. A new clutch assembly went in also. A new timing chain, chain damper, water pump, distributor, Accel 8.8 ignition wires and coil were used also.
Finally, check your 3.4 carefully - after reassembling mine and putting it back in the Fiero, I cranked it with the ignition wire to distributor disconnected to build up pressure and lubricate everything prior to starting up - and oil came pouring out from between the trans and engine rear. I was working in 95° weather most of the time and never noticed that an oil galley plug was missing from the rear of the engine - I spent an entire day pulling the motor out, fixing a new plug and reinstalling. My recommendation is to pressure check everything using a drill to drive the oil pump while the engine is still on the stand - can save a lot of unnecessary work.
[This message has been edited by NewGT (edited 07-27-2005).]
You don't need a starter jig. I have done two without, both came out perfect. And for the adapter for the oil sender if you have A/C. You can get one at Pep Boys Auto Parts, MotorMite# 43228, it is labeled 5/16" to 1/4".
Jason (BrewCheese), Here's the info from NIFE on the show.
August 14-15, 2005 15th annual Indian Uprising All Pontiac Car Show sponsored by Cruisin' Tiger's GTO Club at the Kane County Events Center (on Kirk Road/Farnsworth just south of Route 38).
This plug caused me the MOST trouble. It is a plug you need to swap with a sensor on the other head. It is smaller than a 3/8 ratchet, so I had to grind down an extention, but I broke that three times, then I tried a craftsman extention and broke that too, I ended up sticking a magnet on the head and drilling it out. I put in the sensor and just put in a broken sensor on the other side so I could get it out if I ever wanted. Snap-on sells a tool made for this for $12.95 so If you ever do this type of swap I recomend getting this socket. (you can order online) I just did not have time to wait and destroyed the plug trying. Most come out no problem, just not mine.
Here is the plug
And the sensor
I'm about to do this swap in a couple of months and just am trying to work out ALL the details. Now why did you transfer this sensor and plug if you didn't need it anyway?
I'm about to do this swap in a couple of months and just am trying to work out ALL the details. Now why did you transfer this sensor and plug if you didn't need it anyway?
Well the sensor on the 3.4L you can leave in to fill the hole if you want. But the plug you have to pull out. It is where a temp sensor goes. (this sensor controls the temp guage and the temp light) it is the sensor by the coil in the corner of the head on the 2.8L. On the 3.4L it has a plug, so you need to transfer the sensor from the 2.8L to where the pulg is on the 3.4L.
Originally posted by sardonyx247: Well the sensor on the 3.4L you can leave in to fill the hole if you want. But the plug you have to pull out. It is where a temp sensor goes. (this sensor controls the temp guage and the temp light) it is the sensor by the coil in the corner of the head on the 2.8L. On the 3.4L it has a plug, so you need to transfer the sensor from the 2.8L to where the pulg is on the 3.4L.
I am going to be using a brand new 3.4 shortblock from napa and the heads from 1 of my 2.8s. Since I am using the 2.8 heads with the sensor could I skip that step? Is there another sensor in the block like a cam or crank sensor that I will have to plug? I will be working with a brand new bottom end so I am not sure what will come with it.
I heard about having to drill out a hole in the bellhousing, did you do that? Do you have pics of what hole to drill out?
I am going to be using a brand new 3.4 shortblock from napa and the heads from 1 of my 2.8s. Since I am using the 2.8 heads with the sensor could I skip that step? Is there another sensor in the block like a cam or crank sensor that I will have to plug? I will be working with a brand new bottom end so I am not sure what will come with it.
I heard about having to drill out a hole in the bellhousing, did you do that? Do you have pics of what hole to drill out?
The 2.8 head won't have a plug there, and may even still have the sensor in it. No plug to remove, just make sure the sensor is there and working.
There are both a cam and crank sensor on the 3.4 block. The cam sensor is just below where the thermostat will go, and the crank sensor is in the side of the block near the oil filter. My 3.4 came out of a car and had the sensors in it, so I just unplugged them and left them there to fill the holes. I believe West Coast Fiero sells plugs meant to eliminate those sensors.
As for the bell housing, you shouldn't have to mess with it at all. All the work is done on the block. You will have to drill and tap new starter holes on the other side of the block (oil filter side) and, IF you are using an automatic, you will have to grind off some of the block to clear the auto tranny. Sardonyx has pictures of it a few pages back in this thread.
The last thing that I had to do pertaining to the 3.4L swap. The bottom rightmost bolt hole in the 3.4L block is threaded, where as the 2.8L is NOT. The threads have to be drilled out so the bolt can pass through and go into the threads on the transmission. I used a 1/2in bit, which was about the size of the hole on the 2.8L
I will be getting the Rodney starter relocation kit, so the starter is not an issue for me. Just the little bugs that bite you in the ass. I was wondering are the timing chain, gear and cam gear the same for all 60* V6s? As far as the driveline shock is concerned do you have more detailed pictures of that install? My car DID have A/C but I yanked it. Will that matter for the driveline mounting?
[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 07-31-2005).]
I will be getting the Rodney starter relocation kit, so the starter is not an issue for me. Just the little bugs that bite you in the ass. I was wondering are the timing chain, gear and cam gear the same for all 60* V6s? As far as the driveline shock is concerned do you have more detailed pictures of that install? My car DID have A/C but I yanked it. Will that matter for the driveline mounting?
I think the GM crate engines 3.4L come with the starter holes allready drilled, as they sell it as an upgrade for a S10. The shock mount will bolt right up to the block useing 2 of the 3 holes. If you DON'T have A/C then just bolt it up no mod there. You don't need the starter jig, it is EASY to do without one.
Originally posted by sardonyx247: I think the GM crate engines 3.4L come with the starter holes allready drilled, as they sell it as an upgrade for a S10. The shock mount will bolt right up to the block useing 2 of the 3 holes. If you DON'T have A/C then just bolt it up no mod there. You don't need the starter jig, it is EASY to do without one.
I am about to start another 3.4L swap too.
The gm crate 3.4 cost about 3 times as much as a napa shortblock. I have tried everyawy to get the cheapest swap and have some go fast goodies. I will be getting the spec stage 3, fidanza 8lb flywheel, and I bought an h260 for my 2.8 but will use that on the 3.4. So performance mods are nill. I just want to drive my car again. I don't want to phuk the starter holes up, I'm good at phuking things up.....it's my speciality. I have complete confidence in all the other stuff that is involved with the swap. just the little stuff was confusing.
The 93-95 3.4 Camero/Firebird is the only car I think it came in. The GM crate is sold as an upgrade for the S-10. You want the 3.4 with the iron heads, not aluminum.
Just do what I did, call EVERY yard in the phone book. They varied in price from $400 +$50 core to >$1200. So just call around, some places won't have one, some might have a bunch. They all had different prices.
I was wondering, what car and year has the best 3.4 engine? I have heard that the FWD cars come a roller cam. Is this true? Will it make or break the swap? I just got an 87 GT and the engine is knocking. So I am going to swap it out for a 3.4.
------------------ WWW.CLEVELANDFIEROS.COM //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052322.html#lastpost My rear defuser It will be painted at the end of summer!
I was wondering, what car and year has the best 3.4 engine? I have heard that the FWD cars come a roller cam. Is this true? Will it make or break the swap? I just got an 87 GT and the engine is knocking. So I am going to swap it out for a 3.4.
Like Sardonyx was saying, the only car that ever came with the 3.4 V6 is the 1993-1995 Camaro/Firebird. They're all the same. Or, you can get the crate engine from GM, but if you put it in a Fiero, it invalidates the warranty because its supposed to be used in a RWD set up, not a FWD one. The 3.1 V6 out of the early 90s minivans had a roller cam stock. Its essentially the same swap, but you can't upgrade the cam and you have less displacement and output. Don't get a 3400 engine or any other like that out of a Grand Am or whatever, they're not even close to the same engine and will not be an easy swap like the Camaro/Firebird 3.4.
Like Sardonyx was saying, the only car that ever came with the 3.4 V6 is the 1993-1995 Camaro/Firebird. They're all the same. Or, you can get the crate engine from GM, but if you put it in a Fiero, it invalidates the warranty because its supposed to be used in a RWD set up, not a FWD one. The 3.1 V6 out of the early 90s minivans had a roller cam stock. Its essentially the same swap, but you can't upgrade the cam and you have less displacement and output. Don't get a 3400 engine or any other like that out of a Grand Am or whatever, they're not even close to the same engine and will not be an easy swap like the Camaro/Firebird 3.4.
on the 3.1 there are more than 1...the iron head 3.1 from lumina APVs and a 3100 in grand ams. I just did the 3.1 swap and put a comp cams 260 in it. it runs like a bat out of hell.
I'm about to do this swap in a couple of months and just am trying to work out ALL the details. Now why did you transfer this sensor and plug if you didn't need it anyway?
I ground down a grade 8 bolt to a square end - inserted it into the plug and turned the wrench - came out no problems
[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-10-2006).]
Getting that plug out? Was not so easy for me. I ground down an extension broke that a few times, tried a Craftsman extension, broke that a few times too. Untill it broke off in the plug flush and couldn't get that out. Had to drill it with a magnet to catch the filings. Same thing happened on the next 3.4 Swap I did too. Like I said before, it was the hardest part of the whole swap. And not being too hard the whole swap wasn't bad at all. Next time I will buy the Snap-On tool made for it, they seem to be the only ones who sell one.
I found this square shaped tool. I don't know if it was a nail set or some other kind of tap or what, but it was only about 4 inches long and tapered. I just cut it where it tapered the the right size for the plug, then tapped it in and grabbed it with a cresent wrench and unscrewed the plug. Pretty easy once I found the tool.
Thanks for the great info! You have me really wanting to work on this swap! Way to keep us motivated! I'm using too many sentences that end in exclamation points! Help! I can't stop!
