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3800 Conversion Mounts are back ! by PURPLE REIGN
Started on: 10-30-2006 02:46 AM
Replies: 696 (49148 views)
Last post by: Twoolz on 05-07-2017 11:47 AM
Matthew_Fiero
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Report this Post07-18-2007 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Matthew_FieroSend a Private Message to Matthew_FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:
Matthew ............please tell me your not waiting for mounts !!!!??? Those were shipped at the end of May and should have been through customs by now.

As for the Alt bracket, I'm nearing the end of the run of 9 brackets.


Please send me a bracket so I can at least put the motor IN.

It needs to be in before July 24th or I am evicted from my complex.

Thank you

Matthew
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Report this Post07-19-2007 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

What sort of modification do I need to do for manual install on an '88?


+1
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Report this Post07-21-2007 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Matthew_FieroSend a Private Message to Matthew_FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump
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Report this Post07-21-2007 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still waiting to hear what modification I need for an '88 manual install. . .
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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post07-22-2007 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Still waiting to hear what modification I need for an '88 manual install. . .


Once the engine is mounted you'll see the holes on the "pad" where the front engine mount sits on the 88 cradle, dont quite line up & need to be redrilled in the pad.
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Report this Post07-22-2007 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How soon could you have me a set, could you have one delivered by august 9th?
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Report this Post07-22-2007 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Earl-RSend a Private Message to Earl-REdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:


Once the engine is mounted you'll see the holes on the "pad" where the front engine mount sits on the 88 cradle, dont quite line up & need to be redrilled in the pad.



I sent you a E-mail, I was wondering if you got it?


------------------
87 Fiero GT
Yellow / Grey Interior
T-Top, 11.26" brakes, Lowered 2"
Whaletail, Mecham Scoops, ZR2 Scoop
T/A Fender Vents, Mr. Mikes, Much Much More

86 SE Red - 3400 SFI

Formerly FieroGT87

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Matthew_Fiero
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Report this Post07-22-2007 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Matthew_FieroSend a Private Message to Matthew_FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any update?

I have all of monday to install my 3800.. I hope its here before 8am!

Edit: thats about 15hrs from now from this post, plenty of time,

[This message has been edited by Matthew_Fiero (edited 07-22-2007).]

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Report this Post07-23-2007 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Matthew_FieroSend a Private Message to Matthew_FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would like a refund for the engine bracket as I found someone who will ship me one.

It never arrived today and I will probably get my eviction notice tomorrow

I ordered the bracket months and months ago to prepare for this day!

Edit: Please send the modded alt bracket asap, its been too long!

[This message has been edited by Matthew_Fiero (edited 07-23-2007).]

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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post07-24-2007 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Matthew_Fiero:

I would like a refund for the engine bracket as I found someone who will ship me one.

It never arrived today and I will probably get my eviction notice tomorrow

I ordered the bracket months and months ago to prepare for this day!

Edit: Please send the modded alt bracket asap, its been too long!



MY BAD!!!!! I REALLY apologize. I went back through all the invoices from that time to find there was 2 orders to Canada when I thought there was only one. So the one order that got shipped went to a different forum member.

I'm so sorry, as I could have had them there.

I'll get the Alt bracket out ASAP

If there is anything else I can help with let me know...............................................I feel like such an IDIOT

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 07-24-2007).]

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Report this Post07-24-2007 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Again, do you have the manual '88 mounts on the shelf, ready to be shipped out?

I have money in hand.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 07-24-2007).]

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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post07-24-2007 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Again, do you have the manual '88 mounts on the shelf, ready to be shipped out?

I have money in hand.



Another batch will be finished by the weekend.................
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Report this Post07-24-2007 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:


Another batch will be finished by the weekend.................


Please, Please, Please, PM me as soon as you get them. Honestly, I'm hesitant because of reading, but when you have them in hand, I'll happily throw money your way.
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Report this Post07-27-2007 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So do you have them?
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Report this Post07-27-2007 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Matthew_FieroSend a Private Message to Matthew_FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:


MY BAD!!!!! I REALLY apologize. I went back through all the invoices from that time to find there was 2 orders to Canada when I thought there was only one. So the one order that got shipped went to a different forum member.

I'm so sorry, as I could have had them there.

I'll get the Alt bracket out ASAP

If there is anything else I can help with let me know...............................................I feel like such an IDIOT



Its ok, I have another engine mount on its way. Just please refund the $60 for the engine bracket and whatever extra shipping was. Then please please mark the alternator bracket as a repaired item. or I will get charged over $60 in duty.

Matthew

[This message has been edited by Matthew_Fiero (edited 07-27-2007).]

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Report this Post08-01-2007 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump, do you have a COMPLETE set yet?
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Report this Post08-01-2007 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for daniel87fierogtSend a Private Message to daniel87fierogtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey shawn. Did you happen to get my alternator bracket shipped out yet. I really need it to finish the swap. Thanks Daniel
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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-02-2007 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Bump, do you have a COMPLETE set yet?


Should in the morning.

 
quote
Originally posted by daniel87fierogt:

Hey shawn. Did you happen to get my alternator bracket shipped out yet. I really need it to finish the swap. Thanks Daniel


Got 4 brackets finished today...................yours is one of them. Final fittment & hardware, then ship it.

Thanks for your patience Daniel..........as these things are a nightmare to make and there are 9 here to do.
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Report this Post08-03-2007 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I sent you a PM...
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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-04-2007 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Bump, do you have a COMPLETE set yet?


Complete sets are ready.......................
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Report this Post08-05-2007 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nhestoClick Here to visit nhesto's HomePageSend a Private Message to nhestoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Purple I am still waiting on my alt bracket, i told you that i needed it by the 8th of Aug and you told me that it would be no problem, now it is already the 5th of the month and i am pretty sure that i am going to have to push all of my plans back because of this. everything else concerning my engine is on hold all because i don't have my bracket. i have been trying to get in contact with you and i hardly ever get an answer, the last time that we talked you told me that it would be no problem and right now you only have 2 days to get it to me. i'm not saying that it can't be done but it sure looks like i'm not going to have them in time.
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Report this Post08-05-2007 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nhestoClick Here to visit nhesto's HomePageSend a Private Message to nhestoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

nhesto

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also will the alt bracket work with a 3800 alt?
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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-05-2007 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nhesto:

also will the alt bracket work with a 3800 alt?


Yes ....................... I run with a Riviera Alternator....................

Also your bracket is in the box ready to ship in the morning...........2 day priority, so it will be there the morning of the 8th.
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Report this Post08-06-2007 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nhestoClick Here to visit nhesto's HomePageSend a Private Message to nhestoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thanks once you get the shipping info then give it to me.
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Report this Post08-06-2007 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nhesto:

thanks once you get the shipping info then give it to me.


Sent this morning at 9:00 A.M. tracking # as follows EB 428547923 US

Guaranteed by 3:00 on Weds. Paypal the remainder.
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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-09-2007 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Go figure..........................I meet the deadline, and even pay extra to 2 day air it and get stiffed for the Paypal amount
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Report this Post08-09-2007 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PR, for your own good, this is why I have ignored your PM's. I'm still debating if I want to go through you or not. The reasoning is as follows, this is what I've read over the last 3 pages. . .

 
quote
when are mine going to be shipped out? i paid 2 weeks ago


 
quote
Bump for delivery???!

 
quote
Just checking to see if you have sent out that set for a manual yet. Thanks

Steve

 
quote
Bump for mine as well.

 
quote
I hope you do get mine shipped out this week, as I had it sent to you months ago.. I should be driving by now!

 
quote

Sorry for the delay. The # of brackets skyrocketed to 8 and I was planning on visiting the welder only once. It WILL be done soon.

 
quote
MY BAD!!!!! I REALLY apologize. I went back through all the invoices from that time to find there was 2 orders to Canada when I thought there was only one. So the one order that got shipped went to a different forum member.

I'm so sorry, as I could have had them there.
I'll get the Alt bracket out ASAP

 
quote
Another batch will be finished by the weekend.................


You seemingly have no problem being there when you want to pitch a sale, but when It comes time to deliever, you fail. This is also perhaps why people are taking back paypal. From what I've heard, you have other issues. Friendly man to man advice, don't let that effect what you do. Keep work at work and personal stuff at home. When you walk out of that door, you're still going into the real world, and as such, treat it accordingly.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-09-2007).]

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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-09-2007 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

PR, for your own good, this is why I have ignored your PM's. I'm still debating if I want to go through you or not. The reasoning is as follows, this is what I've read over the last 3 pages. . .


You seemingly have no problem being there when you want to pitch a sale, but when It comes time to deliever, you fail This is also perhaps why people are taking back paypal. From what I've heard, you have other issues. Friendly man to man advice, don't let that effect what you do. Keep work at work and personal stuff at home. When you walk out of that door, you're still going into the real world, and as such, treat it accordingly.


First off most of those quotes looking for thier items are for the Alt brackets, which are the worst pain in the a$$ to make, with the need of the Fiero bracket and expensive hardware. Not to mention I have a guy who is a certified aluminum welder doing these who works 2 jobs. So getting 9 brackets done is really hard. Secondly I do this in my supposed spare time, NOT AS A PROFESSION. Third, the mounts are also TIG welded and done when the welder has time.

Not that I'm going to sit and make excuses, but I do this more as a service to the Fiero community since the only other vendor out there that makes these is useless. So if thats all you have to whine about is a few people that didnt get thier stuff on thier clock, then I dont need the hassle. I already have one member on here ( NHESTO ) that has stiffed me on an Alt bracket. At this rate I'll sell off the remaining stock of mounts to Loyde and give up this service completly.

And lastly, not a single one has "taken back Paypal" so get your information from another source.

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 08-09-2007).]

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Report this Post08-10-2007 08:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN:


First off most of those quotes looking for thier items are for the Alt brackets, which are the worst pain in the a$$ to make, with the need of the Fiero bracket and expensive hardware. Not to mention I have a guy who is a certified aluminum welder doing these who works 2 jobs. So getting 9 brackets done is really hard. Secondly I do this in my supposed spare time, NOT AS A PROFESSION. Third, the mounts are also TIG welded and done when the welder has time.

Not that I'm going to sit and make excuses, but I do this more as a service to the Fiero community since the only other vendor out there that makes these is useless. So if thats all you have to whine about is a few people that didnt get thier stuff on thier clock, then I dont need the hassle. I already have one member on here ( NHESTO ) that has stiffed me on an Alt bracket. At this rate I'll sell off the remaining stock of mounts to Loyde and give up this service completly.

And lastly, not a single one has "taken back Paypal" so get your information from another source.




So I sit here and try to think, "Perhaps I didn't show the tact I would have liked to?" I agree that this is a service to the community, but if you're going to offer this service, please do so in a professional manner. I was honestly letting you know, from an outside potential buyers perspective, what I had witnessed. I had to ask you questions several times to get an answer, yet when you have the mounts ready, you are quick to PM me a couple of times and say "Gimme money, gimme money, gimme money" (to a degree). Regardless, my last post was merely a suggestion. This being said, I'm glad I get to see your character, as my concerns are regarded as 'whining' and instead of cordially informing me of everything, you snap back.
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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-11-2007 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:
So I sit here and try to think, "Perhaps I didn't show the tact I would have liked to?" I agree that this is a service to the community, but if you're going to offer this service, please do so in a professional manner. I was honestly letting you know, from an outside potential buyers perspective, what I had witnessed. I had to ask you questions several times to get an answer, yet when you have the mounts ready, you are quick to PM me a couple of times and say "Gimme money, gimme money, gimme money" (to a degree). Regardless, my last post was merely a suggestion. This being said, I'm glad I get to see your character, as my concerns are regarded as 'whining' and instead of cordially informing me of everything, you snap back.



..........................................and no I dont say " Gimme money, Gimme money " ......................I have NEVER said that to anyone, and I prefer they keep it until the product is ready to ship.

If only your "mere suggestion" or "cordially inform" didnt come accross as a cocky, big father, attitude then maybe it wouldnt look like whining.
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Report this Post08-11-2007 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

PURPLE REIGN

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a

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 08-11-2007).]

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MOBILE
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Report this Post08-11-2007 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MOBILESend a Private Message to MOBILEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To add light to this in a more polite manner, Shawn does not have a normal job. He works on a customer influenced schedule, meaning most of his customers at his shop just drop off their car (at all and old hours) and need it done right now with no appointment or notice. Probably because that is thier only car and now it's broke.......

Where I'm going with all this is, when Shawn says your products are going to be ready or shipping, most of the time they will, but when a big fire drill happens at the shop, his "side job" of making fiero parts get put on hold. Part of the fire drill means not having time to call or PM until the chaos is over.........

So to sum things up, DON'T order mounts for a certain date and take a week off of work starting the day they are supposed to arrive. You guys have to plan ahead and gather all your necessary parts before hand. Even with full blown manufacturing companies I deal with in Aviation, parts are always behind.

I'm not flaming anyone or anything, I'm just trying to give some helpful advise.


Thanks,
MOBILE

P.S. A free honest plug for Shawn. I see him slaving over these, drilling, grinding, painting, ALL BY HAND!! They are the finest available, and worth the wait as the previous posts indicate. THERE IS NO WAY IN H&LL I WOULD DO THIS MUCH WORK FOR THIS LITTLE MONEY!!

I Love all you guys, and would help with any tech stuff anytime, but shawn does slave labor just cause he likes fieros. Nobody ever said he was normal

------------------


Member MN Fieros Forever
Self Installed SC3800/getrag. 13 years in Car Audio and Car Electronics Experiance........ 19"s.. w/ 13" Brakes all around.

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Report this Post08-11-2007 04:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MOBILE:

P.S. A free honest plug for Shawn. I see him slaving over these, drilling, grinding, painting, ALL BY HAND!! They are the finest available, and worth the wait as the previous posts indicate. THERE IS NO WAY IN H&LL I WOULD DO THIS MUCH WORK FOR THIS LITTLE MONEY!!

I Love all you guys, and would help with any tech stuff anytime, but shawn does slave labor just cause he likes fieros. Nobody ever said he was normal




FINE THEN!!
Now he is going to slave over some more of these mounts and such, just for me. (JOKE in spirit or previous post)

I need: a complete set for 3800, and a lower alt mount. (Fiero is 1988 Formula, Auto Im using the 3800 and the 4T60 from the 3800)
Need anymore information just ask. No time limit, I am "gathering parts."

So get to work. (I mean this in a nice way.)
------------------
1988 Fiero Formula T-tops
CJB 143 of 1252 "factory T-top cars"

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 08-11-2007).]

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Report this Post08-11-2007 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

htexans1

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(double posted. LOL)

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 08-11-2007).]

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Report this Post08-11-2007 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nhestoClick Here to visit nhesto's HomePageSend a Private Message to nhestoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i am out of town but i will be back in town on tuesday, my girl told me that she thinks that the bracket came but she is not sure cause there was a problem with the address or something and it was being returned to the sender but she went and picked it up. once i get back in town and verify that it is the bracket and not another part i will send the paypal payment. thanks!
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PURPLE REIGN
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From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold
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Report this Post08-13-2007 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by htexans1:


FINE THEN!!
Now he is going to slave over some more of these mounts and such, just for me. (JOKE in spirit or previous post)

I need: a complete set for 3800, and a lower alt mount. (Fiero is 1988 Formula, Auto Im using the 3800 and the 4T60 from the 3800)
Need anymore information just ask. No time limit, I am "gathering parts."

So get to work. (I mean this in a nice way.)

Mounts are in stock...................I'm about 6 sets ahead of schedule I can box & ship mounts the same day.

And finishing 4 alt brackets. All of which are previously ordered.
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deathangel
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Report this Post08-15-2007 01:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for deathangelSend a Private Message to deathangelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
MOBILE, is right...guys....this dude is not the average one of us. He is doing us all a big favor, and it's your planning that screws you, not his. If you know that you are going to be doing a 3800 swap...why not get the mounts, get all of your other much needed equipment ordered, and payed for, before you start your swap. Because it is not this guys fault that you have dropped your engine, you've done all the work, and then, " oh crap, I need mounts". So for those of you who are doing or thinking about doing a swap...get your mounts now...dont wait until you car is in a shop on stands before the idea clicks that you need them....
By the way....PURPLE REIGN you have yourself another customer who will not push you for time...I need the works man..you have come highly recommended...
PM me your price, and any other info you need.

[This message has been edited by deathangel (edited 08-15-2007).]

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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-15-2007 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by deathangel:

MOBILE, is right...guys....this dude is not the average one of us. He is doing us all a big favor, and it's your planning that screws you, not his. If you know that you are going to be doing a 3800 swap...why not get the mounts, get all of your other much needed equipment ordered, and payed for, before you start your swap. Because it is not this guys fault that you have dropped your engine, you've done all the work, and then, " oh crap, I need mounts". So for those of you who are doing or thinking about doing a swap...get your mounts now...dont wait until you car is in a shop on stands before the idea clicks that you need them....
By the way....PURPLE REIGN you have yourself another customer who will not push you for time...I need the works man..you have come highly recommended...
PM me your price, and any other info you need.



THANKS

Mounts are still in stock. Still working on these dang Alt brackets.

Did you need a manual set or an auto set.

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Dave Gunsul
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Report this Post08-15-2007 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave GunsulSend a Private Message to Dave GunsulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MOBILE:
Nobody ever said he was normal




That's for sure! :P

------------------
" There was a lot of little kids there. I watched them flying, doing jumps, and having races. And I thought that all those little kids are going to grow up someday. And all those little kids are going to do the things we do. But for now, sledding is enough. I think it would be great if sledding were always enough, but it isn't."
--the perks of being a wallflower by stephen chbosky

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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post08-15-2007 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dave Gunsul:


That's for sure! :P


Ummmm................................" Pot.................? "

" Yes Kettle.........................."

" Your black !!! "
For crying out loud, just look at his signature !!!!?????

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 08-15-2007).]

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