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Live Round Found in England! by Doug85GT
Started on: 02-11-2014 09:09 AM
Replies: 259
Last post by: yellowstone on 02-19-2014 07:10 AM
newf
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Report this Post02-18-2014 08:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Heh, what ?
Nobody claimed the was a credible effort to ban all guns, till you brought up the silly notion..


I asked if there was such a movement, as I have heard it mentioned on PFF before, I was then assured there was a credible movement, but unfortunately no one can seem to back it up. More fear mongering to fire up the willing I guess.

 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Neither did anyone suggest that all cars be banned.

Umm, Exactly.

 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Do you avoid answering them too, ?
just kidding, .


Ha! Funny. Seriously though I answer most that are posed and answer honestly. I can't help it if sometimes my answers don't fit into someone elses preconceived notions of what my answer will (or should) be.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post02-18-2014 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaDirect Link to This Post
Cliff has a point... This is now the Newf thread.

Can anyone answer this man's question? Please? He really needs to get to his next question.
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newf
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Report this Post02-18-2014 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
Can anyone answer this man's question? Please? He really needs to get to his next question.


Yes please, I am waiting patiently for the proof to the claim that there is a a movement to ban all firearms in the U.S.

You know a movement that has some support (backed by a number of politicians maybe) not just some wacko with a internet site etc.

Or feel free to admit it's just more scare mongering
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Report this Post02-18-2014 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post02-18-2014 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZSend a Private Message to RWDPLZDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:

Yes please, I am waiting patiently for the proof to the claim that there is a a movement to ban all firearms in the U.S.


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Report this Post02-18-2014 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:




Oh good, do you have some examples? Or is the WTF indicating that the claim of a serious movement to ban all firearms in the U.S. would never gain traction by any political regime at the current time.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-18-2014).]

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Report this Post02-18-2014 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post

newf

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quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:



So still nothing?
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Report this Post02-18-2014 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:

I can't help it if sometimes my answers don't fit into someone elses preconceived notions of what my answer will (or should) be.


It's a historically effective method for propping up the "truth" the otherside wants promoted.
If you float, you're a witch, drown, and you're innocent.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-18-2014).]

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Report this Post02-18-2014 01:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:


Yes please, I am waiting patiently for the proof to the claim that there is a a movement to ban all firearms in the U.S.



Patiently would mean no more posts, just waiting.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Patiently would mean no more posts, just waiting.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


I strangely enjoy you here as a member. But you are beating a question you posted to near insanity. Reading back through a bit of this thread brought me to this. A few pebbles in a pool...

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Report this Post02-18-2014 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:


Ha! Funny. Seriously though I answer most that are posed and answer honestly. I can't help it if sometimes my answers don't fit into someone elses preconceived notions of what my answer will (or should) be.


I have posted examples of powerful people who tried to ban all guns. I guess you get to decide what is "credible". History has shown there are those who do want all guns banned, do you think that type of person does not exist anymore?
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Report this Post02-18-2014 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post

dennis_6

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Hey newf, would you say anything in this article is being pushed for?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 03:20 AM PST
How to Ban Guns: A step by step, long term process

by sporksFollow

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138 Comments / 138 New

It's nice that we're finally talking about gun control. It's very sad that it took such a terrible tragedy to talk about it, but I'm glad the conversation is happening. I hear a lot about assault weapon and large magazine bans, and whilst I'm supportive of that, it won't solve the problem. The vast majority of firearm deaths occur with handguns. Only about 5% of people killed by guns are killed by guns which would be banned in any foreseeable AWB.

Furthermore, there seems to be no talk about high powered rifles. What gun nuts don't want you to know is many target and hunting rifles are chambered in the same round (.223/5.56mm) that Lanza's assault weapon was. Even more guns are chambered for more powerful rounds, like the .30-06 or (my personal "favorite") 7.62x54R. Even a .22, the smallest round manufactured on a large scale, can kill easily. In fact, some say the .22 kills more people than any other round out there.

Again, I like that we're talking about assault weapons, machine guns, and high capacity clips. But it only takes one bullet out of one gun to kill a person. Remember the beltway sniper back in 2002? The one who killed a dozen odd people? Even though he used a bushmaster assault rifle, he only fired one round at a time before moving. He could have used literally any rifle sold in the US for his attacks.

The only way we can truly be safe and prevent further gun violence is to ban civilian ownership of all guns. That means everything. No pistols, no revolvers, no semiautomatic or automatic rifles. No bolt action. No breaking actions or falling blocks. Nothing. This is the only thing that we can possibly do to keep our children safe from both mass murder and common street violence.

Unfortunately, right now we can't. The political will is there, but the institutions are not. Honestly, this is a good thing. If we passed a law tomorrow banning all firearms, we would have massive noncompliance. What we need to do is establish the regulatory and informational institutions first. This is how we do it:

The very first thing we need is national registry. We need to know where the guns are, and who has them. Canada has a national firearms registry. We need to copy their model. We need a law demanding all firearms be registered to a national database. We need to know who has them and where they are. We need to make this as easy as possible for gun owners. The federal government provides the money and technical expertise, and the State police carry it out. Like a funded mandate. Most firearms already have a serial number on them, so it would really be a matter of taking the information already on the ATF form 4473 and putting it in a national database. I think about 6 months should be enough time.

Along with this, make private sales illegal. When a firearm is transferred, make it law that the registration must be updated. Again, make it super easy to do. Perhaps over, the internet. Dealers can log in by their FFLs and update the registration. Additionally, new guns are to be registered by the manufacturer. The object here is to create a clear paper trail from factory to distributor to dealer to owner. We want to encourage as much voluntary compliance as possible.

Now we get down to it. The registration period has passed. Now we have criminals without registered guns running around. Probably kooky types that "lost" them on a boat or something. So remember those ATF form 4473s? Those record every firearm sale, going back twenty years. And those have to be surrendered to the ATF on demand. So, we get those logbooks, and cross reference the names and addresses with the new national registry. Since most NRA types own two or (many) more guns, we can get an idea of who properly registered their guns and who didn't. For example, if we have a guy who purchased 6 guns over the course of 10 years, but only registered two of them, that raises a red flag.

Now, maybe he sold them or they got lost or something. But it gives us a good target for investigation. A nice visit by the ATF or state police to find out if he really does still have those guns would be certainly warranted. It's certainly not perfect. People may have gotten guns from parents or family, and not registered them. Perfect is the enemy of pretty darn good, as they say. This exercise isn't so much to track down every gun ever sold; the main idea would be to profile and investigate people that may not have registered their guns. As an example, I'm not so concerned with the guy who bought that bolt action Mauser a decade ago and doesn't have anything registered to his name. It's a pretty good possibility that he sold it, gave it away, or got rid of it somehow. And even if he didn't, that guy is not who I'm concerned with. I'm concerned that other guy who bought a half dozen assault weapons, registered two hunting rifles, and belongs to the NRA/GOA. He's the guy who warrants a raid.

So registration is the first step. Now that the vast majority are registered, we can do what we will. One good first step would be to close the registry to new registrations. This would, in effect, prevent new guns from being made or imported. This would put the murder machine corporations out of business for good, and cut the money supply to the NRA/GOA. As money dries up, the political capital needed for new controls will be greatly reduced.

There are a few other things I would suggest. I would suggest an immediate, national ban on concealed carry. A ban on internet sales of guns and ammunition is a no brainer. Microstamping would also be a very good thing. Even if the only thing it does is drive up costs, it could still lead to crimes being solved. I'm willing to try every advantage we can get.

A national Firearms Owner Identification Card might be good, but I'm not sure if it's necessary if we have a national database. We should also insist on comprehensive insurance and mandatory gun safes, subject to random, spot checks by local and federal law enforcement.

We must make guns expensive and unpopular, just like cigarettes. A nationwide, antigun campaign paid for by a per gun yearly tax paid by owners, dealers, and manufacturers would work well in this regard. We should also segway into an anti-hunting campaign, like those in the UK. By making hunting expensive and unpopular, we can make the transition to a gun free society much less of a headache for us.

I know this seems harsh, but this is the only way we can be truly safe. I don't want my kids being shot at by a deranged NRA member. I'm sure you don't either. So lets stop looking for short term solutions and start looking long term. Registration is the first step.

Tell Pres. Obama and democrats in congress to demand mandatory, comprehensive gun registration. It's the only way we can ban guns with any effectiveness.
http://www.dailykos.com/sto...ep-long-term-process
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Report this Post02-18-2014 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZSend a Private Message to RWDPLZDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:


Oh good, do you have some examples? Or is the WTF indicating that the claim of a serious movement to ban all firearms in the U.S. would never gain traction by any political regime at the current time.



It's just that the amount of stupid in this section of the forum never ceases to amaze me.
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Report this Post02-19-2014 01:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:


Yes please, I am waiting patiently for the proof to the claim that there is a a movement to ban all firearms in the U.S.

You know a movement that has some support (backed by a number of politicians maybe) not just some wacko with a internet site etc.

Or feel free to admit it's just more scare mongering



You cannot be this ignorant of the various organizations trying to ban guns. Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and more. These groups all have an end goal of banning all guns. You cannot do that in one fell swoop though. First you must get all guns registered. Only then can you ban guns outright because you know where to find them. England did it, Australia did it. Both of these countries have been used as examples of what the US needs to do.
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Report this Post02-19-2014 01:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwSend a Private Message to KhwDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:
You cannot be this ignorant of the various organizations trying to ban guns. Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and more. These groups all have an end goal of banning all guns. You cannot do that in one fell swoop though. First you must get all guns registered. Only then can you ban guns outright because you know where to find them. England did it, Australia did it. Both of these countries have been used as examples of what the US needs to do.


Essentially it's the same as anything else. You take a little here and a little there and eventually you turn around and it's gone. Like when I leave a bag of Cadbury Mini Eggs on my desk. The kids think "Oh he will never miss one" and eat one. The problem is this leads to taking a little more and a little more and eventually the bag is empty. Look at smoking for another example. First it was "We just want to ban smoking in restraunts and on airplanes". Now in some places they are trying to make it so you can't smoke in your home, while one city has made it so you can't smoke on the street or sidewalk. Not to mention the continually mounting "taxes" they add to packs of cigarettes. First it was a quarter "for the schools". Now the taxes are several dollars in some states. It's the way it's always worked, the whole boiling a frog thing. If you drop a frog in boiling water it will try to get out, but if you put it in cold water and gradually heat it the frog will stay and get itself cooked. The same with this. You may not have a "group" out there with their stated goal being to "ban all guns" but that doesn't mean it's not what they are working towards. However, you can't "prove" this is the ultimate goal just as you can't "prove" it isn't. All you can do is go by what history has shown and well, it points in a direction that does not align with "shall not be infringed".
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Report this Post02-19-2014 07:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:
You cannot be this ignorant of the various organizations trying to ban guns. Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and more. These groups all have an end goal of banning all guns. You cannot do that in one fell swoop though. First you must get all guns registered. Only then can you ban guns outright because you know where to find them. England did it, Australia did it. Both of these countries have been used as examples of what the US needs to do.


I see, I never realized that Australia and England had banned all firearms.
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Report this Post02-19-2014 07:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post

newf

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quote
Originally posted by Khw:


Essentially it's the same as anything else. You take a little here and a little there and eventually you turn around and it's gone. Like when I leave a bag of Cadbury Mini Eggs on my desk. The kids think "Oh he will never miss one" and eat one. The problem is this leads to taking a little more and a little more and eventually the bag is empty. Look at smoking for another example. First it was "We just want to ban smoking in restraunts and on airplanes". Now in some places they are trying to make it so you can't smoke in your home, while one city has made it so you can't smoke on the street or sidewalk. Not to mention the continually mounting "taxes" they add to packs of cigarettes. First it was a quarter "for the schools". Now the taxes are several dollars in some states. It's the way it's always worked, the whole boiling a frog thing. If you drop a frog in boiling water it will try to get out, but if you put it in cold water and gradually heat it the frog will stay and get itself cooked. The same with this. You may not have a "group" out there with their stated goal being to "ban all guns" but that doesn't mean it's not what they are working towards. However, you can't "prove" this is the ultimate goal just as you can't "prove" it isn't. All you can do is go by what history has shown and well, it points in a direction that does not align with "shall not be infringed".


Some regulation doesn't mean the goal is a ban IMO. Many things are reasonably regulated.

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Report this Post02-19-2014 07:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfSend a Private Message to newfDirect Link to This Post

newf

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Anyways I'm about done I think my points have been made, people seem to be getting upset that I am still active in the thread.

Another big issue that has many opinions. Good discussion for the most part.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-19-2014).]

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yellowstone
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Report this Post02-19-2014 07:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for yellowstoneSend a Private Message to yellowstoneDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newf:


I see, I never realized that Australia and England had banned all firearms.


Just let it be. I know it's hard but it's beyond the point where trying to get your point across makes any sense anymore. I understood what you are trying to say and I'm sure everyone else who wants to did, as well.
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