quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I know.

Then why all this amplified manufactured baloney about everyone haveing a gun on them and it being the wild west? Do our PFF Canadians know too? Why do you high five them for posts that support faulty bias opinion?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Canada vs America in a thread on guns again.

That's a good and important debate based on two different approaches to a difficult issue. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Yeah, that was tragic/hilarious/idiotic where that happened.

I agree.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Federal employees seem to be separate from the "American people", in your opinion.

Some choose to separate themselves, to set themselves apart or above others and when given the opportunity are all too willing to do it.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: What I do agree with is that there are many little unimportant and frustrated "Napoleons" who like to throw their authority around. You find that in any level of government and also in private business (think bouncers).

Agreed. Only in most cases they aren't exercising their Napoleon complex with Federal authority.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by newf: Why are so many afraid to admit a lot of their motivation for their personal well being are fear based?

Why, would we want to tell a deliberate lie. It isn't fear based. Again, you can claim it is till the cows come home but that doesn't make it true.

Nice of you to talk for everyone.

quote [P]rimitive fear instincts are as important for self-control as the higher power to override instincts. Many of us let fear get in the way of long-term goals, and that's not good. But it's a mistake to think the solution is to overcome fear in general. You can't (at least, not without a temporal lobectomy). And even if you could, you wouldn't like the results. We need our instincts to let us know when something is just wrong — an immediate emotional evaluation that is even more powerful than complex reasoning and logic.

http://lifehacker.com/57134...ake-better-decisions

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by newf: Nice of you to talk for everyone.

I understand that no-one likes to be seen as afraid, especially "tough men with guns". Of course it if fear, the same way that fear drives us to contract insurance, lock out doors and wear seat belts.

As I posted before in this thread, everyone (consciously or not) conducts a risk/benefits analysis for pretty much everything (even though humans have proven to be pretty bad at assessing risk rationally and accurately) and acts accordingly. For me, the risks of private gun ownership outweigh the benefits but that's obviously not true for many members here. They think that the drawbacks are acceptable given the sense of preparedness and feeling of safety that a gun conveys. Or at least that's my theory...

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by newf: Why are so many afraid to admit a lot of their motivation for their personal well being are fear based?

I see what you are trying to get at... I think it's the implied logic that people who arm themselves are more afraid than those who choose not to that is causing confusion.


Fear isn't my motivation. Practicality is.

Do I wear my seatbelt because I'm afraid of dying in an accident? Nope, but if there is an accident, I'm safer - and it took my 5 seconds to put on.
Do I carry a weapon because I'm afraid of being attacked? Nope, but if I am, I'm safer - and it took me less time to put my weapon on my belt than to tie my shoes.
Do I have an umbrella in my car because I'm afraid of getting wet? Nope, but if it rains, I'm dryer - and it takes up hardly any space under my seat.

quote Originally posted by CoryFiero: Do I wear my seatbelt because I'm afraid of dying in an accident? .

Yes.

quote Originally posted by CoryFiero:Do I carry a weapon because I'm afraid of being attacked?

Yes.

quote Originally posted by CoryFiero:Do I have an umbrella in my car because I'm afraid of getting wet?

Yes.

I wear my seat belt because I fear being hurt in an accident, not because it's practical or easy to use. I carry an umbrella around because I fear getting wet, not because it's easy to carry around.

Why is it so difficult to admit to fear? Doing so doesn't make you or me less of a man. Fear drives many of our actions and for good reason. See my previous post about risk/benefit analysis.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Or at least that's my theory...

'Hypothesis' would be a better term.

Perhaps some people have been so programmed by TV that they confuse 'fear' with 'concern'?

The definitions are significantly different.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: 'Hypothesis' would be a better term.

True.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Perhaps some people have been so programmed by TV that they confuse 'fear' with 'concern'?

Funny since I don't watch TV...

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by newf: Why are so many afraid to admit a lot of their motivation for their personal well being are fear based?

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Why is it so difficult to admit to fear? Doing so doesn't make you or me less of a man. Fear drives many of our actions and for good reason.

Are we getting to the root of y'alls aversion to an armed populace ? Fear ?

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: ... everyone (consciously or not) conducts a risk/benefits analysis for pretty much everything (even though humans have proven to be pretty bad at assessing risk rationally and accurately) and acts accordingly.

I don't think so. I know that to not be the case.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: I understand that no-one likes to be seen as afraid, especially "tough men with guns". Of course it if fear, the same way that fear drives us to contract insurance, lock out doors and wear seat belts. As I posted before in this thread, everyone (consciously or not) conducts a risk/benefits analysis for pretty much everything (even though humans have proven to be pretty bad at assessing risk rationally and accurately) and acts accordingly. For me, the risks of private gun ownership outweigh the benefits but that's obviously not true for many members here. They think that the drawbacks are acceptable given the sense of preparedness and feeling of safety that a gun conveys. Or at least that's my theory...

I agree. The word fear alone makes many uncomfortable and they seem unable to admit they feel it. I guess it's a relative term, if I do not want something to happen, do I fear it? I guess a case could be made for yes or no. But as an emotion that helps us make decisions I think fear (or wanting something not to happen) is one of the most important.

quote George S. Patton If we take the generally accepted definition of bravery as a quality which knows no fear, I have never seen a brave man. All men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Yes. I wear my seat belt because I fear being hurt in an accident, not because it's practical or easy to use. I carry an umbrella around because I fear getting wet, not because it's easy to carry around. Why is it so difficult to admit to fear? Doing so doesn't make you or me less of a man. Fear drives many of our actions and for good reason. See my previous post about risk/benefit analysis.

I think you are scared of your own shadow. but you think we are afraid that's why we wear seat belts, no I wear seatbelts because its the law and I don't want a ticket, so that is wrong in my case now isn't it.

you are afraid of someone else having a gun that's what you are afraid of, I am not, I have one of my own.

I am not afraid of rain and never carry an umbrella, even when it is raining. Rain don't hurt, it just gets you wet, are you made of Sugar or maybe its Sh!t you are made of, because your posts are full of it, because their is no real legitimate reason to be afraid of getting a little wet.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Yes. I wear my seat belt because I fear being hurt in an accident, not because it's practical or easy to use. I carry an umbrella around because I fear getting wet, not because it's easy to carry around. Why is it so difficult to admit to fear? Doing so doesn't make you or me less of a man. Fear drives many of our actions and for good reason. See my previous post about risk/benefit analysis.

Its probably just not quite the right word.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fear

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fear

But anyway, why no comment on my post at the top of this page?

^^^
It's called prejudice. It IS a good thing but this is just another word in a long list that has been hijacked and demonized.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Perhaps some people have been so programmed by TV that they confuse 'fear' with 'concern'? The definitions are significantly different.

I believe 'fear' is considered a base emotion while 'concern' is not.

quote Originally posted by newf: I believe 'fear' is considered a base emotion while 'concern' is not.

Yes, 'concern' denotes logical analysis.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: TV sure does push the 'fear' aspect of everything; weather, government, guns, food safety, etc. Fear sells better than sex anymore....at least for 'family' viewing.

So does the inernet and radio for that matter.

quote Originally posted by newf: I believe 'fear' is considered a base emotion while 'concern' is not.

That's why I don't consider fear an accurate description. Needing to call police to "remove a bullet" while you keep your children out of the area around the bullet is a fear reaction. There's not logical risk assessment, it's a reaction driven by ignorance and fear.

Wanting to wear your seat belt or carry a spare tire is a logical risk assessment that isn't motivated by ignorance and fear. You know possible outcomes and choose to have a remedy in the unlikely event you should need it to minimize that event's impact on your life. The same goes for firearms ownership. You may disagree and I'll respect that, but your viewpoint of how gun owner's think isn't the reality.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Yes, 'concern' denotes logical analysis.

So then concern would be a partially fear based. Potential negative outcomes would be based in fear.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That's why I don't consider fear an accurate description. Needing to call police to "remove a bullet" while you keep your children out of the area around the bullet is a fear reaction. There's not logical risk assessment, it's a reaction driven by ignorance and fear. Wanting to wear your seat belt or carry a spare tire is a logical risk assessment that isn't motivated by ignorance and fear. You know possible outcomes and choose to have a remedy in the unlikely event you should need it to minimize that event's impact on your life. The same goes for firearms ownership. You may disagree and I'll respect that, but your viewpoint of how gun owner's think isn't the reality.

As above I believe that within the risk assessment one considers positive and negative outcomes, it's the negative (fear based) that one hopes to protect themselves from.

Fear is necessary as is pain.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by newf: So then concern would be a partially fear based. Potential negative outcomes would be based in fear.

If you want to get to real roots then, every single thing is selfishness based in one form or another.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: If you want to get to real roots then, every single thing is selfishness based in one form or another.

Well yes, ultimately everything we do is for ourselves.

quote Originally posted by newf: Yes, and as 2.5 mentioned, many mass media forms do so..... the documentary I linked is basically all about how the public disproportionally believe certain "scary" issues are more a threat than statistics show.

Thanks for re-enforcing the point.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: You can say you slept with Marylin Monroe.

Patrick, you slept with Mary Lin Monroe? She sure was a dish in high school and college. Is she still now that she is 62?

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Thanks for re-enforcing the point.

No problem. Fear is a powerful emotion.

There is a story currently on Fox about a man and a teenage daughter who were road rage victims. Their car was rammed multiple times. They called 911 and it was a very unsettling recording. They were helpless. I'll take a gun over a cell phone. I would not be able to live with the thought that someone hurt or raped my daughter because I couldn't stop a threat right in front of me.

quote Originally posted by newf: I believe 'fear' is considered a base emotion while 'concern' is not.

Fear is learned. No one comes into the world fearful.

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: Fear is learned. No one comes into the world fearful.

You'll be sure to let the scientific community that it's NOT a base emotion then?

Which emotions do you think are innate?

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-12-2014).]

hitting 150 on a motorcycle on the highway can lead to death

still many people do it.

quote Originally posted by newf: You'll be sure to let the scientific community that it's NOT a base emotion then? Which emotions do you think are innate?

Reality is a foreign concept to you, isn't it.

Steve

quote Originally posted by newf: You'll be sure to let the scientific community that it's NOT a base emotion then? Which emotions do you think are innate?

The scientific community already knows it.

Children will express dissatisfaction with being uncomfortable, wet or hungry, for instance, by crying, but they exhibit no fear.

Fear is learned. Once learned, we can learn to control it.

[This message has been edited by heybjorn (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by newf: You'll be sure to let the scientific community that it's NOT a base emotion then?

But what is your point, saying that it is a "base emotion". What dies that nean to you? It seems you consider being prepared or logical concern to be the same as every other fear. Do you at least see differeces in logical, being prepared, vs unfounded, or realistic vs baseless, scared?

quote Originally posted by newf: Why are so many afraid to admit a lot of their motivation for their personal well being are fear based?

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Why is it so difficult to admit to fear? Doing so doesn't make you or me less of a man. Fear drives many of our actions and for good reason.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Are we getting to the root of y'alls aversion to an armed populace ? Fear ?

Are you afraid to admit it ?
Heh, here is a good example of the difference between liberals and conservatives. When a conservative fears something, he does something about it. When a liberal fears, they want to change everybody else's behavior.

quote Originally posted by newf: As above I believe that within the risk assessment one considers positive and negative outcomes, it's the negative (fear based) that one hopes to protect themselves from.

Another liberal trait. That everybody must think like a liberal.

quote Originally posted by newf: Fear is necessary as is pain.

Tell me. Why is pain necessary ? To develop fear ? I don't think pain or fear is necessary.

quote Originally posted by newf: As above I believe that within the risk assessment one considers positive and negative outcomes, it's the negative (fear based) that one hopes to protect themselves from. Fear is necessary as is pain.

If you live your life believing so much is based on fear, I suppose you'll see it that way. I do not.
I can differentiate a fear based response with a logical choice to avoid a perceived negative. Preference isn't solely based on fear. For something to reach the level of fear it needs to be able to induce a physiological response.

Turning on the light to see better isn't based on fear, even though you make the choice to avoid a perceived negative.
Being afraid of the dark and feeling anxiety because of the darkness is a fear based reaction.

If you choose to define your life in terms of fear, so be it. I choose not to.

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: The scientific community already knows it. Children will express dissatisfaction with being uncomfortable, wet or hungry, for instance, by crying, but they exhibit no fear. Fear is learned. Once learned, we can learn to control it.

Funny you didn't answer the second question.

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: Fear is learned. Once learned, we can learn to control it.

I agree.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 02-12-2014).]

quote Originally posted by newf: Funny you didn't answer the second question.

Fear is a learned thing, not something you are born with, now isn't it.

Steve

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Fear is a learned thing, not something you are born with, now isn't it. Steve

I'll ask again, which base emotions is a baby born with?