quote Originally posted by Tinton: There you go talking about yourself . Most rich people inherited their wealth. I don't know exact numbers but probably at least half or more with a net worth of $100,000,000 or more inherited it. People like Warren Buffet are the exception. You don't become insanely rich by putting in 50-60, or even 70-80 hour weeks. You might become lawyer rich or Doctor rich by doing that but not obscenely rich. And comparing lawyer or Doctor rich to obscenely rich like some people are....you might as well say they're not rich at all. Like comparing a light bulb's intensity to that of the sun. And what about professional athletes? People who make millions per year for playing a game, while you bust your ass 50-60 hours a week for a fraction of what they make. Not that athletes don't work hard to be who they are, but its completely different from being chained to a desk for a relatively menial wage.

Wow... you REALLY, REALLY don't know what you're talking about.

It's actually kind of funny though. Oh well... I really don't have time to worry about your problems.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Sad? What's sad are all the people who spend their entire lives working, believing they're just 1 step away from making it big. I'm a realist.

Has it ever occured to you that many people who work hard, work the way they do because they ENJOY their job? Not just because they want to succeed, but because they enjoy what they do?

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 09-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: And if I'd been a citizen of the UK it would've been free.

No, its not actually free. Its just taken up front via taxes.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: So Tinton, ... how's the Dumbocratic war on poverty working for 'ya ? It is responsible for the increase in people living below the poverty line. I made it big. I was raised in foster care, I am a high school drop out, I have a few black marks on my permanent record. How did I make it big ? By following the Republican ideal. By working hard and depending on me. Realizing that the survival of the fittest meant that I need to get fit. I would be doing even better if I did not allow myself to fail. Social safety net, . Do you wear floaties on your arms when you go swimming ? Man up.

\

quote Originally posted by Tinton: The opportunities you had don't exist anymore. With no H.S. diploma, black marks on your record, etc, these days you'd be lucky to get a job digging ditches. You'd be stuck living under a bridge.

The opportunities, ? They were obstacles.
I get tired of this zhit. You and others are so full of defeat you are at serious risk of being a losers. I quit my job at whim, chronicled here on the forum. I have never been out of work. I make opportunities. There are 3.5 million jobs which are unfilled, which pay up to $60,000.00 a year. Why don't you get you one ?

quote Originally posted by Tinton: And what I mean by social safety net.....you can get so low that you can't get a job. Hard to pull yourself up by your bootstraps then. Not to mention its difficult getting on welfare, chances are you'd starve to death under that bridge before you'd find opportunity to help yourself.

Whaa whaa whaa, cry me a river, take your floaties off, and drown yourself, . Quitters never win. Starve to death ? I have never ever ran out of beer.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Employers and everyone else in this country are selfish, we're all supposed to fend for ourselves. That's nature, that's how ANIMALS survive, and we're supposed to be above that.

Are you delusional ? Supposed to ? Says who ? I am not selfish but I expect to fend for myself. I count on me for my success and failure. No one promised us a rose garden and no one owes us one.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: There should at least be a government service that hooks people up with jobs, and enforces hiring. Everyone should be able to provide for themselves, and no one should fall through the cracks of society.

, . You have got to be kidding me. For one, anyone can join the military. You are suggesting that the government should tell private citizens/companies who they should hire ? Gooberment already educates the populace (if they want it) and does enforce hiring to a degree (affirmative action, Americans With Disabilities Act, discrimination laws, among others). No one should fall through the cracks of society ? What about the ex convict drug head ? Gooberment will be the supreme being of defining those cracks people willingly fall through ?

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Employers and profits should matter LESS when compared to people and individuals. That is why the European system is better.

Go to Europe. There is a reason people from all over the globe want to come here. It is not to have what they have where they come from. What are you doing for those that have less than you ? If you sold your Fiero, would you adjust the price so that someone could afford it or would you want what it is worth ?

quote Originally posted by Tinton: If you're so pro-business look at how business operated 100 years ago, their interests are NOT the right interests for common people!

This is not one hundred years ago and it offends me that you think I am common folk. I'll assume you mean populace. You want gooberment to determine what is the right interests of the people, ? Gooberment is bought off more than business is. Gooberment is not the answer, it is the problem. Gooberment can not stop personal failure. There is no "one size fits all" solution. Every single person's circumstances and drive differ.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: You think of survival of the fittest the wrong way. It implies that some people succeed, which is all you think about. Well, in that system some people fail. In survival of the fittest, failure usually means death.

You don't know what or how I think. It does imply that some people succeed and some fail. My success came from one failure at a time. Failure, even in the animal world, doesn't mean death. It can establish a pecking order in a pack of animals. In our civilization, that would include a middle class.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: In our country you don't see that because our prison system is a form of welfare, people who can't provide for themselves anymore just need to commit a crime and they get 3 hots and a cot. If you're so low that you choose that option, it prevents you from ever leading a normal life. That's why there's so many assholes, thieves, murders, etc in this country and why we have the largest prison population on earth.

What are you saying, ? That we need to build more prisons to keep people from falling through the cracks ? Perhaps enable them to get there without committing a crime. Sorry to burst your bubble but prison is a choice. A choice not to lead a normal life. A choice not to follow laws. We are a nation of laws. That is what sets us above the animal world.
Yes, we do have the largest prison population on Earth. Because of gooberment drug laws. Just like gooberment Prohibition, it will not work. The gooberment you see as an answer. Prison as a form of welfare, as you call it, is not why we have so many assholes, thieves, and murderers, . We have so many assholes, thieves, and murderers because people want to have what they do not want to work for.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Its haves vs. have-nots and its getting to the point where if you're a have-not there's no chance for you to change your life. Eventually if the have-nots vastly outnumber the haves its French Revolution all over again, and heads will roll.

FAIL
There are numerous accounts of people emigrating to America and making it. There are numerous accounts of people breaking the chains of a welfare lifestyle and making it. Many rich people did not go to college. People who want to can. Many a comfortable lifestyle did not happen in one generation.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: As a civilized society we should try to decrease the number of have-nots as much as possible, and yes it comes from the detriment of the extreme have's who make/own much more than they need to survive.

We can lead a horse to water but we can't make it drink.
Have you learned nothing from history ? You can not make the poor rich by making the rich poor. You can not make the weak strong by making the strong weak.
I have more than I need to survive. In fact, I can survive under a bridge. Envy is a sin. I feel sorry for those afflicted with envy. They will never be happy. I think you will always be a 'have not'.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: If you built yourself up before 2008 you're fine. If you've just come out of school, you're farked.

That is bullzhit. I know of some people who are gonna finish school (college) who are gonna do very well. theDbub of this forum is one. Because people are too stupid to pursue a rewarding college career path is their fault. I did not even finish high school. Many people excel by apprentice-ship and start their own business.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Companies need to realize that if they fire someone, or don't hire someone when they could, its denying the market a consumer.

It is not a company's job to serve the market.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: The very reason they can't sell enough is because there aren't enough consumers.

You say you are college educated, ?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: How is that Animal Control safety net working out for you ?

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Implemented poorly. By your logic there shouldn't be animal control at all, it should just sort itself out on its own right? Now do you see what's wrong with your line of thinking? I swear Republicans are misanthropic, almost anarchistic.

I have animal control here. I value the service they provide my community. Including taking care of animals, protecting them from undeserving owners. They have picked up my dogs and released them to me for free. They have picked up my neighbor's and charged him $500.00. I would never expect things to sort themselves out, I can take care of business. I ain't scared to confront my neighbors or their pit bulls. Let me guess, you have no management skills. For sure no people skills.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I've never been someone that competes for things, I usually go with what's the sure bet.

That's why you are a failure. You have gall for wanting from those that took the risky bet which paid off.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I've always been someone who wants to be comfortable with what I have instead of striving for things that might be beyond me, even though I have good potential. Employers these days are too cautious, too selfish, to really give someone a chance to prove themself.

Look at yourself. Quit being repetitive. Who wants to hire someone mediocre. Who wants to retain someone mediocre ? No wonder why they have not renewed your contracts.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: ... how would I do that? Start my own business? Its a huge investment and a huge opportunity cost, for something that probably won't be successful.

Which is why you will always be a failure, .

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Our definitions of success are different. Making $50k/year, having a comfortable job, me not having to worry if I can pay all my bills or if I'll have a job anymore a few months down the line. That's what I call success. With that I could even save up enough money to make my life what I want it to be.

Yeah, our definitions of success are different. To me, quitting a $70k/year job at whim, not having to worry if I can pay my bills or get another job, kicking back and drinking beer, that's what I call success.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Getting a "good" job should be easy. It shouldn't be something you have to STRIVE for because that implies that there's people who don't make it.

I want some of what you are smoking. Let me guess. You don't have a good girlfriend either if you have one at all. Do 'ya want gooberment to take care of that also for you ? Food stamps are easy and that is why the food stamp roles increase all the time.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Its easy enough. I find a new job in my field, do my work for a while. Build up my resume. Eventually the economy will recover to where employers demands will change, and things won't be as difficult. Might take 2 or 3 more jobs beyond that, but eventually my resume and the demand of overseas companies will meet and I'll be able to get out of here.

Tell that to the typewrighter manufacturers.
Overseas companies from America ? A resume ain't zhit without a good impression. Companies look for 'can do' people, not whiners.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Socialist mentality is the right way. Helping your fellow man is the right way. A system where some people can make their livelihood and others can't is the wrong system.

What are you doing to help your fellow man ? The system is such that I can make my way, if I want to. What is your problem ?

quote Originally posted by MadMark: So what has changed in that 50 years? I submit to you that we have had more and more government taking more and more money out of the economy along with regulations that have held businesses back. We also did not have the healthcare you feel is so needed. So how again was it better 50 years ago? And what would need to change to bring back the good ole days of yester year? Maybe less government, less taxes, less mouching off the public and less government regulation. So all of the things that you say are necessary are what is holding us you back ...

Great post MadMark, with a little of my tweaking.

quote Originally posted by MadMark: Why would you think it is easier for those in the past than for you now? You have no perspective at all if you are as young as I suspect. Try being over 60 and laid off like I was a year and a half ago. How hard do you think it is to get a job if you are older? I will tell you it is not easy. Even though I have over 40 years of experience I would have a hard time getting a job where my skills were utilized and I was paid half way decent. So I started my own business. It is not easy to do at anytime because it is all on you.

He is young, dumb, and swallowed too much liberal cum. This is the guy who wants gooberment parenthood yet railed against his own Dad's parenthood here on this forum. Looking back now, it is obvious we only heard his side of the story.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: You'll be having lots of fun when armed hordes storm your mansion, wanting to put your head on a pike .

What makes you think that they will skip over your castle ?

quote Originally posted by Tinton: France, Greece, etc have had debt problems because they try to manage and resolve their debt.

They don't have debt problems. They have spending problems. Because of socialism.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: The way you all talk we should go back to 16 hour work days. I'm pretty sure all those extra hours of work will REALLY give you a leg up in life, right?

I work twelve hour days, for two weeks straight. Out of town, away from home. Not only does it give me a leg up in life, it gets my middle leg up too. You do what you gotta do if you want to. It sure beats waiting around to get things handed to you only to complain that it is not enough.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Wow... you REALLY, REALLY don't know what you're talking about. It's actually kind of funny though. Oh well... I really don't have time to worry about your problems.

Todd, you make me feel bad. I spent the time responding to him for naught.

quote Originally posted by MadMark: If you still don't like it here, you are really only making excuses for not being able to go to one of the European countries. They take in people from all over the world everyday, some of them have no money, no skills, no prospects and will be on the dole for a long time. So if that is what you want out of life then go for it and get on a boat to France, or Italy or Spain or Greece. How can they turn you down, you would fit right in.

Quoted for truth. Notice how he is on the wanting end of the equation ?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: You have got to be kidding me. For one, anyone can join the military.

Not everyone can join, unless they start drafting here this fall and lower the entry requirements, but ( as should be clear by now.. ) i do agree with everything you said in principle.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Not everyone can join, unless they start drafting here this fall and lower the entry requirements ...

I know but this is Tinton's utopian pipe dream we are talking about. If gooberment will make us hire losers, gooberment needs to hire losers also. Um, wait, nevermind, .

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Derp derp derp... retarded points. I'll never see sense.

I'm the only person who sees sense here, and there's no point in arguing anymore. It was fun but now you and I both are getting to be reptitive, all in an effort to get the other person to see something they won't.

Its another reason I want out of here. I know how to fix this country's problems, but no one understands. Instead, inept fools will continue to ruin it. There isn't any point to arguing politics because everyone here in this country is a fool, at least politically speaking. Republicans are the worst.

And for being a loser....I just got offered a job by Sony, making $51/hr doing QA/QC for the PS3 or PS4. Only a 6 month contract and I'd have to move to California for a while, but hey it sounds good. I can probably get it and I didn't have to strive for it, it just sort of landed in my lap, like all my jobs have. If you can't do math, that's close to $100k/year before taxes. I could work that for 6 months and make a cool 40k or so .

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I'm the only person who sees sense here

That there should tell you something .. if no one agrees with you, one must question your own sense of reality.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I'm the only person who sees sense here, and there's no point in arguing anymore. It was fun but now you and I both are getting to be reptitive, all in an effort to get the other person to see something they won't. Its another reason I want out of here. I know how to fix this country's problems, but no one understands. Instead, inept fools will continue to ruin it. There isn't any point to arguing politics because everyone here in this country is a fool, at least politically speaking. Republicans are the worst. And for being a loser....I just got offered a job by Sony, making $51/hr doing QA/QC for the PS3 or PS4. Only a 6 month contract and I'd have to move to California for a while, but hey it sounds good. I can probably get it and I didn't have to strive for it, it just sort of landed in my lap, like all my jobs have. If you can't do math, that's close to $100k/year before taxes. I could work that for 6 months and make a cool 40k or so .

It would be fun... but you're too lazy for that, so you'll probably just stay where you are.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: And for being a loser....I just got offered a job by Sony, making $51/hr doing QA/QC for the PS3 or PS4. Only a 6 month contract and I'd have to move to California for a while, but hey it sounds good. I can probably get it and I didn't have to strive for it, it just sort of landed in my lap, like all my jobs have. If you can't do math, that's close to $100k/year before taxes. I could work that for 6 months and make a cool 40k or so .

?? So the question is, why aren't you taking it? That's a resume' builder.

Little story, I moved from N. MN where $8 an hour was good pay to the T.C. metro area, doubled my income as in I went from $15k a yr to about $30k just by moving south 120 miles. Banged about the first 2 years and had an OMG a $12 an hr job fall in my lap (remember where I came from) I've been with this company 12yrs as of the 14th. I started in Customer Service.. But fought my way up. I'm not top level now by any stretch, but making a comfortable +$60k salary. I've got what you're looking for, but worked my way up to get it.
I know what you're talking about 50-60 yrs ago.. In the town I grew up in, you went to H.S. and then you went to work for the railroad end of story. Solid pay, nice life.. Then the 70's/80's hit death of the steel industry. Death of the "I pull this lever" and make $50k a year union job.
Sorry, we're not an industrial nation anymore end of story. Now you have to grow your skill set and show you know what you're doing.

FYI, I'm an Operations Manager.. The position in my company didn't exist last year I created it. Basically I'm a triage/fixit manager. One half keep the wheels on the bus rolling, and one half find a better way of doing things. Last year I'd peaked at the position I was at, 6mos later two dept's were in a bidding war over me.
I think I'm doing just fine for a H.S. drop out, Former Marine combat engineer. It wasn't handed to me, I worked for it..
Why do you think you should just jump to my level? Yes you might have some skills at making sure the button turns green when pressed, but do you know the commerce system? Do you know how it interacts with the SAP and fulfillment system? Have you built up a network of experts within a company you can call on to help you trouble shoot an issue?

BTW you might want to try oh.. networking? Ever heard of Linkedin? I've been approached by 3 companies and 4 former employers for positions.. but like you.. I'm a lil lazy and don't what to give up the benefits I've got for the risk of more work and less benefits.. even if it is a little more money.. "Is the juice worth the squeeze"

quote Originally posted by ray b: btw my brother in law is one of them french millionaires

Well, shoot, ray! You should be entittled to his riches then. Ask him for some cash.

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: Well, shoot, ray! You should be entittled to his riches then. Ask him for some cash.

WHY

I NEVER MET THE DUDE
AND HE HAS LOTS OF KIDS

I HAVE MY OWN FUNDS

WHY DOES THE RIGHTWING ASSUME ANY PROGRESSIVE WANTS YOUR CRAP

I NEVER ASK FOR STUFF

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I'm the only person who sees sense here, and there's no point in arguing anymore.

We feel the same then. It's exactly how I feel about the Democrats at work. Pointless.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Its another reason I want out of here.

Give up your citizenship and leave. No one is stopping you.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I know how to fix this country's problems, but no one understands. Instead, inept fools will continue to ruin it. There isn't any point to arguing politics because everyone here in this country is a fool, at least politically speaking. Republicans are the worst.

Most of you Dems really have no clue. Notice I said most Dems.....not all. You happen to be one without a clue.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: And for being a loser....I just got offered a job by Sony, making $51/hr doing QA/QC for the PS3 or PS4. Only a 6 month contract and I'd have to move to California for a while, but hey it sounds good. I can probably get it and I didn't have to strive for it, it just sort of landed in my lap, like all my jobs have. If you can't do math, that's close to $100k/year before taxes. I could work that for 6 months and make a cool 40k or so .

Awesome! Now go make those millions so some pethetic smuck can tell you that you owe him because you made it big and he wants part of your pie since they are too lazy to make it on their own.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I'm the only person who sees sense here, and there's no point in arguing anymore. It was fun but now you and I both are getting to be reptitive, all in an effort to get the other person to see something they won't. Its another reason I want out of here. I know how to fix this country's problems, but no one understands. Instead, inept fools will continue to ruin it. There isn't any point to arguing politics because everyone here in this country is a fool, at least politically speaking. Republicans are the worst.

You can't even straighten your own life out, but you know how to fix this country's problems. Megalomaniac much?

Just for your own information, you have been repetative all along. "Its not my fault nomatter what, everyone else is wrong. The system is rigged. The rich owe me. The rich are all crooks, the rich don't pay any taxes, etc, etc, etc! Republicans are (put in whatever derogatory term you want in here, you seem to have a large supply.)

I amuses me to see you struggle to try to explain how you know everything and have the ability to fix the world (well maybe only the United States), but can't do anything for yourself. Wow, just wow.

As I sit here writing this a question comes to my mind, are you the illegitamate brother of BHO? You two have a tendency to always blame someone else, so there must be a connection somewhere.

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: Awesome! Now go make those millions so some pethetic smuck can tell you that you owe him because you made it big and he wants part of your pie since they are too lazy to make it on their own.

Too lazy? Most jobs you can get don't pay for you to survive. Min wage working at McDonalds, unable to even get FT hours won't pay for an apartment, not even in the ghetto. You could live in a box in an alley if they'll let you show up to work without a shower, etc.

I make that much money, I won't complain about taxes. You make lots of money, its your responsibility to give back to help those less fortunate. I DO believe its very unfair for those in the bottom bracket to contribute as much taxes as they do, when so much of their paycheck has to go to basic necessities. To me, it just makes sense to tax higher income individuals more because they have more to spare. And why punish people making low wages for starting out in life? They shouldn't be taxed at all.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-15-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: If there were enough good jobs to go around there wouldn't be any need for redistribution of wealth. That's where you all have me wrong. I'm not a democrat. If we could all have nice jobs, I'd say that everyone should WORK. Those who want to live on the dole and can get a job easily that pays for them to live are freeloaders. Problem is, I make a couple liberal points and you all assume I follow standard democrat rhetoric. I don't. I'm also conservative in other ways. We do need to cut back government spending and make it more efficient. We should also build a border wall to keep out all the extra laborers that dilute our workforce.

North Dakota still has oil jobs, check craigslist. It is hard work and a lot of money, but the pay is excellent. The US military is still hiring. I will agree there are not as many opportunities as in the past, and yes I believe it to be from greed. However, if you are a unemployed and healthy, and you haven't been trying to get on the oilfield it is your fault alone. People that were highschool dropouts are making 90k a year, because they are willing to work. It is hard to leave the wife and kids, but you do what it takes to survive.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: North Dakota still has oil jobs, check craigslist. It is hard work and a lot of money, but the pay is excellent. The US military is still hiring. I will agree there are not as many opportunities as in the past, and yes I believe it to be from greed. However, if you are a unemployed and healthy, and you haven't been trying to get on the oilfield it is your fault alone. People that were highschool dropouts are making 90k a year, because they are willing to work. It is hard to leave the wife and kids, but you do what it takes to survive.

I'm not calling you a liar, but I highly doubt that. You likely need experience, a certification, etc of some sort to get into that. They'd seriously give me a job like that if I just showed up and interviewed?

And even then its like the military, you basically have to give up your life for it. You give yourself over completely to it.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I'm not calling you a liar, but I highly doubt that. You likely need experience, a certification, etc of some sort to get into that. They'd seriously give me a job like that if I just showed up and interviewed? And even then its like the military, you basically have to give up your life for it. You give yourself over completely to it.

You don't need anything to work the fields, You need a CDL if you want to drive, and even walmart is paying around 15 dollars an hour for night stockers. The wages for everything has increased greatly there. However, housing can be a PITA, plan on living out of your car for a bit.

It all depends on your attitude, are you willing to give up a lot for a good living, or do you just want to sit on the couch and b#tch?

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: You don't need anything to work the fields,

You do need something he doesn't seem to have. The drive to go out and bust his butt and improve his life. Working in the field is hard work, and you have to be committed to doing it or you will fail miserably.

EDIT: And i would like to be proven wrong, and have him go out and do it .. but i wont get my hopes up

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-15-2012).]

I never see 21% of my pay. How much more should I have to give up in order to make me a better person? In the past 4 years, I have received 2 pay raises, but my bring home pay is less than it was then. I live paycheck to paycheck, don't have a fancy home, or expensive vehicles or even have hobbies anymore. I have given up a lot to make ends meet, but I am expected to give up more of what I earn so that others that won't earn can live as good of a life as I have? If I do more to earn a better living and it is taken away from me, why should I bother to try? What incentive do I have to do more if I never see the fruits of my labor?

quote Originally posted by Cooter: If I do more to earn a better living and it is taken away from me, why should I bother to try? What incentive do I have to do more if I never see the fruits of my labor?

Welcome to socialism

In This Oil Boomtown, Workers With No Experience Are Making $120,000 A Year
Robert Johnson|March 09, 2012|
32,733|14

26
69


A wireline truck

A wireline truck (Texas Wireline)

When I went to Williston, North Dakota to cover the oil boom for Business Insider, I knew I'd find people working very hard, in brutal conditions, making a lot of money.

I wasn't disappointed.

High oil prices have transformed Williston from a quiet town of 12,000 to a boomtown of 30,000, as people have come from all over the country in search of high-paying jobs.

In contrast to the rest of the country, jobs are plentiful in Williston.

But among all the Williston workers, performing all manner of jobs, one position was exalted more than any other — wireline.

Talking to people who were already working, making $80,0000 to $100,000 a year, it was common to hear them taper off the description of their job, and their rate of pay with, "But what I'd
Inside a wireline truckreally like to get into is wireline."

It's understandable.

Wireline operators in the Williston, North Dakota area start at about $120,000 a year and can reasonably expect to make $200,000 annually. I heard one guy say he expected to make $300,000, but $120,000 is the norm.

Williston sits atop the Bakken oil field, 640-square miles of sweet crude whose quality rivals that of Saudi Arabia, and conditions there can be harsh. Workers in all positions put in long hours, but wireline workers sometimes have the privilege of working out of a warm truck filled with computer screens and monitoring equipment.

Terence Burns at Grynberg Petroleum says the job is still demanding. "Crews generally will work straight through until the job is done, regardless of whether it takes eight hours or eight days," he says. "That’s the primary reason why the pay is so good; the overtime can mount up rapidly on a wireline job." (See pictures of Williston here.)

Crews can work for up to 50 to 60 hours at a time and then "hot-sheet" it into a nearby bunk, just vacated by another operator.

Wireline workers provide a long list of services, most of which rely on one factor: getting sensors, equipment, or explosives deep into a well without having to shut it down.

Burns points out that even though wireline firms often prefer to hire young workers with no experience, to learn their proprietary techniques and work with a "clean slate," there is a price.

"There may be few qualifications required to work in this business," he says, "but the work is demanding and not without risk, the conditions are trying, and the hours are long. There are reasons why it pays as well as it does."

Burns explained that although the North Dakota prairie can seem bucolic, it's incredibly harsh in the dead of winter and the height of summer. (See pictures here.)

"When the pressure’s on to complete or repair a well," he says,"it doesn’t matter if there’s a blizzard raging outside and the well site is one hundred miles away in the middle of nowhere – the wireline truck and crew has to be there."

It's not easy to get to Williston, and workers can be away from their families for long periods of time, but to many it's a small price to pay.

As one American who drove to Williston from Oregon looking for work told me, "The world has changed, you just can’t make it with a normal job anymore."

Pay for wireline operators in other areas of the country is less, $60,000 to $65,000 according to Burns, but in Williston the demand is intense and it shows in the pay.

"In the Bakken," Burns says, "if you have a pulse, you can get a job"

Read more: http://articles.businessins...orkers#ixzz26aVuuKGE

quote Originally posted by Cooter: I never see 21% of my pay. How much more should I have to give up in order to make me a better person? In the past 4 years, I have received 2 pay raises, but my bring home pay is less than it was then. I live paycheck to paycheck, don't have a fancy home, or expensive vehicles or even have hobbies anymore. I have given up a lot to make ends meet, but I am expected to give up more of what I earn so that others that won't earn can live as good of a life as I have? If I do more to earn a better living and it is taken away from me, why should I bother to try? What incentive do I have to do more if I never see the fruits of my labor?

and billionaire romney pays 13% to your 21%
how is less then a 1/4 of income such a big deal to kill your motivation ?

quote Originally posted by ray b: and billionaire romney pays 13% to your 21%

ray b, how about we get rid of your BIG LIE here....

Romney's actual FEDERAL INCOME TAX rate is 13%.

Cooter's is probably 5%, not 21%.

How? The other 16% of the paycheck that Cooter never sees is: State income tax, FICA tax, health insurance, and a retirement plan. Then, Cooter may be getting a tax refund at the end of the year. Hell, Cooter may be one of the Americans that actually MAKES money of the federal government when April 15th comes around

Now, I'm not saying that Romney would be up to even 20% if we compared apples to apples of the 21% of the paycheck that Cooter never sees.

It always seems to me that most people can't complain about fair share of taxes from the rich until they pay their fair share of taxes.

quote Originally posted by aceman: It always seems to me that most people can't complain about fair share of taxes from the rich until they pay their fair share of taxes.

Nearly 11% just in federal taxes. In my 21% figure, I only counted fed, state, ss and medicare- money that I never see and will not get any sort of return from. If I included retirement and insurance, I am down $38%, but I might get to use my retirement one day and insurance is voluntary...aww crap, never mind. As far as making money off the fed. at tax return time, I nearly break even each year. Some years, I have to pay, some years, I get back a few hundred. Hardly making money, I think.

I get what you are saying, Cooter. I sit in the same boat as you do. When one looks at my family's income, I sit in the 25% tax bracket, yet I realistically paid only about 7% federal income tax last year. (skewed a bit because of the non-taxable income I had from the military last year) I'm sure my federal tax percentage will jump this year. It still won't be at 25% like every thinks when they look at the tax rate tables.

So, if you're saying that you paid an 11% tax rate and I assume you're probably in the 25% tax rate bracket, you paid only 44% of what the tax bracket shows? Romney is in the 35% tax bracket and only about 37% of what the tax bracket shows. So if Romney paid @ a 15% tax rate, that would be the same percentage of what you actually paid in your bracket.

Obama paid at a rate of 20.5% last year. It will be interesting to see what Obama effectively pays once out of the White House.

The United States had a 75% tax rate for millionaires back during the Great Depression, to you know... Take Back from the rich.

Then during WWII, the tax rate shot up to 94% for those making above $200,000 (A lot back then, and still a lot now, because its considered rich by Obama standards).

During the Reagan years the top tax rate was 50%.

The lowest we have seen (Post FDR) is 28% top tax rate during Papa Bush's term.

Currently we are under Baby Bush's tax rate with the top rate at 35%.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Because I am expected to get off my butt and earn a living to support those who don't. I am tired, that's all. My motivation is not killed, just injured. I want more for my son than I ever had, so I will work that second job to put money back for his college fund. When things get worse, I will conquer and overcome, not give up. Foolish pride I guess.

I don't mind in the least lending a hand to fellow Americans that need some help ( actually, its part of my career ), but i agree, we are being bled dry for people that just don't want to fend for themselves, and that is getting old.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: The United States had a 75% tax rate for millionaires back during the Great Depression, to you know... Take Back from the rich. Then during WWII, the tax rate shot up to 94% for those making above $200,000 (A lot back then, and still a lot now, because its considered rich by Obama standards). During the Reagan years the top tax rate was 50%. The lowest we have seen (Post FDR) is 28% top tax rate during Papa Bush's term. Currently we are under Baby Bush's tax rate with the top rate at 35%.

Do people know this?
Yet they STAYED, loved, and were proud to support this country?

I don't think this country has changed as near as much as the people themselves.
And if that is true, we deserve everything we get.

That is untill they admitt that the problem is them.

quote Originally posted by User00013170:That's too bad. I believe in freedom and understand how a 'free' economy works. 'graduated tax rates' shows you do not. They are detrimental to an economy.

What I know it that Courts have to be maintained to settle disputes between states and weapons and people need to be paid for to kill other than USA citizens that are a threat to the USA. We should be able to save a lot of money if try to move closer to just that.
Free economy does not include tax brakes for mortgage interest, your 7 babies, adding insulation to your home ect. Those are attempts at manipulation of behavior. My wife was upset that we did not get to take advantage of mortgage interest deductions on the 5 mortgages we have because we make too much money. I asked, "Are we still winning?", she said "yes", I told to shut the F up, and be glad we do not need it. I hate the unnecessary rules that attempts at manipulation our behavior. People should be able to do what fits them under some very basic do not harm others rules.

quote Originally posted by FriendGregory: What I know it that Courts have to be maintained to settle disputes between states and weapons and people need to be paid for to kill other than USA citizens that are a threat to the USA. We should be able to save a lot of money if try to move closer to just that. Free economy does not include tax brakes for mortgage interest, your 7 babies, adding insulation to your home ect. Those are attempts at manipulation of behavior. My wife was upset that we did not get to take advantage of mortgage interest deductions on the 5 mortgages we have because we make too much money. I asked, "Are we still winning?", she said "yes", I told to shut the F up, and be glad we do not need it. I hate the unnecessary rules that attempts at manipulation our behavior. People should be able to do what fits them under some very basic do not harm others rules.

I don't think i ever said there would be NO taxes, as there is a case for a limited federal and state government and they do have to be funded. But the government can just tax us for their services and stay out of commerce ( except as unbiased oversight to keep things honest ) and things would remain a 'free economy'.

( unless i totally misunderstood what you were trying to say )

quote Originally posted by aceman: ray b, how about we get rid of your BIG LIE here.... Romney's actual FEDERAL INCOME TAX rate is 13%. Cooter's is probably 5%, not 21%. How? The other 16% of the paycheck that Cooter never sees is: State income tax, FICA tax, health insurance, and a retirement plan. Then, Cooter may be getting a tax refund at the end of the year. Hell, Cooter may be one of the Americans that actually MAKES money of the federal government when April 15th comes around Now, I'm not saying that Romney would be up to even 20% if we compared apples to apples of the 21% of the paycheck that Cooter never sees. It always seems to me that most people can't complain about fair share of taxes from the rich until they pay their fair share of taxes.

The average household that brings in a little over 100 grand, with one child, and college expenses, usually ends up paying an effective tax rate of something like 16% (WITH the tax refund).

Looks like Tinton upset the apple cart and got himself banned.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Looks like Tinton upset the apple cart and got himself banned.

I am sure it was someone else's fault.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Looks like Tinton upset the apple cart and got himself banned.

Been out learning some plumbing ( OTJ style.. leaky shower i *had* to fix ), and just got back to see that.. what happened? I may have disagreed with him and his fundamentals, but always hate to see someone get banned for speaking out.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-16-2012).]