quote Originally posted by MadMark: RayB, you must be a hoot to talk to. If your inperson persona is as it seems in these posts, you would be a someone who talks loudly over everyone else ignoring what they say to get your little digs in without thought. Spitting saliva on everyone around you. Why don't you turn off the caps and quit shouting?

BECAUSE SO MANY NUT-CON'S HERE

ARE HARD OF READING FACTS

ESP FACTS THAT DO NOT FIT THEIR DOGMA
OR WHEN I CATCH THEM IN A BIG LIE

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Look at the rest of my post. Plenty of retort. I was just commenting on the sheer ignorance of what you said.

I already refuted what you said previously, so now what I say is ignorant because you do not believe what I say? Another ad hominem attack. Please do ignore.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Reagan's deregulations made it easier for businesses to move jobs overseas. That's the big issue here. Everything being made in China? That started with the gipper. Not that Clinton wasn't an idiot for signing NAFTA.

I am old enough to have seen the beginning of the move overseas.
It started with the transistor radio, China came much later in the game.
Also China had the number one economy in the world long before us, and may resume that position again.
Heavy government regulations, unions, and consumers who settled for cheap crap is the main reason jobs went to China.
Both parties are to blame equally, unless one is drinking Kool Aid.

[This message has been edited by partfiero (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: It doesn't matter if you didn't complain. Deep down inside, would you have wanted it easier?

No. I wanted to earn what i had. Apparently we were raised differently. I was raised to stand on my own 2 feet. And if i fail, i learn not to do whatever stupid thing i just did again.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-13-2012).]

Ah... why bother.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by User00013170: To be fair, regardless of who signed it, Reagan did start the movement. It was one of the few things i disagreed with during his term. I was working at GM at the time and saw what it was going to do to our industry, and in turn the rest of the country due to the fall out.. Tho, if i had it to do over again, instead of fighting what was to be anyway, id have setup to profit from it. No sense fighting a battle that you wont win.

esp if you make a buck while the nation suffers

do you care if the original post was TOTALLY WRONG

OR IS A BIG LIE THAT FITS THE DOGMA OK ?

quote Originally posted by User00013170: No. I wanted to earn what i had. Apparently we were raised differently. I was raised to stand on my own 2 feet. And if i fail, i learn not to do whatever stupid thing i just did again.

My main point is, you're perfectly able to fail without doing something stupid. You can work hard and still fail. Used to be that wasn't the case, working hard would get you somewhere. Now its no guarantee, and it doesn't matter how much you put in.

quote Originally posted by ray b: esp if you make a buck while the nation suffers

If its out of my control, fine by me.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: If its out of my control, fine by me.

You'll be having lots of fun when armed hordes storm your mansion, wanting to put your head on a pike .

quote Originally posted by Tinton: My main point is, you're perfectly able to fail without doing something stupid. You can work hard and still fail. Used to be that wasn't the case, working hard would get you somewhere. Now its no guarantee, and it doesn't matter how much you put in.

There has NEVER been a guarantee you wont fail. Only in peoples imagination did it work that way, 'the good old days' are often seen thru rose colored glasses ( but we all do that at times, even my self ). Reality is/was/will be different.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Socialism has never 'won'. It has always failed. France ( and Greece, or countless other failed governments over the history of mankind ) demonstrate this rather well. Laziness for the majority and disincentive to achieve for the few can not be sustained indefinitely. At some point the stone no longer has any blood to milk out of it. France is going to find out what this is like real soon now, from this 'disincentive to achieve' that will drive the people that make the economy there to go elsewhere. Just to add success doesn't have to mean 'ludicrously wealthy', but it does at least mean working to be better than you are. If you never make it to 'ludicrous state', but have always strived to do better ( even if there were failures that set you back, like in my case ) and not just sit back and ride, then id still say that ones life was still a success.

France, Greece, etc have had debt problems because they try to manage and resolve their debt.

Are you forgetting how much of a deficit the US has? We're no better off, so I'd hardly say our system is a success. And if things keep going the way we're going we'll be farked as well. Its just that because we're still the premier world power when we want to borrow more or extend our debts, we BORROW more or EXTEND them whether other countries want to or not. That won't last forever.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO glad my 23yr old son does not think like Tinton. What a lazy piece of work you are. You want everything handed to you. You want the easy way to everything. You make me sick.

Nothing good comes easy. If you want to make yourself successful you certainly can't just wait around for that to happen, you have to EARN IT.

Sure it is harder if you start with less but it still can be done. There are a great number of men and women that started with NOTHING and have made themselves wealthy and you want to saddle them with the burden of taking care of you so that you can sit on your ass and just be complacent.

quote Originally posted by OutsideGroove: I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO glad my 23yr old son does not think like Tinton. What a lazy piece of work you are. You want everything handed to you. You want the easy way to everything. You make me sick. Nothing good comes easy. If you want to make yourself successful you certainly can't just wait around for that to happen, you have to EARN IT. Sure it is harder if you start with less but it still can be done. There are a great number of men and women that started with NOTHING and have made themselves wealthy and you want to saddle them with the burden of taking care of you so that you can sit on your ass and just be complacent.

I've been working since I was 16, got my college degree and own my house outright and I'm mostly debt free.

Burden of taking care of me? All I'm saying is that good jobs should be relatively easy to come by. People should be able to work and pay to live on their own if they want to, and they shouldn't have to give 200% effort to attain it. And there should be a safety net for those less fortunate. Its also true that its way too easy to get farked over in this country, especially with regard to health. These are certain things that government should help with, and not leave people to fend for themselves. And where should the money come from? The RICH. Most rich people didn't work hard to earn it anyways so WTF are you people so worked up for? You should be ashamed that they're rich at all, not support them in it.

Why am I the bad guy for wanting things easier? The way you all talk we should go back to 16 hour work days. I'm pretty sure all those extra hours of work will REALLY give you a leg up in life, right?
You go to school, get your degree, you should be able to find an entry level job with ease. If you haven't gone to college, etc, and you want a menial service industry job....you should be able to just show up and get one THAT DAY. Harder is not better.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Started with Japan, then with China. Government regulations didn't start it. It was actually deregulation and opening up to China, which started with Nixon. In any case, the Republicans and their policies are to blame.

You forgot a countries few in between.
Government regulations had and still have much to do with it.
Have you ever owned a business and had to deal with it, or just spouting left-wing BS?
Whenever ones says that only one side is to blame, they need to reeducate themselves.

quote Originally posted by partfiero: You forgot a countries few in between. Government regulations had and still have much to do with it. Have you ever owned a business and had to deal with it, or just spouting left-wing BS? Whenever ones says that only one side is to blame, they need to reeducate themselves.

Indeed, I didn't want to go that in-depth. You know what I mean anyways.

I've known many people who've owned their own businesses and seen what they've had to put up with. More problems with Republican policies that favor big business than regulations imposed by Democrats. And at least with the democrats' regulations they try to benefit workers and consumers.

I didn't say ONLY the Republicans were to blame. Just said they were to blame. I didn't leave out the option that the Democrats are to blame for part of it.

I'm of neither side I believe what I believe with some ideas taken from both sides.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I've been working since I was 16, got my college degree and own my house outright and I'm mostly debt free. Burden of taking care of me? All I'm saying is that good jobs should be relatively easy to come by. People should be able to work and pay to live on their own if they want to, and they shouldn't have to give 200% effort to attain it. And there should be a safety net for those less fortunate. Its also true that its way too easy to get farked over in this country, especially with regard to health. These are certain things that government should help with, and not leave people to fend for themselves. And where should the money come from? The RICH. Most rich people didn't work hard to earn it anyways so WTF are you people so worked up for? You should be ashamed that they're rich at all, not support them in it. Why am I the bad guy for wanting things easier? The way you all talk we should go back to 16 hour work days. I'm pretty sure all those extra hours of work will REALLY give you a leg up in life, right? You go to school, get your degree, you should be able to find an entry level job with ease. If you haven't gone to college, etc, and you want a menial service industry job....you should be able to just show up and get one THAT DAY. Harder is not better.

So you own your house? Sell that thing and move your tail to France where you can be happy and mediocre. Most rich people didn't earn it? You don't even have a clue. I am sure you think every kid should get a trophy and we shouldn't keep score.

I predict France will be just fine.
Seems things only ever really change when they find themselves at the brink.

I'm beginning to think the World don't get saved slowly and thoughtfully.
It get's saved by the skin of it's teeth at the last minute.
We always run it right to the brink.

Humans.
It's our way.

Wow ! storm the mansion and put the rich guys head on a spike! leftist dirty lazy hippy commie talk is what that is. I don’t think i have ever read anything so insanely stupid on this forum. That shiit is dangerous talk.

Sounds like civil war is closer than I thought, hmmmm, the lazy and stupid vs. the motivated and intelligent. Taking bets?

quote Originally posted by OutsideGroove: Most rich people didn't earn it? You don't even have a clue.

There you go talking about yourself .

Most rich people inherited their wealth. I don't know exact numbers but probably at least half or more with a net worth of $100,000,000 or more inherited it. People like Warren Buffet are the exception. You don't become insanely rich by putting in 50-60, or even 70-80 hour weeks. You might become lawyer rich or Doctor rich by doing that but not obscenely rich. And comparing lawyer or Doctor rich to obscenely rich like some people are....you might as well say they're not rich at all. Like comparing a light bulb's intensity to that of the sun.

And what about professional athletes? People who make millions per year for playing a game, while you bust your ass 50-60 hours a week for a fraction of what they make. Not that athletes don't work hard to be who they are, but its completely different from being chained to a desk for a relatively menial wage.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Wow! Leftist dirty lazy hippy commie talk is what that is. I don’t think i have ever read anything so insanely stupid on this forum. That shiit is dangerous talk.

My new sig!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Wow ! storm the mansion and put the rich guys head on a spike! leftist dirty lazy hippy commie talk is what that is. I don’t think i have ever read anything so insanely stupid on this forum. That shiit is dangerous talk. Sounds like civil war is closer than I thought, hmmmm, the lazy and stupid vs. the motivated and intelligent. Taking bets?

More like disenfranchised and denied opportunities vs. the lucky and connected. French revolution all over again. And I don't think you have enough bullets to beat back the entire prison population of the U.S. .

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Indeed, I didn't want to go that in-depth. You know what I mean anyways. I've known many people who've owned their own businesses and seen what they've had to put up with. More problems with Republican policies that favor big business than regulations imposed by Democrats. And at least with the democrats' regulations they try to benefit workers and consumers. I didn't say ONLY the Republicans were to blame. Just said they were to blame. I didn't leave out the option that the Democrats are to blame for part of it. I'm of neither side I believe what I believe with some ideas taken from both sides.

If you are having a hard time here, a great place for a single guy to go is China.
Every kid is required to take English in grammar school. They need thousands of teachers.
You do not need to speak the language, the system they use doesn't require it.
All you need to be is American, Canadian or British, that is it.
While I lived there I met many of them, they love it.
Most said they would never return home.
Plus your view of the world will change immensely.
One of the flights I took there, half of the plane was full of new recruits.

Everyone here has drank the Kool-Aid and thinks they'll be rich and famous . Oh someone else made it big so I'll make it big too! Sorry to break it to you, but you'll be a peasant your entire life. Just like the rest of us .

And you get angry at me for bursting your bubble and taking you back down to reality. So many delusional people here

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Percentage below poverty line, France: 6.2% Percentage below poverty line, USA: 15.1% Source: CIA World Factbook

Define "Poverty Line"....BUSTED!

The "Poverty Line" is defined as "half the median Income"

But that is only one mistaken assumption on your part. I hardly know where to begin in terms of comparable lifestyles, disposable income, value of currency, debt, GDP, etc.

You ever been to France? I have...they can keep it!

So your gripe is about the obscenely wealthy and inheritance. Ok, make sure the inheritance rules have no excluded assets and takes most of it above what you consider ok. Enjoy farmers families and small business shutting down to pay the tax of the implied value on the company.
Anyone can become the next super rich by coming up with the better product and market it hard. Steve Jobs as an example, and almost lost the company when a product floundered, some of us locals remembered. Oh, he worked crazy hours. My friends mom buys a house every few months. She works nearly 20 hours a day, does all but some of the manual labor. She says she respects how hard working I am; Wow!

My wife and I are considering helping my brother in law with an emergency room visit and hospital stay. We have to consider the "gift tax" of paying his bill. That is crap! We can not just, pay and ignore the results. With all the transactions we do, the tax man has our back. And we do not yet have that much unnamed monies(has to go to payments).

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Everyone here has drank the Kool-Aid and thinks they'll be rich and famous . Oh someone else made it big so I'll make it big too! Sorry to break it to you, but you'll be a peasant your entire life. Just like the rest of us . And you get angry at me for bursting your bubble and taking you back down to reality. So many delusional people here

This is just so Sad.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Sounds fun, a friend of mine is actually one of those recruits and he's leaving in a couple weeks. One thing you can do is go where the opportunities are. But how American is it to have to leave your own country to find success?

I am thinking for you it would be a great opportunity to leave home "while you still know it all"!

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Define "Poverty Line"....BUSTED! The "Poverty Line" is defined as "half the median Income" But that is only one mistaken assumption on your part. I hardly know where to begin in terms of comparable lifestyles, disposable income, value of currency, debt, GDP, etc. You ever been to France? I have...they can keep it!

I've been to France. Its not that bad...but honestly I was just using it as an example, its not where I'd actually move.

I lived in the UK for a while. I got medical treatment there for $50 that would've cost $1000+ here. And if I'd been a citizen of the UK it would've been free.

Health and working conditions are most important to me. Here in the US for salaried positions you're hired on for 40 hours/week, but they expect 50-60 or more. Fark that. Something like 5 days off per year? **** THAT. France and many countries over in Europe you can expect as much as a month or 2 off per year.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: More like disenfranchised and denied opportunities vs. the lucky and connected. French revolution all over again. And I don't think you have enough bullets to beat back the entire prison population of the U.S. .

Very sad on so many levels.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: Very sad on so many levels.

Sad? What's sad are all the people who spend their entire lives working, believing they're just 1 step away from making it big.

I'm a realist.

"I don't think you have enough bullets to beat back the entire prison population of the U.S."

Why would one need a single bullet to beat them back, aren't they in prison already?