quote Originally posted by cliffw: How is that Animal Control safety net working out for you ?

Implemented poorly.

By your logic there shouldn't be animal control at all, it should just sort itself out on its own right?

Now do you see what's wrong with your line of thinking? I swear Republicans are misanthropic, almost anarchistic.

Freedom, like all things, should be in moderation. Sometimes its good sometimes its bad.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: The American system is holding me back. To move to France I realistically need a job that can get me a work visa. To get such a job, I need to build my resume and experience here first. Yet opportunities are slim and most of even the good jobs are just of the "wage slave" variety that doesn't give you the skillset necessary to attract the interest of companies overseas. If you built yourself up before 2008 you're fine. If you've just come out of school, you're farked. And the economy is farked because of selfish business tactics. Companies need to realize that if they fire someone, or don't hire someone when they could, its denying the market a consumer. The very reason they can't sell enough is because there aren't enough consumers. So each company is selfish, only caring about themselves and their profits, firing or not hiring and not realizing that them all doing it collectively kills the market. The selfishness is because of a lack of enough of a safety net and everyone having to look out for themselves with survival of the fittest mentality.

I certainly don't know your situation in life, but you sure have a dismall outlook on life. Believe it or not there are plenty of opportunities out there. Some might take some time to get ahead on and take a while to pan out, but they are there. If you want to make don't give up. I don't know much about the job situation in Georgia, but it cannot be worse than it is here in Mid-MIchigan and things are starting to take off here for people that have initiative. If the job situation is not to your liking in GA, then move to somewhere where the job outlook is better.

Why would you think it is easier for those in the past than for you now? You have no perspective at all if you are as young as I suspect. Try being over 60 and laid off like I was a year and a half ago. How hard do you think it is to get a job if you are older? I will tell you it is not easy. Even though I have over 40 years of experience I would have a hard time getting a job where my skills were utilized and I was paid half way decent. So I started my own business. It is not easy to do at anytime because it is all on you.

Look at your self in a deep and thorough way. What can you do that will be marketable? If you don't have anything marketable then get training or go back to school. If you have the determination start a business. Just understand that if you do start a business it is a lot of hard work and the pay most likely won't be great for at least a while. Understand also that if you start a business there is a high chance you will fail too. Don't be discouraged, failures are learning processes.

If you still don't like it here, you are really only making excuses for not being able to go to one of the European countries. They take in people from all over the world everyday, some of them have no money, no skills, no prospects and will be on the dole for a long time. So if that is what you want out of life then go for it and get on a boat to France, or Italy or Spain or Greece. How can they turn you down, you would fit right in.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Freedom, like all things, should be in moderation. Sometimes its good sometimes its bad.

Freedom is absolute. Unless you are a socialist of course, then you don't need any of it and end up like France.

Oh, and who said moderated anarchy would be a bad thing?

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by MadMark: I certainly don't know your situation in life, but you sure have a dismall outlook on life. Believe it or not there are plenty of opportunities out there. Some might take some time to get ahead on and take a while to pan out, but they are there. If you want to make don't give up. I don't know much about the job situation in Georgia, but it cannot be worse than it is here in Mid-MIchigan and things are starting to take off here for people that have initiative. If the job situation is not to your liking in GA, then move to somewhere where the job outlook is better. Why would you think it is easier for those in the past than for you now? You have no perspective at all if you are as young as I suspect. Try being over 60 and laid off like I was a year and a half ago. How hard do you think it is to get a job if you are older? I will tell you it is not easy. Even though I have over 40 years of experience I would have a hard time getting a job where my skills were utilized and I was paid half way decent. So I started my own business. It is not easy to do at anytime because it is all on you. Look at your self in a deep and thorough way. What can you do that will be marketable? If you don't have anything marketable then get training or go back to school. If you have the determination start a business. Just understand that if you do start a business it is a lot of hard work and the pay most likely won't be great for at least a while. Understand also that if you start a business there is a high chance you will fail too. Don't be discouraged, failures are learning processes. If you still don't like it here, you are really only making excuses for not being able to go to one of the European countries. They take in people from all over the world everyday, some of them have no money, no skills, no prospects and will be on the dole for a long time. So if that is what you want out of life then go for it and get on a boat to France, or Italy or Spain or Greece. How can they turn you down, you would fit right in.

My outlook isn't that dismal, I'm just stating the things that are in my way.

There are opportunities but its a matter of statistics. For each opportunity, there might be 10, 20, 50 other people applying. And you have no idea what will actually get you "in", many times you have to know someone. The way it is, you can be the best with the most marketable skills and they can choose someone else. Then, you have it where you can go through opportunity after opportunity, all with the same level of competition. I've never been someone that competes for things, I usually go with what's the sure bet. When I was applying to colleges I only applied to one, that I knew I'd get into on the first try. Instead of wasting my time applying to schools at my level or better where it might be a 1/50 shot of getting in. I've always been someone who wants to be comfortable with what I have instead of striving for things that might be beyond me, even though I have good potential.

I've had good, well-paying jobs. Office jobs too, prestigious. But none of them have given me the kind of skills needed to really market myself. There's a gap in job postings. You have entry level positions, which are few and very competitive these days. Then you have higher tiers which require much more experience and a much more diverse skillset that someone like me can't attain without getting the right opportunity in the first place. The good jobs I've worked have been little more than data entry, them never trusting me with any real responsibility and never utilizing my full potential. Them basically using me to get a project or two done, then when the contracts up I'm out. I'm not in a bad position in life but in terms of CAREER its not that great. Its not that I don't take the initiative and strive, I can when I want to/need to. Its just that whenever an opportunity like that comes up, there's always someone else who has proven experience and skills that they go with. Employers these days are too cautious, too selfish, to really give someone a chance to prove themself.

My perspective? I started working in IT during the dot-com boom.... I can remember the 90's and early 00's when EVERY place had "Now Hiring" signs in their window, and employers practically begged you to work for them. Things have changed big time and I don't need 40-50 years of perspective to see that.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: My outlook isn't that dismal, I'm just stating the things that are in my way. There are opportunities but its a matter of statistics. For each opportunity, there might be 10, 20, 50 other people applying. And you have no idea what will actually get you "in", many times you have to know someone.

Then make your own opportunity. Roadblocks are your own. They are only in your way if you allow them to be.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I've always been someone who wants to be comfortable with what I have instead of striving for things that might be beyond me, even though I have good potential.

Which is why you will never succeed. You have no drive to do so. You would do well over in the EU, just sit back and be part of the machine. You cant get ahead, but then again, nor can anyone else..

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: So your original facts were wrong? We actually have much less millionaires than you originally said? That means France looks more and more appealing. Not only that but they've had very steep tax brackets for years, AND they have plenty of millionaires? The Republitard herp derp arguments in this thread are fundamentally flawed.

The facts aren't WRONG, I was just erroneously mis-interpreting them.

According to the IRS, in 2008 there were 321,294 U.S. taxpayers with an adjusted gross income of $1,000,000 or more. That's 0.23% of all taxpayers in the United States. Yes, less than 1/4 of 1% of all taxpayers make more than $1 million dollars a year.

So re-doing my math, that would be:
1 out of every 996 people in the US is a millionaire (assuming a population of 320 million in the US)
1 out of every 22,000 people in France is a millionaire (assuming a population of 66 million in France)


Anyway, I kind of feel bad for saying this, but man you really sound pathetic.

It's really a shame that you feel so sorry for yourself, but it's no one's responsibility in this world but your own to make ends meet. Paraphrasing all your sadness here, you're basically telling us that you're pathetic and submit yourself to the government because life is just too hard.

I've got some VERY solid advice for you, which I really suggest you take to heart... things will only get worse for you if you continue to feel sorry for yourself and play the part of the victim. You can continue to be a ***** , or you can grow a pair and work hard and make something of yourself.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Then make your own opportunity. Roadblocks are your own. They are only in your way if you allow them to be.

Haha, and how would I do that? Start my own business?

My Dad has owned his own business for years, and he barely makes above poverty line. Its a huge investment and a huge opportunity cost, for something that probably won't be successful.

All the while you have to worry about day-to-day life and making ends meet. I wouldn't stake my life and all that on a new business venture in a bad economy.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I wouldn't stake my life and all that on a new business venture in a bad economy.

Again, you show you have no drive. Success involves risk. It involves drive to actually get off ones butt and do it.

Best just enjoy the life you have and forget your dreams as you wont be improving it anytime soon and wont be reaching those dreams with that attitude.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Again, you show you have no drive. Success involves risk. It involves drive to actually get off ones butt and do it. Best just enjoy the life you have and forget your dreams as you wont be improving it anytime soon and wont be reaching those dreams with that attitude.

You know what? Reading these posts from TinTon is like when my wife and I watch Hoarders on A&E for no other reason than to get us motivated to keep our house spotless!

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Again, you show you have no drive. Success involves risk. It involves drive to actually get off ones butt and do it. Best just enjoy the life you have and forget your dreams as you wont be improving it anytime soon and wont be reaching those dreams with that attitude.

You could say I have no drive. Getting a "good" job should be easy. Good job meaning you can pay your bills and afford to live on your own, and possibly make enough to set some aside. It shouldn't be something you have to STRIVE for because that implies that there's people who don't make it.

50 years ago, you could just go out looking for jobs and find one like that. No striving necessary, unless you consider going out and looking as striving.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You know what? Reading these posts from TinTon is like when my wife and I watch Hoarders on A&E for no other reason than to get us motivated to keep our house spotless!

Well, everyone can be an example. Just some are an example of failure, and to avoid.

And no, i have never said i'm perfect, but i refuse to just lay down and say 'i cant' and will forge ahead, even if its small steps. How did that go again, 'there is no try, there is do, or don't do'

quote Originally posted by Hank is Here: I question how you determined these numbers. IMHO I think the term millionaire is being thrown around two different ways. In terms of the French tax the term millionaire is someone with an annual income of over a million. In terms of the 3.1 millionaires in the US I think that number is being used as individuals with a Net worth of over a million. A person can easily have a net worth over a million with an income of just a few thousand dollars a year. It appears to be an apples to oranges comparison.

From a New York times article, number of families with an income over $2 million: 135,000

That makes it 1 in 2,370 in the U.S. for $2 million in income.

Here is a blog site, quoting a Wall Street Journal article:

According to a Wall Street Journal article published on October 25th, 2011 called The Wild Ride of the 1%, in 2007, before the Great Recession, there were nearly 400,000 individuals earning $1,000,000 or more in the United States.

That would mean it is 1 in 800 in the U.S.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Getting a "good" job should be easy.

Bull. That is a socialist mentality and is not how we do things here in America " Bla bla bla I want my stuff handed to me, i shouldn't have to work for it."

Get off your butt and stop complaining

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Like the others have said, don't let the door hit you in the ass. But then again, with your level of drive, you wont be going anywhere.

Its easy enough.

I find a new job in my field, do my work for a while. Build up my resume. Eventually the economy will recover to where employers demands will change, and things won't be as difficult. Might take 2 or 3 more jobs beyond that, but eventually my resume and the demand of overseas companies will meet and I'll be able to get out of here.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The facts aren't WRONG, I was just erroneously mis-interpreting them. According to the IRS, in 2008 there were 321,294 U.S. taxpayers with an adjusted gross income of $1,000,000 or more. That's 0.23% of all taxpayers in the United States. Yes, less than 1/4 of 1% of all taxpayers make more than $1 million dollars a year. So re-doing my math, that would be: 1 out of every 996 people in the US is a millionaire (assuming a population of 320 million in the US) 1 out of every 22,000 people in France is a millionaire (assuming a population of 66 million in France) Anyway, I kind of feel bad for saying this, but man you really sound pathetic. It's really a shame that you feel so sorry for yourself, but it's no one's responsibility in this world but your own to make ends meet. Paraphrasing all your sadness here, you're basically telling us that you're pathetic and submit yourself to the government because life is just too hard. I've got some VERY solid advice for you, which I really suggest you take to heart... things will only get worse for you if you continue to feel sorry for yourself and play the part of the victim. You can continue to be a ***** , or you can grow a pair and work hard and make something of yourself.

no net worth per person is HIGHER in france then in the USA 248k vs 290k for france

and 404k high net worth people [millionaires] or 1 in 163 vs 1 in 996 for the USA

YOU FAIL

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Bull. That is a socialist mentality and is not how we do things here in America " Bla bla bla I want my stuff handed to me, i shouldn't have to work for it." Get off your butt and stop complaining

Socialist mentality is the right way. Helping your fellow man is the right way. A system where some people can make their livelihood and others can't is the wrong system. If everyone could get a job that pays for them to survive, of course it would be EASY and that's what our society should strive for. Not making things more difficult so hardasses and ITGs can emphasize that their cocks are as long as their bootstraps they've pulled themselves up by.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Socialist mentality is the right way. Helping your fellow man is the right way. A system where some people can make their livelihood and others can't is the wrong system. If everyone could get a job that pays for them to survive, of course it would be EASY and that's what our society should strive for. Not making things more difficult so hardasses and ITGs can emphasize that their cocks are as long as their bootstraps they've pulled themselves up by.

Don't be threatened by my size... Tinton.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: You could say I have no drive. Getting a "good" job should be easy. Good job meaning you can pay your bills and afford to live on your own, and possibly make enough to set some aside. It shouldn't be something you have to STRIVE for because that implies that there's people who don't make it. 50 years ago, you could just go out looking for jobs and find one like that. No striving necessary, unless you consider going out and looking as striving.

So what has changed in that 50 years? I submit to you that we have had more and more government taking more and more money out of the economy along with regulations that have held businesses back. We also did not have the healthcare you feel is so needed. So how again was it better 50 years ago? And what would need to change to bring back the good ole days of yester year? Maybe less government, less taxes, less mouching off the public and less government regulation.

So all of the things that you say are necessary are what is holding us back from having that great time when you could just get out of high school and get a job.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Socialist mentality is the right way. Helping your fellow man is the right way. A system where some people can make their livelihood and others can't is the wrong system. If everyone could get a job that pays for them to survive, of course it would be EASY and that's what our society should strive for. Not making things more difficult so hardasses and ITGs can emphasize that their cocks are as long as their bootstraps they've pulled themselves up by.

If you truly believe that you are either lost, lazy or need to go back to school and learn how economics and political systems actually work.

And sure, helping your fellow man is a good thing. However, being forced to do it, as in a socialist society, is not a good thing. Nor is giving them handouts ( 'that good job without working' crap you were spewing ) helping, as that only makes matters worse and perpetuates the problem. A hand up, is good.


Oh, and as far as i'm concerned, you lost your right to vote in this country. Anyone who says socialism is the right way, doesn't deserve to participate and don't get a 'voice'.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by MadMark: So what has changed in that 50 years? I submit to you that we have had more and more government taking more and more money out of the economy along with regulations that have held businesses back. We also did not have the healthcare you feel is so needed. So how again was it better 50 years ago? And what would need to change to bring back the good ole days of yester year? Maybe less government, less taxes, less mouching off the public and less government regulation. So all of the things that you say are necessary are what is holding us back from having that great time when you could just get out of high school and get a job.

More people, population increases from Baby Boomers and the boomer echo and from immigration. That and decreases in economic opportunity. Pretty much all our manufacturing, industry, etc has gone overseas since the Reagan administration. Not to mention technology jobs and whatever else has been outsourced.

Its simple economics. More demand and less supply means a shortage. More people = more demand, and less economic opportunity means less supply. That's the root of the problem and has nothing to do with regulations hurting individual businesses. If anything there should be MORE regulation to keep jobs here and keep our money to ourselves. Though less regulation in certain areas would help businesses. We need the right kind of regulation to spur growth AND push them in the right direction, which is of course benefiting the American people.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tinton: And besides, its easy for people who have what they need/want to say that things should be hard/harder. Like to see you fools say that when you're on the losing end.

I have been there, and you know what i did? I didn't complain and whine that it was unfair for one thing. We were so bad off that we could barely afford to eat and if something broke ( like a old tv i got from goodwill ) we didn't have one anymore. I fought my way out of it. I did not expect nor ask for handouts. I started a business, AND worked at night.. Eventually the business was self supporting and the night job went away..

Now, some years later point i went back to work as an employee as i decided it wasn't the right time to keep running the business, but the point was that you dont lay down and cry about it but get off your butt and get your self out of it.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: More people, population increases from Baby Boomers and the boomer echo and from immigration. That and decreases in economic opportunity. Pretty much all our manufacturing, industry, etc has gone overseas since the Reagan administration. Not to mention technology jobs and whatever else has been outsourced. Its simple economics. More demand and less supply means a shortage. More people = more demand, and less economic opportunity means less supply. That's the root of the problem and has nothing to do with regulations hurting individual businesses. If anything there should be MORE regulation to keep jobs here and keep our money to ourselves.

Well Tinton, I would highly suggest that you never ever go into business with that attitude because you won't last long. You have no concept of how a business works or what affects businesses.

BTW increasing population is just more people to sell your services or supplies to. So that is a good thing for business. The dirth in births is one of the problems right now since there will be a whole lot less people to be customers and workers.

Just for your information it was Wild Bill Clinton who signed the NFTA treaties not Reagan

edit for spelling error.

[This message has been edited by MadMark (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by MadMark: How is taking money from another by force to give to someone else somehow compassionate or in your terms "the right way?"

You make more than you need to survive, a percentage should be taken off the top to help those less fortunate survive.

People's survival is more important than you being able to buy whatever you want.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: You make more than you need to survive, a percentage should be taken off the top to help those less fortunate survive. People's survival is more important than you being able to buy whatever you want.

So who is it up to, to decide I make enough? You, some committee somewhere or what? And again how is it compassion for a person or the government to compell at gun point and individual to give their money so that that government or individual can then feel good giving it to a third party? Just for your information some of us do this directly without government force even though the government is taking a larger and larger share of my wages. And just who in the country is at risk of survival? We have a lot of government programs out there to help in allmost all situations. And we still have private and religious organizations along with individuals that are compassionate and help the poor too.

quote Originally posted by MadMark: Well Tinton, I would highly suggest that you never ever go into business with that attitude because you won't last long. You have no concept of how a business works or what affects businesses. BTW increasing population is just more people to sell your services or supplies to. So that is a good thing for business. The dirth in births is one of the problems right now since there will be a whole lot less people to be customers and workers. Just for your information it was Wild Bill Clinton who signed the NFTA treaties not Reagan edit for spelling error.

You're an idiot.

There are only as many consumers as there are jobs. For someone to be a consumer they have to be making money. So all the extra people don't buy things with money they don't have from jobs they don't have. It doesn't increase the market instead it just puts more strain on society.

Hell its the reason why there's so much welfare in the first place. Make it so everyone can have a job and pay for their survival, and there's not much need for welfare.


The dirth in births? Are you insane? The dirth in births is happening RIGHT NOW and it won't affect the market and workforce for another 15-20 years. There was a boomer echo from when the baby boomers had children, from 1980-1995 or so. That's the problem we're dealing with right now, more people than we need entering the work force.

The problem you're thinking of is social security. That's only because the boomer echo is smaller than the original baby boom, so of course there will be less people contributing to social security. But you'd have to be retarded to think that MORE people would help the situation when there aren't enough jobs to go around already. Increasing the number of jobs, especially high-paying jobs, and you'll have more money going into SS. Just increasing the number of people won't do that.

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 09-13-2012).]

LOOK I KNOW YOU NUT-CON'S LOVE TO HATE THE FROGS

BUT THE FROGS ARE LOL AT THE BS IN THIS THREAD

THE OPENING NUMBERS ARE TOTAL BS
THEY ARE WRONG
OR A BIG LIE
HARD TO TELL NUT-CON'S LIKE COPS
THINK THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO LIE

FRANCE PER PERSON IS RICHER THEN THE USA BY 50,000.00
THERE ARE MORE NOT LESS MILLIONAIRES IN FRANCE
THEY WORK A SHORTER WEEK
THEY GET WAY LONGER VACATIONS
AND THEY HAVE GOV HEATH CARE THAT IS VERY GOOD

IN SHORT THEY DO IT BETTER

AND ALL YOUR NUT-CON ANTI-FROG BS IS WRONG

RayB, you must be a hoot to talk to. If your inperson persona is as it seems in these posts, you would be a someone who talks loudly over everyone else ignoring what they say to get your little digs in without thought. Spitting saliva on everyone around you. Why don't you turn off the caps and quit shouting?

quote Originally posted by MadMark: Just for your information it was Wild Bill Clinton who signed the NFTA treaties not Reagan edit for spelling error.

Reagan's deregulations made it easier for businesses to move jobs overseas. That's the big issue here. Everything being made in China? That started with the gipper.

Not that Clinton wasn't an idiot for signing NAFTA.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: You're an idiot.

Ah, the last refuge of those who have no retort. Ad hominen attacks! Wow, you really impress me. BTW, you are very wrong, but who cares what you think?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: From a New York times article, number of families with an income over $2 million: 135,000 That makes it 1 in 2,370 in the U.S. for $2 million in income. Here is a blog site, quoting a Wall Street Journal article: According to a Wall Street Journal article published on October 25th, 2011 called The Wild Ride of the 1%, in 2007, before the Great Recession, there were nearly 400,000 individuals earning $1,000,000 or more in the United States. That would mean it is 1 in 800 in the U.S.

WANT TO BET MOST OF THOSE MILLION A YEAR PEOPLE
PAY ROMNEY LIKE TAX RATES
NOT THE FULL RICH ARE OVER TAXED RATES

quote Originally posted by MadMark: So who is it up to, to decide I make enough? You, some committee somewhere or what? And again how is it compassion for a person or the government to compell at gun point and individual to give their money so that that government or individual can then feel good giving it to a third party? Just for your information some of us do this directly without government force even though the government is taking a larger and larger share of my wages. And just who in the country is at risk of survival? We have a lot of government programs out there to help in allmost all situations. And we still have private and religious organizations along with individuals that are compassionate and help the poor too.

Mathematics, logic, and reason. Take into consideration your standard of living, your expenses, what you need to survive, etc.

Gun point? You just went off the deep end I think I'll ignore the rest of your post.