Here is a good book on evil.

"The Lucifer Principle is freelance journalist Bloom's theory that evil-which manifests in violence, destructiveness and war-is woven into our biological fabric. A corollary is that evil is a by-product of nature's strategy to move the world to greater heights of organization and power as national or religious groups follow ideologies that trigger lofty ideals as well as base cruelty. In an ambitious, often provocative study, Bloom applies the ideas of sociobiology, ethology and the "killer ape" school of anthropology to the broad canvas of history, with examples ranging from Oliver Cromwell's reputed pleasure in killing and raping to Mao Tse-tung's bloody Cultural Revolution, India's caste system and Islamic fundamentalist expansion. Bloom says Americans suffer "perceptual shutdown" that blinds them to the United States' downward slide in the pecking order of nations. His use of concepts like pecking order, memes (self-replicating clusters of ideas), the "neural net" or group mind of the social "superorganism" seem more like metaphors than explanatory tools."

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Says who? And On who's timeline? I believe i remember reading that you and xb met once and spent some time together. Interesting.

Sorry I don't understand the timeline question.
I met up with brain (XB) and Mike (Lite_Spd) when XB was passing through, our most complex conversation was Mike's coolant leaking in his Fiero.

I don't want to have an argument with Bdub, he was programmed into religion since birth and he is entitled to his beliefs the same as I. He is sincere in his beliefs which is good and god sees him as being sincere. But he shouldn't judge and condemn people to hell because they don't believe like him. There are good people in all religions, at least people are acknowledging God and wanting to learn truths. Like I keep saying...You are judged by what's in your heart and not by what people can see on the outside.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: What defines us to be "Good Seeds" though? according to Bdub we could be positive outstanding citizens and do good our whole lives but because we haven't heard of Christ we are "Bad Seeds"

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Sorry I don't understand the timeline question.

You'll figure it out.

quote I met up with brain (XB) and Mike (Lite_Spd) when XB was passing through, our most complex conversation was Mike's coolant leaking in his Fiero.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-06-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: he was programmed into religion since birth and he is entitled to his beliefs the same as I.

No I wasn't...

I became a Christian before my parents.

Thank you.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: No I wasn't... I became a Christian before my parents. Thank you.

Well ok then,sorry for jumping to conclusions.

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: Well ok then,sorry for jumping to conclusions.

We've all done it. No harm done.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Accepted, and appreciated. Thank you. I realize that tone can't be expressed very well over the internet, so I understood where you were thinking from.

Thanks for being understanding. I appreciate that as well.

This entire thread made the baby Jesus cry.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: I think black thorne wanted to see people spew their dislike for him by starting this. Instead, I see people having a conversation while he yells in the background "look at me, Im still here". lol.

Though I wish it wasn't so... I think you're correct. I think that's what the "social experiment" was. To have us all scream at him, scream at each other, and have fist fights over religion while he sits there and takes notes. Then at the end be like "See, I told you this would happen, and look what happened."

But I really don't think that happened. And he's not getting any response from his original post... that's why he starts chiming in at the end of his thread every once in awhile to comment "Oh no, you are wrong. But keep watching my main post".

:thumbsdown:

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Yes indeed, fun it will be--I for one, can't wait, and I hope the horsemen ride today. Let the wailing, whining and crying begin.

That's classic Don York, right there. Haha!

edit to add:

quote Originally posted by maryjane: NOT letting us in on it--IS the lesser magic. Knowledge is power, and keeping that knowledge from others is the key to anyone's real power. It's an age old trick exposed many times throughout history--and, favorite trick of childish minds who seek to prove they have some sort of control over others. He pops in here, just long enough, to post a few words, to pique interest, hoping to ever increase the fervor of what he considers his subordinates trying to find out what it is he knows. He knows nothing.

I'd say that's a pretty good assessment. I'm not sure who he thinks he's fooling, though. Sorry Brian, but the "let's try to appear aloof and mysterious" act isn't very convincing.

I remember once, Brian commented that my beliefs and his were not all that different. That's not very true. I'm not sure how / why he got that impression.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 12-06-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: A corollary is that evil is a by-product of nature's strategy to move the world to greater heights of organization and power as national or religious groups follow ideologies that trigger lofty ideals as well as base cruelty.

I don't like that.
I'm not saying it's not true, I just don't like it.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I don't like that. I'm not saying it's not true, I just don't like it.

I'm waiting for you to actually tell us what you believe one day...

You're a very elusive creature.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I became a Christian before my parents.

I'm just asking you out of curiosity, most of my friends are Christian from birth because of parents, only 1 wasn't at birth as his parents allowed him to choose whether he should be or not when he was 16. If you became one before your parent's, what was it that made you join, and select Christianity of all the religions out there?
Again, asking out of curiosity because your the first person that has said they've picked their religion and not their parents.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: I'm just asking you out of curiosity, most of my friends are Christian from birth because of parents, only 1 wasn't at birth as his parents allowed him to choose whether he should be or not when he was 16. If you became one before your parent's, what was it that made you join, and select Christianity of all the religions out there? Again, asking out of curiosity because your the first person that has said they've picked their religion and not their parents.

My parents brought me to church when I was younger because it was "good for me". My mom grew up in a cult (a real one), and my dad grew up without church. But they thought I should have some kind of influence. So they brought me there. I asked a lot of questions, and really delved into the teachings... When I finally decided to give my life to Christ and live for Him, my parents were still like "Well, this is nice". I talked to them more about what it really meant to be a Christian... that it wasn't just some "good" thing you do on Sunday mornings. Then they started asking around with their peers at church and my dad eventually accepted Christ. My mom was a bit later but she found the Truth too.

So I guess it was a little misleading. I went to church at a young age... it just wasn't taught in the household. In many ways, I'm their "spiritual leader". My dad has really grown in his relationship with Christ lately, and it's really cool to see it happen. My mom struggles a lot, but she's on her way.

Though many of my friends from church are Christians with NO family history of church. I can think of at least 20 right now, probably 50 if I went through my phone and Facebook to strike my memory.

[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 12-06-2010).]

Is there a particular branch that you belong to?

One of my friends from overseas is similar. Her mother didn't go to church, she joined the local methodist church a bit later and then she brought her mother with her and they are die-hard methodist this day on. When I was living with them we went to a "Youth-Service" which the entire thing was done by people under 25. Very cool. They were even nice enough to have translators too... Biblical German words.. wow.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Is there a particular branch that you belong to? One of my friends from overseas is similar. Her mother didn't go to church, she joined the local methodist church a bit later and then she brought her mother with her and they are die-hard methodist this day on. When I was living with them we went to a "Youth-Service" which the entire thing was done by people under 25. Very cool. They were even nice enough to have translators too... Biblical German words.. wow.

Nah not really. I left my Evangelical-Free church when I was 18, and went searching for a different one. I landed upon a Baptist church for close to a year, but it was almost 40 minutes away, and I didn't like driving that far when I lived 10 minutes from where the rest of my family went. I tried some more, but then my old church got a new pastor, and I went back to give it a shot. I had actually left because I felt the people were incredibly fake, and it was detrimental to my Faith, but then I think God pulled me back to make a difference. When I left, people noticed (this wasn't a small church either). And when I came back, it was kind of like some doors were opened to open some peoples' minds that weren't before. Before I left, I couldn't really change anything because I was integrated in... but then when I got out and came back, I could talk to them about it.

So that's a long way of saying no. And I still don't agree with everything my pastor says... But I find that less important now. I read my Bible, and I learn from that. The Church is not the building... it's the body of believers. And I have a great group of friends at that church that I know have my back whenever I need it. So I don't think I'll be leaving anytime soon. I'd say my beliefs are closest to modern Baptists. I'm very conservative and Bible-Bible-Bible, but I'm not like "no dancing", "only sing hymns", et cetera.

EDIT: BTW, Those Youth services are the greatest. I think young people have some of the greatest passion for the Lord. And going to different Youth services really shows that. I feel like that age group is the prime if you want to find people that are there because they just want to praise the Lord with another group of Believers... not because they are too old to have friends so they go to church, or because they are too young to decide for themselves.

[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 12-06-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: That's easy for you to say, you're probibly right with God! I'm still waiting...

Waiting for what?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I don't like that. I'm not saying it's not true, I just don't like it.

The author starts out to explain that the act of killing is an evil act, yet it is an act that one must commit in order to survive. (Killing animals for food).

quote Originally posted by theBDub: EDIT: BTW, Those Youth services are the greatest. I think young people have some of the greatest passion for the Lord. And going to different Youth services really shows that. I feel like that age group is the prime if you want to find people that are there because they just want to praise the Lord with another group of Believers... not because they are too old to have friends so they go to church, or because they are too young to decide for themselves.

Church Youth Groups (if you're young) is a great place to get laid and smoke weed. I've have dispensed that wisdom to many a young lads looking for their chance to "do it".

I guess the thread is not working out for the OP. All that lesser magic is not working. I guess their is a better magic out there.Consider the season of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy Holidays.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Church Youth Groups (if you're young) is a great place to get laid and smoke weed. I've have dispensed that wisdom to many a young lads looking for their chance to "do it".

And where you with that advice when i was younger?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Waiting for what?

For God to speak to me.

It seems I cannot trust men with something so importent, so I am waiting to hear it from Gods lips himself.
Other people say God speaks to them, so I assume he will to me, too, eventually.

And yes, I am REALLY listening.

dawg believes, but does not know.
he wants to know, but nothing is provable.
how do we decide what is *real*?
start with some assumptions.
cause results in effect
"i think, therefore i am"
just because experience is subjective,
does not mean there is no truth.
go with your gut, dawg. the gut knows.

quote Originally posted by lurker: go with your gut, dawg. the gut knows.

My gut's an idiot.
It still believes Disco's comming back.
And to my dismay, it still has not.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 12-07-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: It still believes Disco's comming back. And to my dismay, it still has not.

I never particularly cared for Disco music at the time, but in retrospect I kinda like a lot that 70's stuff. And those groovy outfits must've been inspired by Satan himself.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I never particularly cared for Disco music at the time, but in retrospect I kinda like a lot that 70's stuff. And those groovy outfits must've been inspired by Satan himself.

I think it's fun.
It makes me smile & feel good.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: It makes me smile & feel good.

I thought that's what sex or religion was for?

maybe boondawg should start a religion. "church of the disco resurrection and bingo parlor". worked for l ron hubbard.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I thought that's what sex or religion was for?

Those make me sad.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Those make me sad.

Can't say that religion does much for me either, but I'm happy to admit the other one is still making me smile.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Always liked debating this in my Critical Thinking class. Thought I would throw it in.

Your Critical Thinking is flawed.

quote 1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.

or

quote 4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.

Says who? Where is the logic that says if A is true, B must therefore be true?
Both premises are dependent on these statements being accurate.
It might make sense to you for them to be true statements, but there's no logic proving it.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Says who? Where is the logic that says if A is true, B must therefore be true? Both premises are dependent on these statements being accurate. It might make sense to you for them to be true statements, but there's no logic proving it.

That's the whole problem with religions.. there is no proof. You have to have 'faith' to play the game, not 'facts'.

I didn't come up with the problem but if you read the Standford page it can be proven with modus ponens.

You didn't come up with a solution either--and neither did they.

They made an assumption based on the word "If", and so did you.

quote I didn't come up with the problem but if you read the Standford page it can be proven with modus ponens.

quote If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.

quote If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: That's the whole problem with religions.. there is no proof. You have to have 'faith' to play the game, not 'facts'.

Religions do require faith, but a "critical thinking" premise to debunk the existence of God should rely solely on logic, don't you think?