quote Originally posted by twofatguys: I wonder if I can become a born again, new age Amish. You know, the type that posts on the internet. Brad

Isn't that a Mennonite?

quote Originally posted by Tuna Helper: ... I have theories. Theories are good because they can be proven or disproven. One of them is that God and Satan are the same being.

Satan =/= God. God is unique as Creator and penultimate Judge. He is not bound by any physical laws, only those of His own Character (He is Holy, and therefore, cannot lie, for instance). Satan =/= Jesus, as Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, and, therefore, God Incarnate.

Satan's closest corollary is the archangel Michael. Both created beings, capable of only what God has given them to do. God, as omniscient Creator and Ruler, knew of Satan's rebellion, and uses him to provide a clear choice to humankind between Himself and darkness. See the Book of Job, for instance.

Just as there is, really, no such thing as "cold" - we are describing an absence of heat, and there is no such thing as "dark" - an absence of light, we can say that "evil" is simply an absence of God, since God is the source of all good things. Keep in mind that I am not saying that we can ignore the absence of heat. I'm saying that we don't really manufacture cold - refrigerators and air conditioners are heat pumps in reverse - and we can't manufacture darkness, either. The presence of evil in this world is the absence in the human heart of God, and any good that is done, whether in His name or not, is done through Him so that each of us has no opportunity to stand before Him at the end and say, "I didn't know."

quote "God created man in his own image". Does that mean that man only looks like God? I think that means not only in appearance, but in personality as well. God has shown anger, and vengeance as well as benevolence, just as people do. If we are created in His image then wouldn't it stand to reason that there is a little bit of Him in each of us? Perhaps what LaVey is saying is really to look to yourself for strength and courage rather than wishing (praying) for an external force to help.

We are made in His image to be able to make a distinction between good and evil. Other created beings can't do that, so, in this, we are unique. God does not have hands, feet and eyes in the physical sense. The Bible (and other writings) anthromorphize Him as a function of understanding. There is no literal "hand of God" or "finger of God." God doesn't "see" with eyes - He just knows.

quote I don't think that God is inexplicable without Satan, or that God needs Satan around in order to be understood. Or that there is any confusion about who is "in charge". Which creates? Which corrupts?

How do you define good without bad, or right without wrong? Isn't God the original corrupter by tempting Adam and Eve with the apple tree?[/quote]

Not at all. Just because there are beautiful women in the world does not mean that I am being tempted by them. This shifts the blame away from me to the woman or to God Himself. If and when I am tempted, it is all on me - with, I am sure, some egging on by Satan. I, of course, then have additional choices, including giving into temptation. Again, not God's fault nor doing. Christians are not immune to Satan's influence, but we understand that we have a choice, and, with His power, to say, "Get thee behind me."

quote What I really want to believe in is something like the Force. "It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." There is so much we still don't know about life and the world we live in.

I believe that this was Bhuddism, espoused by Lucas.

quote Just as there is, really, no such thing as "cold" - we are describing an absence of heat, and there is no such thing as "dark" - an absence of light, we can say that "evil" is simply an absence of God, since God is the source of all good things. Keep in mind that I am not saying that we can ignore the absence of heat. I'm saying that we don't really manufacture cold - refrigerators and air conditioners are heat pumps in reverse - and we can't manufacture darkness, either. The presence of evil in this world is the absence in the human heart of God, and any good that is done, whether in His name or not, is done through Him so that each of us has no opportunity to stand before Him at the end and say, "I didn't know."

How would you define cold to an infant in the womb, when all it has ever known is heat? You have to experience both to know the difference. People define what they know by experience.

quote We are made in His image to be able to make a distinction between good and evil. Other created beings can't do that, so, in this, we are unique. God does not have hands, feet and eyes in the physical sense. The Bible (and other writings) anthromorphize Him as a function of understanding. There is no literal "hand of God" or "finger of God." God doesn't "see" with eyes - He just knows.

Animals don't know between right and wrong?
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80562414/
Google "hero dog"

Any dog owner knows that dogs know when they have been bad. there have been reports of dolphins saving lost/drowning swimmers.
Nice of you to not address where I said

quote in personality as well. God has shown anger, and vengeance as well as benevolence, just as people do.

quote Not at all. Just because there are beautiful women in the world does not mean that I am being tempted by them. This shifts the blame away from me to the woman or to God Himself. If and when I am tempted, it is all on me - with, I am sure, some egging on by Satan.

You don't have the desire to look and admire their beauty? Are you a eunich? (j/k)

My point to the post was that as we are created in the image of God, God must be in the image of us as well. You can't say that while people are capable of murder, thievery, and other bad things, yet God isn't. Go back and read the Old Testament.


I tend to get annoyed during religious discussions. I think there are three kinds of people, those who either don't believe or are casual believers, those who are Sunday regulars, and the zealots. I always end up talking to zealots. (If you aren't saved, you are going to hell! types) They and many others simply ignore the old testament, or logic it into obsolescense and take the New Testament word for word and hard and fast. Now, as long as we can keep an open mind, and things civil I'll be fine.

[This message has been edited by Tuna Helper (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: There are very good people out there who are religious. Belonging is what we all want and a church and/or religion brings people together who otherwise wouldn't. We all struggle with contradictions and the cruelty of life. We all have a mistrust of others yet we all want to trust each other. Religion tries to make sense of it all and tries to help us strive to be better side of life. And that I think is positive.

Perhaps traditional accepted religions in today's world are like that for the most part. But if you go back in time a little bit, very few religions didn't have their days of killing an pillaging the 'unbelievers'.

And sure, i guess it helps those that need to be told what to think and the difference between right and wrong. But not all of us want to 'belong' and be led around.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: Satan =/= God. God is unique as Creator and penultimate Judge. He is not bound by any physical laws, only those of His own Character (He is Holy, and therefore, cannot lie, for instance). Satan =/= Jesus, as Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, and, therefore, God Incarnate.

According to the Bible, god created Satan. God also supposedly created Jesus. So why is one considered God incarnate, and the other not? Satan is just as much a "son of god" as Jesus. But I guess since Jesus was squeezed out through a vagina, that makes him more holy?

Also, since god apparently does not see fit to destroy Satan, it implies that god condones Satan's existence. As a matter of fact, the Bible says that Jesus himself will set Satan loose on us during the Apocalypse (along with the 4 horsemen, and a bevy of other nasty things). Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

http://www.metrolyrics.com/...ics-steppenwolf.html
Humanity grew weary of it's doubtful state of mind
So it summoned from far and called from near
All the wise men thought to be sincere
To heal it's wounds and make it whole
And the lead the way back to the soul

The Charlatans they stayed behind
To count their bags of gold
And some stayed away as if to say
I know that my way's the only way
Afraid to learn they may be wrong
They preach their nothingness at home

But the wise men came together
With the hope to free mankind of the rubbish
That had gathered in God's name
To embrace and trust each other
In the search for the supreme and they found
That all their teachings were the same

And when at last the word went round
That all were one and all
Many returned to seek the light
Nobody claimed that he was right
It's sad to know it's just a song
To dream and hope still can't be wrong

But the wise men came together
With the hope to free man kind of the rubbish
That had gathered in God's name
To embrace and trust each other
In the search for the supreme and they found
That all their teachings were the same

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: God is unique as Creator and penultimate Judge.

So, if God is the penultimate Judge, who is the final Judge?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 12-05-2010).]

Jesus Christ on a cracker

This thread...what the fxkc happened?

No matter...For those who care, there have been a few new observations posted...

Now I must take my leave, lest I get sucked into the religious banter and get off topic even further.

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: This thread...what the fxkc happened?

you expected something different?

let's say someone were to create a thread called
"Musings and observations from a Christian perspective"
or
"Musings and observations from a Muslim perspective"
or
"Musings and observations from an Atheist perspective"

wouldn't you expect it to get funky, especially if it wasn't tagged "religion"?

Not that I didnt suspect it would go into a religious discussion, just wasn't expecting it to be this hot of a topic...

I underestimated the topic. I knew there would be replies. Hence the social experiment portion of the first post (though only part of it in all honesty). Now to get the rest of my "data" so to speak for the experiment, and I'm happy.

My commendations to Patrick and Khw though You should know why, as it pertains to your earlier on posts

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Also, since god apparently does not see fit to destroy Satan, it implies that god condones Satan's existence.

He acknowledges satan's existance, admits his activities, but He will not accept mankind's absorption of satan's influence.

quote As a matter of fact, the Bible says that Jesus himself will set Satan loose on us during the Apocalypse (along with the 4 horsemen, and a bevy of other nasty things). Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

Yes indeed, fun it will be--I for one, can't wait, and I hope the horsemen ride today. Let the wailing, whining and crying begin.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So, if God is the penultimate Judge, who is the final Judge?

I am.

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: Jesus Christ on a cracker This thread...what the fxkc happened? No matter...For those who care, there have been a few new observations posted... Now I must take my leave, lest I get sucked into the religious banter and get off topic even further.

Take your leave, as it did not get the personal attention you were screaming for. (I guess the pitty party poor me did not work this time!!) Consider this MY observation.

Wasn't the main reason behind this thread. Lesser magic is working, just in a different sense than I expected it to. Not a big deal, I'll take what I can get The results are still fitting in my opinion, so it works.

No pity party requested, nor needed. And I certainly don't want the pity of the people here. Again, results still fitting, just not exactly what I had planned for the social experimentation part of this thread.

[This message has been edited by Xerces_Blackthorne (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: Wasn't the main reason behind this thread. Lesser magic is working, just in a different sense than I expected it to. Not a big deal, I'll take what I can get The results are still fitting in my opinion, so it works. No pity party requested, nor needed. And I certainly don't want the pity of the people here. Again, results still fitting, just not exactly what I had planned for the social experimentation part of this thread.

Can I guess?

Did you expect people to get very angry and throw Christ at you like it was a weapon? Or tell you you need to change everything about you?

You weren't too far from wrong, but I'd imagine in another forum or another place, that exact scenario might have happened (unfortunately).

Serious questions: 1) When your "social experiment" is over, will you let us in on it?
and
2) Why do you call it "lesser magic"? Isn't it more just manipulation of the mind?

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Can I guess? Did you expect people to get very angry and throw Christ at you like it was a weapon? and

Actually...yeah, I did........even though it was Blackthornes thread, thats EXACTLY what I expected to happen.....strange, man, strange.

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: No pity party requested, nor needed. And I certainly don't want the pity of the people here. Again, results still fitting, just not exactly what I had planned for the social experimentation part of this thread.

You seem to hold such contempt for the people on this forum, until your Fiero breaks down.

This thread reminds me of Robot Chicken.
"Everything is proceeding as I have, uh, I didn't expect THAT!"

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Can I guess? Did you expect people to get very angry and throw Christ at you like it was a weapon? Or tell you you need to change everything about you? You weren't too far from wrong, but I'd imagine in another forum or another place, that exact scenario might have happened (unfortunately). Serious questions: 1) When your "social experiment" is over, will you let us in on it?

NOT letting us in on it--IS the lesser magic. Knowledge is power, and keeping that knowledge from others is the key to anyone's real power. It's an age old trick exposed many times throughout history--and, favorite trick of childish minds who seek to prove they have some sort of control over others. He pops in here, just long enough, to post a few words, to pique interest, hoping to ever increase the fervor of what he considers his subordinates trying to find out what it is he knows. He knows nothing.

quote 2) Why do you call it "lesser magic"? Isn't it more just manipulation of the mind?

i think he should remain exactly as he is.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Actually...yeah, I did........even though it was Blackthornes thread, thats EXACTLY what I expected to happen.....strange, man, strange.

I'm interested to know what your perspective is.

Did that happen, in your eyes? From my end, it seems there wasn't much attack. There was a little bit... but it seemed to die down pretty fast and settle in mature discussion. But then again, I can't really rate my own posts, or posts like mine.

So what is the verdict? DID we appear to use Jesus as a weapon?

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I agree, and kind of understood that. But you put it into better words than I could.

Forum posting rules prevent me from saying things as I would if this were a face to face discussion, but in explanation, I'll send you a pm.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: To put this a little bit clearer, if a man comes up to me and does charity and never cheats on his wife and never lies to his children... but isn't a Christian... I truly believe they are not going to see Heaven, and that concerns me. I want everyone to find Heaven, so I'm going to talk about it.

No offense, but personally I think this is a very radical view of Christianity. How sad so many have such a shallow view of God and judgment. The idea that a just and fair God would condemn a man for not being a Christian in my opinion is radical. How about the millions before us who never have even heard the story of Christ? The world is a big place.

I have no doubt those who are not Christian will see heaven as well as the Christians. Everything else is just details, and those are for the man up stairs to decide, not us.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: No offense, but personally I think this is a very radical view of Christianity. How sad so many have such a shallow view of God and judgment. The idea that a just and fair God would condemn a man for not being a Christian in my opinion is radical. How about the millions before us who never have even heard the story of Christ? The world is a big place. I have no doubt those who are not Christian will see heaven as well as the Christians. Everything else is just details, and those are for the man up stairs to decide, not us.

NOBODY gets to Heaven besides through Jesus. Nobody. Period. Are you suggesting that we can enter Heaven ourselves? Then what would be the point of Jesus dying? It would have been pointless.

I can start using God's Word to emphasize my point, but I don't think it would be particularly accepted in this thread.

I thought you said you were Mormon... which you claim is Christian. Don't you believe in the Bible?

[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: NOT letting us in on it--IS the lesser magic. Knowledge is power, and keeping that knowledge from others is the key to anyone's real power. It's an age old trick exposed many times throughout history--and, favorite trick of childish minds who seek to prove they have some sort of control over others. He pops in here, just long enough, to post a few words, to pique interest, hoping to ever increase the fervor of what he considers his subordinates trying to find out what it is he knows. He knows nothing.

Sounds a lot like those that wrote the bible.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Forum posting rules prevent me from saying things as I would if this were a face to face discussion, but in explanation, I'll send you a pm.

WOW!

[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub: NOBODY gets to Heaven besides through Jesus. Nobody. Period. Are you suggesting that we can enter Heaven ourselves? Then what would be the point of Jesus dying? It would have been pointless. I can start using God's Word to emphasize my point, but I don't think it would be particularly accepted in this thread. I thought you said you were Mormon... which you claim is Christian. Don't you believe in the Bible?

Claim? Many recognize us as Christian. Just because arrogant self righteous "Christians" such as your self believe they can dictate who and who is not a follower of Christ does not make it so. Must be nice being able to speak so boldly in the name of God of who and who will not see heaven. How arrogant of you.

yes, I believe in the bible, but to think all of those who have lived without knowing Christ or never having the opportunity to be taught the gospel are going to be damned into eternity is not only Draconian, but short minded. I believe if one lives and dies without having the opportunity to know Christ, then God will make it available to them in the after life. many assume that you must know Christ before you die. What about parts of the world where Christianity is not present? Are you saying those people will be condemned by their creator? For not knowing of Christ when they never had the opportunity in the first place?

If God is just and fair, he will grant all an opportunity to receive his gospel, whether it be in this life, or after death. If one lives and dies without knowing Christ, they will be given an opportunity.

Your right, they must go through Christ, however this does not mean just because one did not get the opportunity here, they are forever screwed. That I believe is very misguided and shallow.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: yes, I believe in the bible, but to think all of those who have lived without knowing Christ or never having the opportunity to be taught the gospel are going to be damned into eternity is not only Draconian, but short minded. I believe if one lives and dies without having the opportunity to know Christ, then God will make it available to them in the after life. many assume that you must know Christ before you die. What about parts of the world where Christianity is not present? Are you saying those people will be condemned by their creator? For not knowing of Christ when they never had the opportunity in the first place? If God is just and fair, he will grant all an opportunity to receive his gospel, whether it be in this life, or after death. If one lives and dies without knowing Christ, they will be given an opportunity. Your right, they must go through Christ, however this does not mean just because one did not get the opportunity here, they are forever screwed. That I believe is very misguided and shallow.

That's our job as Christians... to spread the Word of the Gospel.

You bring questions that are officially unanswered. My personal belief is that nobody enters Heaven except through Jesus... and it must happen in this life. Period.

Yes, that's radical.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: That's not what I meant. But I appreciate you calling me self-righteous without knowing me. I simply meant that you confused me when you said that, because it would appear to go against the Bible. I didn't say you weren't a Christian. I said that you claim yourself to be a Christian. That's it. There were no undertones. There were no suggestions. There wasn't anything that I said that claimed I could dictate who was and wasn't. Just me, saying you claim to be a Christian, so don't you believe in the Bible.

Do I believe in the bible?, yes.

Then please except my apologize. I took your statement as condescending, obviously this was not the intent. The problem with typing is there is no real way of hearing the tone behind the message. You will have to forgive me, but after living all my life having to deal with people who make it their mission to judge and tear down one's faith because their view of Christianity is not in agreement of their own, I have grown a bit short being politically correct in debate. We have different views on the little things, but agree on the big ones i.e. the savior. Thats fine in my book, thats why there are over 35,000 Christian denominations in this country, many with differing interpretation of doctrine. I simply don't believe its quite as black and white as others do when it comes to going to heaven or hell.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: So, if God is the penultimate Judge, who is the final Judge?

OK, so I'm scatter brained over the Adrian Gonzales trade/not trade/trade thing....

Judgment will happen. As BDub put it, we don't have what it takes (an unblemished record) to get to Heaven. We need someone to "pay the tab" for us, to impute holiness on us, because we can/could not do it ourselves. That provision has been made for us. We either accept that provision, or we don't. It could also be said that Judgment already exists, and we have a few years on this Earth to figure out a way out of it.

Nick, a just and fair God is also a holy God. We cannot stand in His presence because we are far from holy. Our standing as relates to His gift to us judges us; we, in a way, judge ourselves.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Claim? Many recognize us as Christian. Just because arrogant self righteous "Christians" such as your self believe they can dictate who and who is not a follower of Christ does not make it so. Must be nice being able to speak so boldly in the name of God of who and who will not see heaven. How arrogant of you. yes, I believe in the bible, but to think all of those who have lived without knowing Christ or never having the opportunity to be taught the gospel are going to be damned into eternity is not only Draconian, but short minded. I believe if one lives and dies without having the opportunity to know Christ, then God will make it available to them in the after life. many assume that you must know Christ before you die. What about parts of the world where Christianity is not present? Are you saying those people will be condemned by their creator? For not knowing of Christ when they never had the opportunity in the first place? If God is just and fair, he will grant all an opportunity to receive his gospel, whether it be in this life, or after death. If one lives and dies without knowing Christ, they will be given an opportunity. Your right, they must go through Christ, however this does not mean just because one did not get the opportunity here, they are forever screwed. That I believe is very misguided and shallow.

quote Originally posted by theBDub : That's not what I meant. But I appreciate you calling me self-righteous without knowing me. I simply meant that you confused me when you said that, because it would appear to go against the Bible. I didn't say you weren't a Christian. I said that you claim yourself to be a Christian. That's it. There were no undertones. There were no suggestions. There wasn't anything that I said that claimed I could dictate who was and wasn't. Just me, saying you claim to be a Christian, so don't you believe in the Bible.

etc etc

Now, xb is walking away smiling and laughing. This, is one of the things he is waiting for--Christians arguing among themselves.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: Do I believe in the bible?, yes. Then please except my apologize. I took your statement as condescending, obviously this was not the intent. The problem with typing is there is no real way of hearing the tone behind the message. You will have to forgive me, but after living all my life having to deal with people who make it their mission to judge and tear down one's faith because their view of Christianity is not in agreement of their own, I have grown a bit short being politically correct in debate. We have different views on the little things, but agree on the big ones i.e. the savior. Thats fine in my book, thats why there are over 35,000 Christian denominations in this country, many with differing interpretation of doctrine. I simply don't believe its quite as black and white as others do when it comes to going to heaven or hell.

Accepted, and appreciated. Thank you.

I realize that tone can't be expressed very well over the internet, so I understood where you were thinking from.

(Asking for the second time)
Your supposed beliefs do not match your sig line. Which is it? You say you neither believe in God or Satan. Now look at how you sign off on every message:

quote Why we call ourselves "Satanists" when there is no such thing as a devil or god in our opinion. vs. "The Devil and his angels work together like a military system. I dealt with one of his generals. The only humans he has interest in are the ones getting close to God. The rest of the world is ****ed and he knows he already owns their asses. If you want an encounter with the supernatural realm, try to know God. You'll get Satan's attention. Trust me."

So which is it? (For the second time) Do you believe in Satan or not? You say in the beef of your message it might as well be called humanism because of your belief in the supposed non-existance of God AND the Devil, but then you follow up your message talking about Satan as an actual entity in biblical respect.

I mean, you can believe what you want, but AT LEAST try to stay consistant in the course of one post.

Always liked debating this in my Critical Thinking class. Thought I would throw it in.

Problem of Evil -

1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.
2. There is evil in the world.
3. Therefore, an all-powerful and perfectly good god does not exist.

Edit to add some more info/ more complex version:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/

1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
5. Evil exists.
6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
7. Therefore, God doesn't exist.

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[This message has been edited by Fiero_Fan_88 (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by theBDub: That's our job as Christians... to spread the Word of the Gospel. You bring questions that are officially unanswered. My personal belief is that nobody enters Heaven except through Jesus... and it must happen in this life. Period. Yes, that's radical.

Yes it is. I'm sorry what you believe is wrong, but it's a harmless though unfruitful belief. So it doesn't matter anyways in the grand scheme of thing. You won't know because you're not going to wake up when you die. It's lights out and gone forever.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Always liked debating this in my Critical Thinking class. Thought I would throw it in. Problem of Evil - 1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not. 2. There is evil in the world. 3. Therefore, an all-powerful and perfectly good god does not exist.

We are like seeds down here on earth. Some seeds sprout beautiful trees and flowers and other seeds sprout weeds, stickers and undesirable plant life. We are like seeds in that we as humans can be uplifting and good to fellow man or wicked,mean and nasty.
We have good and evil in this life, it's our choice as to what we as seeds want to grow with our lives. Earth and us as physical beings on earth is like we are in an equilibrium between heaven and hell. We have both evil and good here, sort of like neutral ground. This life is like a testing ground so to speak. God will harvest all the good plant life and discard the weeds. Just trying to use an analogy here.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: Always liked debating this in my Critical Thinking class. Thought I would throw it in. Problem of Evil - 1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not. 2. There is evil in the world. 3. Therefore, an all-powerful and perfectly good god does not exist. Edit to add some more info/ more complex version: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/ 1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect. 2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil. 3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists. 4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil. 5. Evil exists. 6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil. 7. Therefore, God doesn't exist.

Says who?
And On who's timeline?

I believe i remember reading that you and xb met once and spent some time together.
Interesting.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-06-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: This life is like a testing ground so to speak. God will harvest all the good plant life and discard the weeds. Just trying to use an analogy here.

What defines us to be "Good Seeds" though?
according to Bdub we could be positive outstanding citizens and do good our whole lives but because we haven't heard of Christ we are "Bad Seeds"