quote Originally posted by tbone42: No worries Patrick, I said my piece. No need to worry about me being 'preachy' here form here on out. Officially leaving this thread now. Peace... Out!

My intention was not to chase anyone out of here, not that anyone would listen to me anyway.

I mentioned Ken Wittlief only because I feel people like him do more damage to religion than good. Ken just couldn't resist spewing out the god-talk every opportunity he had, no matter what the original topic might've been. I didn't dislike the guy, but I sure didn't miss his posts when he finally left the forum.

This thread reminded of the "good old days" as it seems to me a number of you just couldn't resist the "bait". Like wiggling a worm in front of a fish, several of you snapped at the opportunity to try and "save" the OP, even though he clearly stated he had no interest in reading these kind of responses.

I just find it interesting how the religious folk posting here in this thread have convinced themselves that they are doing the OP a favour of sorts by trying to convince him (or themselves?) the error of his ways. I find it to be rather disrespectful, not that I personally believe in what the OP follows, but it's his life and his choice.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: google "42" instead or maybe the hoopiest frood in the galazy, Zaphod Beeblebrox

That's me. DA signed that on my HHG albums years ago, "To the hoopiest frood this side of Milliway's"

And I believe, though the pronounciation is "magic thighs," the spelling is closer to Majikthize. Now I'll have to go look it up....

People who wish to witness should really pray for guidance before doing so, lest their message do more harm than good.
Quoting a Bible verse to someone who doesn't believe in the Bible will probably do as much good bringing them to Christ as quoting Dianetics to a Christian to bring them into Scientology.

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: I find it amusing to watch these people, to study them. To figure out what makes them tick. By analyzing these people, I have found that I am able to grow upon my ability to use lesser magic techniques to further my agenda, whatever that may be at the current moment in time.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: This thread reminded of the "good old days" as it seems to me a number of you just couldn't resist the "bait".

Hook, line and sinker. Hence why I didn't bother to reply to his post. You all let him push your buttons.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: That's me. DA signed that on my HHG albums years ago, "To the hoopiest frood this side of Milliway's" And I believe, though the pronounciation is "magic thighs," the spelling is closer to Majikthize. Now I'll have to go look it up....

LOL you're right.. its "Majikthise" hahaha.. been years since I read the books.
Now I'm out.. for realz.

I have to admit, I know very little about Satanism, as it is a fairly small and niche religion, but I'm interested to know more.

Christianity to me is fascinating, because there are so many people who truly believe in Jesus as the Son of God. I can see illiterate and naive people believing in that, but the master level of brainwashing to those who are at least literate is profound. It goes for all other religions too, so I'm not bagging on Christians, but because most people say they are Christians on this forum and for the sake of debate I'll pick on them.

Let me give you a quick summary of the REAL history of Jesus of Nazareth. I could add so many to this, but it would take up a lot of space. But I'll try to give a short summary.

Christians are a spin-off of Judaism. Jesus was part of an apocalyptic sect of Jews known as the Essene Jews. His Jewish ministry was about the Jewish God would bring a heaven on Earth within his life time (oops didn't happen). He was crucified by the Romans for public disturbance during Passover (a Jewish holiday) in Jerusalem and he was crucified (alone) as people did not gather for crucifixions. Later Paul developed the ministry of the Essene Jews and spread it to the Roman-Greco world. He used Jesus as an example of a good (Jew) to follow. It later became its own religion as it spun off as a sect of a Jewish religion based on they were accepting Gentiles in their sect. But even in early Christian history there were so many different versions of it till Emperor Constantine decided to unify them under a specific tent and those who remain a little off his flavor were persecuted and killed. Hence the Canonization of the Bible that discarded more Gospels on Christianity than the entire Old Testament combined.

If you want more I can give you more. Knowing the facts of history will destroy your faith in your religion. So if you choose to keep your faith in Jesus as the Son of God, beings saved and all of that, well...remain naive, ignore facts, shut your mind off, swallow the bill pill and sit and your shell and be happy. If you want to take the red pill, learn and read on real history.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 12-04-2010).]

Silly xb ... posting taboo opinions here is like yelling bomb in an airport.

Expose your opinions as different than the norm and they attack. In a world that hates people being different, pff is no exception.

This is why I have chosen to be a pastafarian!

It must get tiring always screaming for attention. Daddy issues?

I have every intention of updating this thread and posting AS TIME PERMITS, as stated in my last reply.

That said, those of you who are continuously posting negative comments in this thread can GTFO. You know who you are. Apparently either you are too dense to see the reasoning behind this thread, or just don't care. This thread isn't about attention, as so many of you seem to think. Quite frankly, I could give a rats nutsack whether you pay attention or not. If you are going to pay attention to this thread, I simply would ask that you keep your traps shut and read between the lines before posting.

From here out I will be posting to my original post and adding thoughts to it, lest I be lead off topic by the herd. I would also request that those of you posting trying to "convert" me please cease your attempts. Its not happening. Hasn't yet, and never will. You can take your mad redeemer and stuff him for all I care. I do not believe in your rhetoric, and never will. I am my own redeemer. So please cease and desist from your mindless prattle. All it does is make you look like a fool.

Any of you who truly have a interest in the inner workings of my thought process, then by all means keep an eye on my original post.

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: It is up to the person to decide what is right for them, good for them, et al. One should not follow the herd mentality of present day society. One should make their own decisions. Do what is best for them. Again, to be continued.

I think that part I have to agree with. Those who say you must turn the other cheek have the wrong idea as far as I am concerned. Why allow someone to think they did nothing wrong. They need to be held accountable for what they do.

And no one should follow the heard, we need to be individuals, but also work for the common good of our country. Because we are in some deep Doo Doo right now and if we don’t look out for ourselves we are going to be nose deep in it before the next year is over.

Then we will all be working for the Chinese. And that ain’t happening here.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

i notice my ratings have suddenly gone from 214 to 215. i guess i trampled on or supported someone's belief system. sure would like to know which. PM me.

quote Originally posted by lurker: i notice my ratings have suddenly gone from 214 to 215. i guess i trampled on or supported someone's belief system. sure would like to know which. PM me.

Neither! Pm sent!

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: I am my own redeemer. So please cease and desist from your mindless prattle. All it does is make you look like a fool.

I disagree. This thread is making YOU look like an attention whore. It screams "look at me!" But that's cool about Satanism and stuff, all the cool kids are doing it.

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: I have every intention of updating this thread and posting AS TIME PERMITS, as stated in my last reply. That said, those of you who are continuously posting negative comments in this thread can GTFO. You know who you are. Apparently either you are too dense to see the reasoning behind this thread, or just don't care. This thread isn't about attention, as so many of you seem to think. Quite frankly, I could give a rats nutsack whether you pay attention or not. If you are going to pay attention to this thread, I simply would ask that you keep your traps shut and read between the lines before posting. From here out I will be posting to my original post and adding thoughts to it, lest I be lead off topic by the herd. I would also request that those of you posting trying to "convert" me please cease your attempts. Its not happening. Hasn't yet, and never will. You can take your mad redeemer and stuff him for all I care. I do not believe in your rhetoric, and never will. I am my own redeemer. So please cease and desist from your mindless prattle. All it does is make you look like a fool. Any of you who truly have a interest in the inner workings of my thought process, then by all means keep an eye on my original post.

And how's all that working out for you?

[URL=http://books.google.ca/books?id=BocJx_KiZfsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=ayn+rand+%22anthem%22&source=bl&ots=VnIUAKI4A0&sig=hFfj9T2Is4j3HRohdiCdcwzIuOA&hl=en&ei=HXv6TIu0I42UnQexq-3HCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=fal se]http://books.google.ca/book...#v=onepage&q&f=false[/URL]

About 30 years before LeVeys version.

I am. I think. I will.

My hands . . . My spirit . . . My sky . . . My forest . . . This earth of mine. . . . What must I say besides? These are the words. This is the answer.

I stand here on the summit of the mountain. I lift my head and I spread my arms. This, my body and spirit, this is the end of the quest. I wished to know the meaning of things. I am the meaning. I wished to find a warrant for being. I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction.

It is my eyes which see, and the sight of my eyes grants beauty to the earth. It is my ears which hear, and the hearing of my ears gives its song to the world. It is my mind which thinks, and the judgement of my mind is the only searchlight that can find the truth. It is my will which chooses, and the choice of my will is the only edict I must respect.

Many words have been granted me, and some are wise, and some are false, but only three are holy: "I will it!"

Whatever road I take, the guiding star is within me; the guiding star and the loadstone which point the way. They point in but one direction. They point to me.


I know not if this earth on which I stand is the core of the universe or if it is but a speck of dust lost in eternity. I know not and I care not. For I know what happiness is possible to me on earth. And my happiness needs no higher aim to vindicate it. My happiness is not the means to any end. It is the end. It is its own goal. It is its own purpose.

Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars.

I am a man. This miracle of me is mine to own and keep, and mine to guard, and mine to use, and mine to kneel before!

I do not surrender my treasures, nor do I share them. The fortune of my spirit is not to be blown into coins of brass and flung to the winds as alms for the poor of the spirit. I guard my treasures: my thought, my will, my freedom. And the greatest of these is freedom.

I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask none to live for me, nor do I live for any others. I covet no man's soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

I am neither foe nor friend to my brothers, but such as each of them shall deserve of me. And to earn my love, my brothers must do more than to have been born. I do not grant my love without reason, nor to any chance passer-by who may wish to claim it. I honor men with my love. But honor is a thing to be earned.

I shall choose friends among men, but neither slaves nor masters. And I shall choose only such as please me, and them I shall love and respect, but neither command nor obey. And we shall join our hands when we wish, or walk alone when we so desire. For in the temple of his spirit, each man is alone. Let each man keep his temple untouched and undefiled. Then let him join hands with others if he wishes, but only beyond his holy threshold.

For the word "We" must never be spoken, save by one's choice and as a second thought. This word must never be placed first within man's soul, else it becomes a monster, the root of all the evils on earth, the root of man's torture by men, and of an unspeakable lie.

The word "We" is as lime poured over men, which sets and hardens to stone, and crushes all beneath it, and that which is white and that which is black are lost equally in the grey of it. It is the word by which the depraved steal the virtue of the good, by which the weak steal the might of the strong, by which the fools steal the wisdom of the sages.

What is my joy if all hands, even the unclean, can reach into it? What is my wisdom, if even the fools can dictate to me? What is my freedom, if all creatures, even the botched and the impotent, are my masters? What is my life, if I am but to bow, to agree and to obey?

But I am done with this creed of corruption.

I am done with the monster of "We," the word of serfdom, of plunder, of misery, falsehood and shame.

And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride.

This god, this one word:

"I."

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 12-04-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: This is why I have chosen to be a pastafarian!

Then I'm a frisbetarian.
It teaches that when you die, your soul gets stuck on the roof of the garage.

Don, to answer your question, its working out great.

MEM, I am familiar with Ayn Rand. And I'd like to point out that her works in part were influential to the works of LaVey.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: <snip>

I find it ironic, and somewhat humorous, that Christianity was institutionalized by a Roman emperor... not Jeshua himself, not one of his apostles... a Roman pagan. If Emperor Constantine had chosen one of the other people running around professing to be the "son of god" at the time, it would have been a completely different religion.

Also, keep in mind that Jeshua was crucified because he was a heretic. He blasphemed his own religion (Judaism), and was crucified as an example. Unfortunately, that tactic backfired, and he became a martyr.

If it weren't for the Jewish church's harsh response to Jeshua's crime, and the blessing of a Roman emperor, Christianity would not exist today. IMO, that has nothing to do with god, and everything to do with a few decisions made by a few powerful men.

Why can't people just live their lives by just listening to their conscience, everyone has one, it's built into us. Why must everyone claim to belong to this or that. It's what kind of person you are (your core being) that determines your standing in the next life,not what church or affiliation you belong to. A good hearted person will not have to worry if they never attended any church built with the hands of men or believed in any man made religion. I wish everyone would just treat their neighbor as they wish to be treated (thats the whole duty of man) and this world would be a much better place.

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: Why can't people just live their lives by just listening to their conscience, everyone has one, it's built into us. Why must everyone claim to belong to this or that. It's what kind of person you are (your core being) that determines your standing in the next life,not what church or affiliation you belong to. A good hearted person will not have to worry if they never attended any church built with the hands of men or believed in any man made religion. I wish everyone would just treat their neighbor as they wish to be treated (thats the whole duty of man) and this world would be a much better place.

yep, yep, yep. + for you.

quote Originally posted by tbone42: Neither! Pm sent!

scum! i'll get you for that!

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: Why can't people just live their lives by just listening to their conscience, everyone has one, it's built into us. Why must everyone claim to belong to this or that. It's what kind of person you are (your core being) that determines your standing in the next life,not what church or affiliation you belong to. A good hearted person will not have to worry if they never attended any church built with the hands of men or believed in any man made religion. I wish everyone would just treat their neighbor as they wish to be treated (thats the whole duty of man) and this world would be a much better place.

Because most people are sheep and have to be led.

quote Originally posted by lurker: yep, yep, yep. + for you.

Thank you

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Let me give you a quick summary of the REAL history of Jesus of Nazareth.

Well since neither of us were there (you're not THAT old, are you? ), we have to trust someone else to give us the 'correct' story. I have heard what you wrote before from someone else (don't remember where), but I would like to know your sources. PM me if you want, so as to not derail this thread anymore.

quote Originally posted by Shananigans: Why can't people just live their lives by just listening to their conscience, everyone has one, it's built into us. Why must everyone claim to belong to this or that. It's what kind of person you are (your core being) that determines your standing in the next life,not what church or affiliation you belong to. A good hearted person will not have to worry if they never attended any church built with the hands of men or believed in any man made religion. I wish everyone would just treat their neighbor as they wish to be treated (thats the whole duty of man) and this world would be a much better place.

Because what man is truly good?

XB, neither my first post nor this post are trying to convert you. But if you'd like to read, feel free. Just know this is a Christ-lovers perspective.

Shananigans, for those of us that believe in the Lord that came down and died for our sins, "doing good", "the golden rule", and other "good" things are nothing. We are still broken people. After all, we all have done something wrong, right? And because I truly believe that I have found Truth in the life and death of Jesus Christ.... then I'm going to talk about it. Cars are a part of many of our lives, and we talk about cars, right? Christ is the center of my life, so of course it comes out in some of my posts. Along with that, the "label" of Christianity is there because there is a group of like-minded and similarly-believing individuals... so it gets a group. Instead of saying I'm a Christian, I could go out and tell you my entire believe system every single time religion is brought up. But that would be even more annoying, wouldn't it?

To put this a little bit clearer, if a man comes up to me and does charity and never cheats on his wife and never lies to his children... but isn't a Christian... I truly believe they are not going to see Heaven, and that concerns me. I want everyone to find Heaven, so I'm going to talk about it. People can write me off as a raving lunatic if they want, and that's okay, but I don't want anyone trying to shut out the biggest thing in my life.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: .... To put this a little bit clearer, if a man comes up to me and does charity and never cheats on his wife and never lies to his children... but isn't a Christian... I truly believe they are not going to see Heaven, and that concerns me. I want everyone to find Heaven.....

But not everyone wants heaven, not everyone wants to be forgiven, and not everyone want's religion pushed in their face (even Satanism).

I can stick up for some to a point. My brother-in-law is a weak person, a lifelong drug addict that at one point was willing to trade his wife for meth. Now he is addicted to Jesus, IMHO he's just traded one false reality for another, but I would rather have sober, preachy Jesse other than stoned, lost Jesse.

In some cases people have to believe in something. That's fine with me, most even have to recruit others to their cause, because as Humans we have a desire to have people interested in the same things we are. We feel better when surrounded by people who think the same way we do, that's natural.

What's not natural is to believe that every single word in the Bible is holy, and exactly what God wants us to read since it's been edited, and changed to fit times since it was first written. It has been proven that even as recently as the mid evil times the Bible had entire books removed, destroyed, and edited to fit what was needed to happen.

I thought we were raised to question, and use common sense, but for some reason when it comes to religion "followers" tend to buy into anything a preacher says without even blinking.

As for me, I don't need preached at, I had that from birth until I moved out as a teen, I fully expect to go to Hell when I die, and I will accept that when it comes. It's my choice, and if you actually believe the Bible as you guys all claim then you will respect that, and allow me, and others on here that have asked the same thing a little breathing space.

You have all tried like good little Christians to convert the "sinners", and I give each of you an "attaboy". Feel free to throw eggs at the rival churches in your towns, I give you permission.

I still Love you all,
Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: But not everyone wants heaven, not everyone wants to be forgiven, and not everyone want's religion pushed in their face (even Satanism). I can stick up for some to a point. My brother-in-law is a weak person, a lifelong drug addict that at one point was willing to trade his wife for meth. Now he is addicted to Jesus, IMHO he's just traded one false reality for another, but I would rather have sober, preachy Jesse other than stoned, lost Jesse. In some cases people have to believe in something. That's fine with me, most even have to recruit others to their cause, because as Humans we have a desire to have people interested in the same things we are. We feel better when surrounded by people who think the same way we do, that's natural. What's not natural is to believe that every single word in the Bible is holy, and exactly what God wants us to read since it's been edited, and changed to fit times since it was first written. It has been proven that even as recently as the mid evil times the Bible had entire books removed, destroyed, and edited to fit what was needed to happen. I thought we were raised to question, and use common sense, but for some reason when it comes to religion "followers" tend to buy into anything a preacher says without even blinking. As for me, I don't need preached at, I had that from birth until I moved out as a teen, I fully expect to go to Hell when I die, and I will accept that when it comes. It's my choice, and if you actually believe the Bible as you guys all claim then you will respect that, and allow me, and others on here that have asked the same thing a little breathing space. You have all tried like good little Christians to convert the "sinners", and I give each of you an "attaboy". Feel free to throw eggs at the rival churches in your towns, I give you permission. I still Love you all, Brad

The reason I personally keep posting, is actually not to convert anyone. I feel that the non-believers are misunderstanding what we are about, and I just want you to understand where we are coming from. For instance, the hypocrisy thing. I can't let anyone think that Christianity is about "doing good" and never messing up. That's not what it is about, and if you think that you will OF COURSE think we are all hypocrites. That's why I wanted to clear that up.

I actually don't believe what each preacher says to the dot. There have been churches that I've gone to where I've even raised my hand and brought up Bible verses that contradicted their teachings... because I go by the Bible. And about it being changed... well, that's a good point. I trust that God has the current Bible exactly how He wants it, but it's important to study the original writing and even some of the other books that didn't get in to the Bible. I only accept the "official" Bible as 100% absolute Truth, but I'm not closed minded to other readings. (Haha... and on that subject... I'm embarrassed to admit that I never picked up the book you told me to read. I honestly completely forgot)

You wouldn't choose Hell if you really knew what it was all about... but in your eyes neither do I, and I get that. I actually can practice enough empathy to understand where all of you are coming from... which makes talking about Christ that much harder because I realize how you all think, and how my posts are being read. But I do believe it's important.

I love you too Brad
<3

Brennan

I got to agree with twofatguys, Brian the OP is simply stating his beliefs. He is allowed to do that, we are in America. The home of religious freedom. Those who think because you believe in, place the name of your preferred religion here. Think you have the golden ticket, well you don’t. You have been conned. By the biggest con of all time. You are scared of the fact that when you die it is all over and want to believe that it isn’t and you will live forever.

Now I don’t care if you need that crutch, use it, many do. But as far as I am concerned all you are doing is being sheep and supporting a bunch of con artistes who have been around since the beginning of time who feed on your fear of dieing.

They live in ivory castles paid for by your fear of dieing thinking if you give them money you will go to someplace wonderful after you die. You won’t, you will become worm food. Be gone and if you are real lucky be remembered by some for some of the people you were good to. If you were real good you will be remembered by many. And if you were great you will be remembered in history books.

Other than that you ain’t going anywhere.

There is a saying the only sure things in life are death and taxes. It is the only true thing as well.

But I don’t put a man or woman down because they believe in god, Mohammad, Buda, Satan or any other religious deity. And none of you should or as your own preferred religion says you will go to hell. And if there is a heaven and a hell then I was wrong and I will admit that then, when I die.

Until then I have a RIGHT to believe what I want. And so does Brian, if he wants to inform You of what he believes and inform some of you of how that works fine. Don’t try to change him, it is his RIGHT. If you don’t want to read or believe what he is saying, move on and don’t read this thread.

Just my thoughts.

Steve



------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-04-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Now I don’t care if you need that crutch, use it, many do. But as far as I am concerned all you are doing is being sheep and supporting a bunch of con artistes who have been around since the beginning of time who feed on your fear of dieing. But I don’t put a man or woman down because they believe in god, Mohammad, Buda, Satan or any other religious deity. And none of you should or as your own preferred religion says you will go to hell. And if there is a heaven and a hell then I was wrong and I will admit that then, when I die.

And as far as I'm concerned, you're "blind to the light"! But I understand where you are coming from, and it makes sense.

I have never put anyone down for believing in anything they did. Never will, either. If you can find somewhere that doesn't align with that, direct me to it. Sometimes I don't understand how you COULDN'T believe... but that's just me noticing all these wonders of the world and putting a label to their existence.

Try looking at all the hate in the world and all the murders in the name of god and maybe, just maybe you will rethink that.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Your supposed beliefs do not match your sig line. Which is it? You say you neither believe in God or Satan. Now look at how you sign off on every message:

quote Why we call ourselves "Satanists" when there is no such thing as a devil or god in our opinion. vs. "The Devil and his angels work together like a military system. I dealt with one of his generals. The only humans he has interest in are the ones getting close to God. The rest of the world is ****ed and he knows he already owns their asses. If you want an encounter with the supernatural realm, try to know God. You'll get Satan's attention. Trust me."

So which is it? Do you believe in Satan or not? You say in the beef of your message it might as well be called humanism because of your belief in the supposed non-existance of God AND the Devil, but then you follow up your message talking about Satan as an actual entity in biblical respect.

I mean, you can believe what you want, but AT LEAST try to stay consistant in the course of one post.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 12-04-2010).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Think you have the golden ticket, well you don’t.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: You have been conned. By the biggest con of all time. You are scared of the fact that when you die it is all over and want to believe that it isn’t and you will live forever.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Now I don’t care if you need that crutch, use it, many do. But as far as I am concerned all you are doing is being sheep and supporting a bunch of con artistes who have been around since the beginning of time who feed on your fear of dieing.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: But I don’t put a man or woman down because they believe in god, Mohammad, Buda, Satan or any other religious deity.

Ok, then what did you just finish saying when you called people who believe differently than you sheep, conned, needing a crutch, etc.?

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Try looking at all the hate in the world and all the murders in the name of god and maybe, just maybe you will rethink that. Steve

Can we look to all the murders commited in the name of no God also?

quote Originally posted by Khw: Can we look to all the murders commited in the name of no God also?

After that is all said and done, look at all the murders made in the name of FSM (MYBTBHNA), and I believe you will see what the one and only true religion of peace is.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: But not everyone wants heaven, not everyone wants to be forgiven, and not everyone want's religion pushed in their face (even Satanism). I can stick up for some to a point. My brother-in-law is a weak person, a lifelong drug addict that at one point was willing to trade his wife for meth. Now he is addicted to Jesus, IMHO he's just traded one false reality for another, but I would rather have sober, preachy Jesse other than stoned, lost Jesse. In some cases people have to believe in something. That's fine with me, most even have to recruit others to their cause, because as Humans we have a desire to have people interested in the same things we are. We feel better when surrounded by people who think the same way we do, that's natural. What's not natural is to believe that every single word in the Bible is holy, and exactly what God wants us to read since it's been edited, and changed to fit times since it was first written. It has been proven that even as recently as the mid evil times the Bible had entire books removed, destroyed, and edited to fit what was needed to happen. I thought we were raised to question, and use common sense, but for some reason when it comes to religion "followers" tend to buy into anything a preacher says without even blinking. As for me, I don't need preached at, I had that from birth until I moved out as a teen, I fully expect to go to Hell when I die, and I will accept that when it comes. It's my choice, and if you actually believe the Bible as you guys all claim then you will respect that, and allow me, and others on here that have asked the same thing a little breathing space. You have all tried like good little Christians to convert the "sinners", and I give each of you an "attaboy". Feel free to throw eggs at the rival churches in your towns, I give you permission. I still Love you all, Brad

I usually stay away from these threads but at the risk of alienating people I like I would just like the say a few things. I don't want to convert anyone, that's not my place. I would like to tell you how my relationship with Jesus has changed my life. I used to think like you Brad. I didn't need God or religion. I went though some traumatic crap about 24 years ago and I lost all hope to the point of trying to commit suicide. Thankfully I couldn't even succeed at that. Through that incident I was introduced to someone who understood what I was going through and he gave me the book by Max Lucado called, 'No Wonder They Call Him The Savior'. Through that book I decided to give my will and life to Christ. It probably sounds like a huge crutch but that's okay with me. Even though my circumstances didn't get any better, I now had hope for a better future, persistence to get through the present with a joy in my heart that made the burdens of life feel light. Now I now that may sound hokey, but today even in trials of life I have a peace I would have never known living life by my own power. I have such joy in my heart, sometimes I feel as if I'll burst! I'm not saying life is always easy either.
Like I said earlier, It's not my place to convert, recruit or 'save' anyone. I don't care what anyones beliefs are, what Bible or other book they live by. I'm called to show compassion for others, whomever they are, by being 'the hands and feet' of God. Christians have nobody else to blame for their reputation in the world by the way they've acted over history, but remember, they weren't representing God's true heart. I'm called to be a servant doing things for others, not what can I get out of it. You do have to realize though that the reason I tell others about Jesus is because he's not just my Savior, he's my friend. And just like when you have a great friend and you want to introduce them to all your other friends, that's how I feel about Jesus.

Oh and thanks for permission...I think I'll go get a dozen eggs! lol

Doug

There are very good people out there who are religious. Belonging is what we all want and a church and/or religion brings people together who otherwise wouldn't. We all struggle with contradictions and the cruelty of life. We all have a mistrust of others yet we all want to trust each other. Religion tries to make sense of it all and tries to help us strive to be better side of life. And that I think is positive.

Gospels, Pedagogy Logic, Prophecies or any other form of the Word has been used by ministers, teachers, philosophers, seerers, prophets since we began language. Christians often times say the Bible was written by God, but I find it hard to believe that one must be able to read in order to understand God, as many people could not read or understand the language of the Bible. Even the synoptic gospels of the New Testament have different versions of Jesus's life that are quite contradictory. The reason why the Canonization of them is that they were considered the oldest versions as say the Gospel of Thomas, Mary or James, which didn't make it in the Bible but were often used to preach Christianity in the early years.

Although Emperor Constantine canonized the modern version of the bible, he wasn't exactly Christian himself. He made a facade of it to gain Christian support, but he was a Pagan and worshiped the Sun God Apollo. The coins used in currency and issued by Constantine all had Apollo on it. At the time, the Roman empire was split into two Ceasers, one for the West, Maxentius and the East, Constantine. They battled each other over a civil war to have the Roman Empire under one Emperor, and Constantine used the ever growing population of Christians to side with him in the civil war and to fight for him and he did this by catering to and pretending to be Christian.

After Constantine won, he gathered all the top leaders of the Christian faith and asked them to form a single unified Bible so that all the Christian sects could be unified and those who didn't comply were to be persecuted and killed. He wanted the Christians to be unified as so he could control and monitor the religion and its followers to keep them from being a threat to his rule.

To me? That's hardly the word of God, that people were literally killed, exploited and controlled for the purpose of it.

The individual gospels on the other hand... To me? The Bible is neither right or wrong, it was written with faith and love and that is all that matters to those who read them and take something from it. Too bad that evil people used it for other purposes all the way till today, but that is the way it is most of the time.

God & Christian teaching says not to molest children !!

I could write pages on this, but then someone would point out where I contradict myself. That's okay, my beliefs are not set in stone.

I have theories. Theories are good because they can be proven or disproven. One of them is that God and Satan are the same being. "God created man in his own image". Does that mean that man only looks like God? I think that means not only in appearance, but in personality as well. God has shown anger, and vengeance as well as benevolence, just as people do. If we are created in His image then wouldn't it stand to reason that there is a little bit of Him in each of us? Perhaps what LaVey is saying is really to look to yourself for strength and courage rather than wishing (praying) for an external force to help.

quote I don't think that God is inexplicable without Satan, or that God needs Satan around in order to be understood. Or that there is any confusion about who is "in charge". Which creates? Which corrupts?

How do you define good without bad, or right without wrong? Isn't God the original corrupter by tempting Adam and Eve with the apple tree?


What I really want to believe in is something like the Force. "It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." There is so much we still don't know about life and the world we live in.

[This message has been edited by Tuna Helper (edited 12-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Tuna Helper: What I really want to believe in is something like the Force. "It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." There is so much we still don't know about life and the world we live in.

http://www.jedichurch.org/