quote Originally posted by maryjane: Or even simpler--explain that you do not have--have never had--or recieved--or asked for a copy of Win7 that you didn't pay Microsoft for?

I cannot do that.

But that is a whole new question, now isn't it?
Actually, that's FOUR new questions.
And has nothing to do with the original accusation.

I have never used Windows 7, pirated or otherwise.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2010).]

Did you recieve Win7 from someone for free?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Did you recieve Win7 from someone for free?

You mean like a copy that my Mother bought me from BestBuy for Christmas?
See what I mean?
Free don't mean stolen.

The question should be, "Did you recieve an illegal copy of Windows 7 from someone?"

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2010).]

Fred Astair would be proud.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Fred Astair would be proud.

Oooo, I'm sorry, but that's all the time we have.
Tell them what they won, Johnny.........................
*Fade to black.

Using pirated software is like raping an expensive call-girl in her sleep. You can't afford it, but you want it, so you take it. And you justify yourself by saying she's not loosing any income since she wouldn't be servicing other men in her sleep anyway, neither is she loosing income to you since you would not have been able to afford her. And if you are really quiet about it, you won't wake her up so she doesn't notice anything herself either. So no harm done, right? Problem is, it's still rape and if you wouldn't spent so much money buying drinks for every sleezy girl you meet in bars, you would be able to afford her.

That said, I don't pretend to be holier than thou. I too use some pirated software but I don't pretend it's not stealing. I'm fully aware that what I'm doing is wrong and illegal. And I always try to pay for the software if I can. So, no, I'm not running on a pirated OS. Yes, every single game I play has been paid for. Yes, even my copy of PhotoShop is legit. No, I don't download movies. Yes, this does mean I'm missing out on some great programs/games/movies. But such is life. You do what you can afford.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Conn, It's no secret you and I are diametrically opposed politically but this response from you not only shocks but disappoints me. Really. I thought better of you. I still do. I'll chalk this up to a temporary lapse of your normally good ethical judgment. John Stricker

Seriously, this is way less of an issue than you are making it out to be. It's just a project to get a cheap computer to run the MAC OS. Nobody willing to do this has decided they won't buy that new Imac for $1400 because they have a cheap beta PC/MAC. They aren't even in the same ballpark.

[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 01-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: And if you are really quiet about it, you won't wake her up so she doesn't notice anything herself either.

O.o no wonder why your getting callgirls if she doesnt feel it

sorry, cheap shot :P


i use some pirated programs, usually to see if its worth spending the $ on in the first place... did i download photo shop? yes, do i use it? no, i perfer gimp, did i download microsoft office? yes, do i use it? no, open office ftw. (I REALLY REALLY HATE THE NEW OFFICE LAYOUT!!!!)

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Seriously, this is way less of an issue than you are making it out to be. It's just a project to get a cheap computer to run the MAC OS. Nobody willing to do this has decided they won't buy that new Imac for $1400 because they have a cheap beta PC/MAC. They aren't even in the same ballpark.

Yeah--as Clyde Barrow reportedly said, "Ya can't get much cheaper than free."

Listen I know it's still not necessarily right. But it sort of misses the mark to go complaining about innovators and tinkerers.

quote Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: Listen I know it's still not necessarily right. But it sort of misses the mark to go complaining about innovators and tinkerers.

I'm not much on computer builds anymore, but my take is, that it would have been a great build thread without the questionable part regarding the OS. The last 3 pages are about trying to defend the indefensible.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: That said, I don't pretend to be holier than thou. I too use some pirated software but I don't pretend it's not stealing. I'm fully aware that what I'm doing is wrong and illegal.

I indeed have said that very thing.
I wonder if people will be as free with their opinion & judgement of that with you, as they have been with me...................and as personal.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I indeed have said that very thing. I wonder if people will be as free with their opinion & judgement of that with you, as they have been with me...................

Is that all you got out of his post?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Is that all you got out of his post?

Did I say that?

His whole post is:

1. Pirated software is stealng.
2. He has some pirated software.
3. He knows it is wrong & illegal.

I have said that very thing.

My question still remains: Will he be chastised in the same manner as a few posters here have been by some in this thread?

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2010).]

Probably--IF he were to start a thread asking for someone to send him a FREE copy of the most recently released Windows OS and then turns around and posts an otherwise fine build thread except that it basically advocates using a pirated OS. The best the text said was "buy Leopard and "pretend" you're installing that". And then dances around questions with replies such as "my mother bought it at Bestbuy"
Did she?

Operating Systems are not that expensive--why not just purchase the damn thing legally and avoid all this crap? I really really don't get it.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Probably--IF he were to start a thread asking for someone to send him a FREE copy of the most recently released Windows OS and then turns around and posts an otherwise fine build thread except that it basically advocates using a pirated OS. The best the text said was "buy Leopard and "pretend" you're installing that". And then dances around questions with replies such as "my mother bought it at Bestbuy" Did she? Operating Systems are not that expensive--why not just purchase the damn thing legally and avoid all this crap? I really really don't get it.

$200 isnt that expensive? guess thats a matter of opinion.

I read most of the comments here and I think Boonie is being wrongfully targeted. I liked his original idea of a DIY Mac and I might get back into rolling my own but I think an OS such as Linux would better serve me than some clunky code-bloated POS such as Win-Anything. He and I are on opposite ends of the political spectrum but he has a Fiero and likes computers, is a good shot and rides a bike. We have more in common than one would believe.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Using pirated software is like raping an expensive call-girl in her sleep. You can't afford it, but you want it, so you take it. And you justify yourself by saying she's not loosing any income since she wouldn't be servicing other men in her sleep anyway, neither is she loosing income to you since you would not have been able to afford her. And if you are really quiet about it, you won't wake her up so she doesn't notice anything herself either. So no harm done, right? Problem is, it's still rape and if you wouldn't spent so much money buying drinks for every sleezy girl you meet in bars, you would be able to afford her. That said, I don't pretend to be holier than thou. I too use some pirated software but I don't pretend it's not stealing. I'm fully aware that what I'm doing is wrong and illegal. And I always try to pay for the software if I can. So, no, I'm not running on a pirated OS. Yes, every single game I play has been paid for. Yes, even my copy of PhotoShop is legit. No, I don't download movies. Yes, this does mean I'm missing out on some great programs/games/movies. But such is life. You do what you can afford.

This is probably the most interesting and thought provoking comment in this entire thread related to piracy.

Cliff, at first you compare it to raping an expensive call girl that you can't afford, then you freely admit you do it. Piracy that as, not raping call girls.

Based on your analogy, would you rape an expensive call girl if you had the opportunity? Of course not. That's what makes many of these analogies invalid.

You also mention that you "always try to pay for the software if you can." So does that mean that not being able to afford it is justification? Because if so, that brings up a whole host of other problems. "I can't afford it" could be justification to steal anything, including a piece of ass from the high priced call girl.

Once again, just playing devil's advocate.

Most of the pirated stuff I have is NOT because I couldn't afford it, I just thought that the value to the consumer was woefully low. I keep bringing that up, but no one seems to care about that. In a true free market, value to the consumer would be assured, but in many cases with the products you buy, you don't have adequate choices, and the sellers of these products KNOW that, and they eek out as much profit as they think they can get away with, which I honestly think is much more analogous to theft than raping a call girl is.

I'd still really love to hear people's thoughts on my auto parts store scenario I posted quite a few posts back.

quote Originally posted by SGS: Most of the pirated stuff I have is NOT because I couldn't afford it, I just thought that the value to the consumer was woefully low. I keep bringing that up, but no one seems to care about that. In a true free market, value to the consumer would be assured, but in many cases with the products you buy, you don't have adequate choices,

I a true free market value to the cosumer is assured by NOT BUYING THEIR PRODUCT. That is NOT the same as saying it's ok to steal their product.
If I want to sell you a piece of bubble gum for $1,000 you are free to not buy it. That doesn't mean it's ok for you to steal it.

No one cares about your consumer value argument because it's a faulty argument used to justify stealing.

If you want an OS for free, use Linux.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: No, it is not theft. It does not give you the moral permission to steal from them either.

If it's not theft, then what is it?

Unfair trade practices. Walmart does it all the time.

You have the option to let it happen or not by continuing to patronize mom and pop over the price cutters, but it's not theft because you still have the option to buy or not buy from whoever you want.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by SGS: If it's not theft, then what is it?

quote Originally posted by SGS: If it's not theft, then what is it?

How in your mind can you think your scenario is theft, but you're ok with pirating software?

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Unfair trade practices. Walmart does it all the time. You have the option to let it happen or not by continuing to patronize mom and pop over the price cutters, but it's not theft because you still have the option to buy or not buy from whoever you want. John Stricker

No, apparently you weren't paying attention. In my example, you don't have a choice because the chain put the mom and pops out of business. You, as a customer, are now a captive market. You don't have an option. The only parts store at your disposal is the chain.

And what's unfair about that trade practice? Who is it unfair to and why? Technically, shoplifitng would be considered an "unfair trade practice". Unfair to the merchant, not the thief.

quote Originally posted by SGS: No, apparently you weren't paying attention. In my example, you don't have a choice because the chain put the mom and pops out of business. You, as a customer, are now a captive market. You don't have an option. The only parts store at your disposal is the chain. And what's unfair about that trade practice? Who is it unfair to and why? Technically, shoplifitng would be considered an "unfair trade practice". Unfair to the merchant, not the thief.

It's clear your personal moral view is whatever you want is ok.
If you have that attitude with many things in life, you're going to get a very rude and abrupt wakeup call one day.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Electric companies, at least in KS, are regulated by the kansas coporation commission. They have to have any rate increases approves specifically because they are a monopoly so your argument is invalid. In places where there is no such regulation, as I understand it, you can choose who you get your power from now just like you can choose who your telephone service (landline) is no matter who actually put in the wires.

Yes. Texas has no regulation, and because they went from the scenario you described (being regulated) to an unregulated market, on average, customer in Texas are paying MORE. Because it's not a free market. But you're not addressing my question.

quote So the free option sucks. Microsoft charges too much, so that makes stealing what you want OK?

Never said it was ok, but you keep implying that. I'm simply implying that having no choice but to pay a fortune for something with low quality isn't ok either....and many people agree with me, and the consumers have adjusted their practices accordingly.

Of course you do.

You had a choice before it went that far by realizing what the chain was doing and continuing to patronize mom and pop to help them stay open. You have a choice once their closed by shopping out of town or on the internet and not spending money with the chain. There is no such thing as "the only parts store at your disposal" unless they are the only parts store left in the US.

Regardless, you have a choice.

If you want definitions of unfair trade practices Google is your friend. Sometimes they are illegal, sometimes they aren't. Walmart has been sued for them but usually wins, occasionally settling out of court.

Shoplifting is not an unfair trade practice, it is a crime. It's also theft and it's wrong.

Finally, for you to make these analogies to try to justify your illegal behavior has me convinced you are most likely a morally bankrupt idiot, if you believe what you're typing.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by SGS: No, apparently you weren't paying attention. In my example, you don't have a choice because the chain put the mom and pops out of business. You, as a customer, are now a captive market. You don't have an option. The only parts store at your disposal is the chain. And what's unfair about that trade practice? Who is it unfair to and why? Technically, shoplifitng would be considered an "unfair trade practice". Unfair to the merchant, not the thief.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It's clear your personal moral view is whatever you want is ok. If you have that attitude with many things in life, you're going to get a very rude and abrupt wakeup call one day.

Well thanks dad, but don't you think you're jumping the gun by assessing my moral character based on this one issue? I think your comment speaks more about your moral character than it does about mine.

quote Originally posted by SGS: Well thanks dad, but don't you think you're jumping the gun by assessing my moral character based on this one issue? I think your comment speaks more about your moral character than it does about mine.

I'm sure you do. Anyone who can say shoplifting is an "unfair trade practice" probably sees fault with everyone but themself.

quote Originally posted by SGS: I have tried it. It sucks. There's a reason why it's got a very small share of the market.

If that isn't baiting i don't know what is..

It doesn't suck, it just didn't meet your needs. Its got a larger market then you realize, and is not larger mainly due to lack of organized commercial marketing.

Disclaimer: Personally I don't use Linux. I use FreeBSD and OSX.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Of course you do. You had a choice before it went that far by realizing what the chain was doing and continuing to patronize mom and pop to help them stay open. You have a choice once their closed by shopping out of town or on the internet and not spending money with the chain. There is no such thing as "the only parts store at your disposal" unless they are the only parts store left in the US. Regardless, you have a choice. If you want definitions of unfair trade practices Google is your friend. Sometimes they are illegal, sometimes they aren't. Walmart has been sued for them but usually wins, occasionally settling out of court. Shoplifting is not an unfair trade practice, it is a crime. It's also theft and it's wrong. Finally, for you to make these analogies to try to justify your illegal behavior has me convinced you are most likely a morally bankrupt idiot, if you believe what you're typing. John Stricker

Wow, now we have resorted to name calling. John, I'm sorry that your the typical brainless American consumer that's willing to take it in the chute at the hands of people who are obviously more intelligent than you, and can freely bilk you out of your money while having you love them for it.

I have only been trying to illustrate that there is another side of the story that leads people to act as they do, but as you said early on, it's all black and white. Yep, no gray area.

I'm going jail, hell, etc., and Microsoft deserves my first born because I pirated their software....but they have done nothing wrong at all.

So I guess I'll give up on trying to illustrate my point, since no one seems to want to genuinely explore the other side of the coin. We've been discussing every possible facet of piracy being wrong, but at the mention of the fact that there's another side of the story, everyone pretty much denies it.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Probably--

Hmmmmm.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: IF he were to start a thread asking for someone to send him a FREE copy of the most recently released Windows OS

Since when is asking for a gift, stealing.
FREE don't mean STOLEN.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: and then turns around and posts an otherwise fine build thread except that it basically advocates using a pirated OS. The best the text said was "buy Leopard and "pretend" you're installing that".

Oh, I see.
It's not about the accusations or the game of "20 Questions" about me using a pirated copy of Windows 7, it's about the build thread I copy & pasted "basically advocating" using a pirated OS.
I missed that somehow, what with defending the accusation that I am using, was sent, or own a pirated copy of Windows 7, and all.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: And then dances around questions with replies such as "my mother bought it at Bestbuy" Did she?

You asked me if I ever recieved a FREE copy of Windows 7.
I replied with the mother comment to illistrate that FREE don't mean STOLEN.
And I made that example QUITE clear.
And you know that.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Operating Systems are not that expensive--why not just purchase the damn thing legally and avoid all this crap?

What crap?
Oh, you mean the crap that you have spread all over my thread, the same crap you seem to reserve for me, in what seems like every-single-thread?

So, you called me to task on my use of pirated software.
Not on the original topic of the thread.
On the use of pirated software, period.

But hey, the above was a very nice attempt to spin it in such a way as to alienate what I said from what Cliff said, so it would make it somehow more justified for you to vilify me, and let Cliff slide, allthough both our posts were aligned on this subject.
I wonder why that is?

Shouldn't Cliff be afforded the same courtesy you have shown me, since we both share the same addmission on the subject?

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I really really don't get it.

I don't either.
It is quite obvious that you have something against me, as I can't think of one time you have said anything positive to me.
Even if you have, how sad is that that you have said so many negitive things to me that that is all I remember?
I don't think you dislike me personally, I think you dislike my kind.

Some people here have asked me what you and another person here at PFF have against me, and I tell them I do not know.
This might be a good time for you to tell them your side, as I always wondered why they just didn't ask you anyway.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-12-2010).]

quote Originally posted by jstricker: *snip* Finally, for you to make these analogies to try to justify your illegal behavior has me convinced you are most likely a morally bankrupt idiot, if you believe what you're typing. John Stricker

I think you are missing the point.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: If that isn't baiting i don't know what is..[quote] No baiting...it's the truth. [quote]It doesn't suck, it just didn't meet your needs. Its got a larger market then you realize, and is not larger mainly due to lack of organized commercial marketing.

It's market share in the consumer, non-server market is dismal. And the reason is because the average person who operates a computer is an idiot, and would have serious problems even getting it installed. Ubuntu's installation frustrated me, and I've always built my own machines and done installs from the ground up. I got it working, but it wasn't as user friendly as it needs to be to be mainstream.

quote Originally posted by SGS: So I guess I'll give up on trying to illustrate my point,

You've illustrated your point very clearly. You're wrong. Explaining it a different way doesn't change that.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You've illustrated your point very clearly. You're wrong. Explaining it a different way doesn't change that.

No, there has been no discussion on my points. Just a bunch of people saying that I'm wrong. That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitle to it.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Did I say that? His whole post is: 1. Pirated software is stealng. 2. He has some pirated software. 3. He knows it is wrong & illegal. I have said that very thing. My question still remains: Will he be chastised in the same manner as a few posters here have been by some in this thread?

Did I say or infer that you did? I simply asked a question.
Your dancing skills are not getting any better.
I'll ask another.
Do stand by your "words" that your mom went to Best Buy and bought you Win 7 as a gift?