Originally posted by Phranc: bill you misspelled "mispelled". You misspell most of your words and half the time they aren't even the right words. Remember "waif". What is a waif bill? It has nothing to do with age bill you're just an idiot.
Once again Phranc.. take your hate elsewhere. I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD TO RATE ACCORDINGLY
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07:31 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27103 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by Pyrthian: when was this? if I remember them days - it was you had to save your money to have have a pretty hefty down payment before you would even be considered for a loan.
My folks did it, both sets of GP's did it and so did the majority of my aunts an uncles. Most had their houses purchased in the 60's with the acception of two uncles who moved to much larger Newly constructed houses.. but his "townhome" sold for a "tidey sum".. sometime around 74ish 75.. It was definatly pre 1976.. which today wouldnt harld qualify as a downstroke on a used Yugo...... minor exaggeration.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-08-2007).]
I just toddled over to the old man and asked him to elaborate on his American dream.
He bought a 3 br 1 1/2 bath house for 11,900 in 1965, the interest was 4.5%, he also had a brand new 1965 Pontiac GTO in Sept of 64 which cost him 3900.. the average cost at the time was 1/2 that. The mumflies on the house was 98 bux, the car was 120 and the insurance and taxes on the house was hardly worth mentioning total combined was 600 a year and 450 of that was taxes. He was making 2.50 an hr, paid no income taxes, 10 bucks would easily by several bags of groceries.
Mom.. was a home maker. This was common in our family. Everyone owned their home and everyone had new cars. Back then the gold standard kep inflation in check... mid 70's that was going to change, everything skyrocketed in price.
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08:29 PM
Aug 9th, 2007
fierobear Member
Posts: 27103 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I just toddled over to the old man and asked him to elaborate on his American dream.
He bought a 3 br 1 1/2 bath house for 11,900 in 1965, the interest was 4.5%, he also had a brand new 1965 Pontiac GTO in Sept of 64 which cost him 3900.. the average cost at the time was 1/2 that. The mumflies on the house was 98 bux, the car was 120 and the insurance and taxes on the house was hardly worth mentioning total combined was 600 a year and 450 of that was taxes. He was making 2.50 an hr, paid no income taxes, 10 bucks would easily by several bags of groceries.
Mom.. was a home maker. This was common in our family. Everyone owned their home and everyone had new cars. Back then the gold standard kep inflation in check... mid 70's that was going to change, everything skyrocketed in price.
What does all that come to, in inflation-adjusted dollars? How much did he get paid per hour? Year?
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12:09 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
1965 2006 =================== $11,900 $74,750 3,900 24,500 5,200 32,665 $2.50/hr - assuming 40 hour weeks, = $5,200 per year
So, that would mean someone making roughly $33k a year should be able to afford a $75k house and a $24k car. Possible, although that 3 bedroom 1.5 bath house is going to cost substantially more than $75k today. The new GTO would cost about $33k. So prices have definitely gone up faster than income.
Bill, how much would your dad's house sell for today?
Housing and autos are way up over anything on an inflation scale, also INS costs I would think too. A GTO was not a bottom of the line car either. Everybody in my neighborhood had a stay at home mom back then, into the 70's too.
Originally posted by Formula88: Bill, how much would your dad's house sell for today?
The GTO was fully loaded, 396, sixpack 348 hp, posi, slushbox, seatbelts, all the toys. The house he bought for 12k in 65 sold for 59,9 in 95 and they bought another for 69k 9.1 % interest that same year that is now worth just shy of 220. he refied last year and got a much lower interest rate.
Somone making 74k is payin quite a bit in income taxes.. The insurance went up on the house this year... the jump 611 dollars, from 1300 to 1900.
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08:29 AM
PFF
System Bot
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
maybe something for another thread - especially for the economics guy: why is there inflation? I am under the impression it is a system in place to keep people from hoarding money. or is it a system in place which justifies charging interest?
I can see no actual or natural reason for inflation. it certainly is not a "dwindling" supply thing.
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08:55 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
You guys need to keep something about inflation in mind. It varies with each micro-economy. Take for example the California Bay Area. In 1965 this was strictly an agricultural economy. Cherry trees, plums, etc. In the late 60's and early 70's the economy changed to a technology center and the farms disappeared over time. Comparing the current economy of the Bay Area to the 1965 Economy on inflation alone would be madness. Houses are 50 times more expensive now but the economy here is totally different. And the fact of the matter is that the economy of the US has changed on a national level as well. Take this into account.
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12:43 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
By TIM PARADIS  (AP) Specialist Jason Blatt looks at his screen as he works at his post on the floor of the New York... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} NEW YORK (AP) - Wall Street's deepening fears about a spreading credit crunch sent stocks plunging again Thursday, with the Dow Jones industrials extending their series of triple-digit swings and falling more than 380 points. The catalyst for the market's latest skid: a French bank's announcement that it was freezing three funds that invested in U.S. subprime mortgages. The announcement by BNP Paribas raised the specter of a widening impact of U.S. credit market problems. The idea that anyone - institutions, investors, companies, individuals - can't get money when they need it unnerved a stock market that has suffered through weeks of volatility triggered by concerns about tight credit and bad subprime mortgages. A move by the European Central Bank to provide more cash to money markets intensified Wall Street's angst. Although the bank's loan of more than $130 billion in overnight funds to banks at a low rate of 4 percent was intended to calm investors, Wall Street saw it as confirmation of the credit markets' problems. It was the ECB's biggest injection ever. The Federal Reserve added a larger-than-normal $24 billion in temporary reserves to the U.S. banking system.
As far as California’s economy goes, you guys have been riding the crest of a wave for so long that sooner or later it is going to dump you right into the trough.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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06:04 PM
kwagner Member
Posts: 4258 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
France had runs on their banks today... Everything is fine fine fine....
SELL SELL!!!
PARIS, Aug. 9 — The French bank BNP Paribas suspended operations of three of its funds and the European Central Bank injected cash into the financial system, both in the wake of turmoil in the United States mortgage market.
Skip to next paragraph Related Stocks Tumble as Home Loan Worries Spread (August 9, 2007) The European Central Bank lent 94.8 billion euros, or $130.1 billion, to meet banks’ needs after demand for cash in the European money markets drove interest rates higher. The central bank, taking such emergency action for the first time since just after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, said it would provide unlimited amounts at 4 percent, its current benchmark rate.
The actions initiated a sell-off in European markets that spilled over into the United States.
BNP is the latest European lender to announce problems linked to the worsening credit market in the United States, where several major companies have already announced losses.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-09-2007).]
Cisco System (csco) is down a couple of bucks, but up from $13 bucks when I got in, hehe. With Bush and Europe on the tube...Hold on ladies, its going to be a bumpy ride.
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07:42 PM
Aug 10th, 2007
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
By TIM PARADIS  (AP) Trader Ryan Falvey works on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Thursday afternoon, Aug. 9,... Full Image
p {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;} NEW YORK (AP) - U.S. stocks moved toward another opening plunge Friday after Thursday's huge sell-off and as bank regulators including the Federal Reserve injected cash into money markets, stoking concerns of a more pronounced liquidity crunch. In Asia, which had largely missed the worldwide pullback Thursday, stocks skidded after regulators including the Bank of Japan added liquidity. The European Central Bank for the second day added currency.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: Just keep telling yourself that, you will believe it. Right up until the economy goes right down the tubes, and it will eventually.
We have way to much credit dept in this country and it is all eventually going to come crashing down.
much truth here. there are way to many people who have sold their future thru credit cards. and, the things they bought on credit become junk thru time, and they are still paying for them. there is a whole flock of fools made every year. just turned 18, get credit apps, and suddenly can buy $2000 rims, $1000 stereo, put it in a $2000 car. so, $5000 in debt right off the bat - min wage job. the car will be junk in under 2 years, but will be a debt burden for much more. and, then there is the young adults, thinking they can live like everyone else - thru credit. we'll have more money later. NOT. especially when you start putting holes in all your future paychecks. maybe they should call them "crack cards" instead of "credit cards". because they be deadly addictive.
3-7 years go by. stupid pile of credit card debt. then the silly person will go for bill consildation. "I'll have lower monthly payments" YAY. but, guess what? you can walk away from credit card debt. you can just stop paying. what they gonna do? NOTHING. but, with a loan - you are putting your home on the line.
I've seen this way to many time, and have started getting stuck in it myself.
something to remember: if you cant afford it now - dont buy it. buying on credit insures you will NEVER be able to afford it.
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08:54 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Ya the stock market is just fine. Ya the economy is just fine.
World Stocks Plunge on Credit Fears 
Friday August 10, 1:06 PM EDT
LONDON (AP) — Stock markets plunged worldwide Friday as turmoil from the U.S. mortgage crisis rippled across the globe. Stock markets in Europe tumbled, unappeased by the European Central Bank's decision to inject another 61 billion euros ($83.9 billion) into the banking system Friday, a day after it provided nearly 95 billion euros ($130.8 billion), the bank's biggest infusion ever. London's FTSE 100 dropped 3.7 percent to 6,038.30, the CAC-40 in Paris fell 3.1 percent to 5,448.63 and Germany's DAX index was down 1.5 percent to 7,343.26. In Asia, the Nikkei 225 index dropped 2.4 percent to close at 16,764.09 points on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. The broader Topix index of all shares on the exchange's first section sank 3 percent.
Matt Buckland at CMC Markets said losses on Wall Street, along with a lack of economic or corporate data due for release during the session, would push markets lower. The recent market volatility has wiped more than 500 points off London's benchmark index over the last month. "Critically, many are now going to be looking for that big 6,000 level on the London index," he said. Wall Street oscillated Friday after the Federal Reserve said it would do all it can to "facilitate the orderly functioning of financial markets" and twice injected liquidity into the banking system. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 387.18, or 2.83 percent, Thursday after BNP Paribas in France said it was freezing funds that invested in U.S. subprime mortgages. It fell an additional 212 points Friday before clawing back some ground. The Dow was down 73.08 to 13197.60 in afternoon trading Friday.
Ya the stock market is just fine. Ya the economy is just fine.
Uh boy. I guess I shouldn't have to point to the hypocricy of the fact that the only people being hurt here are the RICH foreign investors (you know, the ones you hate) who bought the sub prime loans.
But moreover, I already explained, if you weren't paying attention the first time, that the manufacturing sector will make-up for the shortfall in the wounds suffered in the subprime market. ALL economic indicators are still in the black, GDP, Employment, low interest rates, etc.
In fact, the ECB has just guarnateed unlimited 4% loans to member banks. The banks aren't going to collapse. To quote Ross Perot, "I have 3 Billion dollars in the bank...I'll be fine"
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-10-2007).]
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07:29 PM
Uaana Member
Posts: 6570 From: Robbinsdale MN US Registered: Dec 1999
NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street closed out a difficult week with a mixed finish Friday after the Federal Reserve injected billions of dollars into the banking system to calm markets torn by worries about evaporating credit. The Dow Jones industrials, down more than 200 points during the session, ended with just a 31-point deficit and managed to post a gain for the week.
guess we should start jumping out of windows. Sorry if you don't know how to invest then stay out. but if you're going to play or even have a 401k.. then position yourself to ride out any fluctiations. Even with the bumps and such I'm still on track for 12% for my 401k Need to pay attention to it as I have no faith in Social Security.. talk about pissing money away.. might as well dump money on a stripper.. least then I'd get something for my investment.
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07:42 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by Toddster: But moreover, I already explained, if you weren't paying attention the first time, that the manufacturing sector will make-up for the shortfall in the wounds suffered in the subprime market. ALL economic indicators are still in the black, GDP, Employment, low interest rates, etc.
In fact, the Fed has just guarnateed unlimited 4% loans to member banks. The banks aren't going to collapse. To quote Ross Perot, "I have 3 Billion dollars in the bank...I'll be fine"
What manufacturing sector are you talking about exactly?
We no longer have one, everything is built someplace else.
Thanks to those who insist on buying Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, and every other car made overseas, or made here and then all the profits sent back to their home country.
Keep telling yourself we are in fine shape, buy that BMW, Sony TV, and al the other crap.
Don’t forget to buy your kids those Chinese made toxic toys.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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07:48 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Ben Stein says the economy is doing fine. Honestly, I probably trust his judgment on the condition of the economy more than just about anyone else in the news.
"The U.S. mortgage market is immensely large, spectacularly large. Total foreclosures are a large amount in dollar terms, but a tiny amount in percentage terms. Foreclosures are now about 1 percent of loans. The lenders will sell the houses and recover at least fifty per cent of the value. That means the total loss may be about ½ of one percent of the mortgages made and probably less, and a lot of it is insured. This is an absolutely trivial number in the context of a $14 trillion economy with net wealth in the realm of $60 trillion." ... "The most cagey players on Wall Street like Goldman Sachs are now trying to buy — not sell — as much distressed merchandise in the mortgage area as they can. This is a good clue about where the smart money is going."
Originally posted by Toddster: HaHa! Sage advice from the economics expert who learned everything he knows about the economy from the Daily Kos. Thanks, I will.
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123: Keep telling yourself we are in fine shape, buy that BMW, Sony TV, and al the other crap.
Don’t forget to buy your kids those Chinese made toxic toys.
Was the complete quote todd. Now don’t forget to buy those toxic toys for your kids, and the good dog food for your dog.
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't. Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
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10:56 PM
Aug 11th, 2007
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
It’s going to hit hard, and already is in California. They have the highest percentage of loans at high risk.
Option-ARMs accounted for nearly 22 percent of the mortgages made in California during 2006, according to LoanPerformance. Other hot spots included: Nevada (15 percent), Hawaii (13.3 percent), Florida (12.2 percent), Washington (10.9 percent) and Arizona (10.6 percent). If many of those loans go bad, major option-ARM lenders will likely be forced to erase some of the profits that they have already booked from the exotic mortgages. Under an accrual accounting method allowed by regulators, option-ARM lenders routinely record the uncollected interest as income even though the money may never be paid.
Ben Stein says the economy is doing fine. Honestly, I probably trust his judgment on the condition of the economy more than just about anyone else in the news.
"The U.S. mortgage market is immensely large, spectacularly large. Total foreclosures are a large amount in dollar terms, but a tiny amount in percentage terms. Foreclosures are now about 1 percent of loans. The lenders will sell the houses and recover at least fifty per cent of the value. That means the total loss may be about ½ of one percent of the mortgages made and probably less, and a lot of it is insured. This is an absolutely trivial number in the context of a $14 trillion economy with net wealth in the realm of $60 trillion." ... "The most cagey players on Wall Street like Goldman Sachs are now trying to buy — not sell — as much distressed merchandise in the mortgage area as they can. This is a good clue about where the smart money is going."
EXACTLY! I like Ben too. I have been telling my cleints that THIS is the time to take advantage of the hysteria and BUY! There are great housing deals out there. I have an associate ho has a listing for $925,000 that they are willing to take less on. They paid $1,250,000 for the house 2 yeatrs ago when the house was first built. It is INSTANT wealth for the right buyer. This market will turn up again soon and someone is going to make a killing.
Ironically, its doomsayers like 84Fiero123 and others ignorant of the mechanics of markets that actually HELP make the rich richer. Because the rich don't panic and they know when to zig while others are zagging.
Originally posted by Toddster: EXACTLY! I like Ben too. I have been telling my cleints that THIS is the time to take advantage of the hysteria and BUY! There are great housing deals out there. I have an associate ho has a listing for $925,000 that they are willing to take less on. They paid $1,250,000 for the house 2 yeatrs ago when the house was first built. It is INSTANT wealth for the right buyer. This market will turn up again soon and someone is going to make a killing.
I like Henry David Thoreau but that doesnt mean that everything he said was true, I'm sure he had quite a few detractors then as well as now but I believe some of his statements were right on the money...
Anywho Last time I checked housing upsndowns seemed to run in roughly 20 year cycles.
quote
Ironically, its doomsayers like 84Fiero123 and others ignorant of the mechanics of markets that actually HELP make the rich richer. Because the rich don't panic and they know when to zig while others are zagging.
The rich can afford to not panic, they have money to burn lighting ciggars which is why the rich get richer while the poor get poorer
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-11-2007).]
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12:23 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Yeah, but don't ask him how the rich got rich in the first place. I don't think I could bear the tyraid of accussations of theft, luck, lottery winnings, and inheritance I'd have to endure.
Originally posted by Kloddster: Ah, of course, the rich didn't get rich by having cool heads.
This is not what I was discussing.
My statement was "The rich can afford to not panic, they have money to burn lighting ciggars which is why the rich get richer while the poor get poorer."
I'm not debating your statement that now is the time to buy, but IF you have the spare coin to do so. Ya cant loose when prices drop.. However if one can not afford to bust that montly nut then now is not the time to buy.. I mean like Duhh.. it's not rocket science.
The poor man cant afford to play even though the poor man has the honor of paying to play the game, and has a greater chance of loosing to the wealthy man who will snap up the poor mans losses.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 08-11-2007).]
I'm not debating your statement that now is the time to buy, but IF you have the spare coin to do so. Ya cant loose when prices drop.. However if one can not afford to bust that montly nut then now is not the time to buy.. I mean like Duhh.. it's not rocket science.
The poor man cant afford to play even though the poor man has the honor of paying to play the game, and has a greater chance of loosing to the wealthy man who will snap up the poor mans losses.
This is 100% wrong. Sorry Bill but when is that last time you paid cash for a house? The concept of OPM (Other People's Money) is how you get rich. If you have good credit, good knowledge, and a cool head you do not need to be Nelson Rockfeller to do well.
Originally posted by Toddster: This is 100% wrong. Sorry Bill but when is that last time you paid cash for a house?
Me personally? Nonya biz.
quote
The concept of OPM (Other People's Money) is how you get rich. If you have good credit, good knowledge, and a cool head you do not need to be Nelson Rockfeller to do well.
Right.. the poor man (in this case "OP") buys an overly priced POS house sold by a turd with a junk mortgage then when the poor man (again refered to as "OP") has to sell it at fire sale price because the poor man can no longer make that montly nut which means the wealthy man can buy much more effortlessly regardless of market conditions thus making the poor mans investemnt (or as you refer to as the "M") the it wealthy mans investment (again refered to as "M") when he sells it after the market turns.
The rich man can remain cool under the "harshest" of conditions because he can AFFORD TO. The wealth get wealthier. The poor man just gets left paying the bill.... and gets poorer.
