quote Originally posted by InTheLead: Food, especially dairy, is going sky high because they have to compete for the damn corn to feed the cattle. These idiots are making worthless ethanol plants that use unfathomable amounts of corn to produce fuel and have driven the price of many food products through the roof. Ontop of that the fuel absolutely useless and probably accounts for less than 1% of our nationwide need.

The hold corn has on our government has got to come to an end! Hell with the new world order or the illuminati it is the corn guys! heh. Heck, corn isn't really very good for you as food either, unless still in vegetable form it is really just filler mass and pretty much equal amounts come out as went in.

Seriously though, corn is one of the worst raw materials to make fuel from, unless you are just going to dry it and burn it in a pellet stove. The countries that are doing well at this are the ones using sugar cane or sugar beats.

quote Originally posted by aceman: Okay Cliff. Call me on that. I answered.

Be glad too Mr...what was it...ethical diversity training.
EDIT
Enter, to get a new line somehow equated Submit.
The woman simply offered an opinion. To include your hatred of Steve towards her was wrong.

quote Originally posted by aceman: I'm suppose to not remark when a woman makes a fuking STUPID COMMENT? I should respect the fact that they're women and that would be perfectly acceptable for them to make a completely STUPID, UNEDUCATED, UNTHOUGHT-OUT Comment?

You forgot in the above quote to call her a stupid fukin woman but, the implication is there in your original reply, . You do not know her, nor do I. She clearly identified herself as not being Steve. Was your responce justified or could you have done better ? To include your hatred of Steve towards her was wrong. By saying "two peas in a pod" or was it "birds of a feather flock together". Was she sticking up for her man ? Maybe but I don't think Steve asked her to. She did have a piont even if it was wrong in fact. It also main not have pertained to the meat of the thread's topic. Not the first time that has happened on PFF.
My, I would not think that they would allow someone who harbors hatred and displays predujicial tendencies to teach ethical diversity. Perhaps you do a good job. I am sure you could have done better if you believed in what you teach.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-07-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: ......it is really just filler mass and pretty much equal amounts come out as went in. Seriously though, corn is one of the worst raw materials to make fuel from, unless you are just going to dry it and burn it in a pellet stove. The countries that are doing well at this are the ones using sugar cane or sugar beats.

lol - yes - and there is a graphic example of this everytime you eat corn on the cob - in the next days brownload.....

while I agree it is not the most efficeint alternative fuel - at least it is one that is getting started. all the bickering about what way to go - this is better - that is better - doesnt much matter. none are any good if they dont get started. ethenol is an easy step. minor changes to existing systems. bio-diesel is cute - but completely lacking in volume potential. we just dont eat that many french fries.....I myself am a fan of electric & solar power.

quote Originally posted by aceman: Okay Cliff. Call me on that. I answered.

I answered back but it was interrupted with computer maladies, most likely me. It was interrupted but edited.

Cliff,
I don't teach "ethical diversity"???? And I don't teach or facilitate the Army's "Consideration of Others" program. I can't teach/facilitate something that I believe is complete BS.

I teach and facilitate Equal Opportunity. EO covers prejudice and equal treatment based on RACE, ETHNIC GROUPS, SEX, and RELIGION....NOT STUPIDITY!

I didn't call her a stupid B!tch. I didn't treat her any differently than if Steve or any other person on here made an INSANELY STUPID UNTHOUGHTOUT remark.

Equal Opportunity does not protect stupid people from being treated differently.

With the stupid comment his wife made, I merely stated how and why those two are married to each other. They're made for each other. A perfect match. I'm sure they're in a very happy marriage.

I didn't prejudge her. I made a statement about her after she made that completely stupid-ass comment.

quote Originally posted by aceman: And I don't teach or facilitate the Army's "Consideration of Others" program. I can't teach/facilitate something that I believe is complete BS.

Ah, now I understand. I rescind my call out.

quote Originally posted by aceman: I didn't treat her any differently than if other person on here made an INSANELY STUPID UNTHOUGHTOUT remark.

With insults, again I see. Could you have done better ?

quote Originally posted by aceman: With the stupid comment his wife made, I merely stated how and why those two are married to each other.

That is not prejudgement?

Proff, whats your minumin wage in Sydney? Sydney must be something like London where everyhting costs enormous amounts?

Ace I nor anyone else ever said the price of fuel was completely the reason for the cost of food going up. Just that they are directly related.

Example the price of food goes up when the price of fuel goes up. Not the whole reason but a factor. No matter how you slant it. That was what I said and you completely disagreed with it.

You refuse to admit that fuel has anything to do with the increase with the cost of food. At least that is what you have been saying.

Yes there are other factors related to the increase in food costs, but I would say a major factor is the price of fuel. It increases the cost of everything related to food.

Shipping,
Growing,
Feeding

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

No it's not prejudgement.

Prejudgement would be to say that his wife must be stupid because she's married to him.

She spoke out with a insanely stupid comment and AFTER that I made my comment about how they are like individuals.

I don't think ANYWHERE or ANYTIME I have made a comment or insult about someone until AFTER they've posted something or have a track record of their position of something.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: That is not prejudgement?

No its not. It was postjudgement. Based on the post by both of them and after said posts were posted a conclusion was made. After. Not before.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: . Prices at the grocery store are directly related to gas prices. Cost the farmer more to plant, harvest, transport, and everything in between.

That's pretty close and damning quote right there, Steve.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Ace I nor anyone else ever said the price of fuel was completely the reason for the cost of food going up. Just that they are directly related. ......

I did. and I stand by that. and, Aceman did admit it was a factor also. fuel/energy costs are raising prices of everything. everything requires fuel/energy to produce - even services. and, since this is NOT an inflation increase in prices - wages do not follow - for most.

And Steve, you refuse to admit and understand that in the past year, food prices have not gone up/skyrocketted like you think they have. They've gone up 7% at the most with the exception of milk.

And while tied to fuel prices, Corn and ethanol production is driving up the price of food. We probably wouldn't see much of an increase in food if we used sugar beets instead of corn (The staple for feed and ingredient for corn syrup, etc).

quote Originally posted by aceman: Prejudgement would be to say that his wife must be stupid because she's married to him.

Yes you did, by insinuation. I suppose she must get out of the deep end too?

By the way the price at Wally World last year for a loaf of bread here was 99 cents a loaf. The price now for the same brand has gone up at least 50 cents. Here not there.

Ace you will never and to date have never admitted you are wrong no matter what. So go on your merry way thinking you are always right about anything and everything because someday it will come back and bite you right in the ass.

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by aceman: And Steve, you refuse to admit and understand that in the past year, food prices have not gone up/skyrocketted like you think they have. They've gone up 7% at the most with the exception of milk. ......

much of this depends on your situation. if food was already a struggle, 7% just means that much more of a struggle.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Aceman, Bill, and Phranc, you all need to start a new thread everyday, because we do not get the point yet.

That wont work..


What you need to do is...... is create a thread about..... air.

I'll ask why it exists then Douche twins will join in instantly turning it into a welfare battle and use me as their hood ornament.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: That wont work.. What you need to do is...... is create a thread about..... air. I'll ask why it exists then Douche twins will join in instantly turning it into a welfare battle and use me as their hood ornament.

Stop trolling by calling me a douche bill. Don't push me.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: much of this depends on your situation. if food was already a struggle, 7% just means that much more of a struggle.

Would you like me to crunch the figures at the $1500 level? We go any lower and we hit foodstamp and welfare issues.

For a single person 7% increase in food will amount to $20, MAYBE $30 more a month. Yes, it all adds up, but it's not that much that we're in a crisis mode.

What to tied up in running this thread into the trash can to answer my post?

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

Thats 1.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: What to tied up in running this thread into the trash can to answer my post?

In English, please?

quote Originally posted by aceman: Would you like me to crunch the figures at the $1500 level? We go any lower and we hit foodstamp and welfare issues. For a single person 7% increase in food will amount to $20, MAYBE $30 more a month. Yes, it all adds up, but it's not that much that we're in a crisis mode.

nope - not necessary. I fully realize its roughly a 20 spot, depending on habits. and, I'd even add that maybe not buying that 12 of bud would help alot.

and, again - food is not the only thing. there is the doubled gas & electricty. if it was just food, by itself - yes, not a biggie. but - I am sure you've seen the other thread on heating - there are folks not able to cover that either. and, other threads about people trying to get better milage out ther cars. ever since 9/11 - tiny bits of extra weight has been put on everyones shoulders - tiny bits at a time. yes, this little one by itself - insignificant. but when piled up - are crushing to many.

Insurance, gas, food, cloths, phone, electric, rent / mortgage and water. These basics have all increased 10 to 30 % in the last year. Those who didnt have enough last year are already on the streets, those who were just above water last year are about to be on the streets.

Just becasue SOME of you arent having a hard time doesnt mean everyone else is doing just fine fine fine. To think that is pure plain and simple egocentric ignorance.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: By the way the price at Wally World last year for a loaf of bread here was 99 cents a loaf. The price now for the same brand has gone up at least 50 cents. Here not there. Ace you will never and to date have never admitted you are wrong no matter what. So go on your merry way thinking you are always right about anything and everything because someday it will come back and bite you right in the ass.

you really are an ass, ace

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-07-2007).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Insurance, gas, food, cloths, phone, electric, rent / mortgage and water. These basics have all increased 10 to 30 % in the last year.

BULLSH!T!

I just posted an article on how much food prices went up in this thread, Bill.

My mortgage went DOWN this past year. My clothing costs did not go up this year. My phone didn't increase this year. My electric bill increased about 3%. My insurance went DOWN.

Back it up Bill before you say I have rose colored glasses on again!

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 12-07-2007).]

My electric went up double over last year do to deregulation. Not actual cost to produce. I remember when the state said deregulation would allow for competition and lower prices. Still a monopoly and prices doubled. Everything else stayed even or dropped save for gas and a slight dare I say negligible increase in food.

Phranc, remember, we're special people that get to wear rose colored glasses.

quote Originally posted by aceman: Phranc, remember, we're special people that get to wear rose colored glasses.

By 'get' you mean bust my butt to make sure everything is in order and by 'rose coloured' you me the colour of my tired eyes For years as I worked 16 hour days as a day labourer in order to save money to be more secure today. Then yes.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: By 'get' you mean bust my butt to make sure everything is in order and by 'rose coloured' you me the colour of my tired eyes For years as I worked 16 hour days as a day labourer in order to save money to be more secure today. Then yes.

nice. no matter what - your dedication is always a fine quality.
I may not agree with your harsh stance - but damnit - you sure earned your way.

Steve, I was WRONG!

Food prices didn't rise 7% over the past year. They rose 4.5%!

http://money.cnn.com/2007/1...stversion=2007120712

And Bill, you're wrong too!

"Food prices overall have risen 4.5 percent over the last year, according to Brian Todd, president of the industry association the Food Institute. Meanwhile, prices for other consumer goods excluding food and energy have risen about 2 percent this year."

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: That wont work.. What you need to do is...... is create a thread about..... air. I'll ask why it exists then Douche twins will join in instantly turning it into a welfare battle and use me as their hood ornament.

ZING! SWEET!

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, some of it is because people CHOOSE to live in an area of high prices?

Insurance: My insurance went down last year by about 10% Why? No claims
Gas: Natural Gas is 7% cheaper than last year. Gasoline is higher, of course
Food: Still spending the same as we have for the last 2 years
Clothes: We buy very few clothes, but I did buy some new jeans a while back at Orschelins and they were within a dollar or so of what I paid last year
Electric: Also down by about 4% over last year
Phone: Paying the same for it for the last 2 years. In fact, my cell bill dropped $50/month because I changed plans
Rent/Mortgage: Exactly the same for the last 3 years after I refi'd at a lower interest (fixed)
Water: Got me on that one, it went up $2 a month or so on a $35 average bill
Taxes: Property taxes DID go up most of all, close to 11%

The basics for me did NOT go up anywhere near 10 - 30%. In some areas, I'm sure it did, but not here. Inflation has been less than 3% for the last few years

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Insurance, gas, food, cloths, phone, electric, rent / mortgage and water. These basics have all increased 10 to 30 % in the last year. Those who didnt have enough last year are already on the streets, those who were just above water last year are about to be on the streets. Just becasue SOME of you arent having a hard time doesnt mean everyone else is doing just fine fine fine. To think that is pure plain and simple egocentric ignorance.

quote Originally posted by aceman: And Steve, you have a valid point on the fuel and energy costs affecting the the MARGINAL increases in food prices.

Quick someone dial 9111111111, myyyyy leftttttttttt hannnnnnnnnnddddddddddd isssss gggetttingggg nummmmbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII''''''''''MMMMMMMMMMMMM hhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaavvvvviiiinggggggggg anouther stroke.

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-07-2007).]

quote Originally posted by aceman: Holy Happy Horseshit! This article answers a lot of our arguments in this thread! Jazzman, here are some of your answers: "Fabiosa noted that Americans spend only about 10 percent of their income of food, so for them the increase may be palpable. "

And then,another quote from a post you made earlier :
".......So, I need to ask........Is $30/day to feed a family of 4 outrageous? ($7.50/day for feed one person)........"

Does the average American family earn in excess of $9300 a month?????? (10x$30x31 days)... WOW!! I'm DEFINiTELY coming to the USA...via Mexico, of course
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 12-07-2007).]

So, Steve, The cost of that energy is a "big part" of the 4.5% increase in food costs this year.

"Big part". That wouldn't be a MAJORITY of the increase. Surely a report would get a quote of a "majority" if it was 51% or more.

So "big part" .................40% of that 4.5%? So that's less than 2% of the increase in food? So the energy costs are not all of the food price increase and they're not even apparently a majority. They're a "big chunk".

2% of $250 per person for food each month is......A whopping $5/month more!

I can deal with $20-30 more a month for my family's food bill, what pisses me off with the damn corn and ethanol is that it drove up the price of my $4/case on sale every other week Coca-cola to $6/case on sale every other week. That's hurting me about as bad as the fuel pumps hurt me!

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: And then,another quote from a post you made earlier : ".......So, I need to ask........Is $30/day to feed a family of 4 outrageous? ($7.50/day for feed one person)........" Does the average American family earn in excess of $9300 a month?????? (10x$30x31 days)... WOW!! I'm DEFINiTELY coming to the USA...via Mexico, of course Nick

That's only 930 dollars per month.

And yup, we would be glad to have you!

[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 12-08-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: And then,another quote from a post you made earlier : ".......So, I need to ask........Is $30/day to feed a family of 4 outrageous? ($7.50/day for feed one person)........" Does the average American family earn in excess of $9300 a month?????? (10x$30x31 days)... WOW!! I'm DEFINiTELY coming to the USA...via Mexico, of course Nick

Nick, we can skew it anyway we all want to. $1000/month for food for a family of 4 is $250 per person. (You saw the menus. It wasn't rock soup and lard sandwiches. It was eating very well. It was discussed that those menus could be cut down in price.) So, average American........Jazzman......Single..... Jazzman makes the average wage in America. An article posted yesterday or today says that's $17.62/hr (About $3000 before taxes. $2000? after taxes and deductions?) Under my figures, Jazzman spends about 12.5% on his food. Jazzman probably actually only spends $200/month on food and thus 10%. You and Ellie live in the U.S. and you both work. You become a UAW union monkey and make $35/hr or $70,000/year and Ellie makes $30,000/year. That's about $8300 before taxes and about $5500 after taxes. You two spend $500/month on food. Or less than 10% of your take home pay. Bill for example. Ah sh!t................I've never received food stamps so I can't figure that one into an equation. Lets take someone single that is making $75,000/year and takes home $4000/month and only spends $250/month on food.... They're only spending 7% of their income on food. For my family, we eat very well and spend about 20-25% of our income on food. When my wife goes back to work and takes home another $2000/month, we'll be spending about 15% of out take home pay on food. When my kids leave the house, we'll be spending maybe 7% of our pay on food.

[This message has been edited by aceman (edited 12-07-2007).]