http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21195869/

Hmmmm, less than 7% increase in meats over the past year.

quote Originally posted by aceman: So, we've nailed down, with hard numbers that gas has gone up 33%. In my area it went up 30% from 1year ago today. I haven't seen my food bill go up 30% over the past year. I'd like to see you prove that your food bill has even gone up 10-15% over the past year.

this would imply that the cost of food is 100% fuel costs
if fuel goes up 30% then food goes up 30% - that is what is being implied by this math.

and, you are being unreasonably stubburn to think that food costs will NOT go up in repsonse to fuel costs. as will costs of EVERYTHING. very little gets made without the use of fuel, shipping, electricity, etc. what is the farmers tool? a tractor. how does the food get from farm to your local shopping center? carried by storks??

energy costs is a mighty force in our economy.

No, Steve stated: "Say what you want the price is directly related to the price of gas."

No food prices ARE NOT. There are other facotrs. If it was DIRECTLY realated to the price of gas then food prices would go up 30%.

Fuel costs are only a portion of why food has gone up only 6-7% over the past year.

Movie tickets have gone up more than that this year. Are we going to directly blame that on the cost of fuel? My DirecTV bill went up 10% this year. Is that directly related to the cost of fuel?

Ace you really aren’t worth wasting anyone’s time on. Your right, we’re wrong.

Happy?

No..............Once again. I'm right, YOU'RE wrong.

quote Originally posted by aceman: No, Steve stated: "Say what you want the price is directly related to the price of gas." No food prices ARE NOT. There are other facotrs. If it was DIRECTLY realated to the price of gas then food prices would go up 30%. Fuel costs are only a portion of why food has gone up only 6-7% over the past year. Movie tickets have gone up more than that this year. Are we going to directly blame that on the cost of fuel? My DirecTV bill went up 10% this year. Is that directly related to the cost of fuel?

lol - I see
but, yes - maybe not fuel as in gasoline - but energy costs. fuel, being a subset. and, let me tell ya - satalites aint cheap to luanch or maintain.
and, since we have no or little inflation - yes - it is all because of energy costs. only other cuase for increased prices is greed. and, with increased compitition, due to energy costs - not many businesses can get away with "because we can" pricing. no matter what some may think.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: lol - I see but, yes - maybe not fuel as in gasoline - but energy costs. fuel, being a subset. and, let me tell ya - satalites aint cheap to luanch or maintain. and, since we have no or little inflation - yes - it is all because of energy costs. only other cuase for increased prices is greed. and, with increased compitition, due to energy costs - not many businesses can get away with "because we can" pricing. no matter what some may think.

I can agree with a lot of this, however....

There can't be an increase because the farmer or the food cannery gave their employees a raise? That NEVER happens.

There can't be an increase in the price because advertising went up at Del Monte?

There can't be a price increase because of a bad crop year?

There can't be a price increase because of research and development costs into a new seed or fertilizer or feed?

quote Originally posted by aceman: I can agree with a lot of this, however.... There can't be an increase because the farmer or the food cannery gave their employees a raise? That NEVER happens. There can't be an increase in the price because advertising went up at Del Monte? There can't be a price increase because of a bad crop year? There can't be a price increase because of research and development costs into a new seed or fertilizer or feed?

what do these have to do with movies or directtv?

They don't. They show that the increase in food costs is not directly related to fuel or energy costs.

anyways - I'd really like to live in that world where fuel/energy costs dont affect the costs of items. sure sounds like a great place.

So would I. But maybe you could just realize that you live in a world that fuel and energy costs are not the whole reason that the price of something goes up.

quote Originally posted by aceman: So would I. But maybe you could just realize that you live in a world that fuel and energy costs are not the whole reason that the price of something goes up.

yes - true. it is not the whole reason. but, when most things have stayed fairly constant - this is one variable that has doubled in the last few years. so, it is a pretty significant force.

What ace is trying to point out is that the costs of everything are interconnected. For example, take his point that if the workers get a pay raise then the cost of this will be passed on to consumers. Why did they need the pay raise in the first place? Cost of living has increased (housing, food, fuel, clothes, car maintenance, etc.), therefore the workers need more money to live on. In order for the producer to continue to work competitively they need to pay their workers more or they will leave. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It's a circle, we can't just jump in arbitrarily. Any time a price changes it will send ripples through the economy in all sorts of different sectors. For example, the push to use corn to produce ethanol has pushed up food prices because more farmers are choosing to produce corn because the ethanol producers are willing to pay more for the corn (because they can sell their refined product for a profit) rather than consumers and corn canners. This in turn drives up all sorts of other food prices through basic supply and demand, for example if 30 farmers switch their wheat fields to corn fields one year (I know it's not that simple, but humour me) all of a sudden there's that much less wheat in the economy. Therefore the price of wheat goes up because demand has stayed the same or grown. Economics is not simple, and there is no single right answer. But more government controls will only make the situation worse.

quote Originally posted by AntiKev: What ace is trying to point out is that the costs of everything are interconnected. For example, take his point that if the workers get a pay raise then the cost of this will be passed on to consumers. Why did they need the pay raise in the first place? Cost of living has increased (housing, food, fuel, clothes, car maintenance, etc.), therefore the workers need more money to live on. In order for the producer to continue to work competitively they need to pay their workers more or they will leave. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It's a circle, we can't just jump in arbitrarily. Any time a price changes it will send ripples through the economy in all sorts of different sectors. For example, the push to use corn to produce ethanol has pushed up food prices because more farmers are choosing to produce corn because the ethanol producers are willing to pay more for the corn (because they can sell their refined product for a profit) rather than consumers and corn canners. This in turn drives up all sorts of other food prices through basic supply and demand, for example if 30 farmers switch their wheat fields to corn fields one year (I know it's not that simple, but humour me) all of a sudden there's that much less wheat in the economy. Therefore the price of wheat goes up because demand has stayed the same or grown. Economics is not simple, and there is no single right answer. But more government controls will only make the situation worse.

of course. but - workers did not get their pay doubled, did they? in fact, by most reports - wages have stayed steady. corn is the only food item which has had a shift in demand. fuel/energy costs is the only single item which recently has taken a drastic change. I agree 100% that there are many forces at work in pricing/the economy. but to waive off fuel/energy costs as insignificant is foolish.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: of course. but - workers did not get their pay doubled, did they? in fact, by most reports - wages have stayed steady. corn is the only food item which has had a shift in demand. fuel/energy costs is the only single item which recently has taken a drastic change. I agree 100% that there are many forces at work in pricing/the economy. but to waive off fuel/energy costs as insignificant is foolish.

What Aceman foolish, never he knows it all. lol

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: of course. but - workers did not get their pay doubled, did they? in fact, by most reports - wages have stayed steady. corn is the only food item which has had a shift in demand. fuel/energy costs is the only single item which recently has taken a drastic change. I agree 100% that there are many forces at work in pricing/the economy. but to waive off fuel/energy costs as insignificant is foolish.

But the increase in demand for corn has not changed the demand for other foodstuffs that require large grown areas, grains, beans etc. These are the farmers that are switching to corn. When it costs a farmer more to get grain to feed his cattle because half the farmers in the area switched to producing corn, then he's going to have to pass that onto his customers in order for him to live comfortably. This is something Steve should understand, being a farmer. Or should the farmer eat the increased cost of his supplies?

quote Originally posted by AntiKev: But the increase in demand for corn has not changed the demand for other foodstuffs that require large grown areas, grains, beans etc. These are the farmers that are switching to corn. When it costs a farmer more to get grain to feed his cattle because half the farmers in the area switched to producing corn, then he's going to have to pass that onto his customers in order for him to live comfortably. This is something Steve should understand, being a farmer. Or should the farmer eat the increased cost of his supplies?

good stuff - didnt think about the hole left by shifting to more corn. yes, there was a demand shift to corn - but that created a supply hole everywhere else. no doubt - has had an affect. but, again - I doubt it has had as much impact on prices as the doubled cost of fuel/energy. doubled. that is ALOT in a little time.

and, indirectly - the corn demand shift is due to fuel/energy, is it not? <- thats stretching it

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: What Aceman foolish, never he knows it all. lol

Did I completely waive off the cost of energy and fuel? No, I didn't, Steve. Maybe you should come out of the pool now and dry off.

I hope you can all shake hands and smile at eachother if you see eachother at a Fiero meet. This is a dandy conversation here.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-06-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: ... and, indirectly - the corn demand shift is due to fuel/energy, is it not? <- thats stretching it

The corn switch is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Bring fuel prices down by increasing food prices.

quote Originally posted by aceman: WTF is this comment from you, Steve? Having memory problems of what you just posted?

I have a regular job, thats not a fixed income? I can't work overtime if I feel like it.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 12-08-2008).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Uhhh... no. For a shrinking number of people the pay has indeed gone up faster than food prices as a percentage, but that group of people is at the upper middle to high end of the scale where incomes are so high that food prices are a completely and totally trivial percentage of pay, to the point of being non-relevant. For most of the people not at the upper end of the income ladder the pay is increasing at a slower rate than the price of food. I am in the very bottom of the middle and my pay has gone up a fraction of what food prices have as a percentage, and since my income is so low the percentage of my income that I spend on food has skyrocketed. I'm not alone, there are probably over a hundred million people experiencing the same thing I am in this country right now. Everyone who spends double digit percentages of their income on food raise their hands! JazzMan

exactly. I dont see anyone being able to "keep up" with the raising energy costs. being a outside item - employers have no reason to give out raises because fuel/energy costs increased. in fact - the employers are feeling it too.

How much per year (percentage) has your income gone up, Jazzman? 0%? 2%? 3%? 5%? 7%? 10%?

Back on topic, heres how you eat great food for chump change:
Step one: Read the grocery ad.

Step two: plan your menu around the specials.
Tonight I'll have pork chops [$1.29 per #] with rice and tomato gravy. Fast, easy, cheap and oh so good.
Friday night I'll go out.
Saturday night I'll have fish fillets [.99 per #] stuffed with crab meat, bought for $1.50 a can on sale at Walgreen's last month.Roasted potato wedges and a salad on the side.
Any leftover fish/crab will get mixed with canned tuna [.59 per can] for sandwiches during the week.
After I clean the fish, I'll simmer the heads and bones in water, remove the parts, and add veggies and a few shrimp [from the freezer]to the broth for a delicious fishermans stew.
Boneless, skinless chicken breasts are on sale for $1.99 per #, so I'll buy a jumbo pack for the freezer.
There are "like a million ways" to use them.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 12-06-2007).]

quote Originally posted by aceman: How much per year (percentage) has your income gone up, Jazzman? 0%? 2%? 3%? 5%? 7%? 10%?

mine has gone down 0.5% every year for the last 5.....and, I'm doing OK compared to others here in Michigan.....blech....

Numbers crunch time:

Lets say you take home $2,500 a month last year and you paid $250/month for food. You used 10% of your income per month on food.

This year, you got a 3% pay increase. You now make $2575/month. Food went up 7% this year. You now pay 267.50 for food a month.

Food is costing you .32% MORE of your monthly paycheck! That's POINT 32 PERCENT MORE! C'mon now! Is my math wrong here?????

Your maths are fine.The problem comes from exaduraters who say food is going up by sooooo much. Then when you get down to the numbers its gone up but by fractions. Some cases fractions of fractions.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE:

Stop being reasonable! Your blowing my perception of you.

Don't you see? your just being controlled by corporate America! heh

More numbers crunches:

Your monthly takehome pay is $2000/month. Your food bill last year was $250/month. You used 12.5% of your check for food.

This year, you got a no raise. Your takehome pays is $2000/month. Food went up 7% this year. Your food bill was $267.50/month. You paid 1% more for food this year. C'mon now!

$2000/month takehome is like $15/hr job.

I know my household food bill went up because I stopped mostly going out for lunch, and started brown bagging. (actually, red Dale Jr. #8 lunch bag )

I do find it funny that many peoples experiences are being called liars. Most of us do know how to shop & plan.

quote Originally posted by Skanc: That was a rhetorical statement bill. But keep projecting your faults on me. I know it makes you feel just a little bit better about your failure of a life.

I project on you? Seems to me you have it all figured out. Skanc is right a 5% increase in food prices isnt a problem FOR YOU. Life is just dandy FOR YOU. Skanc your world is so damn rose colored it's almost disgusting... but I spose thats what happens when your head is burried up you ass so deep you can see the back of your teeth.

quote See bill Waaaaahhhhhhhhhh waaahhhhhhhhhhhh Wahhhhhhhhhhh....

Yes I see very clearly, no rose coloring at all.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 12-06-2007).]

Stop crying bill and get a job. Then you'll have some money to buy food.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Stop crying bill and get a job. Then you'll have some money to buy food.

I dont need a job.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I dont need a job.

Then you don't need to cry about the price of food, right, because you have plenty of money.

We are paying three times this , here in Sydney
I'm moving to where you are.
Hows the cost of housing and employment there?

quote Originally posted by aceman: So, I need to ask........ Is $30/day to feed a family of 4 outrageous? ($7.50/day for feed one person) SUNDAY: BRUNCH: 12 Eggs $1.75 Pack of Sausage: $1.25 Pack of Bacon $2.50 Hash Browns: $2.00 ½ Loaf Bread $0.50 8 Pack Cinnamon Rolls: $1.75 1 Quart of Milk from the Gallon $0.75 1 Quart of Orange Juice from the ½ Gallon $1.25 Butter, Cooking Oil, Peanut Butter, Jelly, Seasonings $0.50 TOTAL: $12.25 SUPPER: 2 ½ lbs T-Bone Steak $12.50 ($4.99/lbs on sale) 4 Baking Potatoes $1.00 ($0.39/lbs) 1 Can of Beans $0.50 1 loaf of garlic bread $2.00 1 cake with frosting $2.50 1 Quart of Milk from the Gallon $0.75 Butter, Cooking Oil, Seasonings $0.50 TOTAL: $19.75 Total for the Weekend Day for a Family of 4: $32 MONDAY: BREAKFAST: Cereal with Milk: $2.50 Toast: $0.25 1 Quart of Orange Juice from the ½ Gallon $1.25 TOTAL $4.00 LUNCH: School Hot Lunch for 2 Elementary School Kids: $4.50 Deli Ham and Cheese Sandwich (Homemade) and a Coke for the Wife: $1.50 Chipotle Burrito and Coke for me: $7 TOTAL: $13 SUPPER: 5lbs Chicken Leg Quarters $5 ($0.99/lbs on sale for 10/bs bag) 1 Box of Instant Mashed Potatoes $1 1 Can of Chicken Gravy $1 1 Can of Corn: $0.50 1 tube Pillsbury French Bread $1.75 1 Quart of Milk from the Gallon $0.75 Butter, Cooking Oil, Seasonings $0.50 TOTAL: $10.50 Total for the Weekday for a Family of 4: $27.50

------------------
Allen
Blue Mountains Fiero's
Australia
86 gold SE
85 red SE
01161412119530

quote Originally posted by Skanc: Then you don't need to cry about the price of food, right, if you have plenty of money.

I can agree with the above quote but not everyones world is rose red and goes about life thinking their sh!t dont stink but everyone else's does.

Ya know Skanc? If you pull that fat head out of your ass long enough you might just learn something.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I do find it funny that many peoples experiences are being called liars. Most of us do know how to shop & plan.

I did not read anything that way, I mostly heard people telling others that they spend their money foolishly, and I have to agree. I could triple my grocery bill id I went to a yuppie store, smarter than that, or one of these organic food stores, I don't like Sh!t on my food though.

I think everybody does agree food has gone up, just how much is the thing.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I can agree with the above quote but not everyones world is rose red and goes about life thinking their sh!t dont stink but everyone else's does. Ya know Skanc? If you pull that fat head out of your ass long enough you might just learn something.

Learn what bill? How to be a drain on my neighbour? How to be a welfare queen?I know what its like to be poor bill and not eat everyday. I know what its like to be homeless. What can your dumb ass teach me I don't all ready know? I never said my poop don't stink. Its just I learned how to wipe my own ass. Now go get high and play in traffic.