quote Originally posted by Mach10: 3) You are degrading my country. Therefore: You suck

Welcome to our world! Seems that every post in O/T is about what a terrible bunch all of us Americans are! Hopefully you'll understand how it feels and choose your words a little better when talking about our country...But I doubt it! haha

This is mostly a joke. You're an alright guy, but you do tend to slam our country and get all offended if anyone says anything about yours... And I have never put your country down so I am just making an observation.

quote Originally posted by Mach10: Are you nuts?!? The ENTIRE US economy is based on import and high-level manufacturing. The US doesn't HAVE any natural resources left. Resource extraction barely registers in your economy. OUR economy, on the other hand, hinges more than 35% on resource extraction. Canada, has more oil, more available forest, more available minerals, fresh water, building land, arable land, and marine resources than most two countries put together. You DO know we are the 2nd largest in terms of Land Mass, right? :rolleyese: Your post is just plain offensive, mate. 1) You don't know what you are talking about. 2) You make really dumb generalizations. 3) You are degrading my country. Therefore: You suck

OK OK, I think we are getting a little far a field here. Steve, I am quoting the World Fact Book which is posted by the CIA. And according to them, Canada is 21st. Your debate over the definition of "proven reserves" is with them. I only used it as an illustration for my point about why Canada is not a terrorist target.

I am not putting down Canada either Mach10. But due to the smiles I assume you knew that. I simply wanted to point out that the REASON Canada is not the receipient of terrorist attention is that there is no reason to attack Canada.

The regretable truth is that some nations and people identify with terrorists. It is easy for them to look the other way when they feel the terrorists have some sort of moral justification, like attacking the big bad bully Americans. OH WELL, if America wasn't so imperialistic in it's foriegn policy...blah blah blah. But Canada? The world would truly leap up in outrage at that idea and the terrorists know it! It would be like attacking a sweet old lady (again, no disrespect intended).

Oh, and just to set the record straight on American resources, the US is in the top ten on just about everything, Gold, Oil, Coal, Rubys and Sapphires, Lumber, etc. http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

True, Canada has a lot of buildable space. When are you going to start building on it? With a GDP of 10.45 Trillion dollars compared with Canada's 934 Billion the "2nd largest country" in the world has a GDP of less than 9% of the US. So there!

quote Originally posted by Toddster: True, Canada has a lot of buildable space. When are you going to start building on it?

When it thaws! haha

Mach 10,

You're as far off base as Toddster is. We still have vast reserves of oil and NG (which for varied reasons we have not tapped) and our agricultural natural resources are both renewable and the most bountiful in the world. This isn't a case of one-upmanship, but it should be kept accurate.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Mach10: Are you nuts?!? The ENTIRE US economy is based on import and high-level manufacturing. The US doesn't HAVE any natural resources left. Resource extraction barely registers in your economy. OUR economy, on the other hand, hinges more than 35% on resource extraction. Canada, has more oil, more available forest, more available minerals, fresh water, building land, arable land, and marine resources than most two countries put together. You DO know we are the 2nd largest in terms of Land Mass, right? :rolleyese: Your post is just plain offensive, mate. 1) You don't know what you are talking about. 2) You make really dumb generalizations. 3) You are degrading my country. Therefore: You suck

quote Originally posted by Mach10: Are you nuts?!? The ENTIRE US economy is based on import and high-level manufacturing. The US doesn't HAVE any natural resources left. Resource extraction barely registers in your economy. Canada, has more oil, more available forest, more available minerals, fresh water, building land, arable land, and marine resources than most two countries put together. You DO know we are the 2nd largest in terms of Land Mass, right? :rolleyese: Your post is just plain offensive, mate.

Yes, Toddster is nuckin futs. First, he thinks the only reason to invade a country is to steal natural resources, all the while, forgetting ideological differences, religious differences, political differences/disagreements, strategic proximity, revenge, and probably hundreds of other reasons that are legitimized/rationalized by countries that attack. Why did Japan attack the US in WWII? Resources? Why did we engage N. Viet Nam and N. Korea? Resources? The list could go on, and resource is one of the least likely reasons in this day and age for a country to attack another country.

"OUR economy, on the other hand, hinges more than 35% on resource extraction."

Ya, and you guys make some cool skydiving acft too. (twin otter and others)

"Canada, has more oil, ..., fresh water, ..."

We have fresh water; it's on the shelves at the store .

"1) You don't know what you are talking about."

Toddster sells antique books that are very hard to find.... http://www.rarebookonline.com/ He must know what he is talking about. After all, a scholar like Toddster is one in a million. He sells, "popluar literature" like it reads on his website. Uh, well, he actually has been relegated to selling book covers, as he has no books for sale and hasn't sold any on this website for more than 7 months. However, he still does sell book covers.

"2) You make really dumb generalizations."

Nuff said.

"3) You are degrading my country."

That's ok, he degrades lots of places and people he knows nothing about so don't feel too special.

"Therefore: You suck "

Wait, that can't be true either, as he has more green than red in his rating bar. At least that's his criterion.

Songman: It's called a double standard. EVERYONE likes Canada (except Spanish Fishermen)

Toddster: We also have about 10% of your population

Stricker: My post was tongue-in-cheek... The US has plenty left, but for whatever reason, your economy isn't really geared to take advantage of them. Canada has the distinction of being one of the few countries around that actually has the resources and technological base[to extract them] to be totally self-suficient. But it's cheaper not to To be sefl-suficient, we'd have to build a MILITARY...

One thing that may clear up a lot of murky water:
Canada and the US are almost IMPOSSIBLE to compare, since BOTH of our data-gathering people do so in completely different ways. Suffice to say that Canada's economy sure ACTS like it's dependant on resource production and export

quote Originally posted by Mach10: Songman: It's called a double standard. EVERYONE likes Canada (except Spanish Fishermen)

Amen on double standards! Speaking as am American, it sucks to be on the receiving end all the time. haha

I don't have anything against Canada... The parts of Canada that I have seen have been very beautiful.

Typical I'm Back. I'll let your post do the talking.

For the rest of you, I issue catalogs. Just go to my web page and click on the "Free Catalog" link. ( I DON'T list my inventory on the web as IB seems to think, and don't use eBay anymore - I do have to update the web page on that issue) so if you are interested in an unusual Christmas Gift Idea, try a first edition! Call with your requests or get on the mailing list.

[/shameless plug]

quote Originally posted by Songman: Ed.. Was there an actual point to your attack on Todd or were you just proving yet again that the red in people's ratings bars are more about their attitude than their beliefs? I think it was the latter. That is about all I ever see from you... Since you are so quick to belittle Todd's business and accomplishments, I would love to see yours... And please post better proof than you usually have in your long and windy posts.

Just indicating Toddster's usual avoidance technique. My business endeavors have been limited to being an FAA licensed mechanic and licensed inspector. I'm also a licensed (not current) pilot and have an FCC GROL (radio license). I've always worked for someone, as it is very difficult/risky to work alone with insurance in the acft industry. I had a one-person process serving business for several years as a part-time deal while I worked full-time and attended college. Now I'm back in college pursuing nursing. The reason I posted his website and refer to his book cover business is that he used to constantly refer to his greater intellect and general greater worth than other people, so I investigated his website that he posted and found a big zero. The guy's writing is not spot-on, so I just wonder how he can toot his horn about his alleged MA degree in the works and his so-called antique book business. I tend to undersell myself, so then people are hopefully amazed at my abilities, rather than being disappointed after finding my abilities are less than advertised. You won't hear (read) me telling people how great I am, but some members of the Grand Ole Party seem to oversell themselves.

It’s funny how people think the red/green bars are a measure of anything but popularity. I commented on them in detail a page back, but as usual no one replied. I compel someone to read back a page or so and reply to all the comments made by me about the rating system. It won’t happen, but it would be interesting.

Face it, Toddster or any of the PFF Grand ole Partiers could say/do just about anything and their ratings wouldn’t change. The rating system did some good in the early days, but it now used as a barometer of permission to act out. If a person holds a high rating, they can write anything they want about someone with a lower one and it’s acceptable.

Songman, since you find it necessary to defend Toddster (why I don’t know), are you aware of what an Ad Hominem is? It’s a character attack used to support your argument. As in, ‘I’m back is a liberal, so he never has anything positive to say.” About 3 of you continually engage in those tactics and refuse to answer my questions. Face it; you can’t answer them so you duck. I challenge you to answer them.

“That is about all I ever see from you...”

That’s because, A) You rarely/never wander out of the O/T section, and, B) You only look for that in my posts.

FACT:

The I.Q. of BUSH JR is 85.

CLINTON's I.Q> is 167.

This administration is robbing you all blind AND YOU ARE LOVING THEM FOR IT. They have allocated close to 800 billion for rebuilding Iraq. This is the largest tax payer funded project EVER. Its not about Saddam. Its about money. Its not about WOMD its about money.
That guy who made fun of Germany and France questioning the legal aspects of this type of handouts and extreme costs is off. THEY are actually looking to shed light on the subject. Yes its a dumb person I.Q. of 85 in office right now; BUT remember that THE ACTUAL people running our govt have been in place for around 20 yrs. Most we dont even know thier names. George is a face. He can barely put two sentences together. Theres nothing up there.

Its his signature thats needed. Behind the scenes, its advisors who are the ones setting the agendas, policies, devising enemies, and setting priorities for WA. The advisors to this president are also robbing you. We are being plundered folks.

There may be a way to reverse all of this. It has to be proven that these costs are fraud and corrupt. Overcharging & conflicts of interests running rampant between DoD and contractors.
We need to get out NOW. We have to stop thier plundering NOW. We've secured oil for the next 10 yrs for those big oil companies from the evil unstable regime YES, but its costing way more than you think. Invading/controlling Canadas market may also be underway (contigency plan B).

The Eagle is looking more like a predator than protector. This administration is hungry-and we are feeding her

[This message has been edited by G-Nasty (edited 12-19-2003).]

I'm calling BS on this one. If you're making a statement like that I want sources verifying that or it's time for you to admit that you lied about it and/or made it up. You don't like President Bush, fine, you don't have to. If you wish to maintain any credibility at all on the forum you DO have to tell the truth and you're not doing it.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by G-Nasty: FACT: The I.Q. of BUSH JR is 85. CLINTON's I.Q> is 167.

Well, the IQ thing is obviously not true, but even if it was, it says a lot, doesn't it. A guy with an IQ about half as much can run things better than some genius. Just proves the points I have been making about decision-making and resolve.

Hey, Stephen Hawking for president. He's supposed to be really smart, right? Or is he british. I don't even know. Just fill in your favorite most intelligent person in the world, and push them for president.

Ed, what can anyone say to you? Nothing that sinks in obviously... The reason people don't respond to you is not because you are right. It is because you are long and windy and your 'facts' are rarely ever correct. You try to kill people with big words. You respond to single sentences or less, so you can take them out of context to twist them to your own purposes, and you change your stance every time the wind changes...

And it amazes me that red bar folks CONSTANTLY go with the idea that the ratings are a popularity contest and can't look inward to see why they deserve the red.

Ed, I don't have to defend Todd. He's shown to be very intelligent here. Honestly, he's shown a lot more than you have. I'm not against you. I'd love to see something out of you other than the normal spewing but it never happens.. Your idiotic statement that I rarely wander out of O/T shows exactly the kind of BS that I am talking about.. I think my status and participation in the Fiero world far surpasses yours. Obviously it is not me who is spending too much time in O/T. In fact I rarely wander in here and when I do I usually regret it. It's very frustrating trying to comprehend your gibberish and twisted logic.

quote Originally posted by G-Nasty: FACT: The I.Q. of BUSH JR is 85. CLINTON's I.Q> is 167.

And people wonder why they are not taken seriously... hahah

Clinton's IQ 167? Bush 85?

First of all, Bush; If Bush's IQ was 85 how did he get admitted to Yale and Harvard?

Secondly, an IQ of 85 is the legal definition of "retarded". Again, how did he get into Yale and Harvard?

Now for Clinton. Einstein never took an IQ test but his has been estimated to be between 160 at the low end and 180 at the high end.

Since the IQ test is an exponential yard stick the difference between the national average of 100 and 105 is far less than the difference between 170 and 175. Understand?

So in other words, you are saying that Clinton is potentially smarter than Einstien.

More

[/cyber b*tch-slapping session]

quote Originally posted by G-Nasty: FACT: The I.Q. of BUSH JR is 85. CLINTON's I.Q> is 167.

Hey G
I'd like some proof on that one. Put up or shut up!

In all honesty, I think the ratings Bars are irrelevant in O/T and GFC, and should not be used in these threads.I thought they were to judge Peoples' expertise in helping others to diagnose problems with their cars, and subsequently effect a repair to keep these great cars on the road.I have seen People state the most preposterous rubbish in these threads,unsubstantiated, wildly bent to fit their argument,and very politically biased.Politics is causing bad feeling in this community, and personal preferences are nobody elses' business.It is a very bad media to discuss Politics, namely because it takes so long to post a reply, and it takes too much space to express in writing that which can be said in 10 seconds.As a result of some peoples' attitudes, it is reflecting very badly on their ability to help others.Political comments can lead to enough People of a diametrically opposed political bias to vote a useful community Member out of the PFF.Let's have a totally separate section for People to vent their personal opinions and biases,aptly POLITICS comes to mind, and keep the two conflicting elements apart. don't have ratings bars in that section,and let people blast away at each other to their hearts content. If people do not like reading these political wars, they know not to go there!! Personally, I find SOME of the exchanges very amusing, and most provide good entertainment.
How about it Cliff? We could even call it the SINBIN!!

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: In all honesty, I think the ratings Bars are irrelevant in O/T and GFC, and should not be used in these threads.I thought they were to judge Peoples' expertise in helping others to diagnose problems with their cars, and subsequently effect a repair to keep these great cars on the road.I have seen People state the most preposterous rubbish in these threads,unsubstantiated, wildly bent to fit their argument,and very politically biased.Politics is causing bad feeling in this community, and personal preferences are nobody elses' business.It is a very bad media to discuss Politics, namely because it takes so long to post a reply, and it takes too much space to express in writing that which can be said in 10 seconds.As a result of some peoples' attitudes, it is reflecting very badly on their ability to help others.Political comments can lead to enough People of a diametrically opposed political bias to vote a useful community Member out of the PFF.Let's have a totally separate section for People to vent their personal opinions and biases,aptly POLITICS comes to mind, and keep the two conflicting elements apart. don't have ratings bars in that section,and let people blast away at each other to their hearts content. If people do not like reading these political wars, they know not to go there!! Personally, I find SOME of the exchanges very amusing, and most provide good entertainment. How about it Cliff? We could even call it the SINBIN!!

Most of us don't rate people for their political beliefs, no matter how wrong it is to be a liberal Had to get a dig in.

I don't neg people unless they violate one of 3 rules; they get personal, they use execise foul language, they disseminate false info which could hurt someone.

only speaking for me.

In my opinion, the ratings system was put in to try to squelch the constant flame wars on this forum. It has nothing to do with Fiero knowledge, nor does it have anything to do with personal politics... Positive means you are a good addition to the forum. Negative means you are a bad apple.. It is just as relavent in O/T as anywhere else.

I am sorry, Songman, but I think you are totally wrong in this case.Just because somebody has a very strong view which you vehemently oppose,you should not have the power to use a vote to back up your stand.It would appear that if a majority of PFF Members were of one Political stance, they would have the option to kick the other person out.That is NOT democratic or fair( I use the second person in general, and not referring specifically to YOU!!)The name of this Forum is Pennock's FIERO forum, which I don't think I need to point out, and as such, any other section is a byeline.That is one trait of the USA which, indisputably, gets up the nose of anybody Non American:We are more than you, We are Richer than you, We are stronger than you, so we are RIGHT.That is called Bullying.
On a personal note, if I may, YOU come across to me as a very organised, intelligent person:the photos you put up on the forum to explain things are of superior quality, and your Fiero advice seems to be on the button, which,I am sure, accounts for your positive ratings bar.Doesn't it bother you, that, if a majority were wrong, and a minority right, then the majority could therefore vote off the minority?History proves that it has happened before, and I don't doubt it will happen again.Once again,Might is Right and everything else is wrong is unacceptable, even in a minority of instances.
I am enormously worried at the flooding of European markets by good quality products, often direct copies of existing products, at a price probably below the manufacturing costs.Where from? China.They are exrememly intelligent People, dating back thousands of years before the USA even existed.They are smart enough to develop WMD to protect themselves, but use far more deadly warfare to reduce the Western World to poverty.They have cheap labour,millions of them,who live on what we consider to be poverty levels, and have to accept it.This enables them to vastly undercut Western products.And so the Manufacturers who produce items in the Western World cannot eventually compete, and the Factories go bust, mass unemployment goes through the roof,and our Financial system collapses.This is a far more deadly method of attack, and is anybody concerned, or making a big fuss?? Haven't noticed it in the headlines ...And I can't see America attacking China, can you?I wonder what the total of Chinese people living in the Western world adds up to? Imagine if China DID invade, and these "Sleepers" could be forced to attack from inside,what would be the result?You might reject this as conjecture and ridiculous, but 100 years ago so was the notion of lasers, silicon chips and space travel.This threat in my opinion, is as great, or even greater, than the current problems in the Middle East.
And finally, it seems to be a well-supported theory amongst many of the People I talk to in Europe (and in my line of work I meet thousands of people every year from all over Europe, including Russians)that if the USA did not have a time limit on the Presidency, Clinton would still be there, and George Bush would be out rounding up cattle.
fierofetish

*Pasted from below site

The study determined the following IQs of each president as accurate to within five percentage points:

147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
132 Harry Truman (D)
122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (R)
174 John F. Kennedy (D)
126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
155 Richard M. Nixon (R)
121 Gerald Ford (R)
175 James E. Carter (D)
105 Ronald Reagan (R)
098 George HW Bush (R)
182 William J. Clinton (D)
091 George W. Bush (R)
The six Republican presidents of the past 50 years had an average IQ of 115.5, with President Nixon having the highest IQ, at 155. President G. W. Bush was rated the lowest of all the Republicans with an IQ of 91. The six Democrat presidents had IQs with an average of 156, with President - Clinton having the highest IQ, at 182. President Lyndon B. Johnson was rated the lowest of all the Democrats with an IQ of 126.

No president other than Carter (D) has released his actual IQ, 176.

Among comments made concerning the specific testing of President GW Bush, his low ratings were due to his apparent difficulty to command the English language in public statements, his limited use of vocabulary (6,500 words for Bush versus an average of 11,000 words for other presidents), his lack of scholarly achievements other than a basic MBA, and an absence of any body of work which could be studied on an intellectual basis. The complete report documents the methods and procedures used to arrive at these ratings, including depth of sentence structure and voice stress confidence analysis.

"All the Presidents prior to George W. Bush had a least one book under their belt, and most had written several white papers during their education or early careers. Not so with President Bush," Dr. Lovenstein said.

"He has no published works or writings, so in many ways that made it more difficult to arrive at an assessment. We had to rely more heavily on transcripts of his unscripted public speaking."

The Lovenstein Institute of Scranton Pennsylvania think tank includes high caliber historians, psychiatrists, sociologists, scientists in human behavior, and psychologists. Among their ranks are Dr. Werner R. Lovenstein, world-renowned sociologist, and Professor Patricia F. Dilliams, a world-respected psychiatrist. This study was commissioned on February 13, 2001 and released on July 9, 2001 to subscribing member universities and organizations within the education community.

***I'll try to get a more official website. But I was told of this by my brothers wife yesterday. She is a teacher for a Houston college & debate team. I didnt beleiev it myself. This is what I came up in the past 5 minutes are these two articles. There are MANY references to a low 90 high 80 IQ to our current president. I may try to look harder but I really dont care what my archenemys on 'nocks believe.

I will say if someone can find a better site-do tell as Im starting to believe the CIA FBI Fincen SS or NSA may be involved in erasing websites & preventing Americans from knowing that Dubbya is actually part chimp. He was an experiment that went terribly wrong when NASA extracted DNA from his dad...

Sorry to bust your bubbles Toddster, butter songless, Lobotomy...

*http://www.strausplace.com/article.php?sid=626
http://www.smh.com.au/yoursay/2003/10/08/index5.html

<insert x-file music here> The truth is outhere

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I am sorry, Songman, but I think you are totally wrong in this case.Just because somebody has a very strong view which you vehemently oppose,you should not have the power to use a vote to back up your stand.It would appear that if a majority of PFF Members were of one Political stance, they would have the option to kick the other person out.That is NOT democratic or fair( I use the second person in general, and not referring specifically to YOU!!)The name of this Forum is Pennock's FIERO forum, which I don't think I need to point out, and as such, any other section is a byeline.That is one trait of the USA which, indisputably, gets up the nose of anybody Non American:We are more than you, We are Richer than you, We are stronger than you, so we are RIGHT.That is called Bullying. On a personal note, if I may, YOU come across to me as a very organised, intelligent person:the photos you put up on the forum to explain things are of superior quality, and your Fiero advice seems to be on the button, which,I am sure, accounts for your positive ratings bar.Doesn't it bother you, that, if a majority were wrong, and a minority right, then the majority could therefore vote off the minority?History proves that it has happened before, and I don't doubt it will happen again.Once again,Might is Right and everything else is wrong is unacceptable, even in a minority of instances. I am enormously worried at the flooding of European markets by good quality products, often direct copies of existing products, at a price probably below the manufacturing costs.Where from? China.They are exrememly intelligent People, dating back thousands of years before the USA even existed.They are smart enough to develop WMD to protect themselves, but use far more deadly warfare to reduce the Western World to poverty.They have cheap labour,millions of them,who live on what we consider to be poverty levels, and have to accept it.This enables them to vastly undercut Western products.And so the Manufacturers who produce items in the Western World cannot eventually compete, and the Factories go bust, mass unemployment goes through the roof,and our Financial system collapses.This is a far more deadly method of attack, and is anybody concerned, or making a big fuss?? Haven't noticed it in the headlines ...And I can't see America attacking China, can you?I wonder what the total of Chinese people living in the Western world adds up to? Imagine if China DID invade, and these "Sleepers" could be forced to attack from inside,what would be the result?You might reject this as conjecture and ridiculous, but 100 years ago so was the notion of lasers, silicon chips and space travel.This threat in my opinion, is as great, or even greater, than the current problems in the Middle East. And finally, it seems to be a well-supported theory amongst many of the People I talk to in Europe (and in my line of work I meet thousands of people every year from all over Europe, including Russians)that if the USA did not have a time limit on the Presidency, Clinton would still be there, and George Bush would be out rounding up cattle. fierofetish

Fetish, do you hear anyone saying they want people of a particular political persuasion banned? I don't. If that were the case I'm Back and 88Neverfinished would have been outta here ages ago. This guy has pissed everybody off because he is generalizing ALL Americans as murderous thugs because of some edited momentary clip of US soldiers doing what soldiers do. He uses profanity and generally stirs the pot for the sake of doing so. Who needs him? He adds no value as Songman said.

No bubble burst at all. It just highlights your gullibility and inability to identify factors relevant to performance.

Gullibility-anyone that would place much on that kind of analysis. "We'll set the criteria unilaterally, with bias, and some people will actually think this has value".

Inability to identify factors relevant to performance-if you went by this study, your conclusion SHOULD be this: if you want the best president, get the one with the lowest IQ per our rating system.

I'll give you a concrete example of your flawed thinking. I have one of the highest IQ's on PFF. Therefore, you should listen to me regarding advice on Fiero's. Because whoever is the smartest should have the best running Fiero.

That is your "logic". The REALITY is that once someone has a certain level of intelligence, then mechanical aptitude, experience and (especially in the case of Fiero's) determination become the relevant factors to success.

So if it makes you feel better to try to use biased, obviously flawed analysis and portray it as fact to make Bush appear stupid, go ahead. Many are not that gullible.

Now, how about we do an IQ analysis based on gullibility of accepting flawed analysis?

G-Nasty's IQ: ? I'll let others fill in the blank.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I am sorry, Songman, but I think you are totally wrong in this case.Just because somebody has a very strong view which you vehemently oppose,you should not have the power to use a vote to back up your stand.It would appear that if a majority of PFF Members were of one Political stance, they would have the option to kick the other person out.That is NOT democratic or fair( I use the second person in general, and not referring specifically to YOU!!)The name of this Forum is Pennock's FIERO forum, which I don't think I need to point out, and as such, any other section is a byeline.That is one trait of the USA which, indisputably, gets up the nose of anybody Non American:We are more than you, We are Richer than you, We are stronger than you, so we are RIGHT.That is called Bullying. fierofetish

Did you read my post at all? Here it is again in case you missed it with relevant parts highlighted so you won't miss them...

In my opinion, the ratings system was put in to try to squelch the constant flame wars on this forum. It has nothing to do with Fiero knowledge, nor does it have anything to do with personal politics... Positive means you are a good addition to the forum. Negative means you are a bad apple.. It is just as relavent in O/T as anywhere else.

I already said that people should not be 'voted off' because of their views. I don't see where you are misunderstanding that...

As far as Cliff deciding to name this Pennock's FIERO Forum... that is all well and good.. But he also chose to put in a section called O/T. Therefore there is room for talk other than Fieros here. Cliff never said that the ratings system was only made for rewarding helpful advice and I don't think that is what prompted him to initiate a ratings system. I think he put it in because of the ever growing percentage of flame wars. It was getting totally out of hand and not it is better. I cannot speak for Cliff, but that is how I read his actions. It is his forum and he has that right. BTW, your apparent comparison of this forum to a Democratic gov't has one flaw. This is not a Democracy. This is PENNOCK'S Fiero Forum. And if anyone doesn't like the rules they don't have to be here. I make up the rules for my house too, and guests are expected to follow them.

Right back at you on the personal note.. I have no problem with you. I see you making contributions outside of O/T which I don't see out of most people that are a constant source of trouble here. But I do think that you misread my post. I stated very plainly that I didn't think people should get negatives for their beliefs.

About China... This brings us to an interesting crossroads. China certainly has the capabilities but not the desire. Twenty years down the road they might change their mind. Twenty years ago, Iraq didn't have the desire... yet the US is still slammed for being friendly with them back then. The Middle East was the immediate threat. Threats will be handled as they arise.. We don't want to fight the world... But we will fight the ones who need it.

More B*tch-slapping:

http://www.csbsju.edu/uspp/Election/bush011401.htm

A REAL article on Presidential IQs

quote Originally posted by G-Nasty: "He has no published works or writings, so in many ways that made it more difficult to arrive at an assessment. We had to rely more heavily on transcripts of his unscripted public speaking."

So they compared the unscripted, unedited, unrevised speeches of President Bush to scripted, edited, revised speeches and books of other presidents and found that the unscripted, unedited, unrevised speeches aren't as good?

WHAT A SURPRISE!

They may be "high caliber historians, psychiatrists, sociologists, scientists in human behavior, and psychologists.", but they suck at being scientists. Rule #1 of any experiment or analysis is to eliminate all variables except for the 1 variable they are testing. In this case, the variable is the particular president. They should have compared every president's unscripted remarks.

Hey G-Spot (Only trying to sink to your 1st grade level of constantly mistyping others names because you think it somehow discredits them)...

Did you happen to read the criteria of how they based their IQ ratings?

President Bush doesn't use as many big words as other Presidents.
That's right. He's more of a common man and doesn't feel the need to use big words to try to prove his intelligence.

His speeches are shorter than other Presidents
Whoopie! Maybe he would rather get to the point instead of going around it the way certain previous Presidents were so good at. All we need is the meat, not the fluff.

Limited use of vocabulary
See the above two statements. I applaude him for speaking on a level that the common American can understand and not trying to fool us with political double talk. Maybe Ed (I'm Back) should learn from his example and not spend so much time dogging him.

Lack of scholarly achievements other than an MBA
Big deal? An MBA is plenty. So he didn't want to be a lifetime student. I know plenty of 30 year old college students who have never done anything in their life and never will. You'll have to do better than that.

and an absence of any body of work which could be studied on an intellectual basis.
Ahhhhh... so they really had nothing to base his intelligence on so this study is worthless... Had he been writing books about how great he is like previous Presidents, then they could have accurately rated him... But just because they couldn't accurately rate him, by theor own admission, didn't keep them from posting it or you from believing it... only because it fits what you wanted to believe.

I'm questioning your IQ since this bogus website has President Bush at 91 but somehow that decreased to 85 in your original post. Amazing how you change your 'facts' to suit your argument... At least some things are consistent...

Eagle one to birds nest:
Enemy is flustered
Im holding down the fort...looking for cover...where my boyz at?
FieroMAd,JeffMN Im Back 88neverFin and Eric bullets are flying--need cover pronto OVER;
Too many bogies not enough ammo...or TIME to INFORM or bicker w/ these morons
Repeat:
Dumbasses on my tail
Somebody else hose them down
I'm gettin too old for this ****

BTW: I just found out my property taxes doubled this year-thank you repubs!!!

I'll stand by the low 90 IQ.

Hi Songman!!
Yes, I did read your post fully, and I was not,as I pointed out, indicting you personally:I don't think you would do that, and that is why I made the point about Second Person.But I don't doubt there are others out their who would.You might also have noticed that I gave Carlc a negative previously, and disowned His comments as totally deranged.I could take exception to your Schoolmaster-pupil opening to your reply,but don't.I should imagine that I left School a lot earlier than you!!
Regarding the Fiero Forum issue, I don't accept your opinion that T/OT is a fundemental of the Forum, because I believe it is Cliff's brainchild!!I doubt very much that T/OT was the beginning, and Fieros were an offshoot:more likely the reverse,and so it appears that Fieros are the backbone of the Forum. If, however, Cliff confirms your comments, I shall be perfectly happy to concede, although I still think this type of thread should be without rating bars, for the reasons I have already stated. I am the last to denigrate the USA:it has always been my dream to live there, but I guess there are plenty enough poor musicians there without me adding to the complement.My interests listed in my profile are :all things American!!
China: I think they are too clever to invade the West, not a question of desire.Their method does not destroy and lay waste the wonderful resources that are to be found here.Unfortunately, War rends to devastate the assaulted Lands,leaving them unusable, or in need of enormous financial expenditure to return them to there former state of usability.
And so, to finish,I would also like to state that the opinions presented in my postings are a representation of many opinions expressed to me over the years, and not necessarily mine too!!I believe in being polite, as I hope this comes across, and I do value other peoples opinions,even if I don't accept them necessarily.You can only learn from them!!But, I do think belittling People's opinions does nothing constructive.Again,this is not directed at you personally, so please don't take it that way!!
If I am proved wrong, I will always put up my hands and say"I was wrong!!"
(refer to the Buddycraigg thread "speaker polarity"..of which I know you are aware!!!)
Thanks for listening, and being objective.
fierofetish

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 12-19-2003).]

quote Originally posted by G-Nasty: Eagle one to birds nest: Enemy is flustered Im holding down the fort...looking for cover...where my boyz at? FieroMAd,JeffMN Im Back 88neverFin and Eric bullets are flying--need cover pronto OVER; Too many bogies not enough ammo...or TIME to INFORM or bicker w/ these morons Repeat: Dumbasses on my tail Somebody else hose them down I'm gettin too old for this **** BTW: I just found out my property taxes doubled this year-thank you repubs!!! I'll stand by the low 90 IQ.

Funny...my property taxes went down and have been continually going down sinc GB took office. And I have around 40 acres of real estate (8 1/2 home property valued mid 6 digits in value...35 acres pasture land across the highway 5 digit....and 8 - 10 acres in the country again valued in the 5 digit arena).

Last year I paid well over $6K in property taxes all together. This year, due is a little over $4K...$2K less then last year.

In addition, I'm expecting yet another income tax refund for the second year in a row. Couldn't say that under the Clinton years...

Yep...way to go REPUBS!

No offense, and I didn't mean to sound condescending to you in my earlier post either. If it came across that way to you, my apologies..

Maybe it is a language barrier or just a wording barrier, but I also didn't say that the O/T section was fundamental to the forum and in no way did I say that the O/T section came first and the Fiero section later.. What I did say is that they are both inventions of one Cliff Pennock and he makes the rules here... This section, without his moderation and the subsequent ratings system, would become like an Old West Saloon and the fights would carry over into, and ruin, the rest of the Forum. That's kinda like saying we are going to have law in every state in the US except for Ohio.. If you want to be a jerk go do it there.. But when you leave Ohio you have to forget that idiot that stuck the knife in your back in Ohio and not let that effect your actions in other states... The Forum is an entity as a whole... One section cannot be separated from the others in that way.

You are correct in that I can't speak for everyone on the forum about how they use the ratings system... nor can I assume that all of the people who say they only give negatives to people for going over the line are telling the truth... but on the other hand, you can't do the reverse of that... But what I can do is tell you that this Forum is a much better place since the ratings bar was put in place... There has to be a set of rules with known consequences. The lack of that is why most internet chatrooms are do overrun with little jerks causing trouble. Sitting safely at home starting crap because there is no chance for retaliation. Cliff's ratings system at least let people know that they could lose the right to participate here if they chose to stay on the wrong side of the law... It takes a whole lot before Cliff pushes the BAN button, as is already in evidence. I only wish that once it was pushed it would stay pushed. I think the 'second chance' comes when you see your bar clinking red. By the time you are totally banned I believe your chances are used up and you shouldn't be allowed back... I haven't seen changes in anyone who has come back to make me think the second chance changed them at all...

I see that G-Nasty responded as would be expected though.. He stands by the remark that he made although it has been proven repeatedly to be wrong... He calls names and offers no real substance to the discussion at hand... Yet this is the man(?) who is questioning the President's IQ! hahaha

Yep!! I am only a "Ginny come lately" on this Forum, and accept that you have been here quite a while,and therefore your experience of things before must prevail!! As I said, I am very willing to learn, and have been at the Best University in the World for 57 years:Life!!
The only compaint I have about PFF: my Wife is sick of me sitting in my "DEN",for hours on end, running up huge phone bills, and occasionally laughing like a madman!!
Cheers!!
fierofetish
PS. One thing does perturb me: I see an awful lot of names posting here, but consultation with the "Pennock's Supporters" section shows a rather sad lack of contributions:guess I would be more inclined to accept some of the attitudes here if their names appeared in that section with the same frequency...why didn't my November contribution show up?!!

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 12-19-2003).]

quote Originally posted by G-Nasty: I'll stand by the low 90 IQ.

Then that just shows how completely biased you are. The REAL article above actually lists JFK's IQ as 119 (that is confirmed!). It also estimates GWB's IQ (based on a correlation of his 1206 SAT score to known IQ ratios) as...drum roll please...119! The same as JFK.

Since the IQ is a measure of mental age and chronological age times 100, his IQ may be higher (125 possibly, according to the article) due to the fact that he took the SAT test so long ago.

For those of you remotely interested in knowing your own IQ try this thread:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/018876.html

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Yep!! I am only a "Ginny come lately" on this Forum, and accept that you have been here quite a while,and therefore your experience of things before must prevail!! As I said, I am very willing to learn, and have been at the Best University in the World for 57 years:Life!! The only compaint I have about PFF: my Wife is sick of me sitting in my "DEN",for hours on end, running up huge phone bills, and occasionally laughing like a madman!! Cheers!! fierofetish PS. One thing does perturb me: I see an awful lot of names posting here, but consultation with the "Pennock's Supporters" section shows a rather sad lack of contributions:guess I would be more inclined to accept some of the attitudes here if their names appeared in that section with the same frequency...why didn't my November contribution show up?!!

Lord knows how many times I am in trouble for spending too much time here on the forum, working on my Fiero websites, and planning or attending Fiero activities! Rie was seriously hating Fieros there for a while... Hopefully this new 3100 that I am fixing up for her will get her back in love with the little cars...

Toddster
My My aren't we the sharp one!

G
Shot Down in a blaze of sh......

You are too much, G-Nasty.

YOU post something TOTALLY stupid, then you claim "dumbasses on my tail".

The "enemy is flustered". Only at the stupidity of your post.

"Not enough ammo...", well, you got that part right.

"I'll stand by the low 90 IQ." More of a reflection of your IQ than Bush's.

"I'm gettin too old for this ****". YOU threw the **** out. No surprise you stepped in it.