According to news reports, it is military procedure to drop a grenade into a unknown subterranean environment before entering. But Saddam scurried out of his hole faster than a republican could scream “YES”, and the wheels of politics exploded into place. The amount of time, energy, expense, and world politics that will soon begin may even have the most ardent anti-death penalty advocate soon wishing Saddam hadn’t scurried out of his hole quite so quickly.
What bears mentioning is that Iraq is not our country, we don’t own it, nor do we govern it. While Saddam is accused of the deaths of many Americans, I think we have to remember that before Americans became involved he was already responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of his own countrymen. Some may also believe that Iraqians aren’t up to the task of prosecuting their former leader. However, who better to try him than the very people his tyranny impacted the most. I am not familiar with Iranian law (which I’ll assume is based on Muslim religion), but I would imagine that the hardest task that will be facing a defense team will be finding people that lives weren’t negatively impacted by his inhuman treatment.
If we believe that American stands for democracy and we believe in self-government then we have to put those beliefs into action. One way to do that is by having faith in the Iranians people ability to conduct a trial of their former dictator. How best to carry out that mission is the question. How do you ensure a fair trial, without appearing to be controlling it. The only way I can think of is by participating in a security capacity. But even that could be (will be) misinterpreted by some Iranians. Regardless, we have to find a way let Iraqians know we want them to control their own destiny, without imposing our will or culture. Otherwise, it helps cement the belief by many Iranians that Americans are imperialistic infidels who deserve to die.
[This message has been edited by ChopTop (edited 12-18-2003).]
1) He had no army left 2) His country was starving 3) The whole world hated his ass for the Kurd incident 4) He was a "socialist" dictator in the middle of a bunch of strict right-wing fundamentalists. At sea in a liferaft?
All he had *OSTENSIBLY* was a few drums of gas, with no practical means to deliver it. ANYWHERE.
I know *I* was quaking in my boots these last 13 years
You want global threat? Talk to Korea.
Your beloved United Nations strongly disagreed with you.
And surely you're not going to discount or deny the Middle East and it's fundamentalist Islamics as the prime source of global terrorism, are you? Only time will tell whether our activities in Iraq will help bring stability to the region and show others that we, the US, will no longer tolerate the sponsoring of terrorism and are in fact prepared to do something about nations that choose to engage in it.
[This message has been edited by BN Boomer (edited 12-17-2003).]
Ahhhh... okay guys... I get it.. I realize, and never said any differently, that they weren't actual residents of North Carolina! haha
But for reasons that they decided, they gave Kitty Hawk, NC the honor of the first powered flight.. Quit nitpiking my words.. We are in agreement. This is not a North/South issue. I AM TALKING ABOUT FLYING.
And Steve, what the hell is IMS?
Sorry, these posts were more for Toddster than you.
If Memory Serves
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03:52 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
I'm sure he meant Iraq instead of Iran in all of that...
Funny thing is though that most of us Imperialistic Infidels would love to see him left to the barbarian laws of the Middle East. The bleeding hearts here are the ones saying that we shouldn't kill him... I don't think WE will kill him, but if left to the people of the region I would suspect that he would diea very tortured death...
Somehow I don't see how we Americans become the bad guy if Saddam Hussein dies... Oh yes I do! We're the Americans! We are always the bad guys!
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03:53 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
The reason was relatively simple, the aircraft couldn't fly fast enough on it's own to generate sufficient lift. Kill Devil Hill was known for it's steady, strong winds. Not terribly gusty, and something they could plan for. The first flight was done on a day the winds were particularly favorable, not because they picked the day in advance.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Songman:
I can't tell you exactly what the Wrights were thinking since I was not there but I can tell you what history says...
The grassy hill and surrounding land at Kill Devil Hills is significant as the site of Orville and Wilbur Wrights' glider and powered flight experiments in the early 1900s and especially as the site of the now generally recognized first powered flight of December 17, 1903.
I'm Back keeps saying he wouldn't trade Hussein for 400 American lives, and the financial bill. Conveniently not stating that there were other benefits to the war than getting Hussein.
You keep stating error as if it is fact. I don't know if you just have that short of a memory or if it is selective intentionally to be deceptive. But the war was never stated for "the singular reason of finding WOMD". So to base this as a failure because the "singular reason" wasn't accomplished is an error from the beginning.
Bush is "without a doubt the dumbest U.S. president". Based on what criteria other than your fertile imagination? Educational achievement? You seem to love that criteria otherwise. Accomplishment? The ONLY thing you can criticize him on his on his verbal expression skills. You prefer a slick talker with no substance or accomplishment-like Clinton.
And Clinton. He demonstrated resolve by "weathering an impeachment". By lying and deceiving and delaying. By weathering what he brought on himself by perjuring himself. Brave, noble man that is.
Oh, but he tried to get socialized medicine as vs. the elitist medicine I practice. That just demonstrates ignorance. I do internal medicine. About half the people I see are on medicare. Uhhh, that IS socialized medicine.
More hypocrisy. You would "level a nation", yet people who think justice for a mass murderer like Hussein would be to have him killed are "blood-thirsty". That's consistent.
You wonder why to engage in a war with irrational people. Uh, I don't know. Maybe because they attacked us? Maybe because they support people that do attack us?
Ooh, but war sends disproportionately larger amounts of lower socioeconomic class people into the battle. That makes it automatically morally unjust. That is your typical class warfare, just like calling me an elitist doctor. You just cannot imagine that someone in this country could start in a lower socioeconomic class, avail himself of the opportunities this country has, reach a higher socioeconomic class, and then not forget where he came from. More projection by you. Just because apparently YOU couldn't do it, doesn't mean I can't. Last I recalled, it is still a volunteer army. Let's see if you have the balls to insult the soldier's intellect and say they were just forced to the army because of the lack of other opportunities in this country, and couldn't help being duped into it.
Bush catching world criticism. No kidding. THAT doesn't bother him, it bothers you. Criticism from France? Germany? Russia? If you can't figure out why they would criticize, you are hopeless. What I can't figure out, is why you would care if they criticize us. Oh, well look at the criticism from the Canadians or the British for example. Yeah, there are liberals in those countries too. Surprise. They were wrong, too.
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07:24 PM
PFF
System Bot
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
"From a legal stand point America has the responsibility to try him since we occupy the country."
"legal stand point," or legal standpoint? Not real good from a self-appointed antique book salesman and person seeking a Master's Degree, who is actually a book cover salesman. Besides, the term would be, 'jurisdiction.' The real question here is, 'When have we ever been concerned with jurisdiction?'
"Morally, we have to responsibility too."
Since this war is largely about religion, the morality of this is a legitimate question to pose. But, it appears that responsibility is not a component to the reason we are there. We are there because we can.
"The worst thing that can happen is to leave it to the Iraqis. Does Mussolini's death come to mind?"
Large differences, in that Italy actually declared war on the US, whereas terrorism came from that region, not necessarily from Iraq specifically.
"Worse still is that the sanctimonious SOB might actually become a martyr."
Saddam means and has meant zero to this issue. More countries/people hate us there than enjoy us, so one person doesn't change things a bit. Only way to change that, short of killing them all, is to build ethnocentric camps, as we did with the American Indians. We made them change their culture or be jailed/killed.
"Although I am a proponent of Capital Punishment I do not see it as an effective solution in this case. I want Hussein to suffer the indignity that John Gotti is suffering."
See, this is where you really hurt your argument that you are such an educated person. Maybe you haven't heard, but Gotti died a little while ago. I know, kind of obscure news, but he did die in prison. Sure, sure, that’s what you meant. So Gotti is suffering no more, and yes, Saddam should rot in prison too.
"The Big Bad Bully is reduced a gelatinous mass of quivering fear and loathing. On stage for all the world to see. An example of what will become of you if you choose this path in life."
All those words to define the concept of general deterrence. An educated person would have easily condensed that paragraph into two words, as they would have realized that deterrence, general and specific, has not been proven to be effective in the cessation or declination of crime. What it really is is justified retribution, at least justified by the proponents of it. As for being public, punishment used to be, but now inmates are warehoused so as to have no voice.
If terrorism ceases forever then you are right, but if it continues at about the same rate, the jailing/killing of Saddam or any tyrant does nothing but to incapacitate that person, which is necessary. For the flag waving and hysteria about having the tyrant quivering; nah, he's just waiting to die as more terrorists are brought up waiting to kill Americans.
"No. I don't want Saddam executed. I want him to be forced to watch video of his victims families talking about their missing loved ones 12 hours a day for the rest of his life."
I thought you wanted him punished not entertained.
"I want him to get bufu'd in the shower by some guy named "Tank"."
So you promote homosexuality?????
"I want to have cable introduce the SADDAM Channel where you can tune in and watch him rot in a cell 24 hours a day."
That might help FOX, otherwise pretty boring.
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07:35 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
1) As a POW? 2) As a war criminal? 3) Or as a former leader charged with crimes against humanity?
Each one would obviously fall under different juristictions as to whom could try him based on how he is subsequently charged.
Being as IRAQ doesn't have "Capital Punishment", as of right now that is, of course, there is debate whether or not they will enact this within their country by next year, I say we turn him over to the Iraqian people for his just deserve.
We in the meantime, take the back seat (and continue to act as guards/protectors to ensure he goes to trial) and allow his people to punish him accordingly to the horrific crimes in which he committed against his own as well as neighboring people. I feel this would also give the people a sense of resolve knowing they no longer have to fear Sadam and his affiliated party and see that they now control the outcome, not him.
Real good question that actually brings this thread back on track. I see #2 or #3 could easily work. Actually, he could be tried as both I imagine, especially in different jurisdictions.
Doesn't it make you wonder about American humanity when a piss-hole country like Iraq doesn't have capital punishment and we do?
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07:44 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35467 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Saddam can only truly be tried by the people of his nation, and only they can truly decide what his fate should be. I say we just turn him over to them, once we get all the information we can from him. Im sure if we let him know this he will sing like a canary and try and cut a deal for a world tribunal. This would guarantee he doesn't get the death penalty. He deserves to be used and then handed over to his people.
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07:44 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
Saddams considerable wealth and power was a thorn for U.S. policies & globalization. He did not fall in line with our modern day monarchy NWO and WTO schemes. That North Korean evil-doer leader could be next.
GNasty History lesson: Alexander the great conquered much of the 'then' civilized world, driven by his divine ambition of world conquest and the creation of a universal 'world monarchy'. Sound familiar? (ie: RICH PEOPLE) He brought Greek ideas, culture and life style to the countries which he conquered, and assured expansion and domination of Hellenistic Culture which, together with Roman Civilization and Christianity, constitutes the foundation of what is now called Western Civilization.
"That North Korean evil-doer leader could be next."
Never happen - we don't screw with people that have nukes. We'll stick to beating up non-industrialized 3rd world countries, thank you.
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07:47 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
Wait, I was born in Washington State, traveled the South Pacific and the states.....OMG, where am I from? I know, I'm American; why do we need segregation?
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07:49 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
Better check out Kitty Hawk and Kill Devil Hill in North Carolina for the first flight.. The Wrights may have been born in Ohio but had the good sense to move to North Carolina...
And you had the good sense to move to California. If SC is better, why live in Cali? I'm not saying which is better, just examining your logic. As an aircraft mechanic, I work with people from all over the country and hear the argument that it's best from where they came, yet they're not there any longer.
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07:52 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Tell the hundreds of thousands in the mass graves that Iraq didn't have capital punishment. What a foolish thing to say. Since the new government's constitution and legal system isn't even fully developed yet, you don't have the slightest idea if they will have capital punishment or not.
Maybe you should just trot on over there and help them figure it all out. Seems the least you can do is to share with them some of your infinite wisdom. Particularly with such an inclusive demeanor as yours to call them a "p**s-hole country". Never mind that the civilization there has predated yours by a couple of thousand years..........
Take your time wiping that egg off your liberal face.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by I'm Back:
Doesn't it make you wonder about American humanity when a piss-hole country like Iraq doesn't have capital punishment and we do?
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07:56 PM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
People always have to throw Korea up... I'm not saying Korea is any better... We can't do everything at once though... Our immediate threat came from the Middle East... But you just watch.. When we do go after Korea, the same ones who were saying "Why not Korea instead of Iraq?" will be using the same arguments they used for us not being in Iraq...
And yes, I do believe that... If he had no army left, who have we been fighting? Yes, his people were starving, while he was sitting there stockpiling money to be used for bigger, badder weapons. Yes, the whole world hated him, yet he still had the UN protecting him and saying 'let's wait a little longer' all the while more people were dying. And all it takes is one nut with a mis-guided dream and some financing to turn the world upside down.
Yeah... That's all Bin Laden had too... Have you seen the hole where the WTC used to be?
That is not a jab against Canada. I am safely here while I am being protected as well... The people in the WTC thought they were safe and protected too.. That is why they weren't quaking... Too bad that they had to die as part of our wake-up call that you apparently missed.
"You know why you weren't quaking.. Because you are safely in Canada while other people are protecting you.."
Canada doesn't need protecting because they don't stick their noses in everyone's business. Ok, if I'm a terrorist, I'm going to look for people that are pissing me off. Voila, the US is the biggest intruder of the world; let's go screw with them. No one gets a fuzzy feeling bombing Canada or Switzerland, but they feel a sense of revenge when they screw with who screws with them.
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07:56 PM
ceo Member
Posts: 306 From: Wichita Ks USA Registered: Sep 2003
And you had the good sense to move to California. If SC is better, why live in Cali? I'm not saying which is better, just examining your logic. As an aircraft mechanic, I work with people from all over the country and hear the argument that it's best from where they came, yet they're not there any longer.
I never lived in SC.. I was born in Georgia. Lived in Tennessee, Florida, Missouri, California, and Texas... with brief stays in Arkansas and North Carolina.. Bakersfield is the 'Nashville West' of the country music business. I'll go back home eventually. I didn't come to California to stay.
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10:29 PM
PFF
System Bot
Dec 18th, 2003
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Canada doesn't need protecting because they don't stick their noses in everyone's business. Ok, if I'm a terrorist, I'm going to look for people that are pissing me off. Voila, the US is the biggest intruder of the world; let's go screw with them. No one gets a fuzzy feeling bombing Canada or Switzerland, but they feel a sense of revenge when they screw with who screws with them.
A more boneheaded comment I haven't heard in weeks. Canada doea not need protecting because Canada does not have anything anybody wants! No offense to Canadians, but what natural resources does it have? How about climate? Cultural links to the land? Nada.
The US on the other hand has more natural resources than any other country on Earth, we have the best climate, the most prosperous people and industry and a NEW culture based on individual freedom.
THAT is why we are a target. It is called the "Tall Poppy" syndrome. You don't like the tall poppy reaching higher than you so instead of lifting YOUR game to improve yourself, you cut down the tall poppy to lower HIS game to your level in order to feel better about yourself.
America is the Tall Poppy. We work more hours each year than ANY other people in the world. we are more creative, we are more industrious. We are risk takers. And that is the reason others with weaker minds and will power are jealous.
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12:53 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
But George Washington Carver WAS a southerner. He invented Peanut Butter and I'm "sticking" to that story.
I know he found hundreds (thousands?) of uses for the peanut, but I'm not sure peanut butter was one of them. Did he also invent the honey roasted nut?
PS. Trivia Question: How and why did he get the middle name of Washington?
Edit: Corrected Major Brain Malfunctions.
[This message has been edited by Steve Normington (edited 12-18-2003).]
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12:58 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
I know he found hundreds (thousands?) of uses for the peanut, but I'm not sure peanut butter was one of them. Did he also invent the honey roasted nut?
PS. Trivia Question: How and why did he get the middle name of Washington?
Edit: Corrected Major Brain Malfunctions.
Yes, Peanut Butter was one of his 325 inventions. But I do not know where Washington came from. I guess I just assumed it have something to do with the first President. What is the answer?
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01:06 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
A more boneheaded comment I haven't heard in weeks. Canada doea not need protecting because Canada does not have anything anybody wants! No offense to Canadians, but what natural resources does it have? How about climate? Cultural links to the land? Nada.
How about the second largest reserve of oil in the world? Not to mention timber or gold.
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01:06 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
How about the second largest reserve of oil in the world? Not to mention timber or gold.
you mean 21st largest oil reserves in the world. Not very much. They, in fact, import most of their oil. Gold? eh, they have some but again, not much relative to most other producers. Timber? Ya got me. They have S*** loads of it. Pulp and paper are their biggest industries.
Let's mobilize the army! It's all about PAPER!
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01:18 PM
GARY TUCKER Member
Posts: 694 From: OOLTEWAH, TENNESSEE Registered: Oct 2003
you mean 21st largest oil reserves in the world. Not very much. They, in fact, import most of their oil. Gold? eh, they have some but again, not much relative to most other producers. Timber? Ya got me. They have S*** loads of it. Pulp and paper are their biggest industries.
Note that some sources don't consider Canada's oil sand to be part of the reserve. But this estimate includes oil that is recoverable using current technology.
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02:50 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Yes, Peanut Butter was one of his 325 inventions. But I do not know where Washington came from. I guess I just assumed it have something to do with the first President. What is the answer?
It was from the first President, but it was not GWC's given name. There were two George Carvers in a town where he lived. They kept getting each other's mail, so he added Washington as a middle name.
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02:52 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Note that some sources don't consider Canada's oil sand to be part of the reserve. But this estimate includes oil that is recoverable using current technology.
No disrespect but you mean 21st, unless the terrorists planning to invade Canada have technology beyond our own.
Just because it is technically possible in a laboratory to get more oil does not mean that it is economically viable. By that definition the US has 4 times the oil reserves that we actually have. Canada's PROVEN oil reserves are about 5.1 billion Barrels, just ahead of the UK.
Proven Reserves is defined as: "This entry is the stock of proved reserves of crude oil in barrels (bbl). Proved reserves are those quantities of petroleum which, by analysis of geological and engineering data, can be estimated with a high degree of confidence to be commercially recoverable from a given date forward, from known reservoirs and under current economic conditions."- the World Fact Book
I'll agree however that investment into extraction methods is a worthwhile venture. Maybe in 20-30 years we can get at it profitably.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 12-18-2003).]
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03:20 PM
PFF
System Bot
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Just because it is technically possible in a laboratory to get more oil does not mean that it is economically viable. By that definition the US has 4 times the oil reserves that we actually have. Canada's PROVEN oil reserves are about 5.1 billion Barrels, just ahead of the UK.
Proven Reserves is defined as: "This entry is the stock of proved reserves of crude oil in barrels (bbl). Proved reserves are those quantities of petroleum which, by analysis of geological and engineering data, can be estimated with a high degree of confidence to be commercially recoverable from a given date forward, from known reservoirs and under current economic conditions."- the World Fact Book
I'll agree however that investment into extraction methods is a worthwhile venture. Maybe in 20-30 years we can get at it profitably.
You'd better tell these guys that. They seem to think they they are making a profit selling oil extracted from the oil sand reserve.
[This message has been edited by Steve Normington (edited 12-18-2003).]
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04:17 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
Just because there is a business that wants to extract it doesn't mean you can count it as part of the national reserve... Once they get it in barrels, then it can be counted.
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 12-18-2003).]
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04:19 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
You mean other than Oil, Lumber, Natural Gas, Fertile Farmland, two Ocean Coasts, a highly developed infrastructure and political system, and some of the nicest people in the world? I guess other than that, nothing much.
Canada doesn't have a strong military and doesn't need one because of natural barriers to attack. The arctic up north an ocean to the east, and the US to the south and west. That's OK, if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't be spending 3.5% of my GDP on the military either at that time. I do think that they need a stronger military than they have, but I also believe that in the not too distant future the Canadians will also realize that and modernize and update their military. I doubt that they like the situation they're in very much right now.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
A more boneheaded comment I haven't heard in weeks. Canada doea not need protecting because Canada does not have anything anybody wants! No offense to Canadians, but what natural resources does it have? How about climate? Cultural links to the land? Nada.
The US on the other hand has more natural resources than any other country on Earth, we have the best climate, the most prosperous people and industry and a NEW culture based on individual freedom.
THAT is why we are a target. It is called the "Tall Poppy" syndrome. You don't like the tall poppy reaching higher than you so instead of lifting YOUR game to improve yourself, you cut down the tall poppy to lower HIS game to your level in order to feel better about yourself.
America is the Tall Poppy. We work more hours each year than ANY other people in the world. we are more creative, we are more industrious. We are risk takers. And that is the reason others with weaker minds and will power are jealous.
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05:39 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
You'd better tell these guys that. They seem to think they they are making a profit selling oil extracted from the oil sand reserve.
Syncrude, yeah I've heard of them. They make low grade heating oil. It can only be used for industrial and home heating applications due to the high content of solids and impurities. Gasoline for your car? No way. They still have years of research ahead of them to make that dream a reality. But I'm all for it! If they can find a way to remove most of the particulates in a commercially viable way then Canada is going to have an economic beast on it's hands.
The point of my email remains intact, why would anyone want to pick on Canada? OR Australia, New Zealand, Chile, for that matter. They make their contributions to the world economy but on the grand scheme of things they are "also rans". The US gets the headlines and THAT is why the US is a target. All this talk about the US being attacked because we are "meddling" in other countries business is pure hogwash. The US is attacked because we are visible. And visibility is what these nut cases want.
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05:59 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Just because there is a business that wants to extract it doesn't mean you can count it as part of the national reserve... Once they get it in barrels, then it can be counted.
They don't want to extract it, they are extracting it. 13% of Canada's oil comes from this company. And they seem to be commercially viable. By Toddster's quoted definition, oil that is commerial recoverable counts as reserves. And the national reserve is not just what is in barrels, it includes known oil still in the ground.
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06:04 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Syncrude, yeah I've heard of them. They make low grade heating oil. It can only be used for industrial and home heating applications due to the high content of solids and impurities. Gasoline for your car? No way. They still have years of research ahead of them to make that dream a reality. But I'm all for it! If they can find a way to remove most of the particulates in a commercially viable way then Canada is going to have an economic beast on it's hands.
According to this they are making gasoline. Even if they are not, 13% of all petroleum needs is no small potatoes. My point is that they are producting signifigant quantities of oil from oil sand, making oil sand a viable oil source. This would put Canada at #2 in terms of oil reserves.
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06:08 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
I guess it is a good thing that I am not in the oil business because I don't know how to tell how much is still in the ground. You always hear stories about dry wells where people think there is oil but there is none... To me PROVEN means I can see it but I'll take your word for it... Bottom line is that we have two sets of FACTS. Both seem credible, but both say very different things.. both by different gov't agencies. One does agree with the other one that Canada's reserve is 5.2 until you add in what Alberta says it has in the oil sands... Does the US have oil sands? Do other countries? If so, I guess we have to add those in as well to get a true ratings system.
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06:09 PM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
A more boneheaded comment I haven't heard in weeks. Canada doea not need protecting because Canada does not have anything anybody wants! No offense to Canadians, but what natural resources does it have? How about climate? Cultural links to the land? Nada.
The US on the other hand has more natural resources than any other country on Earth, we have the best climate, the most prosperous people and industry and a NEW culture based on individual freedom.
THAT is why we are a target. It is called the "Tall Poppy" syndrome. You don't like the tall poppy reaching higher than you so instead of lifting YOUR game to improve yourself, you cut down the tall poppy to lower HIS game to your level in order to feel better about yourself.
America is the Tall Poppy. We work more hours each year than ANY other people in the world. we are more creative, we are more industrious. We are risk takers. And that is the reason others with weaker minds and will power are jealous.
Are you nuts?!? The ENTIRE US economy is based on import and high-level manufacturing. The US doesn't HAVE any natural resources left. Resource extraction barely registers in your economy. OUR economy, on the other hand, hinges more than 35% on resource extraction.
Canada, has more oil, more available forest, more available minerals, fresh water, building land, arable land, and marine resources than most two countries put together. You DO know we are the 2nd largest in terms of Land Mass, right? :rolleyese:
Your post is just plain offensive, mate.
1) You don't know what you are talking about. 2) You make really dumb generalizations. 3) You are degrading my country.
Therefore: You suck
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06:11 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
I guess it is a good thing that I am not in the oil business because I don't know how to tell how much is still in the ground. You always hear stories about dry wells where people think there is oil but there is none... To me PROVEN means I can see it but I'll take your word for it... Bottom line is that we have two sets of FACTS. Both seem credible, but both say very different things.. both by different gov't agencies. One does agree with the other one that Canada's reserve is 5.2 until you add in what Alberta says it has in the oil sands... Does the US have oil sands? Do other countries? If so, I guess we have to add those in as well to get a true ratings system.
If other countries have them, either they aren't significant or they haven't been explored very well. I don't think they'd include the oil sand from one country and not the oil sands from other countries. As far as the different sets of facts from different agencies, I'd guess that the CIA has a different level of proof before they consider what is and is not viable oil reserves.
Finally made it through this entire thread...
