This summer I will be deploying. Although at this point I'm not really allowed to tell where, its a "relatively" safe area. My wife and I are figuring what to do with the money; Other than paying off my G6 GTP and getting her a Juke (or something) I'd like to get my Fiero redone, and preferably done before I come back home. Here's what I'm working with, and what I'd like:

-1988 Fiero Coupe 147k
-Dead 4cyl (parents ran it out of oil)
-Rebuilt 3spd trans
-Needs new sail section (of which I have 2 to use)
-Been sitting for 5 years.
-Stock spoiler added, but mounts are cracked.
-GT steering wheel

Oh, I'm in Kansas City, and the Fiero is in NE Ohio

What I know I want, or ideas

-British Racing Green (ie Lotus or Aston Martin use this color)
-Engine swap (either V6 or V8)
-Tranny change (obviously)... I'd really like to have a manual, but I hear its really expensive to change over?
-New, bigger brakes
-Better suspension
-Different rims, but nothing super-over stated. Black.
-Warber hood (from Archie) or something similar to reduce air-buildup in the hood
-The interior needs to be redone. Seats are old, corners of the dash are torn up, etc. But I'm willing to wait on that, based on budget, to get the hardware installed first
-Possibly install the GT ground effects? I'd rather keep my Notchie, but wouldn't mind new body bits.

So, I'm wondering if there's a shop, or shops, that are capable and willing to do such work without massive amounts of input from me? I'm not sure how good the internet will be where I'm going, so I won't be able to give regular instruction. I do love what Archie did with car's such as Curly's cut fastback.

I won't be able to source an engine or trans because I will be at least an ocean away. I'm not really picky on engines just yet; I'd like to have at least 230+hp. The 3.6 V6 in my GTP is phenomenal, and wouldn't be bad (252hp), and the 6spd Auto trans isn't bad either. But nothing can beat the feel of a V8 rumble.

.....Plus I want to be able to keep up with my wife's go-fast car (1965 Mustang Coupe, 289 bored past 302, and all the hi-po parts you can think of).

I'm really needing some advice. Who should I go to?

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Happiness is not around the corner. It is the corner.

An onramp is a terrible thing to waste.

"The greatest risk is not taking one" -AIG Commercial

What is your budget? Seriously. I ask because most Fiero-friendly engine swap places are easily going to charge $6,000-$10,000+ for an engine swap. A bit of a double whammy because you're starting with a four cylinder also, which typically adds additional work to the majority of popular swaps.

Wanting to do things and what you want to spend to have those things done are entirely different things. Also you have to consider importance. Body mods are nice, but I'd rather have a good Fiero that runs and drives and works correctly, then work from there. Body and fancy wheels can wait.

quote Originally posted by brotherhood_of_nod: What I know I want, or ideas -British Racing Green (ie Lotus or Aston Martin use this color) -Engine swap (either V6 or V8) -Tranny change (obviously)... I'd really like to have a manual, but I hear its really expensive to change over? -New, bigger brakes -Better suspension -Different rims, but nothing super-over stated. Black. -Warber hood (from Archie) or something similar to reduce air-buildup in the hood -The interior needs to be redone. Seats are old, corners of the dash are torn up, etc. But I'm willing to wait on that, based on budget, to get the hardware installed first -Possibly install the GT ground effects? I'd rather keep my Notchie, but wouldn't mind new body bits.

Yeah, I'm aware of the potential cost. Budget negotiations are ongoing, lol, but possibly around 15k. I agree, function is primary over form. The sail section does need to be replaced; I smacked my Fiero into a guard rail when i was 17, and we just un-professionally tried to fiberglass it...its all pockmarked and such.

I mentioned new wheels, because I assumed the stock wheels couldn't fit better brakes.

I'm iffy on whether I really want the GT effects or not. I really do like the concept of a sleeper... I'm just worried about stability at 80mph.

Does it absolutely have to be your current car? There are lots of cars for sale for half of what you are proposing to spend that are close to being done, rather than starting from scratch, paying for a ton of labor, and having to deal with the grief of fly-by-night Fiero parts verndors..

What about picking up a nice car like this and put a proper motor into it? https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/060701.html This way you still add a finishing touch, but aren't looking around for every single part, especially from overseas, screwing around with delayed or missing shipments, and having your car tied up in a stranger's shop for months?

There are lots of 5 spd 88 cars for sale that are rust free in the $5-6k range.

p.s. a stock fiero with a fresh suspension and good tires is perfectly stable at 80 mph without hood scoop gimmicks. At around 100 mph, the front does start to float a bit, but it is questionable to drive such old technology at such speeds anyway....

Just my 2 cents

[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 02-18-2012).]

I will be sending you a email about possible options, I am in Kansas City, and getting me a building built, and should have a 3800sc rolling out to its owner just as summer is starting up.

Chris

IMO you would be much better off with a c5 corvette.

Yeah $15K is a LOT of money to throw into a Fiero, especially one that will be nowhere near worth that even by the time you're done. While you do have an '88 which in itself is fairly desirable over other models, it is a four cylinder car at it's heart and will always be identification-wise. It didn't start life as an '88 GT.

A complete refresh of the suspension does wonders, more so than most people may think. Remember your Fiero is now 24 years old. Rubber components know no age.

The same ideology goes with brakes. Most of Fiero owner's complaints with brakes is due to the brakes simply not working to their full capacity. The stock system does a really good job - when it's working correctly. You're actually ahead of the game because the '88 brake system has a vented setup, which is a good improvement over brakes from the '84-'87 Fiero models.

Most 16"-17" wheel sizes will fit most all brake systems currently placed onto Fieros. The topic of wheels has been beaten like a dead horse here on PFF.

I agree with the above that a good starting point may be to pick up a project that already has some sort of work done to it. Many Fiero owners are typically trying to offload good driveable projects for various reasons. And you'll likely pay nowhere near $15K (probably not even half that honestly).

I'd suggest Dean. Whodeanie here in the forums, but like others have already stated, thats alot of coin to throw into an old Fiero. I'd guess that the 15konly wont even come close to getting that all done either. Paint and the engine swap alone will blow that budget if you get it done properly. I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, just being realistic. Mods are expensive!

V8 Archie. My IMSA coupe was a four cylinder before the ZZ4 build. Now Archie does LS swaps.

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: V8 Archie. My IMSA coupe was a four cylinder before the ZZ4 build. Now Archie does LS swaps.

He only wants to spend $15K, and is looking to do a color change, ($3-4K), bigger brakes ($1-3K), Better suspension ($500-1K) Body work before the paint, (hood, GT effects - $500), Rims/Tires ($1-2K) so that will leave about enough for a SC3800 swap. No way he can afford a LS swap. The motor alone is $6500. The kit about the same. He's spend it all for the motor/trans and kit.

Rob

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: No its not. Its easy to spend $15K, heck, its easy to spend $30K on a Fiero. Paint, engine swap, brakes, suspension, interior, stereo, rims/tires..... Trust me, you can spend a lot of money on one. Now, the "worth" of it, well, worth is up to the owner, can you sell it for what you have in it, no, but is it "worth" it, yes. To me it is. Rob

That comment is making me reconsider selling mine....

Take half of the 15K u mentioned spending and buy a car that is already swapped and ready to go..There are several nicely swapped 3800s out there that can be had for 5k or more. If you wanna go with a little slower swapped car then Archies LS1 swapped Formula is up for sale here in Tx but that will take all of your 15K.


I myself cant even imagine dumping anywhere near 15K or more into a Fiero cause at the end of the day the
title still says Fiero.

Phone did a repost.....

[This message has been edited by Kilofox13 (edited 02-19-2012).]

Mstangs is dead on. I could have bought AkursedX's car for less than half of what I'm spending on mine, and the funny thing is mine is being built to be similar to his (with a few differences). I probably wouldn't even get half of what i have in this car back if i ever had to sell, and that is just from this round. Find a decent swapped car for a starting platform, make sure it was done right, and make the modifications you want. You could even sell yours and put the cash towards it. Good luck man.

I appreciate all the advise, and will at least look into other cars. However, that will also delay everything; I won't be able to even start until I return.

The other stickler is not only the 88 MY Fiero, its my first car as well. A lot of work and sweat has already been put into it as I was growing up. I still want to find out estimates, etc, for what is possible with my estimated budget.

As several have noted, body mods and paint and such are pluses, but not the requirements. That's my endstate goal, but I'm still curious as to what I can accomplish. Maybe I should just email Archie (and maybe West Coast Fieros) directly. And no, I won't get a C5 Corvette. If I wanted a corvette, I'd get one. I like Fieros. Anybody can have a fast Corvette.

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Happiness is not around the corner. It is the corner.

An onramp is a terrible thing to waste.

"The greatest risk is not taking one" -AIG Commercial

I just wanna say I love your screen name. Command & Conquer ftw. Good luck!

Thanks, lol. Been playing C&C since Red Alert first came out.

Anyway, I've also been suggested another option (by my wife): Take a month off after my deployment (I think I get around 90days, maybe), spend that month at my parents (where the Fiero is) and do the build myself. My dad has most of the tools required anyway (including lift); it would save me tons on labor. And I might just go for an easier swap, such as the 90 degree (I think its 90?....or 60...) 3.4 conversion. Keep it looking like a Formula, just paint it if I can afford it after I get the internals done. I could keep my Duke, but that would require a complete rebuild of an already anemic engine.

Plus, I would have done all the work.

I am on the NE side of Independence you really need to come by and see and hear some of the possibilities with the car and help make your decision on which engine from there.

I sent you a PM with phone number and such feel free to call any time.

Chris

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I myself cant even imagine dumping anywhere near 15K or more into a Fiero cause at the end of the day the title still says Fiero.

Years ago I had a great idea for a bumper sticker. "Fiero's, either you get them, or you don't"

You must be in the "Don't" camp. Sell your Fiero stuff, and go buy a Camaro. No one spends a dime on a Fiero for any other reason than because they love the cars. If your worried about money = Fiero then your doing it wrong. You have a valid point about buying someone else's car, most of us have twice in them then what we can sell them for. My only point was that having a $15K budget for what he wants to do is not all that much, and that doing the SC3800 swap, rims, brakes, suspension and paint may be done for that money. He'd end up with a nice car, that he designed and can talk about each part of it, and not say "I don't know, I bought it this way".

Rob

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: Years ago I had a great idea for a bumper sticker. "Fiero's, either you get them, or you don't" You must be in the "Don't" camp. Sell your Fiero stuff, and go buy a Camaro. No one spends a dime on a Fiero for any other reason than because they love the cars. If your worried about money = Fiero then your doing it wrong. You have a valid point about buying someone else's car, most of us have twice in them then what we can sell them for. My only point was that having a $15K budget for what he wants to do is not all that much, and that doing the SC3800 swap, rims, brakes, suspension and paint may be done for that money He'd end up with a nice car, that he designed and can talk about each part of it, and not say "I don't know, I bought it this way". Rob

LOL....I have bought/sold,worked on,put back on the road and logged more miles in a Fiero then you will ever dream of. The only thing I see that relates to "dont" in ur reply is "U dont have a clue about me". But then again that doesnt suprise me......

Lets not make this into a flame war, guys.... I'm just fielding my options.

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Happiness is not around the corner. It is the corner.

An onramp is a terrible thing to waste.

"The greatest risk is not taking one" -AIG Commercial

Speaking of doing things myself, has anybody done a 3.6 VVT/6spd Auto conversion?

quote Originally posted by brotherhood_of_nod: Speaking of doing things myself, has anybody done a 3.6 VVT/6spd Auto conversion?

Been some talk here but none have been done that I am aware of.

HI all

I LUV your first quote!!! Always felt that way, cooh!! Your last quote, informative for sure!! You've been here awhile but never have talked to you before AFAIK, so welcome!! Hope these ruffians are helping...

Thanx all,

Ear-ick...

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Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines....
Enzo Ferrari...

Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen.... An advancement, of other
voices I came across.

S.F??, hint, it's a car manufacturer....

Do not walk infront of me, I may not follow. Do not walk behind me, I may not lead. Walk beside me and be my friend forever.
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Life's best tour guides? Contrast and mixture. One sets things apart yet cohesively, the other seperates associatingly.

quote Originally posted by brotherhood_of_nod: Speaking of doing things myself, has anybody done a 3.6 VVT/6spd Auto conversion?

you have limited time and resources.. just do a 3800sc swap and call it a day... its the easiest of all swaps (even that 3.4 swap would be a pain). It will make the most power and have the least headaches on install.

That being said, buy a vette, rx8, s2000... something that is actually worth the money you will be putting into it if you do decide to eventually not do the work yourself.

we could do it for you no prob.
D.

Had a brief exchange of emails with Archie; even he advised to do it myself. I've heard that going from auto to manual is not worth the effort; is that true? I've got a 4 speed in an 87 sitting next to my 88.

Is there anyone in Northeast Ohio that'd be willing to work on my Fiero? Willing to discuss budget, goals, etc. May turn out to be different than the above goals, lol.

I'd send it to one of the guru's be it BMW or Fiero. Also, take your budget and double it, then take the time-frame and quadruple it. You should be close there. You want guru's not "smoke and mirrors".

Be safe out there.

I'm in warren,oh. I have done several swaps. Matter of fact I may be interested in selling one of mine. I have one that has all aftermarket suspension, wilwood brakes, koni struts, tubular a arms, series III 3800 swap and much more. Needs a nice paint job but everything else is done. PM me n we can discuss all options. Chris.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I'd send it to one of the guru's be it BMW or Fiero. Also, take your budget and double it, then take the time-frame and quadruple it. You should be close there. You want guru's not "smoke and mirrors". Be safe out there.

careful with "bmw guru" see "project Midturbo"

quote Originally posted by ericjon262: careful with "bmw guru" see "project Midturbo"

Michelles turbo 3800 was a much bigger disaster... no to mention the blown motor in Charlie's car..

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Michelles turbo 3800 was a much bigger disaster... no to mention the blown motor in Charlie's car..

First off little man, Charlie was warned about his transmission and motor. He was not upset when it came apart and from what I understand, he is extremely happy with the final result. When you add twice the power to an engine that was beaten up...**** happens.

Michael's car is not a disaster except that you think he needs a bigger turbo so that he can look like as big of an idiot as you in the youtube video of you trying to get your car to launch....20 seconds to get your turbo to spool. That tells me that you have no clue how to build a car. I'm sure that it is fast, but here in Jersey you would be laughed off the track. Maybe we race differently, but NO ONE thinks a rolling race is cool around here.

and my last point is I am no longer taking in swaps for the price I was charging. I make more money working on BMW's, Porsche's and Audi's. I was charging $50 per hour on the Fieros and $100-$150 per hour on the German cars.
I really don't plan on doing any more Fiero swaps for customers....I'm going to get back to what I love to do and leave it there. I'm building my Saab 2.8t and enjoying driving my other cars.

As for you dark helmet, You come at Michael and me in every thread. I'm sure a lot of people are fed up with it. I'm done. If you keep it up, I will make it a point to come shut your little mouth up. Hopefully there are some good beer and burger joints in your neck of the woods.

Dave

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Michelles turbo 3800 was a much bigger disaster...

My car was a disaster long before Dave got it

In all seriousness, to the OP, I'd find somewhere that is experienced and can focus on your car instead of several people's cars at once. Since Dave doesn't really want to take on more of these right now, Ryan (Darth FIero) has over a year wait, and Dean has more on his plate than he's been able to handle for now, I'd say contact Jason (Fierofreak00) or Stephen (MstangsBware) for the engine work. I'm sure there are others and I don't mean to offend anyone by leaving them out.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I'd send it to one of the guru's be it BMW or Fiero. Also, take your budget and double it, then take the time-frame and quadruple it. You should be close there. You want guru's not "smoke and mirrors". Be safe out there.

Thanks for the recommendation, but just for the record, I am not taking any swap work at the moment. My primary focus these days is finishing the LS4/F40 development and getting my personal Fiero ready for the 30th.

quote Originally posted by ericjon262: careful with "bmw guru" see "project Midturbo"

I am aware of the build. However, at least BMWguru stood up and took responsibility for it (and again in this thread). Anyone can do a great job all the time, its how they react when things go wrong that matters. There are very few shops I would trust to work on my cars. I wouldn't think twice about sending my '88 to either of the guru's. From all I have read, they accept responsibility for their actions and don't ignore their customers. Unlike the other "shop" in this thread.

That's why I'm putting out feelers right now. I live in KC, and I am deployed in Kuwait - the car itself resides in Northeast Ohio and doesn't run. Normally, my dad (and I) would work on it ourselves, but he had a stroke last year (fairly minor,) and hasn't regained the dexterity or strength for mechanic work.

I understand the complexity of an engine change, even just a stock engine for another, especially in Fieros. When we had to rebuild the transmission in my 88 back in 2003, it took forever to get simple things done, like separating the engine from the tranny.

At this point, I'd be happy with just a running Fiero.

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Happiness is not around the corner. It is the corner.

An onramp is a terrible thing to waste.

"The greatest risk is not taking one" -AIG Commercial

Well there's always FieroX's shop in KS. Don't know how busy he is but you could ask him.