i am quite interested in that intake, and i will watch it's development closely.
i would also like a quote fore one of those one piece lolipop-on-a-stick automatic push down to shift shifter thingies. i would want the bottom of the ball to stick say 1" above the console. that make sence?
------------------ Currently a student at Wyotech in Sacramento. 1987 Pontiac Fiero GT, 148,000 miles!decklid window, silver guages. rear ended someone, and now the rebuilding starts! More pics of my 87 GT can be found here 1985 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 auto, 222K miles and counting <-my first car, and i still cant get rid of her! 2002 Toyota Celica GT, 5-speed, 47K miles <-FOR SALE! A 4 year olds knowledge of science: No matter how much jello you put into a swimming pool you still can't walk on water.
IP: Logged
10:44 PM
Jul 16th, 2007
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
i am quite interested in that intake, and i will watch it's development closely.
i would also like a quote fore one of those one piece lolipop-on-a-stick automatic push down to shift shifter thingies. i would want the bottom of the ball to stick say 1" above the console. that make sence?
What would you want your shifter to be made of (all aluminum, alum shaft/different material ball, etc.)? SInce I don't have a FIero handy, I would need you, or someone, to pull the knob and boot off an auto shifter and take some measurements and pictures. The knobs generally push down about .5-inch (1/2-inch). I would need a measurement of the shifter arm that protrudes through the console in each gear position and pictures of it, from a level side view, in at least three positions (Park, Neutral, 1).
Would you be using a boot and pushing it down, or some type of gate plate. I am assuming you have a factory console.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
IP: Logged
12:19 AM
tednelson83 Member
Posts: 1993 From: Santa Clarita, California, USA Registered: Jul 2002
What would you want your shifter to be made of (all aluminum, alum shaft/different material ball, etc.)? SInce I don't have a FIero handy, I would need you, or someone, to pull the knob and boot off an auto shifter and take some measurements and pictures. The knobs generally push down about .5-inch (1/2-inch). I would need a measurement of the shifter arm that protrudes through the console in each gear position and pictures of it, from a level side view, in at least three positions (Park, Neutral, 1).
Would you be using a boot and pushing it down, or some type of gate plate. I am assuming you have a factory console.
all aluminum please. i probably will be using the stock boot on the factory console. i will try to get pics as soon as i can. i would be inclined to shorten the stock arm if need be, that would be easy and i have contemplated it many times.
IP: Logged
01:30 AM
OH10fiero Member
Posts: 1541 From: struther OH Registered: Jun 2002
How about a upper and lower intake that will allow the use of the aluminum 3.4 heads? I have everything you will need to get the job done, just need to know if there is enough interest in it to do something like that form the others here as well. Any takers? I live close enought to Todd that we can do this. Hey Todd! whens the next time your going to be at Chilies or A&W? we need to get together and talk sometime and get caught up on life and such, also have lots of ideas that you are more than welcome to market, and I have all the raw meterials to get started.
IP: Logged
12:11 PM
merlot566jka Member
Posts: 676 From: Norman, Oklahoma Registered: Jun 2007
on the intake, youve stolen my thoughts. lol. ive been devoloping a dual plenum intake for the past few months. i have some critical data that can be used during the fabrication. ive calculated the ideal runner dia, runner taper, runner length plenum volume, intake ram pipe, throttle body dia, iac and map solutions and even can have the calculations to tune the length based on the cam used in the engine. right now everything i have on hand is for iron heads and the 272 cam. but changes in length are the only thing required in changing the cam. please pm me and ill spit out the data.
IP: Logged
05:15 PM
merlot566jka Member
Posts: 676 From: Norman, Oklahoma Registered: Jun 2007
to use the gen3 heads you need to change pistons or remove material in the combustion chamber...or run race gas. you also have to measure for new pushrods. not to mention all the other things that will have to change, like dis, coolant routing, ecm, throttle body, linkage and on and on it goes. ive looked heavily into this and have half of the parts to do the swap. but with a preggo wife i need to save my fundage and will try the swap at a later time. just a lil fyi on that, its more than intake manifolds
IP: Logged
05:20 PM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Originally posted by OH10fiero: How about a upper and lower intake that will allow the use of the aluminum 3.4 heads? I have everything you will need to get the job done, just need to know if there is enough interest in it to do something like that form the others here as well. Any takers? I live close enought to Todd that we can do this...
The goal is really to simplify this as much as possible. Using the stock lower with a custom dual plenum is the best compromise for a very small market specialty product.
That being said, I just finished reading the other thread and I have better ideas about how to approach this. I will be working on the models this week. I have an idea for a bolt on dual TB kit, but we'll see how well that little birdie flies out of the nest (my imagination)
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero: ...Hey Todd! whens the next time your going to be at Chilies or A&W? we need to get together and talk sometime and get caught up on life and such, also have lots of ideas that you are more than welcome to market, and I have all the raw meterials to get started.
I haven't been there since early last year. I just got bored with it. I didn't even go after the Nats. I think next year I am going to just focus on a few bigger events like Detroit Autorama, Goodguys-Columbus, etc.; and a couple local ones like the Ox Roast.
More ideas I have too many now! I need some dineros to make some of 'em happen. Now if you have some ideas on where to get some of that, I'm all ears... J/K, we'll have to get together and burn a few hours.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
IP: Logged
05:41 PM
Jul 19th, 2007
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
I would really like to have a nice polished aluminum cover to dress-up the MAP sensor.
Just a shallow, open bottom, aluminum "box" with 2 holes that match up to the existing screws for the MAP sensor so it could be installed with minimal effort.
It would really help the looks of the engine compartment and should be a fairly inexpensive piece.
IP: Logged
04:31 PM
BobadooFunk Member
Posts: 5436 From: Pittsburgh PA Registered: Jun 2003
I would really like to have a nice polished aluminum cover to dress-up the MAP sensor.
Just a shallow, open bottom, aluminum "box" with 2 holes that match up to the existing screws for the MAP sensor so it could be installed with minimal effort.
It would really help the looks of the engine compartment and should be a fairly inexpensive piece.
Not a problem. I need either really precise measurements or a spare MAP sensor to make sure it fits.
You guys tell me how much you want to pay for them (reasonable price ) and I figure out if I can accomodate. If so, I'll make some and have them ready when you need them. I have some ideas for something really nice, but first I need to know what it's worth to you...
I'll check to see I have a motor here that uses the same part number MAP sensor. If I do, I might make one before the weekend.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
Not a problem. I need either really precise measurements or a spare MAP sensor to make sure it fits.
You guys tell me how much you want to pay for them (reasonable price ) and I figure out if I can accomodate. If so, I'll make some and have them ready when you need them. I have some ideas for something really nice, but first I need to know what it's worth to you...
I'll check to see I have a motor here that uses the same part number MAP sensor. If I do, I might make one before the weekend.
I can only speak for myself, but somewhere in the $25-$30 range for a professional looking polished part would get my order immediately.This doesn't need to be a "heavy duty" part, it's an appearance item afterall. Seems like it could be cut out and bent up from light gage material. Might not even need the corners welded if it folds up nice and straight. I looked for some drawn aluminum electronics "project boxes" at Radio Shack that I could modify, but haven't found anything yet. A google search for some inexpensive small aluminum box enclosures might yield something that could serve as the starting point. I think that a fully machined billet aluminum part might be "overkill" for this. At the right price for a nice looking little part like this you would almost certainly catch a lot of Fiero owners attention.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-19-2007).]
OK... Sketch revised..AGAIN The slots need to be on both sides, so that you can simply loosen the MAP sensor screws and slip the cover over the sensor, (one side between the sensor and the bracket), and then just retighten the screws. Installation time would be probably 20 seconds or less
IP: Logged
06:25 PM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Be careful with considering a cast part. The wall thickness that goes between the sensor and the bracket probably cannot be more than about 1/16th inch. It has to be thin enough that you don't have to get longer screws to mount the cover.
That wouldn't bother me much, as I modified the MAP sensor bracket when I removed the throttle body coolant lines and I tapped the MAP sensor screw holes out to 10-32 and replaced the old sheet metal screws with something a little better looking... I can always use longer 10-32 screws if needed.
Nevermind the broken clip on the plug to the sensor, I have a replacement plug on the shelf that I need to install
IP: Logged
07:02 PM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
I have this idea for bolt-on Fiero dual plenum intakes, so I started with a rough draft model of my idea to see if you guys are interested. I didn't do all the mounting bolts because I was just trying to communicate the idea. The plenum is three pieces, body, end cap, and flange, TIG'd together. The sleeves would be welded to the base plate and then the plenum welded to the base plate. Finally, the sleeve would be TIG'd to the plenum where they protrude through.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-20-2007).]
IP: Logged
07:32 PM
Jul 24th, 2007
topher_time Member
Posts: 3231 From: Bailey's Harbor, for now. Registered: Sep 2005
Intake looks good and I'm still thinking on a fair price we all need to make money. Materials shouldn't be more than a few hundred but it's the time it takes to build them. My only concern is the height, there isn't much room to work with under the decklid, I'll try to get a height measurement shortly. Thanks for posting and keep it up!
[This message has been edited by topher_time (edited 07-24-2007).]
IP: Logged
09:14 PM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Glad you like it, hope everyone else does too. As for the price, I am going to do a cost analysis on the materials and labor for that idea soon. I don't have to make a fortune on them, and for the first few I am willing to make peanuts (relatively speaking) to see how they go. As long as I am not losing money on them I am not worried about it.
For the height, some height adjustment can be made in how low the plenum is positioned on the base plate. Of course some volume is lost the further it protrudes into the plenum, but sometimes compromises have to be made.
Another design benefit is I can offer a few versions of these intakes.
* The lowest cost option would be a kit that must be welded together, for those with the ability to TIG, MIG, or gas weld aluminum (or a buddy who can do it for them). * Middle ground would be the intakes welded up with the base plate looking just like the model --- profile-cut (square edges) ports on the base plate. * The best version would have fully radiused, by CNC mill, ports to smooth the transition of the air in the plenum entering the ports; and maybe a couple other internal improvements to increase the efficiency of the intakes.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-24-2007).]
IP: Logged
10:13 PM
PFF
System Bot
Mr.PBody Member
Posts: 3172 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Registered: Oct 2006
Glad you like it, hope everyone else does too. As for the price, I am going to do a cost analysis on the materials and labor for that idea soon. I don't have to make a fortune on them, and for the first few I am willing to make peanuts (relatively speaking) to see how they go. As long as I am not losing money on them I am not worried about it.
For the height, some height adjustment can be made in how low the plenum is positioned on the base plate. Of course some volume is lost the further it protrudes into the plenum, but sometimes compromises have to be made.
Another design benefit is I can offer a few versions of these intakes.
* The lowest cost option would be a kit that must be welded together, for those with the ability to TIG, MIG, or gas weld aluminum (or a buddy who can do it for them). * Middle ground would be the intakes welded up with the base plate looking just like the model --- profile-cut (square edges) ports on the base plate. * The best version would have fully radiused, by CNC mill, ports to smooth the transition of the air in the plenum entering the ports; and maybe a couple other internal improvements to increase the efficiency of the intakes.
I'd go for the best version available. Definately gonna get one, with the height adjustment, you've thought of everything. I can't weld for, well, the french term of fecal droppings; so I'll let you do all the hard work Also, not really concerned about losing a little intake volume, as I plan on turboing the car.
[This message has been edited by topher_time (edited 07-25-2007).]
IP: Logged
12:17 AM
topher_time Member
Posts: 3231 From: Bailey's Harbor, for now. Registered: Sep 2005
Originally posted by topher_time: ...there isn't much room to work with under the decklid, I'll try to get a height measurement shortly...
If someone has the time and a couple extra bucks, the best way to get an accurate clearance measurement is to position a rigid three-inch tall object (long enough to simulate the intake) securely on the middle intake, and then run a strip of cheap modeling clay across the top (centered lengthwise), at least an inch high. A sheet or two of plastic wrap over the clay and close and latch the deck lid. If all goes well, when you open the deck lid the clay will be compressed in the areas where clearance is an issue - if there are any. If so you can poke something through the clay until it touches the tubing, mark it, remove it and record the measurement. We're looking for the smallest amount of clearance.
If that doesn't make sense I'll try again...
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
Originally posted by randye: Any progress on that MAP sensor cover yet?
Yeah, sorry I forgot to post. I did make one and had some equipment malfunctions that destroyed it. I might post pics of the damage later
This week is going to be slow because my brother died unexpectedly yesterday from an asthma attack. I am still working though because I love my work and it relaxes me - just on a really light schedule.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-25-2007).]
IP: Logged
10:47 AM
topher_time Member
Posts: 3231 From: Bailey's Harbor, for now. Registered: Sep 2005
If someone has the time and a couple extra bucks, the best way to get an accurate clearance measurement is to position a rigid three-inch tall object (long enough to simulate the intake) securely on the middle intake, and then run a strip of cheap modeling clay across the top (centered lengthwise), at least an inch high. A sheet or two of plastic wrap over the clay and close and latch the deck lid. If all goes well, when you open the deck lid the clay will be compressed in the areas where clearance is an issue - if there are any. If so you can poke something through the clay until it touches the tubing, mark it, remove it and record the measurement. We're looking for the smallest amount of clearance.
If that doesn't make sense I'll try again...
It's just shy of 4 inches, well my guestimate. I had to put the upper intake back- people at work got upset and I had to move it to another parking spot- it's too spots over. Whatever. But I layed a 2x4 on top of the intake and had about a half inch of clearnace (calibrated finger test) So the upper intake at it's maximum thinckness is a little over 2 inches I think, the 2x4 is actually about 1.75 inches and about an extra half inch on top of that. Need just a bit of room for engine rock during acceleration to avoid hitting the decklid, so i'd say maximum installed height would be 3.5 inches, possibly 4 inches. Sorry I couldn't be more specific, I'll get a more accurate measurement this weekend.
Sure can. They would probably be relatively expensive though. There's a significant amount of CAD work to model an accurate part, that would be whittled from a fairly expensive chunk of aircraft-grade alloy, through a multi-phase CNC process (more expensive due to more setup time being required).
I was going to suggest Street Dreams knuckles and hubs, as they already have all the development work done, but the link to their webpage is not valid anymore!?!
Another more cost feasible option is I can turn a pair of stock rotors down into hubs. You would still need hub center adapters but they would be fairly simple to make.
If you don't mind the cost and want the custom setup, I am ready when you are I am not trying to discourage you from spending whatever you can afford, or to convince you to do it a certain way. It's just natural to assume that cost is a factor with a relatively low-cost car as the base.
Would something like this http://www.fortunecity.com/.../switch/67/id216.htm be easier? Could the original "parted" rotor be machined to use the corvair bearings/races (is there enough meat in the bearing support area, maybe it would become too thin)? Do you think the corvair hub could be re-drilled for the 5 X 100 bolt pattern? How much for just the concentric seal rings he pictures?
Woulds it be cheaper to machine new hubs from steel (rather than aircraft-aluminum) that could use these larger bearings? I am just trying to find an alternative for larger front bearings than resorting to $700.00 spindle/hub assemblies. Thanks Bob
Originally posted by rjblaze: ...Would something like this be easier?...
Just wanted to let you know I see your post and will get back to you on that next week. I have the funeral service tomorrow, and a couple days to rest, then I should be able to wrap my head around the info you provided and see what can be done.
Chris - I hope to also get cooking on that 3800 intake next week too, thanks for the measurements.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 07-28-2007).]
IP: Logged
12:39 AM
Aug 3rd, 2007
Mr.PBody Member
Posts: 3172 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Registered: Oct 2006
[B]Originally posted by chrisgtp:[/B HE HE THAT LAST PIC WAS A MISTAKE. I TOOK ALL THE PICS IN LOW QUILTY FORMAT AND SHE DID ONE FOR A MAKEOVER WEB SITE. IT JUST GOT MIXED IN .
I am intrigued...
IP: Logged
12:56 PM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Guys, I apologize for the delay. This is not meant to be a sob story, just letting you guys know what's going on with me. In the last nine years I have lost my entire immediate family - mom in 98, brother in 03, dad last year, and brother July 24th. I normally handle this type of stuff pretty well, and am able to maintain my focus and keep working at my normal pace. I guess the accumulative effect of it all is taking its toll because I am having trouble getting anything done right now.
As I said, that was not meant to be a sob story, and I will definitely be okay. I just need a little time to get my head together. When I do, the custom parts are on like Donkey Kong
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 08-03-2007).]
IP: Logged
01:36 PM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Guys, I apologize for the delay. This is not meant to be a sob story, just letting you guys know what's going on with me. In the last nine years I have lost my entire immediate family - mom in 98, brother in 03, dad last year, and brother July 24th. I normally handle this type of stuff pretty well, and am able to maintain my focus and keep working at my normal pace. I guess the accumulative effect of it all is taking its toll because I am having trouble getting anything done right now.
As I said, that was not meant to be a sob story, and I will definitely be okay. I just need a little time to get my head together. When I do, the custom parts are on like Donkey Kong
Two thoughts come immediately to mind.
1. You are only ever as alone as you choose to be. (hope that makes some sense to you)
2. You need time to greive properly and in your own way, Don't punish yourself though. It's pointless.
I'm content to wait as long as it takes for that MAP sensor cover
IP: Logged
06:16 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41218 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Guys, I apologize for the delay. This is not meant to be a sob story, just letting you guys know what's going on with me. In the last nine years I have lost my entire immediate family - mom in 98, brother in 03, dad last year, and brother July 24th. I normally handle this type of stuff pretty well, and am able to maintain my focus and keep working at my normal pace. I guess the accumulative effect of it all is taking its toll because I am having trouble getting anything done right now.
As I said, that was not meant to be a sob story, and I will definitely be okay. I just need a little time to get my head together. When I do, the custom parts are on like Donkey Kong
Wow. Been a while since I looked in on this thread. (I don't think I've ever posted, but I've been looking.) And to find this. My condolences to you. It's gotta be rough. Take care of yourself. Look out for # 1. Seriously.
To the topic at hand... I am also probably interested in the dual tube intake. Probably the finished and radiused piece, depending on price.
One observation/question, though. Think it might be worthwhile to drill out the holes in the middle intake, and drill and tap holes in the bottom flange of the tube where it bolts to the middle intake? Bolts would go in from the bottom and thread up into those flanges. This would eliminate a bit of restriction from the sleeve that is now in the middle of the tube. (Of course it may not cause enough of a restriction to be an issue.) I'm not really sure of the logistics, since I haven't had a stock manifold on my car in several years. (Have a Trueleo, now.) You might have to assemble the tubes to the middle intake before bolting it all to the lower.
O/T just a bit... Does anyone know if different throttle cams are available for our throttle bodies? I'm guessing that it would have a hair-trigger response that might be a bit disconcerting. "Guessing" being the operative word here.
On to another idea. Do you think it would be worthwhile to make a complete aftermarket 88 cradle that is adaptable to various swaps? I'm thinking of the Northstar, in particular. Since it appears that a solution has been discovered for the electronics (in the form of the 7730, I believe) the cradle mods are the next "ugliest" requirement. As mentioned earlier, there are many of us that can't weld/fabricate for squat (or "at all", in my case) but are not too intimidated by wiring.
While you're at, you could also offer modified suspension pick up points, different engine/tranny mounting brackets/shelves/platforms, etc. (I don't really care about different suspension points, personally, but I've heard others suggest it.) I suggested the 88 cradle, since it's a fairly common swap into earlier cars. Also, the stocker is not known for its sturdiness. Just an idea. What would something like that go for?
Thanks!
------------------ Raydar 88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red Read Nealz Nuze!Praise the Lowered!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-03-2007).]
IP: Logged
10:50 PM
toddshotrods Member
Posts: 1177 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Aug 2004
Thanks guys your concern and kind words mean a lot.
quote
Originally posted by randye: ...I'm content to wait as long as it takes for that MAP sensor cover
quote
Originally posted by Raydar: ...One observation/question, though. Think it might be worthwhile to drill out the holes in the middle intake, and drill and tap holes in the bottom flange of the tube where it bolts to the middle intake? Bolts would go in from the bottom and thread up into those flanges...
I like the idea because I generally like making things as clean and simple as possible. The big question, that some people with the stock intakes would have to answer, is whether it would be possible to bolt the plenums to the middle intake and then bolt it to the lower intake? Also, the issue of whether people would be comfortable drilling the holes out. The upside is it would also save a good bit of labor in assembling the bolt on plenums = lower price. Something to look into for sure.
quote
Originally posted by Raydar: ...On to another idea. Do you think it would be worthwhile to make a complete aftermarket 88 cradle that is adaptable to various swaps?... What would something like that go for?...
It can be done. Whether or not it's worthwhile depends on demand. It would have to be universal or easily adaptable to different combinations to make it feasible. The development time is the big hurdle. A good 88 cradle would be needed to make the jig, people with the experience and knowledge to determine the additional mounting points, and then beta testers willing and able to work fast and hard for free parts. Chassis parts usually look simple but require a sizeable investment of time to do correctly.
------------------ toddshotrods.com - wanna ride? crazy projects, features, articles, art & more
I'll get an old rusty hack saw and take care of the issue 
I have too many now! 
J/K, we'll have to get together and burn a few hours.
) and I figure out if I can accomodate. If so, I'll make some and have them ready when you need them. I have some ideas for something really nice, but first I need to know what it's worth to you...
and I'm still thinking on a fair price we all need to make money. Materials shouldn't be more than a few hundred but it's the time it takes to build them. My only concern is the height, there isn't much room to work with under the decklid, I'll try to get a height measurement shortly. Thanks for posting and keep it up!
